• Can anyone help with Joseph McDonald 188x- - where born, parents, stran

    From J. P. Gilliver (John)@21:1/5 to All on Wed Nov 11 20:36:35 2020
    He's a friend's ancestor.

    We have marriage certificate 2016-10-11 in Gateshead register office,
    between Joseph McDonald 28 and Mary Flanigan (yes, spelt like that) 22.
    (Yes, I know ages are often wrong on MCs, though I can't think of a
    reason he/they should _deliberately_ lie about either. She was already pregnant.) The MC is of course a copy of an entry in the register book
    of marriages, but is actually made on the date of the marriage, by the Gateshead registrar, i. e. locally.

    It says about Joseph:
    Bachelor;
    Private Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry (Machineman Engineering
    Works);
    residence: Gosforth Park;
    father: John James McDonald, Labourer in Engineering Works.

    (Mary was living in Gateshead. For those that don't know the area - it's Newcastle upon Tyne: Gateshead is on the south side of the river,
    Newcastle on the north, and Gosforth [then, anyway] a little north of Newcastle; Gosforth Park is where the racecourse is. The river was the
    county boundary - county Durham was south of the river [i. e. Gateshead
    was in it], Northumberland north [Newcastle and Gosforth]. [It's all
    "Tyne and Wear" now, since about 1971.])

    I haven't been able to find his birth (or parents) with any
    definiteness: ideas welcome!

    His military records: The MC is the only mention of the KOYLI, but
    apparently there is a KOYLI stamp on the back (maybe he was given a
    day's leave to get married and that's their way of accepting it as proof
    that he did when he got back to barracks?). The MC - see above - does
    _not_ give his serial number.

    We have a BC, 1918-8-28 in Gateshead, for a boy James, father Joseph
    McDonald, mother Mary McDonald formerly Flanigan; with that combination
    of names, especially the unusual spelling of Flanigan, and the place,
    I'm pretty sure it's the same couple. But the father's occupation is
    given as "No 10644 Rifleman Royal Irish Rifles (Stone Mason)".
    Unusually, the birth was registered on the day of the birth (though by
    someone "present at the Birth", not either parent).

    We have a medal card and roll entry for the usual Victory and British
    medals. The card says

    MACDONALD R. Ir. Rif Pte 10644
    Joseph. Wilts R 27805

    and the roll says

    27805 Pte MACDONALD 1st R.Ir.Rif. Class Z. 29.5.19
    Joseph 10644 Pte
    6th Wilts R. 27805

    (I know class Z was those who could be recalled at short notice if
    Germany did not accept the surrender terms.)


    So it looks as if he was in _three_ regiments: KOYLI, R.Ir.Rif, and
    Wiltshire Regiment (Duke of Edinburghīs), with the first serial number
    (10644) being used for two of them. And also perhaps recalled to a
    reserved occupation - though rather different ones!

    I know various regiments were amalgamated into/absorbed by others, when military action sadly reduced their numbers below viability. Was he just unfortunate to have this happen twice (or, if in reserved work at home,
    the regiments he was _nominally_ part of unfortunate in that way), or is something else going on? (I can't find the oodles of pages of military
    odds and ends I've found for some other soldiers; I presume his is one
    of the "burnt records".)

    And what's with the varying occupation - from same (-ish) as his dad, to
    Stone Mason (which I'd have _thought_ takes more than two years)?
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    You can be tough without being rude - Nick Clegg, 2014 July

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  • From john@21:1/5 to All on Wed Nov 11 23:05:32 2020
    On 11/11/2020 21:36, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
    He's a friend's ancestor.

    We have marriage certificate 2016-10-11 in Gateshead register office,
    between Joseph McDonald 28 and Mary Flanigan (yes, spelt like that) 22.
    (Yes, I know ages are often wrong on MCs, though I can't think of a
    reason he/they should _deliberately_ lie about either. She was already pregnant.) The MC is of course a copy of an entry in the register book
    of marriages, but is actually made on the date of the marriage, by the Gateshead registrar, i. e. locally.

    It says about Joseph:
    Bachelor;
    Private Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry (Machineman Engineering
    Works);
    residence: Gosforth Park;
    father: John James McDonald, Labourer in Engineering Works.

    (Mary was living in Gateshead. For those that don't know the area - it's Newcastle upon Tyne: Gateshead is on the south side of the river,
    Newcastle on the north, and Gosforth [then, anyway] a little north of Newcastle; Gosforth Park is where the racecourse is. The river was the
    county boundary - county Durham was south of the river [i. e. Gateshead
    was in it], Northumberland north [Newcastle and Gosforth]. [It's all
    "Tyne and Wear" now, since about 1971.])

    I haven't been able to find his birth (or parents) with any
    definiteness: ideas welcome!

    His military records: The MC is the only mention of the KOYLI, but
    apparently there is a KOYLI stamp on the back (maybe he was given a
    day's leave to get married and that's their way of accepting it as proof
    that he did when he got back to barracks?). The MC - see above - does
    _not_ give his serial number.

    We have a BC, 1918-8-28 in Gateshead, for a boy James, father Joseph McDonald, mother Mary McDonald formerly Flanigan; with that combination
    of names, especially the unusual spelling of Flanigan, and the place,
    I'm pretty sure it's the same couple. But the father's occupation is
    given as "No 10644 Rifleman Royal Irish Rifles (Stone Mason)".
    Unusually, the birth was registered on the day of the birth (though by someone "present at the Birth", not either parent).

    We have a medal card and roll entry for the usual Victory and British
    medals. The card says

    MACDONALD R. Ir. Rif Pte 10644
    Joseph. Wilts R 27805

    and the roll says

    27805 Pte MACDONALD 1st R.Ir.Rif. Class Z. 29.5.19
    Joseph 10644 Pte
    6th Wilts R. 27805

    (I know class Z was those who could be recalled at short notice if
    Germany did not accept the surrender terms.)


    So it looks as if he was in _three_ regiments: KOYLI, R.Ir.Rif, and
    Wiltshire Regiment (Duke of Edinburgh¬īs), with the first serial number (10644) being used for two of them. And also perhaps recalled to a
    reserved occupation - though rather different ones!

    I know various regiments were amalgamated into/absorbed by others, when military action sadly reduced their numbers below viability. Was he just unfortunate to have this happen twice (or, if in reserved work at home,
    the regiments he was _nominally_ part of unfortunate in that way), or is something else going on? (I can't find the oodles of pages of military
    odds and ends I've found for some other soldiers; I presume his is one
    of the "burnt records".)

    And what's with the varying occupation - from same (-ish) as his dad, to Stone Mason (which I'd have _thought_ takes more than two years)?


    There are public trees on Ancestry for Joseph Martin McDonald McDonough McDonnell Macdonald, b 4 Dec 1886, Derby, Derbyshire, England. His
    marriage and his children agree with your research
    Father John James McDonald McDonnell McDonough (b 1856 Mayo, Ireland d
    1922 Derby)
    Mother Mary O'Malley (b 1860 Mayo d 1904 Derby)
    but I'm not sure any of the links to the identified parents is correct.

    There are no census entries for the parents after 1901. In 1901 his
    father is a "hostler" at a stables in Derby and there is a son Joseph
    RG13 P3217 f181 p30

    It looks as though it is all joined by the 1911 England Census Class:
    RG14; Piece: 20883 where there is a Joseph McDonald, fitters labourer
    living in a Lodging House 47 Bridge Gate, Derby, born in Derby

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  • From J. P. Gilliver (John)@21:1/5 to All on Thu Nov 12 02:07:21 2020
    On Wed, 11 Nov 2020 at 23:05:32, john <john1@s145802280.onlinehome.fr>
    wrote:
    On 11/11/2020 21:36, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
    He's a friend's ancestor.
    We have marriage certificate 2016-10-11 in Gateshead register
    office,
    between Joseph McDonald 28 and Mary Flanigan (yes, spelt like that) 22.
    (Yes, I know ages are often wrong on MCs, though I can't think of a
    reason he/they should _deliberately_ lie about either. She was already
    pregnant.) The MC is of course a copy of an entry in the register book
    of marriages, but is actually made on the date of the marriage, by the
    Gateshead registrar, i. e. locally.
    It says about Joseph:
    Bachelor;
    Private Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry (Machineman Engineering
    Works);
    residence: Gosforth Park;
    father: John James McDonald, Labourer in Engineering Works.
    (Mary was living in Gateshead. For those that don't know the area -
    it's
    Newcastle upon Tyne: Gateshead is on the south side of the river,
    Newcastle on the north, and Gosforth [then, anyway] a little north of
    Newcastle; Gosforth Park is where the racecourse is. The river was the
    county boundary - county Durham was south of the river [i. e. Gateshead
    was in it], Northumberland north [Newcastle and Gosforth]. [It's all
    "Tyne and Wear" now, since about 1971.])
    I haven't been able to find his birth (or parents) with any
    definiteness: ideas welcome!
    His military records: The MC is the only mention of the KOYLI, but
    apparently there is a KOYLI stamp on the back (maybe he was given a
    day's leave to get married and that's their way of accepting it as proof
    that he did when he got back to barracks?). The MC - see above - does
    _not_ give his serial number.
    We have a BC, 1918-8-28 in Gateshead, for a boy James, father Joseph
    McDonald, mother Mary McDonald formerly Flanigan; with that combination
    of names, especially the unusual spelling of Flanigan, and the place,
    I'm pretty sure it's the same couple. But the father's occupation is
    given as "No 10644 Rifleman Royal Irish Rifles (Stone Mason)".
    Unusually, the birth was registered on the day of the birth (though by
    someone "present at the Birth", not either parent).
    We have a medal card and roll entry for the usual Victory and
    British
    medals. The card says
    MACDONALD R. Ir. Rif Pte 10644
    Joseph. Wilts R 27805
    and the roll says
    27805 Pte MACDONALD 1st R.Ir.Rif. Class Z.
    29.5.19
    Joseph 10644 Pte
    6th Wilts R. 27805
    (I know class Z was those who could be recalled at short notice if
    Germany did not accept the surrender terms.)
    So it looks as if he was in _three_ regiments: KOYLI, R.Ir.Rif, and
    Wiltshire Regiment (Duke of Edinburghīs), with the first serial number
    (10644) being used for two of them. And also perhaps recalled to a
    reserved occupation - though rather different ones!
    I know various regiments were amalgamated into/absorbed by others,
    when
    military action sadly reduced their numbers below viability. Was he just
    unfortunate to have this happen twice (or, if in reserved work at home,
    the regiments he was _nominally_ part of unfortunate in that way), or is
    something else going on? (I can't find the oodles of pages of military
    odds and ends I've found for some other soldiers; I presume his is one
    of the "burnt records".)
    And what's with the varying occupation - from same (-ish) as his
    dad, to
    Stone Mason (which I'd have _thought_ takes more than two years)?


    There are public trees on Ancestry for Joseph Martin McDonald McDonough >McDonnell Macdonald, b 4 Dec 1886, Derby, Derbyshire, England. His

    Yes, I know about him - but by 1916-10-11, he'd be ten months past his
    29th birthday, so why say he was only 28? As I said, I know ages at
    marriage are often wrong, but that's usually so both parents are "of
    full age".

    marriage and his children agree with your research
    Father John James McDonald McDonnell McDonough (b 1856 Mayo, Ireland d
    1922 Derby)
    Mother Mary O'Malley (b 1860 Mayo d 1904 Derby)
    but I'm not sure any of the links to the identified parents is correct.

    There are no census entries for the parents after 1901. In 1901 his

    (Assuming they _are_ the parents.) (H)ostler would work with his
    profession of "Cart man" on the BC of the Derby birth, too. But he seems
    to be alive at the 1916 marriage, and in an Engineering Works.

    father is a "hostler" at a stables in Derby and there is a son Joseph
    RG13 P3217 f181 p30

    It looks as though it is all joined by the 1911 England Census Class:
    RG14; Piece: 20883 where there is a Joseph McDonald, fitters labourer
    living in a Lodging House 47 Bridge Gate, Derby, born in Derby

    He has to get to Newcastle area by 1916 (though sure that isn't
    impossible). Fitters Labourer to Machineman I suppose isn't that far a
    stretch, though to Stone Mason two years later certainly sounds unusual,
    at least.

    Roll on the 1921 census - maybe that'll show whether the Newcastle-area
    family have Derby roots. (I'd been assuming it would come out next year,
    but my friend thinks 2022-1-1 - anyone know?)

    Any thoughts on the military career? (And thanks again for looking.)
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    "Bother," said Pooh, as he tasted the bacon in his sandwich.

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  • From cecilia@21:1/5 to G6JPG@255soft.uk on Thu Nov 12 09:27:02 2020
    On Wed, 11 Nov 2020 20:36:35 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
    <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

    He's a friend's ancestor.

    We have marriage certificate 2016-10-11 in Gateshead register office,
    between Joseph McDonald 28 and Mary Flanigan (yes, spelt like that) 22.
    (Yes, I know ages are often wrong on MCs, though I can't think of a
    reason he/they should _deliberately_ lie about either. She was already >pregnant.) [...]

    I know of a 20C marriage where the bride lied about her age (wanted to
    appear under 25) to the man courting her and was only discovered to
    have done so when a birth certificate was needed in her old age and
    the registrar, having searched for the date she had given, came back
    to her and her accompaning daughter to check he had noted the date
    correctly - apparently the woman, well over 80, went bright red and
    said "Try two years earlier".

    A more extreme case was a great-great-grandmother of mine - listed as
    aged 11 in the 1841 census (highly likely given the date of marriage
    of her parents and the ages of her older and younger siblings), 18 in
    the 1851 census, and 18 when she married in 1856 (6 or 7 months
    pregnant). After the marriage, she aged at the normal rate, but did
    not regain the lost years.

    It's also possible for information to be misheard / mistranscribed/ misunderstood and not noticed in time (or much cared about).

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  • From john@21:1/5 to All on Thu Nov 12 12:04:47 2020
    On 12/11/2020 03:07, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
    On Wed, 11 Nov 2020 at 23:05:32, john <john1@s145802280.onlinehome.fr>
    wrote:
    On 11/11/2020 21:36, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
    He's a friend's ancestor.
     We have marriage certificate 2016-10-11 in Gateshead register office,
    between Joseph McDonald 28 and Mary Flanigan (yes, spelt like that) 22.
    (Yes, I know ages are often wrong on MCs, though I can't think of a
    reason he/they should _deliberately_ lie about either. She was already
    pregnant.) The MC is of course a copy of an entry in the register book
    of marriages, but is actually made on the date of the marriage, by the
    Gateshead registrar, i. e. locally.
     It says about Joseph:
    Bachelor;
    Private Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry (Machineman Engineering
    Works);
    residence: Gosforth Park;
    father: John James McDonald, Labourer in Engineering Works.
     (Mary was living in Gateshead. For those that don't know the area -
    it's
    Newcastle upon Tyne: Gateshead is on the south side of the river,
    Newcastle on the north, and Gosforth [then, anyway] a little north of
    Newcastle; Gosforth Park is where the racecourse is. The river was the
    county boundary - county Durham was south of the river [i. e. Gateshead
    was in it], Northumberland north [Newcastle and Gosforth]. [It's all
    "Tyne and Wear" now, since about 1971.])
     I haven't been able to find his birth (or parents) with any
    definiteness: ideas welcome!
     His military records: The MC is the only mention of the KOYLI, but
    apparently there is a KOYLI stamp on the back (maybe he was given a
    day's leave to get married and that's their way of accepting it as proof >>> that he did when he got back to barracks?). The MC - see above - does
    _not_ give his serial number.
     We have a BC, 1918-8-28 in Gateshead, for a boy James, father Joseph
    McDonald, mother Mary McDonald formerly Flanigan; with that combination
    of names, especially the unusual spelling of Flanigan, and the place,
    I'm pretty sure it's the same couple. But the father's occupation is
    given as "No 10644 Rifleman Royal Irish Rifles (Stone Mason)".
    Unusually, the birth was registered on the day of the birth (though by
    someone "present at the Birth", not either parent).
     We have a medal card and roll entry for the usual Victory and British
    medals. The card says
     MACDONALD       R. Ir. Rif      Pte     10644
    Joseph.         Wilts R                 27805
     and the roll says
     27805   Pte     MACDONALD       1st R.Ir.Rif.           Class Z.
    29.5.19
                     Joseph          10644 Pte
                                     6th Wilts R. 27805
     (I know class Z was those who could be recalled at short notice if
    Germany did not accept the surrender terms.)
      So it looks as if he was in _three_ regiments: KOYLI, R.Ir.Rif, and
    Wiltshire Regiment (Duke of Edinburgh¬īs), with the first serial number
    (10644) being used for two of them. And also perhaps recalled to a
    reserved occupation - though rather different ones!
     I know various regiments were amalgamated into/absorbed by others, when >>> military action sadly reduced their numbers below viability. Was he just >>> unfortunate to have this happen twice (or, if in reserved work at home,
    the regiments he was _nominally_ part of unfortunate in that way), or is >>> something else going on? (I can't find the oodles of pages of military
    odds and ends I've found for some other soldiers; I presume his is one
    of the "burnt records".)
     And what's with the varying occupation - from same (-ish) as his
    dad, to
    Stone Mason (which I'd have _thought_ takes more than two years)?


    There are public trees on Ancestry for Joseph Martin McDonald
    McDonough McDonnell Macdonald, b 4 Dec 1886, Derby, Derbyshire,
    England. His

    Yes, I know about him - but by 1916-10-11, he'd be ten months past his
    29th birthday, so why say he was only 28? As I said, I know ages at
    marriage are often wrong, but that's usually so both parents are "of
    full age".

    marriage and his children agree with your research
    Father John James McDonald McDonnell McDonough (b 1856 Mayo, Ireland d
    1922 Derby)
    Mother Mary O'Malley (b 1860 Mayo d 1904 Derby)
    but I'm not sure any of the links to the identified parents is correct.

    There are no census entries for the parents after 1901. In 1901 his

    (Assuming they _are_ the parents.) (H)ostler would work with his
    profession of "Cart man" on the BC of the Derby birth, too. But he seems
    to be alive at the 1916 marriage, and in an Engineering Works.

    father is a "hostler"  at a stables in Derby and there is a son Joseph
    RG13 P3217 f181 p30

    It looks as though it is all joined by the 1911 England Census Class:
    RG14; Piece: 20883 where there is a Joseph McDonald, fitters labourer
    living in a Lodging House 47 Bridge Gate, Derby, born in Derby

    He has to get to Newcastle area by 1916 (though sure that isn't
    impossible). Fitters Labourer to Machineman I suppose isn't that far a stretch, though to Stone Mason two years later certainly sounds unusual,
    at least.

    Roll on the 1921 census - maybe that'll show whether the Newcastle-area family have Derby roots. (I'd been assuming it would come out next year,
    but my friend thinks 2022-1-1 - anyone know?)

    Any thoughts on the military career? (And thanks again for looking.)

    First, can you please stop posting replies interspersed with another
    reply. It is hard for me (and I suspect others) to follow and sometimes
    means I miss part of what you have written, especially when there are
    replies to replies, etc.

    Please just bottom post all your comments/additions in one place.


    I think you've identified the wrong military record
    I think this is the one you are looking for
    Joseph MacDonald
    http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D3792575
    Reference: WO 372/12/214568
    Description: Medal card of MacDonald, Joseph
    Yorkshire Light Infantry 18873 Private
    Date: 1914-1920
    the medal card includes a correction for the surname to McDonald

    Name: Joseph MacDonald
    Rank: Pte
    Record Type: Disability
    Residence Place: Wakefield
    Military Service Region: North East, England
    Service Number: 18873
    Corps, Regiment or Unit: King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry
    Service Branch: Military (Army)
    Title: WWI Pension Record Cards and Ledgers
    Description: PRC Ledgers
    Reference Number: 4/MM/No.2743 and Reference Number: 4/MM/No.1962

    This may be his birth from GRO
    MACDONNALD, JOSEPH RODGERS
    GRO Reference: 1891 J Quarter in WAKEFIELD Volume 09C Page 25

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  • From J. P. Gilliver (John)@21:1/5 to All on Thu Nov 12 14:54:49 2020
    On Thu, 12 Nov 2020 at 12:04:47, john <john1@s145802280.onlinehome.fr>
    wrote:
    []
    First, can you please stop posting replies interspersed with another
    reply. It is hard for me (and I suspect others) to follow and sometimes
    means I miss part of what you have written, especially when there are
    replies to replies, etc.

    Please just bottom post all your comments/additions in one place.


    First: No. To me, posting all one's responses at the end is (almost) as
    bad as posting them all at the top: interposting makes it clear which
    points I am responding to (and snipping - shown by [] - shows which
    points I am not responding to at all). _If_ people numbered their
    points, then responding by numbers _might_ be do-able - though would
    still require the reader to scroll up and down a lot. Unless they have a phenomenal memory, and can memorise all of the first (quoted) part of
    the post; even then, unless numbered or similar, reading the responses
    is still difficult to tell which response goes with what - unless the
    responder repeats the questions in his/her answer text.

    However, I will try to insert more blank lines in my responses so they
    stand out more. (As in this example.)


    I think you've identified the wrong military record
    I think this is the one you are looking for
    Joseph MacDonald
    http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D3792575
    Reference: WO 372/12/214568
    Description: Medal card of MacDonald, Joseph
    Yorkshire Light Infantry 18873 Private
    Date: 1914-1920
    the medal card includes a correction for the surname to McDonald


    Secondly: thank you for this; it looks very promising!


    Name: Joseph MacDonald
    Rank: Pte
    Record Type: Disability
    Residence Place: Wakefield
    Military Service Region: North East, England
    Service Number: 18873
    Corps, Regiment or Unit: King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry
    Service Branch: Military (Army)
    Title: WWI Pension Record Cards and Ledgers
    Description: PRC Ledgers
    Reference Number: 4/MM/No.2743 and Reference Number: 4/MM/No.1962

    This may be his birth from GRO
    MACDONNALD, JOSEPH RODGERS
    GRO Reference: 1891 J Quarter in WAKEFIELD Volume 09C Page 25


    I will look into that too, thanks.

    John
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    Never rely on somebody else for your happiness.
    - Bette Davis, quoted by Celia Imrie, RT 2014/3/12-18

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  • From J. P. Gilliver (John)@21:1/5 to cecilia on Thu Nov 12 14:43:22 2020
    On Thu, 12 Nov 2020 at 09:27:02, cecilia <myths@ic24.net> wrote:
    On Wed, 11 Nov 2020 20:36:35 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)" ><G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

    He's a friend's ancestor.

    We have marriage certificate 2016-10-11 in Gateshead register office, >>between Joseph McDonald 28 and Mary Flanigan (yes, spelt like that) 22. >>(Yes, I know ages are often wrong on MCs, though I can't think of a
    reason he/they should _deliberately_ lie about either. She was already >>pregnant.) [...]

    I know of a 20C marriage where the bride lied about her age (wanted to
    appear under 25) to the man courting her and was only discovered to
    have done so when a birth certificate was needed in her old age and
    the registrar, having searched for the date she had given, came back
    to her and her accompaning daughter to check he had noted the date
    correctly - apparently the woman, well over 80, went bright red and
    said "Try two years earlier".

    (-:

    I think in the case of the McDonalds above, other information supports
    her 22; his 28 I can't say yet, as I've not convinced myself I've
    _found_ any other information. (The Derby one looks the most likely.)
    []
    It's also possible for information to be misheard / mistranscribed/ >misunderstood and not noticed in time (or much cared about).

    Indeed.
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    Never raise your hand to your children. It leaves your mid-section unprotected

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  • From john@21:1/5 to All on Thu Nov 12 16:02:40 2020
    On 12/11/2020 15:54, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
    On Thu, 12 Nov 2020 at 12:04:47, john <john1@s145802280.onlinehome.fr>
    wrote:
    []
    First, can you please stop posting replies interspersed with another
    reply. It is hard for me (and I suspect others) to follow and
    sometimes means I miss part of what you have written, especially when
    there are replies to replies, etc.

    Please just bottom post all your comments/additions in one place.


    First: No. To me, posting all one's responses at the end is (almost) as
    bad as posting them all at the top: interposting makes it clear which
    points I am responding to (and snipping - shown by [] - shows which
    points I am not responding to at all). _If_ people numbered their
    points, then responding by numbers _might_ be do-able - though would
    still require the reader to scroll up and down a lot. Unless they have a phenomenal memory, and can memorise all of the first (quoted) part of
    the post; even then, unless numbered or similar, reading the responses
    is still difficult to tell which response goes with what - unless the responder repeats the questions in his/her answer text.

    However, I will try to insert more blank lines in my responses so they
    stand out more. (As in this example.)


    I think you've identified the wrong military record
    I think this is the one you are looking for
    Joseph MacDonald
    http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D3792575
    Reference:     WO 372/12/214568
    Description: Medal card of MacDonald, Joseph
    Yorkshire Light Infantry 18873 Private
    Date:  1914-1920
    the medal card includes a correction for the surname to McDonald


    Secondly: thank you for this; it looks very promising!


    Name:  Joseph MacDonald
    Rank:  Pte
    Record Type:   Disability
    Residence Place:       Wakefield
    Military Service Region:       North East, England
    Service Number:        18873
    Corps, Regiment or Unit:       King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry
    Service Branch:        Military (Army)
    Title: WWI Pension Record Cards and Ledgers
    Description:   PRC Ledgers
    Reference Number:      4/MM/No.2743 and Reference Number:
    4/MM/No.1962

    This may be his birth from GRO
    MACDONNALD, JOSEPH     RODGERS
    GRO Reference: 1891  J Quarter in WAKEFIELD  Volume 09C  Page 25


    I will look into that too, thanks.

    John

    Sorry, I'll not bother with your posts any more then.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From J. P. Gilliver (John)@21:1/5 to All on Thu Nov 12 15:14:44 2020
    All my responses are at the end (apart from this line).

    On Thu, 12 Nov 2020 at 16:02:40, john <john1@s145802280.onlinehome.fr>
    wrote:
    On 12/11/2020 15:54, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
    On Thu, 12 Nov 2020 at 12:04:47, john
    <john1@s145802280.onlinehome.fr> wrote:
    []
    First, can you please stop posting replies interspersed with another >>>reply. It is hard for me (and I suspect others) to follow and
    sometimes means I miss part of what you have written, especially when >>>there are replies to replies, etc.

    Please just bottom post all your comments/additions in one place.

    First: No. To me, posting all one's responses at the end is (almost)
    as bad as posting them all at the top: interposting makes it clear
    which points I am responding to (and snipping - shown by [] - shows
    which points I am not responding to at all). _If_ people numbered
    their points, then responding by numbers _might_ be do-able - though
    would still require the reader to scroll up and down a lot. Unless
    they have a phenomenal memory, and can memorise all of the first
    (quoted) part of the post; even then, unless numbered or similar,
    reading the responses is still difficult to tell which response goes
    with what - unless the responder repeats the questions in his/her answer text.
    However, I will try to insert more blank lines in my responses so
    they stand out more. (As in this example.)


    I think you've identified the wrong military record
    I think this is the one you are looking for
    Joseph MacDonald
    http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D3792575
    Reference:†††† WO 372/12/214568
    Description: Medal card of MacDonald, Joseph
    Yorkshire Light Infantry 18873 Private
    Date:† 1914-1920
    the medal card includes a correction for the surname to McDonald
    Secondly: thank you for this; it looks very promising!


    Name:† Joseph MacDonald
    Rank:† Pte
    Record Type:†† Disability
    Residence Place:†††††† Wakefield
    Military Service Region:†††††† North East, England
    Service Number:††††††† 18873
    Corps, Regiment or Unit:†††††† King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry
    Service Branch:††††††† Military (Army)
    Title: WWI Pension Record Cards and Ledgers
    Description:†† PRC Ledgers
    Reference Number:††††† 4/MM/No.2743 and Reference Number:
    4/MM/No.1962

    This may be his birth from GRO
    MACDONNALD, JOSEPH†††† RODGERS
    GRO Reference: 1891† J Quarter in WAKEFIELD† Volume 09C† Page 25


    I will look into that too, thanks.

    John

    Sorry, I'll not bother with your posts any more then.

    OK, here's my previous reply all at the bottom (leaving out the bit
    about interposting):

    thank you for this; it looks very promising!
    That looks interesting.
    I will look into that too, thanks.

    (-:
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    Never rely on somebody else for your happiness.
    - Bette Davis, quoted by Celia Imrie, RT 2014/3/12-18

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chris J Dixon@21:1/5 to All on Thu Nov 12 15:30:24 2020
    J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

    OK, here's my previous reply all at the bottom (leaving out the bit
    about interposting):

    thank you for this; it looks very promising!
    That looks interesting.
    I will look into that too, thanks.

    (-:

    I'm with you on this one. ;-)

    Chris
    --
    Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
    chris@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1

    Plant amazing Acers.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ian Goddard@21:1/5 to All on Thu Nov 12 17:35:21 2020
    On 12/11/2020 14:54, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
    Please just bottom post all your comments/additions in one place.


    First: No. To me, posting all one's responses at the end is (almost) as
    bad as posting them all at the top: interposting makes it clear which
    points I am responding to (and snipping - shown by [] - shows which
    points I am not responding to at all).

    I think this is best practice.

    Ian

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john@21:1/5 to Ian Goddard on Fri Nov 13 10:16:37 2020
    On 12/11/2020 18:35, Ian Goddard wrote:
    On 12/11/2020 14:54, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
    Please just bottom post all your comments/additions in one place.


    First: No. To me, posting all one's responses at the end is (almost)
    as bad as posting them all at the top: interposting makes it clear
    which points I am responding to (and snipping - shown by [] - shows
    which points I am not responding to at all).

    I think this is best practice.

    Ian

    Perhaps you have better Usenet readers than I do. I use Thunderbird for
    my mail/groups. All I see here is an indented black-and-white jungle.

    However, I must admit I'm now considering looking for a Win/Linux
    replacement, having used it for the last 15 years. The recent changes
    have meant I have had to stick with v68 as various add-ons I find
    essential no longer work with later versions.

    Still, not bothering to investigate will save me a few hours of research attempting to find a solution each time someone posts an interesting
    query. Not that there seem to be many of us still around here to do so?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From J. P. Gilliver (John)@21:1/5 to All on Fri Nov 13 13:51:38 2020
    On Fri, 13 Nov 2020 at 10:16:37, john <john1@s145802280.onlinehome.fr>
    wrote:
    On 12/11/2020 18:35, Ian Goddard wrote:
    On 12/11/2020 14:54, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
    Please just bottom post all your comments/additions in one place.


    First: No. To me, posting all one's responses at the end is (almost)
    as bad as posting them all at the top: interposting makes it clear
    which points I am responding to (and snipping - shown by [] - shows
    which points I am not responding to at all).
    I think this is best practice.
    Ian

    Perhaps you have better Usenet readers than I do. I use Thunderbird for
    my mail/groups. All I see here is an indented black-and-white jungle.

    Although I don't use TB - I use Turnpike - I have notes somewhere on how
    to make TB look like TP; one is the addition of an add-on that colours multi-level things to make it easier to see who posted what. (Which TP
    does by default.) If you like, email me and I'll try to dig out the
    notes. (IIRR, the add-on involved dates from when TB version numbers
    were in single digits, so you have to fiddle, but the notes cover that
    too.)

    However, I must admit I'm now considering looking for a Win/Linux >replacement, having used it for the last 15 years. The recent changes
    have meant I have had to stick with v68 as various add-ons I find
    essential no longer work with later versions.

    (Yes, I've saved the installer for whichever is the last one that works
    with lots of old add-ons, in case I ever have to switch to it.)

    Still, not bothering to investigate will save me a few hours of
    research attempting to find a solution each time someone posts an
    interesting query.

    (-:

    Not that there seem to be many of us still around here to do so?

    Yes, the 'group does seem rather quiet!
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    "Gentlemen, you can't fight in here: this is the war room!" (Dr. Strangelove)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Graeme Wall@21:1/5 to All on Fri Nov 13 16:32:48 2020
    On 13/11/2020 13:51, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
    On Fri, 13 Nov 2020 at 10:16:37, john <john1@s145802280.onlinehome.fr>
    wrote:
    On 12/11/2020 18:35, Ian Goddard wrote:
    On 12/11/2020 14:54, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
    Please just bottom post all your comments/additions in one place.


    First: No. To me, posting all one's responses at the end is (almost)
    as bad as posting them all at the top: interposting makes it clear
    which points I am responding to (and snipping - shown by [] - shows
    which points I am not responding to at all).
     I think this is best practice.
     Ian

    Perhaps you have better Usenet readers than I do. I use Thunderbird
    for my mail/groups. All I see here is an indented black-and-white jungle.

    Although I don't use TB - I use Turnpike - I have notes somewhere on how
    to make TB look like TP; one is the addition of an add-on that colours multi-level things to make it easier to see who posted what. (Which TP
    does by default.) If you like, email me and I'll try to dig out the
    notes. (IIRR, the add-on involved dates from when TB version numbers
    were in single digits, so you have to fiddle, but the notes cover that
    too.)

    However, I must admit I'm now considering looking for a Win/Linux
    replacement, having used it for the last 15 years. The recent changes
    have meant I have had to stick with v68 as various add-ons I find
    essential no longer work with later versions.

    (Yes, I've saved the installer for whichever is the last one that works
    with lots of old add-ons, in case I ever have to switch to it.)

    Still, not bothering to investigate will save me a few hours of
    research attempting to find a solution each time someone posts an
    interesting query.

    (-:

    Not that there seem to be many of us still around here to do so?

    Yes, the 'group does seem rather quiet!

    TB colours by default here (on a Mac), perhaps there is something in the settings?

    --
    Graeme Wall
    This account not read.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From real_grizz_adams@yahoo.co.uk@21:1/5 to All on Fri Nov 13 17:37:56 2020
    13 November 2020 at 16:32, Graeme Wall wrote:
    Re: Can anyone help with Joseph McDonald 188x- - (at least in part)

    However, I must admit I'm now considering looking for a Win/Linux
    replacement

    I use Pegasus with NewsMail / NewPost works well in windows, I have not checked if the News add-ons work as well in Linux (under Wine) Pegasus does work a treat

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ian Goddard@21:1/5 to john on Fri Nov 13 17:23:26 2020
    On 13/11/2020 09:16, john wrote:
    On 12/11/2020 18:35, Ian Goddard wrote:
    On 12/11/2020 14:54, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
    Please just bottom post all your comments/additions in one place.


    First: No. To me, posting all one's responses at the end is (almost)
    as bad as posting them all at the top: interposting makes it clear
    which points I am responding to (and snipping - shown by [] - shows
    which points I am not responding to at all).

    I think this is best practice.

    Perhaps you have better Usenet readers than I do. I use Thunderbird for
    my mail/groups. All I see here is an indented black-and-white jungle.

    However, I must admit I'm now considering looking for a Win/Linux replacement, having used it for the last 15 years. The recent changes
    have meant I have had to stick with v68 as various add-ons I find
    essential no longer work with later versions.

    Still, not bothering to investigate will save me a few hours of research attempting to find a solution each time someone posts an interesting
    query. Not that there seem to be many of us still around here to do so?

    I use Seamonkey for which the mail/groups component is derived from
    Thunderbird so I see the same thing as you.

    I'm not sure how that affects things, however. It's far better to see a
    point and the response to it immediately below than have the responses
    to several points collected at the bottom, some of them to points made a
    long way back.

    Sometimes, of course, it's possible to deal with several points in a
    single argument but this is by no means always the case.

    It helps a lot if the post being replied is snipped to remove material
    not immediately relevant to the replies. It's really a matter of seeing
    the reply in context.

    Ian

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john@21:1/5 to All on Sat Nov 14 10:13:50 2020
    On 13/11/2020 14:51, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
    On Fri, 13 Nov 2020 at 10:16:37, john <john1@s145802280.onlinehome.fr>
    wrote:
    On 12/11/2020 18:35, Ian Goddard wrote:
    On 12/11/2020 14:54, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
    Please just bottom post all your comments/additions in one place.


    First: No. To me, posting all one's responses at the end is (almost)
    as bad as posting them all at the top: interposting makes it clear
    which points I am responding to (and snipping - shown by [] - shows
    which points I am not responding to at all).
     I think this is best practice.
     Ian

    Perhaps you have better Usenet readers than I do. I use Thunderbird
    for my mail/groups. All I see here is an indented black-and-white jungle.

    Although I don't use TB - I use Turnpike - I have notes somewhere on how
    to make TB look like TP; one is the addition of an add-on that colours multi-level things to make it easier to see who posted what. (Which TP
    does by default.) If you like, email me and I'll try to dig out the
    notes. (IIRR, the add-on involved dates from when TB version numbers
    were in single digits, so you have to fiddle, but the notes cover that
    too.)

    However, I must admit I'm now considering looking for a Win/Linux
    replacement, having used it for the last 15 years. The recent changes
    have meant I have had to stick with v68 as various add-ons I find
    essential no longer work with later versions.

    (Yes, I've saved the installer for whichever is the last one that works
    with lots of old add-ons, in case I ever have to switch to it.)

    Still, not bothering to investigate will save me a few hours of
    research attempting to find a solution each time someone posts an
    interesting query.

    (-:

    Not that there seem to be many of us still around here to do so?

    Yes, the 'group does seem rather quiet!

    Thank you for the suggestion a Thunderbird addon might exist. I've
    found one, QuoteColors TB 68. It works. And I'll be continuing with Thunderbird 68 for a while as I rejected two other possible e-mail
    clients yesterday.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john@21:1/5 to john on Sat Nov 14 11:08:29 2020
    On 12/11/2020 16:02, john wrote:
    On 12/11/2020 15:54, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
    On Thu, 12 Nov 2020 at 12:04:47, john <john1@s145802280.onlinehome.fr>
    wrote:
    []
    First, can you please stop posting replies interspersed with another
    reply. It is hard for me (and I suspect others) to follow and
    sometimes means I miss part of what you have written, especially when
    there are replies to replies, etc.

    Please just bottom post all your comments/additions in one place.


    First: No. To me, posting all one's responses at the end is (almost)
    as bad as posting them all at the top: interposting makes it clear
    which points I am responding to (and snipping - shown by [] - shows
    which points I am not responding to at all). _If_ people numbered
    their points, then responding by numbers _might_ be do-able - though
    would still require the reader to scroll up and down a lot. Unless
    they have a phenomenal memory, and can memorise all of the first
    (quoted) part of the post; even then, unless numbered or similar,
    reading the responses is still difficult to tell which response goes
    with what - unless the responder repeats the questions in his/her
    answer text.

    However, I will try to insert more blank lines in my responses so they
    stand out more. (As in this example.)


    I think you've identified the wrong military record
    I think this is the one you are looking for
    Joseph MacDonald
    http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D3792575
    Reference:     WO 372/12/214568
    Description: Medal card of MacDonald, Joseph
    Yorkshire Light Infantry 18873 Private
    Date:  1914-1920
    the medal card includes a correction for the surname to McDonald


    Secondly: thank you for this; it looks very promising!


    Name:  Joseph MacDonald
    Rank:  Pte
    Record Type:   Disability
    Residence Place:       Wakefield
    Military Service Region:       North East, England
    Service Number:        18873
    Corps, Regiment or Unit:       King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry >>> Service Branch:        Military (Army)
    Title: WWI Pension Record Cards and Ledgers
    Description:   PRC Ledgers
    Reference Number:      4/MM/No.2743 and Reference Number: 4/MM/No.1962 >>>
    This may be his birth from GRO
    MACDONNALD, JOSEPH     RODGERS
    GRO Reference: 1891  J Quarter in WAKEFIELD  Volume 09C  Page 25


    I will look into that too, thanks.

    John

    Sorry, I'll not bother with your posts any more then.


    To answer an earlier question, the England and Wales 1921 census will be
    become publicly available 1 Jan 2020. It will not be released earlier,
    unlike the 1911 census (Census Act 1920) It will be available online
    early in 2022 on Findmypast, probably with an additional cost? I've not
    seen any information on whether Findmypast will have early access for
    scanning and transcribing? Once it is available, presumably Ancestry
    will start work on it?

    There is a second medal card as Joseph McDonald http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D3792574 but no
    useful information

    from https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/kings-own-yorkshire-light-infantry/
    King’s Own Yorkshire Light Infantry
    13th (Reserve) Battalion (Pioneers)
    Formed at Ripon in October 1915 from the depot companies of the 12th Bn.
    Moved initially to Harrogate and then to Gosforth in May 1916.
    1 September 1916 : absorbed into Training Reserve Battalions of 19th
    Reserve Brigade at Newcastle.
    There is then further information on the Training Reserve.

    Getting back to your original Joseph McDonald query, Have you researched
    the witnesses to the marriage? There is an outside possibility they may
    help (perhaps another soldier/friend from his home town?)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From J. P. Gilliver (John)@21:1/5 to All on Sat Nov 14 15:27:06 2020
    On Sat, 14 Nov 2020 at 10:13:50, john <john1@s145802280.onlinehome.fr>
    wrote:
    []
    Thank you for the suggestion a Thunderbird addon might exist. I've
    found one, QuoteColors TB 68. It works. And I'll be continuing with >Thunderbird 68 for a while as I rejected two other possible e-mail
    clients yesterday.

    Ah, I think the one I have notes on was called QuoteColors - possibly
    the original of the one you've found. Glad you've found it - _does_ it
    make things easier to follow for you?
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    History is not the past. It is the method we have evolved of organising our ignorance of the past. - Hilary Mantel, first Reith Lecture 2017

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From J. P. Gilliver (John)@21:1/5 to All on Sat Nov 14 15:46:50 2020
    On Sat, 14 Nov 2020 at 11:08:29, john <john1@s145802280.onlinehome.fr>
    wrote:
    []
    To answer an earlier question, the England and Wales 1921 census will
    be become publicly available 1 Jan 2020. It will not be released

    Er ... (-:

    earlier, unlike the 1911 census (Census Act 1920) It will be available

    I thought that('s early release) was something to do with the Tony Blair government responding to pressure from genealogists! I forget the
    details though.

    online early in 2022 on Findmypast, probably with an additional cost?

    Probably )-:, if precedent is anything to go by. [(-:]

    I've not seen any information on whether Findmypast will have early
    access for scanning and transcribing? Once it is available, presumably >Ancestry will start work on it?

    I'd _hope_ they both will.

    There is a second medal card as Joseph McDonald >http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D3792574 but no
    useful information

    Thanks. I'll get it anyway, for completeness.

    from
    https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-inf >antry-regiments-of-1914-1918/kings-own-yorkshire-light-infantry/

    Useful site!

    King’s Own Yorkshire Light Infantry
    13th (Reserve) Battalion (Pioneers)
    Formed at Ripon in October 1915 from the depot companies of the 12th
    Bn. Moved initially to Harrogate and then to Gosforth in May 1916.
    1 September 1916 : absorbed into Training Reserve Battalions of 19th
    Reserve Brigade at Newcastle.

    My friend (relation by marriage somewhere IIRR) had found that bit;
    she'd also corresponded with KOYLI, who'd told her they had no record of
    being at Gosforth Park. (I'd guessed that was just where he'd stayed
    while getting married.)

    There is then further information on the Training Reserve.

    Getting back to your original Joseph McDonald query, Have you
    researched the witnesses to the marriage? There is an outside
    possibility they may help (perhaps another soldier/friend from his home >town?)

    looks like this:

    in the |William Flanigan
    Presence{ Exlu
    of us, | Elizabeth Oxley

    , with William and Elizabeth's names on the printed lines, and something
    that looks like Exlu in between. (At first I thought it might be Oxley,
    but no, it's definitely an E.) The bride's father was William T.
    Flanigan, and I don't have _note_ of her having any brothers William, so
    it could be him. (I have no Oxley anywhere in my data.) [I'm happy to
    share all I have - is your email valid?] With the unusual spelling of
    Flanigan, I'd be pretty sure William is a relative of Mary; so, I fear
    there's no help there. Was a good thought though!
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    History is not the past. It is the method we have evolved of organising our ignorance of the past. - Hilary Mantel, first Reith Lecture 2017

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john@21:1/5 to All on Sat Nov 14 17:07:51 2020
    On 14/11/2020 16:27, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
    On Sat, 14 Nov 2020 at 10:13:50, john <john1@s145802280.onlinehome.fr>
    wrote:
    []
    Thank you for the suggestion a Thunderbird  addon might exist. I've
    found one, QuoteColors TB 68. It works. And I'll be continuing with
    Thunderbird 68 for a while as I rejected two other possible e-mail
    clients yesterday.

    Ah, I think the one I have notes on was called QuoteColors - possibly
    the original of the one you've found. Glad you've found it - _does_ it
    make things easier to follow for you?

    Yes, QuoteColors make everything so much clearer!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john@21:1/5 to as I on Sat Nov 14 18:13:12 2020
    On 14/11/2020 16:46, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
    On Sat, 14 Nov 2020 at 11:08:29, john <john1@s145802280.onlinehome.fr>
    wrote:
    []
    To answer an earlier question, the England and Wales 1921 census will
    be become publicly available 1 Jan 2020. It will not be released

    Er ... (-:

    Yes, 1 Jan 2022, as I wrote later


    earlier, unlike the 1911 census (Census Act 1920) It will be available

    The (Census Act 1920)


    I thought that('s early release) was something to do with the Tony Blair government responding to pressure from genealogists! I forget the
    details though.

    online early in 2022 on Findmypast, probably with an additional cost?

    Probably )-:, if precedent is anything to go by. [(-:]

    I've not seen any information on whether Findmypast will have early
    access for scanning and transcribing? Once it is available, presumably
    Ancestry will start work on it?

    I'd _hope_ they both will.

    see https://www.familyhistory.co.uk/census-records/1921-census/ for more information on release date/early release refusal

    There is a second medal card as Joseph McDonald
    http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D3792574 but no
    useful information

    Thanks. I'll get it anyway, for completeness.

    from
    https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-inf
    antry-regiments-of-1914-1918/kings-own-yorkshire-light-infantry/

    Useful site!

    King’s Own Yorkshire Light Infantry
    13th (Reserve) Battalion (Pioneers)
    Formed at Ripon in October 1915 from the depot companies of the 12th
    Bn. Moved initially to Harrogate and then to Gosforth in May 1916.
    1 September 1916 : absorbed into Training Reserve Battalions of 19th
    Reserve Brigade at Newcastle.

    My friend (relation by marriage somewhere IIRR) had found that bit;
    she'd also corresponded with KOYLI, who'd told her they had no record of being at Gosforth Park. (I'd guessed that was just where he'd stayed
    while getting married.)

    There are references to links/consolidations with the Durham Light
    Infantry; the DLI Fenham Barracks were the other side of the Town Moor
    from Gosforth. I suspect there were camps on the Town Moor.


    There is then further information on the Training Reserve.

    Getting back to your original Joseph McDonald query, Have you
    researched the witnesses to the marriage? There is an outside
    possibility they may help (perhaps another soldier/friend from his
    home town?)

    looks like this:

     in the |William Flanigan
    Presence{      Exlu
     of us, |  Elizabeth Oxley

    , with William and Elizabeth's names on the printed lines, and something that looks like Exlu in between. (At first I thought it might be Oxley,
    but no, it's definitely an E.) The bride's father was William T.
    Flanigan, and I don't have _note_ of her having any brothers William, so
    it could be him. (I have no Oxley anywhere in my data.) [I'm happy to
    share all I have - is your email valid?] With the unusual spelling of Flanigan, I'd be pretty sure William is a relative of Mary; so, I fear there's no help there. Was a good thought though!

    I wouldn't pay too much attention to the Flanigan spelling. It looks as
    though she was a Flanagan in 1901 census.

    It looks as though Elizabeth Oxley was probably a friend of Mary

    Yes, my e-mail is valid.

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  • From J. P. Gilliver (John)@21:1/5 to All on Tue Nov 17 00:12:03 2020
    On Sat, 14 Nov 2020 at 11:08:29, john <john1@s145802280.onlinehome.fr>
    wrote:
    []
    There is a second medal card as Joseph McDonald >http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D3792574 but no
    useful information

    Well, compared to the other card, it adds the [19]15 star, and tells me
    that he first served in France, and starting 1915-8-26.
    []
    So thanks for that.
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    Everyone learns from science. It all depends how you use the knowledge. - "Gil Grissom" (CSI).

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