• Re: Guy de Beauchamp (c.1270-1315) 10th Earl of Warwick.

    From ninimimi3116@21:1/5 to adrianc...@btinternet.com on Thu Feb 24 06:19:33 2022
    On Thursday, June 17, 2021 at 12:51:10 PM UTC-4, adrianc...@btinternet.com wrote:
    In Complete Peerage Vol 12 ii p 371 sub-note (j)
    Doubt is expressed as to whether the first marriage of Guy de Beauchamp to Isabel da. of Gilbert de Clare 6th Earl of Gloucester and Hertford ever took place or otherwise was not consummated, dated in the text of C.P. as taking place before 11 May 1297

    In Registrum Sede Vacante_ (Priory of Worcester Part 1) https://archive.org/details/registerofdioces00worcuoft/page/8/mode/2up paragraph 3 and 4 on page 9 shows that the marriage had taken place sometime before June 1302

    The marriage is reported to be within the third degree of consanguinity and thus presumably was annulled as both parties had subsequent marriages.

    If I have the following correct, the common ancestor is William Marshal 1Er of Pembroke

    (01) Guy de Beauchamp (c.1270-1315) 10Er of Warwick.
    (02) William de Beauchamp (c1240-1298) 9Er of Warwick
    (03) Maud (-1301) d&ch of Sir John Fitzgeoffrey, of Shere
    (04) William de Beauchamp (-1268) of Elmley
    (05) Isabel Mauduit (1214-bfr 1268) sis of Wm Mauduit 8Er Warwick
    (06) John Fitzgeoffrey (-1258) of Shere
    (07) Isabel Bigod
    (08) Walter de Beauchamp (-c1236)
    (09) Joane da of Roger de Mortimer (c1150-1215)
    (10) William Mauduit (1196-1257) of Hanslope etc
    (11) Alice de Newburgh (1196-bfr 1263) sis of the half blood to 4Er Warwick (12) Geoffrey FitzPiers (c1162-1213) Earl of Essex
    (13) Aveline de Clare (-c1220)
    (14) Hugh le Bigod (c1182-1225) 3Er of Norfolk
    (15) Maud Marshal (c1193-1248) da of William Marshal 1Er of Pembroke


    (01) Isabel de Clare (1263-1333)
    (02) Gilbert de Clare (1243-1295) Er of Gloucester & Hertford
    (03) Alice d’Angouleme
    (04) Richard de Clare (1222-1262) Er of Gloucester & Hertford
    (05) Maude de Lacy (-1289)
    (06) Hugh le Brun de Lusignan (c1221-1250)
    (07) Yoland de Bretagne Comtessa de Penthieve (1218-1272)
    (08) Gilbert de Clare (1180-1230) Er of Gloucester & Hertford
    (09) Isabel Marshal (1200-1240) da of William Marshal 1Er of Pembroke
    (10) John de Lacy (1192-1240) Er of Lincoln
    (11) Margaret de Quincy (c.1206-1266)
    (12) Hugues le Brun de Lusignan (c1190-1249)
    (13) Isabella d’Angouleme (c1188-1246)
    (14) Pierre Duc de Bretagne (c1190-1250)
    (15) Alix de Thouars, Duchesse de Bretagne (c1200-1221)

    Adrian
    I would be forever grateful if you or others would show me the line from Geoffrey FitzPiers(1162-1213) to William Marshal, Knight. Also, any other lines from Agnes Harris, Gateway Immigrant, to William Marshal. I have found William Marshal to be an
    ancestor to immigrants Thomas Dudley, Jane Allen, Grace Chetwode, Robert Abell, and Edward Raynsford in my ancestry database for family members. And now I am looking at Agnes Harris. Thank you!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From pj.evans88@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Thu Feb 24 08:29:47 2022
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 6:19:36 AM UTC-8, ninimimi3116 wrote:
    On Thursday, June 17, 2021 at 12:51:10 PM UTC-4, adrianc...@btinternet.com wrote:
    In Complete Peerage Vol 12 ii p 371 sub-note (j)
    Doubt is expressed as to whether the first marriage of Guy de Beauchamp to Isabel da. of Gilbert de Clare 6th Earl of Gloucester and Hertford ever took place or otherwise was not consummated, dated in the text of C.P. as taking place before 11 May
    1297

    In Registrum Sede Vacante_ (Priory of Worcester Part 1) https://archive.org/details/registerofdioces00worcuoft/page/8/mode/2up paragraph 3 and 4 on page 9 shows that the marriage had taken place sometime before June 1302

    The marriage is reported to be within the third degree of consanguinity and thus presumably was annulled as both parties had subsequent marriages.

    If I have the following correct, the common ancestor is William Marshal 1Er of Pembroke

    (01) Guy de Beauchamp (c.1270-1315) 10Er of Warwick.
    (02) William de Beauchamp (c1240-1298) 9Er of Warwick
    (03) Maud (-1301) d&ch of Sir John Fitzgeoffrey, of Shere
    (04) William de Beauchamp (-1268) of Elmley
    (05) Isabel Mauduit (1214-bfr 1268) sis of Wm Mauduit 8Er Warwick
    (06) John Fitzgeoffrey (-1258) of Shere
    (07) Isabel Bigod
    (08) Walter de Beauchamp (-c1236)
    (09) Joane da of Roger de Mortimer (c1150-1215)
    (10) William Mauduit (1196-1257) of Hanslope etc
    (11) Alice de Newburgh (1196-bfr 1263) sis of the half blood to 4Er Warwick
    (12) Geoffrey FitzPiers (c1162-1213) Earl of Essex
    (13) Aveline de Clare (-c1220)
    (14) Hugh le Bigod (c1182-1225) 3Er of Norfolk
    (15) Maud Marshal (c1193-1248) da of William Marshal 1Er of Pembroke


    (01) Isabel de Clare (1263-1333)
    (02) Gilbert de Clare (1243-1295) Er of Gloucester & Hertford
    (03) Alice d’Angouleme
    (04) Richard de Clare (1222-1262) Er of Gloucester & Hertford
    (05) Maude de Lacy (-1289)
    (06) Hugh le Brun de Lusignan (c1221-1250)
    (07) Yoland de Bretagne Comtessa de Penthieve (1218-1272)
    (08) Gilbert de Clare (1180-1230) Er of Gloucester & Hertford
    (09) Isabel Marshal (1200-1240) da of William Marshal 1Er of Pembroke
    (10) John de Lacy (1192-1240) Er of Lincoln
    (11) Margaret de Quincy (c.1206-1266)
    (12) Hugues le Brun de Lusignan (c1190-1249)
    (13) Isabella d’Angouleme (c1188-1246)
    (14) Pierre Duc de Bretagne (c1190-1250)
    (15) Alix de Thouars, Duchesse de Bretagne (c1200-1221)

    Adrian
    I would be forever grateful if you or others would show me the line from Geoffrey FitzPiers(1162-1213) to William Marshal, Knight. Also, any other lines from Agnes Harris, Gateway Immigrant, to William Marshal. I have found William Marshal to be an
    ancestor to immigrants Thomas Dudley, Jane Allen, Grace Chetwode, Robert Abell, and Edward Raynsford in my ancestry database for family members. And now I am looking at Agnes Harris. Thank you!

    Geoffrey fitzPiers is a contemporary of Marshal, not an ancestor. Those are 5-generation pedigrees, so fill in the charts and you can see the relationships..

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ninimimi3116@21:1/5 to pj.ev...@gmail.com on Thu Feb 24 11:07:49 2022
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 11:29:51 AM UTC-5, pj.ev...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 6:19:36 AM UTC-8, ninimimi3116 wrote:
    On Thursday, June 17, 2021 at 12:51:10 PM UTC-4, adrianc...@btinternet.com wrote:
    In Complete Peerage Vol 12 ii p 371 sub-note (j)
    Doubt is expressed as to whether the first marriage of Guy de Beauchamp to Isabel da. of Gilbert de Clare 6th Earl of Gloucester and Hertford ever took place or otherwise was not consummated, dated in the text of C.P. as taking place before 11 May
    1297

    In Registrum Sede Vacante_ (Priory of Worcester Part 1) https://archive.org/details/registerofdioces00worcuoft/page/8/mode/2up paragraph 3 and 4 on page 9 shows that the marriage had taken place sometime before June 1302

    The marriage is reported to be within the third degree of consanguinity and thus presumably was annulled as both parties had subsequent marriages.

    If I have the following correct, the common ancestor is William Marshal 1Er of Pembroke

    (01) Guy de Beauchamp (c.1270-1315) 10Er of Warwick.
    (02) William de Beauchamp (c1240-1298) 9Er of Warwick
    (03) Maud (-1301) d&ch of Sir John Fitzgeoffrey, of Shere
    (04) William de Beauchamp (-1268) of Elmley
    (05) Isabel Mauduit (1214-bfr 1268) sis of Wm Mauduit 8Er Warwick
    (06) John Fitzgeoffrey (-1258) of Shere
    (07) Isabel Bigod
    (08) Walter de Beauchamp (-c1236)
    (09) Joane da of Roger de Mortimer (c1150-1215)
    (10) William Mauduit (1196-1257) of Hanslope etc
    (11) Alice de Newburgh (1196-bfr 1263) sis of the half blood to 4Er Warwick
    (12) Geoffrey FitzPiers (c1162-1213) Earl of Essex
    (13) Aveline de Clare (-c1220)
    (14) Hugh le Bigod (c1182-1225) 3Er of Norfolk
    (15) Maud Marshal (c1193-1248) da of William Marshal 1Er of Pembroke


    (01) Isabel de Clare (1263-1333)
    (02) Gilbert de Clare (1243-1295) Er of Gloucester & Hertford
    (03) Alice d’Angouleme
    (04) Richard de Clare (1222-1262) Er of Gloucester & Hertford
    (05) Maude de Lacy (-1289)
    (06) Hugh le Brun de Lusignan (c1221-1250)
    (07) Yoland de Bretagne Comtessa de Penthieve (1218-1272)
    (08) Gilbert de Clare (1180-1230) Er of Gloucester & Hertford
    (09) Isabel Marshal (1200-1240) da of William Marshal 1Er of Pembroke (10) John de Lacy (1192-1240) Er of Lincoln
    (11) Margaret de Quincy (c.1206-1266)
    (12) Hugues le Brun de Lusignan (c1190-1249)
    (13) Isabella d’Angouleme (c1188-1246)
    (14) Pierre Duc de Bretagne (c1190-1250)
    (15) Alix de Thouars, Duchesse de Bretagne (c1200-1221)

    Adrian
    I would be forever grateful if you or others would show me the line from Geoffrey FitzPiers(1162-1213) to William Marshal, Knight. Also, any other lines from Agnes Harris, Gateway Immigrant, to William Marshal. I have found William Marshal to be an
    ancestor to immigrants Thomas Dudley, Jane Allen, Grace Chetwode, Robert Abell, and Edward Raynsford in my ancestry database for family members. And now I am looking at Agnes Harris. Thank you!
    Geoffrey fitzPiers is a contemporary of Marshal, not an ancestor. Those are 5-generation pedigrees, so fill in the charts and you can see the relationships..
    I see, like Ahnentafel numbers. Thank you, I didn't understand. I was able to join some of the people I already had. I appreciate your information very much.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ninimimi3116@21:1/5 to pj.ev...@gmail.com on Thu Feb 24 13:25:43 2022
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 11:29:51 AM UTC-5, pj.ev...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 6:19:36 AM UTC-8, ninimimi3116 wrote:
    On Thursday, June 17, 2021 at 12:51:10 PM UTC-4, adrianc...@btinternet.com wrote:
    In Complete Peerage Vol 12 ii p 371 sub-note (j)
    Doubt is expressed as to whether the first marriage of Guy de Beauchamp to Isabel da. of Gilbert de Clare 6th Earl of Gloucester and Hertford ever took place or otherwise was not consummated, dated in the text of C.P. as taking place before 11 May
    1297

    In Registrum Sede Vacante_ (Priory of Worcester Part 1) https://archive.org/details/registerofdioces00worcuoft/page/8/mode/2up paragraph 3 and 4 on page 9 shows that the marriage had taken place sometime before June 1302

    The marriage is reported to be within the third degree of consanguinity and thus presumably was annulled as both parties had subsequent marriages.

    If I have the following correct, the common ancestor is William Marshal 1Er of Pembroke

    (01) Guy de Beauchamp (c.1270-1315) 10Er of Warwick.
    (02) William de Beauchamp (c1240-1298) 9Er of Warwick
    (03) Maud (-1301) d&ch of Sir John Fitzgeoffrey, of Shere
    (04) William de Beauchamp (-1268) of Elmley
    (05) Isabel Mauduit (1214-bfr 1268) sis of Wm Mauduit 8Er Warwick
    (06) John Fitzgeoffrey (-1258) of Shere
    (07) Isabel Bigod
    (08) Walter de Beauchamp (-c1236)
    (09) Joane da of Roger de Mortimer (c1150-1215)
    (10) William Mauduit (1196-1257) of Hanslope etc
    (11) Alice de Newburgh (1196-bfr 1263) sis of the half blood to 4Er Warwick
    (12) Geoffrey FitzPiers (c1162-1213) Earl of Essex
    (13) Aveline de Clare (-c1220)
    (14) Hugh le Bigod (c1182-1225) 3Er of Norfolk
    (15) Maud Marshal (c1193-1248) da of William Marshal 1Er of Pembroke


    (01) Isabel de Clare (1263-1333)
    (02) Gilbert de Clare (1243-1295) Er of Gloucester & Hertford
    (03) Alice d’Angouleme
    (04) Richard de Clare (1222-1262) Er of Gloucester & Hertford
    (05) Maude de Lacy (-1289)
    (06) Hugh le Brun de Lusignan (c1221-1250)
    (07) Yoland de Bretagne Comtessa de Penthieve (1218-1272)
    (08) Gilbert de Clare (1180-1230) Er of Gloucester & Hertford
    (09) Isabel Marshal (1200-1240) da of William Marshal 1Er of Pembroke (10) John de Lacy (1192-1240) Er of Lincoln
    (11) Margaret de Quincy (c.1206-1266)
    (12) Hugues le Brun de Lusignan (c1190-1249)
    (13) Isabella d’Angouleme (c1188-1246)
    (14) Pierre Duc de Bretagne (c1190-1250)
    (15) Alix de Thouars, Duchesse de Bretagne (c1200-1221)

    Adrian
    I would be forever grateful if you or others would show me the line from Geoffrey FitzPiers(1162-1213) to William Marshal, Knight. Also, any other lines from Agnes Harris, Gateway Immigrant, to William Marshal. I have found William Marshal to be an
    ancestor to immigrants Thomas Dudley, Jane Allen, Grace Chetwode, Robert Abell, and Edward Raynsford in my ancestry database for family members. And now I am looking at Agnes Harris. Thank you!
    Geoffrey fitzPiers is a contemporary of Marshal, not an ancestor. Those are 5-generation pedigrees, so fill in the charts and you can see the relationships..
    I see now, like ahnentafel numbers. Thank you, I was able to join some of my tree together.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)