• 1921: not at these prices!

    From J. P. Gilliver (John)@21:1/5 to All on Wed Oct 27 11:55:10 2021
    From https://www.findmypast.co.uk/1921-census?utm_source=fmp&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=1921&utm_content=UK+1921+Excite&utm_term=404113385&M_BT=67
    344807399266
    :
    "How much will the census cost?
    2.50 for every record transcript and 3.50 for every original record
    image.
    ...
    [Even] For all 12-month Pro subscribers, there will be a 10% discount on
    any 1921 Census purchases.
    ...
    Is there any way I can view the 1921 Census for free?

    Anyone will be able to view the images of the 1921 Census of England and
    Wales for free online at The National Archives upon release on 6 January
    2022 (00:01 GMT). The original paper census returns will not be
    available in the reading rooms. The paper records will be kept secure by
    The National Archives at their offsite storage facility and readers at
    The National Archives at Kew will be directed to the digital version."

    IMO the word "online" is misleading, though probably not intentionally
    so: from the rest of the words I've quoted, I presume it means "on a
    computer screen if you physically visit TNA" (which is not what "online" normally means, which is "from an internet connection").

    I suppose we should welcome the release, and I'm not in any way
    minimising the cost of the exercise - but to me these _are_ steep
    prices, and I'm unlikely to find the 1921 breaks down any "brick walls"
    for my own tree. It might for some, though.
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    I'm not a great fan of new technology. I don't change my phone every time the bell rings - Sir David Attenborough, RT 2016/1/23-29

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  • From john@21:1/5 to All on Thu Oct 28 13:11:55 2021
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  • From Nigel Reed@21:1/5 to G6JPG@255soft.uk on Thu Nov 11 04:33:47 2021
    On Wed, 27 Oct 2021 11:55:10 +0100
    "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:


    Is there any way I can view the 1921 Census for free?

    Anyone will be able to view the images of the 1921 Census of England
    and Wales for free online at The National Archives upon release on 6
    January 2022 (00:01 GMT). The original paper census returns will not
    be available in the reading rooms. The paper records will be kept
    secure by The National Archives at their offsite storage facility and
    readers at The National Archives at Kew will be directed to the
    digital version."

    I love this bit:
    "The paper records will be kept secure by The National Archives at their offsite storage facility and readers at The National Archives at Kew
    will be directed to the digital version. This is to ensure the
    preservation of the paper records for years to come."

    Ok...so the records will be kept safe, but nobody can actually see
    them, so which future generations are going to be able to see them?
    Aren't we the future generation?

    Love these sites, where they want all of our information for free but
    to get anything back costs a substantial amount.




    --
    End Of The Line BBS - Plano, TX
    telnet endofthelinebbs.com 23

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  • From Peter Johnson@21:1/5 to sysop@endofthelinebbs.com on Thu Nov 11 14:02:59 2021
    On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 04:33:47 -0600, Nigel Reed
    <sysop@endofthelinebbs.com> wrote:


    I love this bit:
    "The paper records will be kept secure by The National Archives at their >offsite storage facility and readers at The National Archives at Kew
    will be directed to the digital version. This is to ensure the
    preservation of the paper records for years to come."

    Ok...so the records will be kept safe, but nobody can actually see
    them, so which future generations are going to be able to see them?
    Aren't we the future generation?


    The offsite storage facility is a salt mine in Cheshire. I had had
    documents, not census, retrieved from it. I would expect that if a
    good case were made census documents would be retrieved. For example
    the earlier digitised censuses were created from poor quality
    microfilm, which is OK in most cases but a sight of the original might sometimes reveal detail not captured by the microfilm.

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  • From Charles Ellson@21:1/5 to peter@parksidewood.nospam on Fri Nov 12 00:25:52 2021
    On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 14:02:59 +0000, Peter Johnson
    <peter@parksidewood.nospam> wrote:

    On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 04:33:47 -0600, Nigel Reed
    <sysop@endofthelinebbs.com> wrote:


    I love this bit:
    "The paper records will be kept secure by The National Archives at their >>offsite storage facility and readers at The National Archives at Kew
    will be directed to the digital version. This is to ensure the
    preservation of the paper records for years to come."

    Ok...so the records will be kept safe, but nobody can actually see
    them, so which future generations are going to be able to see them?
    Aren't we the future generation?


    The offsite storage facility is a salt mine in Cheshire. I had had
    documents, not census, retrieved from it. I would expect that if a
    good case were made census documents would be retrieved. For example
    the earlier digitised censuses were created from poor quality
    microfilm, which is OK in most cases but a sight of the original might >sometimes reveal detail not captured by the microfilm.

    Many of those have been dealt with by being re-filmed (or scanned?) in
    colour, IME usually the 1841 census.

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  • From Peter Johnson@21:1/5 to charlesellson@btinternet.com on Fri Nov 12 15:30:32 2021
    On Fri, 12 Nov 2021 00:25:52 +0000, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:

    On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 14:02:59 +0000, Peter Johnson
    <peter@parksidewood.nospam> wrote:


    The offsite storage facility is a salt mine in Cheshire. I had had >>documents, not census, retrieved from it. I would expect that if a
    good case were made census documents would be retrieved. For example
    the earlier digitised censuses were created from poor quality
    microfilm, which is OK in most cases but a sight of the original might >>sometimes reveal detail not captured by the microfilm.

    Many of those have been dealt with by being re-filmed (or scanned?) in >colour, IME usually the 1841 census.

    Only seen the 1911 census in colour, on Ancestry. Having the others
    rescanned would be a big improvement.

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  • From J. P. Gilliver (John)@21:1/5 to charlesellson@btinternet.com on Fri Nov 12 20:55:17 2021
    On Fri, 12 Nov 2021 at 00:25:52, Charles Ellson
    <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote (my responses usually follow points raised):
    On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 14:02:59 +0000, Peter Johnson
    <peter@parksidewood.nospam> wrote:

    On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 04:33:47 -0600, Nigel Reed
    <sysop@endofthelinebbs.com> wrote:


    I love this bit:
    "The paper records will be kept secure by The National Archives at their >>>offsite storage facility and readers at The National Archives at Kew
    will be directed to the digital version. This is to ensure the >>>preservation of the paper records for years to come."

    Ok...so the records will be kept safe, but nobody can actually see
    them, so which future generations are going to be able to see them? >>>Aren't we the future generation?

    OK, it's flowery language, but makes sense to me: I interpret it as
    meaning they think the current scanning process is, to within reasonable limits, the best that can be achieved with current technology, but they
    are keeping the originals against future improvements. And also in case
    they find errors (I can only think of omissions, or undetected scanning
    errors) in the current scans.

    The offsite storage facility is a salt mine in Cheshire. I had had >>documents, not census, retrieved from it. I would expect that if a
    good case were made census documents would be retrieved. For example

    Indeed.

    the earlier digitised censuses were created from poor quality
    microfilm, which is OK in most cases but a sight of the original might >>sometimes reveal detail not captured by the microfilm.

    Many of those have been dealt with by being re-filmed (or scanned?) in >colour, IME usually the 1841 census.

    Yes, I remember the first time I came across a colour version of an 1841
    one, I found it gorgeous.

    (Given it was mostly done in pencil - "with the pencil provided", as it
    says in the instructions - it's amazing it's still legible at all.)
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    "Knowledge isnt elitist - that's rubbish! Why are we embarrassed by the idea that people know things? It's not a conspiracy against the ignorant. Knowing things is good!" - Jeremy Paxman, RT 14-20 August 2010

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  • From J. P. Gilliver (John)@21:1/5 to peter@parksidewood.nospam on Fri Nov 12 21:03:49 2021
    On Fri, 12 Nov 2021 at 15:30:32, Peter Johnson
    <peter@parksidewood.nospam> wrote (my responses usually follow points
    raised):
    On Fri, 12 Nov 2021 00:25:52 +0000, Charles Ellson ><charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
    []
    Many of those have been dealt with by being re-filmed (or scanned?) in >>colour, IME usually the 1841 census.

    Only seen the 1911 census in colour, on Ancestry. Having the others
    rescanned would be a big improvement.

    (I think FMP have it thus too - in fact I think they had it first: I
    think it was they who actually scanned it.) I think the 1911 was done in
    colour from the start, whereas the others - I think - mostly only appear
    in colour where for whatever reason someone has decided they need
    re-scanning - presumably the microfilm isn't legible, either judged so
    at original scanning or someone's asked for it to be re-scanned. I think
    it's nearly always been the 1841, though I can remember seeing (so I
    have somewhere) one of the later ones that had rotted, so is very red
    (the colour of the fungus or whatever), so must have been done in
    colour.
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    "Knowledge isnt elitist - that's rubbish! Why are we embarrassed by the idea that people know things? It's not a conspiracy against the ignorant. Knowing things is good!" - Jeremy Paxman, RT 14-20 August 2010

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