Hello all,

I was looking through sources to confirm the birth and death dates of Sir William Bardolf, Knt., son of Sir William Bardolf, 4th Lord Bardolf and Agnes de Poynings to add to the family profile I'm working on, and came across a discrepancy.

(1) Douglas Richardson. Magna Carta Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 4 vols, ed. Kimball G. Everingham, 2nd edition (Salt Lake City: the author, 2011), Vol. II, p. 106:

"SIR WILLIAM BARDOLF died in 1424."

(2) E-CIPM 22-324: WILLIAM BARDOLF, KNIGHT:

"WILLIAM BARDOLF, KNIGHT
324 [The fragment of the writ of diem clausit extremum, dated at St[?obton] does not include the county, tenant, date or clerk.]
NORFOLK. Inquisition. Cantley. 11 September 1423. [Wynter]"

...

"He died on 25 July last. Anne widow of William Clifford, knight , and Joan wife of William Phelipp, knight , are his kinswomen and next heirs as the daughters of Thomas his brother, Anne aged 34 years and more, Joan 33 years and more. William Clyfford
died without heir of his body by Anne before the death of William Bardolf . The manors of Whinburgh, Cantley and Strumpshaw should thus remain to Anne and to William Philip and Joan according to the above."

https://inquisitionspostmortem.ac.uk/view/inquisition/22-324/

Would the IPM not mean that Sir William died in 1422 or 1423 and not 1424? The phrase "25 July last" to me means 25 July 1422 but it could be 25 July 1423 but it couldn't be 1424 since the IPM is dated December 1423.

What say you all? Thanks!

Darrell E. Larocque

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On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 7:58:27 PM UTC-8, Darrell E. Larocque wrote:

NORFOLK. Inquisition. Cantley. 11 September 1423. [Wynter]"
...
"He died on 25 July last. ...

Would the IPM not mean that Sir William died in 1422 or 1423 and not 1424? The
phrase "25 July last" to me means 25 July 1422 but it could be 25 July 1423 but
it couldn't be 1424 since the IPM is dated December 1423.

The phrase "25 July last" refers to the most recently passed 25 July. With the ipm dated in September 1423, this would be 25 July 1423. There are sometimes scribal errors in inquisitions, such that the death date is placed in the wrong year, but there
is nothing here to suggest that is the case. More importantly, as you indicate, the performance of an inquisition post mortem excludes any possibility that the subject died subsequently.

taf

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On Wednesday, December 29, 2021 at 10:30:40 AM UTC-5, taf wrote:

On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 7:58:27 PM UTC-8, Darrell E. Larocque wrote:

NORFOLK. Inquisition. Cantley. 11 September 1423. [Wynter]"
...
"He died on 25 July last. ...

Would the IPM not mean that Sir William died in 1422 or 1423 and not 1424? The
phrase "25 July last" to me means 25 July 1422 but it could be 25 July 1423 but
it couldn't be 1424 since the IPM is dated December 1423.

The phrase "25 July last" refers to the most recently passed 25 July. With the ipm dated in September 1423, this would be 25 July 1423. There are sometimes scribal errors in inquisitions, such that the death date is placed in the wrong year, but there

is nothing here to suggest that is the case. More importantly, as you indicate, the performance of an inquisition post mortem excludes any possibility that the subject died subsequently.

taf

That's why I thought it needed correction in any case, but this does clear up the issue and I meant to say that I do not know if it was cleared up in a later publication, but 25 July 1423 is correct.

Thank you! Case closed it seems for Sir William.

Darrell E. Larocque

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The idea that he died a bit later is probably this

https://books.google.com/books?id=uHVbAAAAQAAJ&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&dq=sir%20william%20bardolf%20%221424%22&pg=PA5#v=onepage&q=sir%20william%20bardolf%20%221424%22&f=false

That his widow and her new husband released this lordship to these two woman here named as heiress' in his IPM

That the author of this probably did not have access to the IPM itself implies the possibility that this was not a release in that sense, but a quit claim, she probably still holding as dower

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On Wednesday, December 29, 2021 at 12:44:36 PM UTC-8, Will Johnson wrote:

The idea that he died a bit later is probably this

https://books.google.com/books?id=uHVbAAAAQAAJ&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&dq=sir%20william%20bardolf%20%221424%22&pg=PA5#v=onepage&q=sir%20william%20bardolf%20%221424%22&f=false

That his widow and her new husband released this lordship to these two woman here named as heiress' in his IPM

That the author of this probably did not have access to the IPM itself implies the possibility that this was not a release in that sense, but a quit claim, she probably still holding as dower

I mean to say that she quitclaimed her interest, in exchange for an annuity out of the same

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On Wednesday, December 29, 2021 at 3:44:36 PM UTC-5, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:

The idea that he died a bit later is probably this

https://books.google.com/books?id=uHVbAAAAQAAJ&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&dq=sir%20william%20bardolf%20%221424%22&pg=PA5#v=onepage&q=sir%20william%20bardolf%20%221424%22&f=false

That his widow and her new husband released this lordship to these two woman here named as heiress' in his IPM

That the author of this probably did not have access to the IPM itself implies the possibility that this was not a release in that sense, but a quit claim, she probably still holding as dower

I do see that Douglas used this as a reference as it is listed first and put together the supposed death year and relationship between Richard Selling and Sir William's widow, Joan and the annuity. The publication date of this source (1781) is as you
said the probable reason why. Those two women, Anne (Bardolf) Cobham and Joan (Bardolf) Phelip, were the daughters of Thomas Bardolf, 5th Lord Bardolf just so you have an idea as to why.

Thank you for this additional information!

Darrell E. Larocque

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