I'm known for my asides so
Aubrey has this same family, but omits a generation from what the Vis Kent 1574 states
http://books.google.com/books?id=5KJbAAAAQAAJ&dq=anthony%20sands%20of%20throwley&pg=PA66#v=onepage&q=anthony%20sands%20of%20throwley&f=false
By the way, this family to also ancestral to Princess Diana and to Sarah Ferguson Duchess of York
The earliest visitation pedigree I’ve seen on the family, taken in Berkshire in 1532, about 100 years after Joane’s life, states: ‘Joane vx : Tho : Atrown, Towne, of whom com{es} Somes {Sondes}’ is identified as the daughter of ‘Sr RichardCheney of Sherland Kt 10 yeares old 36 : Edw : 3 [1362-3]’ by ‘Margery da: & coheire of Robert Crall of Crall in Com. Sussex & Margarett his wife da : & h : of Symon Peplasham.’[9]
Thomas atte Towne (Toune, Town, etc.), of Towne Place, Throwley, Kent, . . . .[snip]
He had died by 1427, when Joan Toune widow of Thomas Toune sued Stephen Bouns of Threulegh, husbandman, and John Grymmesham of Faveresham, brewer for debt.[3]
Would you consider the evidence presented in this post sufficient to prove she was the daughter
of Richard Cheyne?
Yes.
Reginald /Sands/ of Throwley, co Kent
by his wife Elizabeth /Watno/
had a son
Anthony /Sands/ of Throwley, co Kent
born by 1515
living in 1543
he married Joanna /Fiennes/
daughter of John /Fiennes/ , Chief Justice of the King's Bench (he born 1435/1439)
I have three children for this last couple although they may have had more Elizabeth /Sands/ bur 1585 "Aged 53" St John's, Clerkenwell m Maurice de /Berkeley/ , Knt
Thomas /Sondes/ of Throwley, co Kent; Knt < 1585; born 1544 eldest son d 1593
On Thursday, January 13, 2022 at 6:43:08 AM UTC-8, Will Johnson wrote:
Yes.
Reginald /Sands/ of Throwley, co Kent
by his wife Elizabeth /Watno/
had a son
Anthony /Sands/ of Throwley, co Kent
born by 1515
living in 1543
he married Joanna /Fiennes/
daughter of John /Fiennes/ , Chief Justice of the King's Bench (he born 1435/1439)
I have three children for this last couple although they may have had more Elizabeth /Sands/ bur 1585 "Aged 53" St John's, Clerkenwell m Maurice de /Berkeley/ , Knt
Thomas /Sondes/ of Throwley, co Kent; Knt < 1585; born 1544 eldest son d 1593
have three children for this last couple although they may have had more
* Elizabeth /Sands/ bur 1585 "Aged 53" St John's, Clerkenwell m Maurice de /Berkeley/ , Knt
* Thomas /Sondes/ of Throwley, co Kent; Knt < 1585; born 1544 eldest son d 1593 m1 Cicely /Tufton/ dead by 1584 m2 Margaret /Brooke/ Nov 1584 daughter of George Brooke, 9th Lord /Cobham/ and Anne /Bray/
* Michael /Sondes/ of Sheldwich -1576-1587-; Knt > 1587; Bnt living in 1587 m Mary /Finch/ Sole heiress of her father George /Finch/ of Norton, co Kent; esq
This last couple descends to Camilla the Duchess of Cornwall
However Thomas Sondes, the eldest son above descends to both Sarah Ferguson and Diana
His wife Margaret Brooke is a Cecil5 and therefore within my radar as well, which is why this cluster is in my database
There is a small correction here in this pedigree.
It states that Elizabeth married Thomas Waller "son and heir" of his father Sir Walter Waller
Sir Thomas was the "second son" and although he obtained Groomsbridge, it was by *purchase* of his father and not because he was the heir
Wikipedia has the erroneous claim that the elder son Sir George Waller died *in* 1622 which is not correct
Genealogics has specific dates for Sir George of 1577-1604 which I think is possibly as well not correct, Leo cites two works which really aren't specific enough to this question to ensure they are accurate
It *is* known that Sir George Waller's son Hardres Waller was born exactly in 1604 and so probably that last should be that Sir George was *living* in 1604 not dead then
BHO does not call as well call Thomas the "heir" of his father, only "the son" when discussing that he obtained this land.
Would you consider the evidence presented in this post sufficient to prove she was the daughterNo. A decent case, but not a proven one, particularly with the only primary source giving the relationship being from the 17th century, and we can't be sure Bannerman's 'correction' doesn't derive from this source, so we really can't be sure.
of Richard Cheyne?
taf
Would you consider the evidence presented in this post sufficient to prove she was the daughterNo. A decent case, but not a proven one, particularly with the only primary source giving the
of Richard Cheyne?
relationship being from the 17th century, and we can't be sure Bannerman's 'correction' doesn't
derive from this source, so we really can't be sure.
Would a dispensation be required for a man to marry his daughter's husband's sister?
Yes.
Reginald /Sands/ of Throwley, co Kent
by his wife Elizabeth /Watno/
had a son
Anthony /Sands/ of Throwley, co Kent
born by 1515
living in 1543
he married Joanna /Fiennes/
daughter of John /Fiennes/ , Chief Justice of the King's Bench (he born 1435/1439)
I have three children for this last couple although they may have had more Elizabeth /Sands/ bur 1585 "Aged 53" St John's, Clerkenwell m Maurice de /Berkeley/ , Knt
Thomas /Sondes/ of Throwley, co Kent; Knt < 1585; born 1544 eldest son d 1593
It seems to me that this is apropos of a marriage settlement
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/d664eeec-7385-4cf5-b5af-d45deb438133
Note that Burke's (cited above) has Mary Hardres second husband as a William Ashenden
It is also curious that other than Anthony Sandes, here reciting in say 1594 ? thatWhat exactly IS your source for this supposed marriage of Thomas Waller of Groombridge and whoever this Elizabeth was? FWIW Thomas Waller's bio in HOP 1604-1629 says that he married ONLY Margaret Lennard.
Thomas /Waller/ of Groomsbridge, Kent -1601-; lieutenant of Dover Castle; Knt; MP Dover
married Elizabeth
no one else seems to have this marriage
instead only citing his marriage to Margaret /Lennard/ bap 28 Sep 1578 Sevenoaks, co Kent
for example note Genealogics does not have this first? or second? marriage for Thomas
I'm known for my asides soAubrey is wrong - and two other Kent sources match what the 1574 Kent visitation says.
Aubrey has this same family, but omits a generation from what the Vis Kent 1574 states
http://books.google.com/books?id=5KJbAAAAQAAJ&dq=anthony%20sands%20of%20throwley&pg=PA66#v=onepage&q=anthony%20sands%20of%20throwley&f=false
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