On Wednesday, December 1, 2021 at 10:28:42 PM UTC-8, Leslie Mahler wrote:
Sarah Ferguson has more royal descents, through Francis Lloyd of Crickadarn, Breconshire, and Ludlow, Shropshire, died 1704:
https://genealogics.org/pedigree.php?personID=I00116828&tree=LEO
The mother of Francis was Catherine Williams of Park, Radnorshire. She has two descents from Edward III, through Vaughan & Whitney intermarriages. Marmaduke Lloyd, the father of Francis, has several descents from Edward I. Many of these lineages are outlined in Theophilus Jones, A History of the County
of Brecknock.
Thank you for working on these lines, Leslie. I have several of the St John-Mildmay family in my database, and these are their ancestors as well. I've finished entering the lines, and I don't have much to add except some details.
The two Edward III lines for Mary (Waters) (Tynte), Lady St John of Farley are laid out, both being through Constance (Audley), Lady Whitney.
Edward III had a son:
1) Edmund of Langley, 1st Duke of York (1341-1402), and had
2) Constance (Plantagenet of York), Countess of Gloucester (c.1375-1416), and had
3) Eleanor (Holland), Lady Audley, illegit., who had
4) Constance Audley m. as his 1st wife, Robert Whitney of Whitney (c.1436-1494), and had two daus A5 & B5 (see below) [*1]
A5) Joan Whitney m. Sir Roger Vaughan of Porthaml (c.1436-1514), and had
A6) Watkin Vaughan of Porthaml m. Joan Vaughan, and had
A7) Sir William Vaughan of Porthaml (d. bef.1553) m. Katherine Havard, and had A8) Anne Vaughan m. John Games of Aberbrân, and had
A9) Joan Games m. 2) Roger Williams of Parc-yr-Irfon (see B8 below), and had A10) Catherine Williams m. Marmaduke Lloyd of Crickadarn (descended from Edward I), and had [*2]
A11) FRANCIS LLOYD, M.P. Ludlow 1691-95, b. c.1655; bur. 13 Mar. 1704 Temple Church, London; m. 2nd Elizabeth Owen (who m. 2nd Richard Dawkins of Brecon), dau of Rev. Evan Owen, Rector of Beguildy, and had [*3]
A12) JANE LLOYD m. 1704, John Waters of Brecon (b. c.1681; d. 17 Jan. 1715, bur. 1 Feb. 1715), son of John Waters of Brecon, clothier (d. 1698) & his 2nd wife Mary Penry (d. 1682), and had [*4]
A13) MARY WATERS, b. Aug. 1709; d. 17 Dec. 1758 Farley Chamberlayne, Hampshire; m. 2nd 1 Oct. 1736, Sir Paulet St John, 1st Baronet of Farley (1704-1780, descended from Edward I)
B5) Eleanor Whitney m. Sir Thomas Vaughan of Bredwardine, and had
B6) Sir Richard Vaughan of Bredwardine m. Anne Butler, and had
B7) Blanche Vaughan m. Gwilym ap Madog Llwyd of Parc-yr-Irfon, and had
B8) Roger Williams of Parc-yr-Irfon m. Joan Games (see A9 above) [*2]
Some observations on the two lines above.
[*1] There has been much discussion in the past on the marriages and children of Robert Whitney of Whitney (see Generation 4 above). The most recent article on the matter 'The Two Wives of Robert Whitney' by Adrian Benjamin Burke, Foundations (2008):
https://fmg.ac/phocadownload/userupload/foundations2/JN-02-06/451Whitney.pdf
And a discussion about it in this newsgroup:
https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/7AEjnqlwxr0/m/UnLu2Y3LPZAJ
Both concluded that there is not enough contemporary (15th-century) evidence yet uncovered, to determine with certainty the maternity of any of Robert Whitney's children.
Peter Bartrum, in his Whitney 1 pedigree chart, assigns three sons and four daughters to Robert Whitney and his second wife Elizabeth Vaughan of Hergest. To his first wife Constance Audley, Bartrum assigns only two children, Joan Whitney, who married Sir
Roger Vaughan of Porthaml (see A5 above), and Eleanor Whitney, who married Thomas Vaughan of Bredwardine (see B5 above).
I'm inclined to believe Bartrum correctly assigned those two daughters to Constance Audley for a couple reasons: 1) Their first names 'Joan' and 'Eleanor' - Joan was the name of Robert Whitney's mother, and Eleanor was the name of Constance Audley's
mother, so it seems natural that those first names would've been given to Robert Whitney's eldest daughters by his first wife; and 2) Both Joan and Eleanor married into the Vaughan family, suggesting that they had a different mother than Elizabeth
Vaughan, Robert Whitney's second wife.
[*2] The lack of dates in Generations A6 to A10 above, and in Generations B5 to B8 above, is of concern. Especially as the intermarriage of Roger Williams of Parc-yr-Irfon (B8 above) and Joan Games (A9 above), is a generation apart from each other. It is
not unheard of for two intermarrying descendants of a couple to be a generation apart, but it is a red flag when there are no dates to confirm the pedigree.
[*3] Francis Lloyd of Ludlow (see Generation A11 above) has an entry in HOP, where it is shown he had a daughter by each of his two wives.
https://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1690-1715/member/lloyd-francis-1655-1704
There is a Lloyd of Maes Y Felin Pedigree in 'Some Family Records & Pedigrees of the Lloyds' by Lucy Ellen Lloyd Theakston (1913), p. 148:
https://archive.org/details/somefamilyrecord00thea/page/n148/mode/2up?q=Beguildy
Theakston states [pp. xiii-xiv]: "Francis Lloyd is believed to have married twice. His first wife was Anne Hackett, of Chalfont St. Peters, Bucks. The marriage took place by licence, dated November 25th, 1678. Frances, their daughter, was baptized at
Ludlow, November 27th, 1685. Anne died March 14th, and was buried at Ludlow, March 17th, 1685-6. ... According to Theophilus Jones's History of Brecon, and other MS. Records, Francis Lloyd appears to have married later, Elizabeth, daughter of the Rev.
Evan Owen, of Beguildy, who was probably the mother of some of his children. These are given by Jones, and by Lewis in his MS., as a son, Marmaduke, who died young, and two daughters, Frances and Jane. Frances, however, was a daughter by the first wife
as mentioned above. ... Francis Lloyd's second daughter, Jane, married in 1704, John Waters, of Brecon, and had an only daughter, Mary, who married first, Sir Halswell Tynte, 3rd Baronet":
https://archive.org/details/somefamilyrecord00thea/page/n184/mode/2up?q=Beguildy
I was able to uncover some further dates for Francis Lloyd's first wife: ANNE REWSE, bap. 5 Feb. 1647 St Botolph without Aldgate, London; d.14 Mar. 1686 Ludlow, Shropshire, bur. 17 Mar. 1686 St Lawrence Church, Ludlow, daughter of Sir Francis Rewse of
Headstone Manor, Harrow-on-the-Hill, Middlesex (1612-1654) & Anne Hutchinson (d. 1693); married 1st 17 Jan. 1665 St Andrew Holborn, London, Gustavus Hacket of London (bap. 18 Jan. 1636 St Dunstan Church, Cheam, Surrey; bur. 9 Feb. 1673 St Dunstan in the
West, London), and had issue; m. 2nd 30 Nov. 1678 St Paul Covent Garden, London, Francis Lloyd of Ludlow (c.1655-1704, descended from Edward III), and had further issue.
For Sir Francis Rewse, see the footnote on p. 8 in the 'Smith of Gordon Brook' article in 'Burke's Colonial Gentry' (1891):
https://archive.org/details/genealogicalhera01burk/page/8/mode/2up
For Gustavus Hacket, first husband of Anne Rewse, see 'Hacket Pedigree' from the 1683 Visitation of Warwick, printed in 'Miscellanea Genealogical et Heraldica' New Series Volume 2 (1877), p. 402:
https://archive.org/details/miscellaneagenea02unse/page/402/mode/2up
Marmaduke Lloyd, son of Francis Lloyd of Twickenham, matriculated at Balliol College Oxford 4 May 1699, aged 15, and became a student at the Inner Temple 1698.
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/alumni-oxon/1500-1714/pp921-955
Marmaduke Lloyd was buried 14 Feb. 1704 Temple Church, London, just one month before his father.
https://archive.org/details/registerburials00englgoog/page/n44/mode/2up
According to HOP and Theakston, Marmaduke was the son of Francis Lloyd by his second wife Elizabeth Owen. But his age at his matriculation places his birth 1683/84, during Francis Lloyd's first marriage.
I've not been able to locate baptism, marriage, or burial dates for Elizabeth (Owen) (Lloyd) Dawkins, the second wife of Francis Lloyd. Nor was I able to find any information on her father Rev. Evan Owen, rector of Beguildy.
[*4] There is a brief article and pedigree 'Waters of Brecon' by E.C.W. in 'The Herald and Genealogist' Volume 7 (1873), p. 336:
https://archive.org/details/heraldgenealogis07nich/page/336/mode/2up
An article in Notes & Queries (1918) states [p.179 ]: "John Watters m. secondly Mary, dau. to Thomas Penry of Brecknock, gent, (from Athelstan Glodri), and d. Aug. 17, 1698. By his second marriage John had a son John Watters, Esq., who m. Jane, dau. and
coheiress to Francis Lloyd of Llawrllan, Esq., one of the judges of North Wales. Her mother was Anne, dau. to Sir Francis Rewse of Headstone in Middlesex, Kt. This John d. Jan. 17 (buried Feb. 1), 1714-15, and left a dau. Mary, born Aug., 1709. He had
two other children, Jane and John, who both died infants":
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Notes_and_Queries_-_Series_12_-_Volume_4.djvu/185
If she was of Francis Lloyd's second marriage, the earliest year Jane (Lloyd) Waters (see Generation A12 above) could have been born was 1687, and that's assuming that Francis Lloyd married Elizabeth Owen within months after the death of his first wife.
Meaning that at her 1704 marriage to John Waters, Jane Loyd could not have been any older than age 17, if Elizabeth Owen was her mother. Given the chronology, and the fact that we know Francis Lloyd had more than just one child, daughter Frances, by his
first wife, I'm inclined to agree with Notes & Queries and assign the other surviving daughter and co-heiress, Jane (Lloyd) Waters, to Anne (Rewse) (Hacket) Lloyd as well.
I cannot locate any baptism, marriage or burial entries for Jane Lloyd, or for her husband John Waters of Brecon. Nor can I locate any baptism, marriage or burial entries for their daughter Mary (Waters) (Tynte), Lady St John of Farley. The dates I have
for her are from Complete Baronetage.
Cheers, -------Brad
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