On Tuesday, November 28, 2006 at 1:06:19 PM UTC-5, Matthew Connolly wrote:

Some more clues have turned up to help sort out this particular line:
I wrote:

The biographies in HoP Commons 1386-1421 for John Merbury and others
give the following Pembridge information:

1. Sir John Pembridge of Pembridge=Elizabeth, had:

2. Alice, daughter and heiress, d.1415=(1) Edmund de la Bere, (2)
Thomas Oldcastle of Eyton MP d.1398/9, (3) John Merbury of Weobley MP d.1438 (as his first wife). Alice had issue:

3a. Richard Oldcastle dsp 1421
3b. Wintelan (Gwenllian, aka Joan) Oldcastle b.1392= Sir Robert Whitney of Whitney MP (d.1443), with issue.
3c. Isabel= Walter Hackluyt, with issue.
3d. Elizabeth Merbury, d&h of John,=Sir Walter Devereux of Bodenham (1411-1459), with issue.

There's a useful document on Chris Phillips' site at www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/fines/abstracts/CP_25_1_83_49.shtml#28
dated 1385, which involves Thomas Oldcastle and Alice his wife and mentions "Elizabeth who was the wife of John Penbrugge kt" holding
lands for life. This tells us that John was dead by then and confirms
his wife's name as Elizabeth; also that Alice was on her second
marriage by that date. The places mentioned are the manors of "Boghrade and Treweryn" and lands in "Eton', Boghrade and Borghulle".

There's another document from later in 1385 in the Patent Rolls, RIII
vol 3 p.52, a pardon that again mentions "Thomas Oldecastell and Alice,
his wife", "the manor of Boghrad and Treweryn" and lands in "Eton
Boghrad, held in chief, whereof Elizabeth late the wife of John de
Penbrugge, knight, was tenant for life, and which was part of the
inheritance of the said Alice".

This ties in neatly with something in the National Archives (C143/315/17):
"John son of Edward de Penebrugge to settle the manors of Bouthrede and Eaton [in Leominster] on himself, Elzabeth his wife and his heirs, retaining the manor of Burghill. Hereford. 28 EIII" (1354-5). The continuity of place and wife suggest this is the same John as above, so he is son of an Edward.

Again supported by the Patent Rolls: (EIII 10 p.344) Feb 1 1356:
"Licence, for 100s. to be paid to the king by John son of Edward de Penebrugge, for him to enfeoff Robert Whiteney and Thomas de Hampton of
the manors of Bouthrede and Eton, co. Hereford, held of the king in
chief, and for them to grant the same to him and Elizabeth, his wife,
and his heirs."

A grant by "Elizabeth, wife of Sir Jno. Penebrugge, to William ap
Richard and John ap Richard of lands &c. in Gweligwimiethe, 26 EIII
(1352)" appears in 'Bibliotheca Phillippica' (1903) p151 no.1187 (On
Google Books). [If Elizabeth was of Welsh extraction it might explain
her grandaughter being named Wenllian.]

"Edward de Penbrigg" had a grant from Edward III for a market and fair
at Boughrood, 5 Oct 1335 (see www.history.ac.uk/cmh/gaz/wales.html#Bou )

An "Edward de Penebrugge" seems to have held land in
Westbury-on-Severn, Glos. in 1349 at the death of Nicholas de Gamage
(see www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=15766 ).

Thinking about the chronology, I now suspect that the Edward above
would be of a younger generation than the one below.

Indeed he was, as the one below was dsp in 1306.

There is an earlier record of Edward de P with a brother called John
(NA, C/143/36/7): John de Penebrugge to grant a rent in Meon, which he holds of the king in chief, to Edward his brother, retaining rent
there. Glouc. 29EI (1300-1).

This Edward had an IPM in 1306, when it was stated that he "died
without heirs of his body, whereof the said rent [in Meon] ought to
revert to the said John de Pennebrugg. The said John is the brother and
next heir of the said Edward, and is aged 40 years and more."
There is more information on this earlier John summarised in Rev.
Charles Moor's 'Knights of Edward I' vol 4 (Harl. Soc. 83) p.32,
including that he was s & h of Elizabeth de P, dec., and had livery of
her lands 6 Aug 1309; he was a lord of Eyton and Burghill, Herefs. 5
Mar 1316; his IPM was 4 Feb 1331, when he held "Bouwered, Eton, and Borwehulle" hamlets and left a s & h Edward, aged 26. We can be
reasonably sure by the devolution of the manors that this latter Edward
was the father of the later Sir John. [This Edward's birthdate of
c.1305 may mean he was John's son by Joan Hawey, whose first husband
Sir Peter Stradling is thought to have died about then; if so, he would
be a half-brother of Sir Edward Stradling.]

This seems to connect with C/143/133/3:
Fulk de Penbrugge to retain the manor of Mune acquired by him from John de Penbrugge. Glouc. 11EII (1317-8). This Fulk is presumably the one
with dates 1291-1326. Again I'm not sure where Meon/Mune is if it's in Glos.

This seems to give the answer: E 210/2115. Henry son of Ralph de
Penebruge to Payn his son; grant of his manor of Meon [in Quinton],
(Mune): Glos (no date). The villages of Lower and Upper Quinton are
indeed on Meon Hill, and were in Gloucestershire until 1931 apparently
(now in Warwickshire).

Although that charter is undated, we have a 1281 reference to "Payn de Painsbrugge" as tenant of "Boghred", in a dispute with Ralph de "Touny"
(CPR EI vol.2 p.43). This dispute turns out to have a long history- in
1258 mention is made of "trespasses and excesses committed against
Roger de Mortuo Mari and Henry de Penbregg in the parts of Wales by
Roger de Thony, Richard de Thunderle and Alan, Constable of
Painscastle" (CPR HIII 4 p.664); in 1254 "Henry de Penebrugg and
Elizabeth his wife, and Lucy and Eufemia her sisters, have shown that
Richard de Tunderle disseised Godfrey de Gamages, father of the said Elizabeth, Lucy and Eufemia, whose heirs they are, of the land of
Trewarn"; the argument being whether the said land was part of the
Honour of Painscastle (ie de Tony land) or "of the honour of Boghred,
which the said Godfrey held in chief". The dispute had started by 1252,
when Godfrey de Gamages and Richard de Tunderle were the parties.
There was an inquisition in 1253 "to ascertain whether Henry de
Penebrigg was seised of the manor of Meone and of 10 librates of land
in Dimmokes, which were of Godfrey de Gameages in the time of the said Godfrey". So Meon was also a Gamage inheritance.
The implications of all this are that Eyton didn't have one Henry too
few in his Pembruge pedigree (as I conjectured before), but one too
many, as it was evidently the elder Henry who married Elizabeth Gamages
(as a second marriage), while afterwards securing the other heiresses
for his sons by his earlier wife (perhaps Joan Fitzwarin, as mentioned before; Henry's son and heir (by the first wife), also Henry, was
admitted to the king's peace in 1268 "by mainprise of Fulk son of Warin
of the county of Salop"- CPR HIII 6 p.273); it also means that the
elder branch (later of Tong, a quo Vernons) don't have the Gamage and
Mynors ancestry, and indeed they didn't inherit any of the lands.
The line looks to go something like this (sons may not be in correct
birth order):
1.Ralph de Pembridge (maybe the 1216 one, I should have more info soon)
2.Sir Henry de Pembridge, dcd Aug 1271
+(1) [Joan dau Fulk III Fitzwarin?] dcd 1253
3a.Henry d.1279
+[?(1) Lucy de Gamages c.1254, dcd 1263 sp]
+(1/2)Orabel de Harcourt, with issue
+(2/3)Alice, liv.1312
3b.William d.1317
+Euphemia de Gamages, with issue
[?3c.Fulk, who bought marriage of Henry jr's heir 1285]
2.Henry dcd 1271, as above;
+(2) Elizabeth de Gamages c.1253, dcd 1309
3d.Payn liv.1281 [pres. dsp]
3e.Sir John, b by 1266, dcd 1331
+[Joan (Hawey) Stradling?]
4.Edward bc.1305, liv.1335, 1349?
+NN
5.Sir John liv.1356 dcd 1385
+Elizabeth liv.1385
6.Alice d.1415, married with issue as at top of post.
3f.Edward dsp 1306
3g.Godfrey liv.1267
-Matthew

If anyone is still following this, I would like to discuss the connection of the Barre, Pembrugge, Burley, and Oldcastle to Devereux. Sir Walter Devereux 'the Elder' (d. abt 1383) looks to have been the son of Sir William Devereux of Bodenham and Anne
Barre and close associate of the Burley family.

Darrell E. Larocque

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