• Query re 11-12th century onomastics in England

    From Peter G. M. Dale@21:1/5 to All on Tue Aug 10 11:11:25 2021
    Greetings, I recognize my post from earlier today was a bit lengthy. Thus, I've set out below my principal inquiries in the event anyone has commentary to provide. Much appreciated! Cheers, Pete

    [I] Do the names of Goismer’s sons – Alger, Guncelin, Herluin, Humphrey, Walter, William and Ralph – shed any light on his possible background?

    [II] Does the use of the names - Geoffrey x3, Richard x2, Gilbert x2, Conan, Ralph, Reginald, Robert, Roger, Walter, and William - by the sons of Goismer necessarily derive from ancestors/relatives or could they have been selected in honour of their
    superiors including members of the Clare family?

    Cheers,

    Pete

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Peter Stewart@21:1/5 to Peter G. M. Dale on Wed Aug 11 08:54:37 2021
    On 11-Aug-21 4:11 AM, Peter G. M. Dale wrote:
    Greetings, I recognize my post from earlier today was a bit lengthy. Thus, I've set out below my principal inquiries in the event anyone has commentary to provide. Much appreciated! Cheers, Pete

    [I] Do the names of Goismer’s sons – Alger, Guncelin, Herluin, Humphrey, Walter, William and Ralph – shed any light on his possible background?

    [II] Does the use of the names - Geoffrey x3, Richard x2, Gilbert x2, Conan, Ralph, Reginald, Robert, Roger, Walter, and William - by the sons of Goismer necessarily derive from ancestors/relatives or could they have been selected in honour of their
    superiors including members of the Clare family?


    I'm afraid your questions can't be meaningfully answered. You are
    basically asking "Was there a general rule for naming and did this apply
    in a particular instance?"

    The only sensible response is to say there was observable custom, not
    fixed rule, and that without much more evidence than you present we have
    no way of discerning how far custom was observed in any whole generation.

    If an heir had the same name as his paternal grandfather and a second
    son the same name as his maternal grandfather, we can suppose that this
    was from familial piety rather than coincidence. But even then we may be deluding ourselves in a specific case.

    The same limited stock of names was spread from the top to the bottom of
    the social hierarchy. Serfs belonging to abbeys demonstrably used the
    same names as lords who were - as laymen - not their direct superiors in
    a feudal sense. Medieval people favoured names and found them auspicious
    for reasons that we can only guess at. Their modern descendants still do.

    Peter Stewart

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Peter G. M. Dale@21:1/5 to All on Fri Feb 24 07:54:22 2023
    Greetings,

    I'm trying to obtain a copy of the article 'Land and Service: The Tenants of the Honour of Clare', by Richard Mortimer which is found in 'Proceedings of the Battle Conference 1985, edited by Reginald Allen Brown, pp. 177-198. I cannot seem to obtain pp.
    181, 184, 185, 190, 191, 196-198 due to copyright restrictions. I'd be grateful if anyone who has access to this article could e-mail me a copy - pdale (at) peterdale (dot) com. Alternatively, if you could send me the missing pages that would be great
    as well. I can assure all that this is strictly for personal, non-commercial, research purposes in the event there are any copyright concerns.

    Regards,

    Pete
    pdale (at) peterdale (dot) com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)