• How To Obtain Copies of Marriage Contracts (Not Drouin Marriage Records

    From jordanvandenberg@hotmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 26 17:44:41 2016
    Hello Newsgroup,
    I was wondering if anyone knew how to obtain scans or photocopies of New France marriage contracts. They apparently are not the same as the Drouin Marriage records. The two marriage contracts I am looking for are:

    Paul (Nathaniel) Hotesse (Otis) & Marie-Anne Caron 22 SEP 1728 in Montreal

    Francoise-Rose Otis & Jean Poitevin 29 OCT 1696 in Beauport

    Paul Hotesse and Francoise-Rose Otis are siblings and both were captives brought from New England during raids.

    Apparently these two marriage contracts have some additional information that is not in the Drouin marriage record that I have seen referred to in articles about the individuals.

    Any information about how to obtain copies of these two marriage contracts would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Jordan.

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  • From Mardon Erbland@21:1/5 to jordanva...@hotmail.com on Wed Jan 27 05:32:27 2016
    On Tuesday, January 26, 2016 at 10:14:42 PM UTC-3:30, jordanva...@hotmail.com wrote:
    Hello Newsgroup,
    I was wondering if anyone knew how to obtain scans or photocopies of New France marriage contracts. They apparently are not the same as the Drouin Marriage records. The two marriage contracts I am looking for are:

    Paul (Nathaniel) Hotesse (Otis) & Marie-Anne Caron 22 SEP 1728 in Montreal

    Francoise-Rose Otis & Jean Poitevin 29 OCT 1696 in Beauport

    Paul Hotesse and Francoise-Rose Otis are siblings and both were captives brought from New England during raids.

    Apparently these two marriage contracts have some additional information that is not in the Drouin marriage record that I have seen referred to in articles about the individuals.

    Any information about how to obtain copies of these two marriage contracts would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Jordan.

    I do not know about Drouin Marriage records versus marriage contracts but I do know that both of the marriages you list are part of the "Genealogy of the French in North America" database prepared and sold by Denis Beauregard. See here for more info:
    http://www.francogene.com/genealogy/

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  • From jordanvandenberg@hotmail.com@21:1/5 to Mardon Erbland on Wed Jan 27 09:10:56 2016
    On Wednesday, January 27, 2016 at 8:32:27 AM UTC-5, Mardon Erbland wrote:
    On Tuesday, January 26, 2016 at 10:14:42 PM UTC-3:30, jordanva...@hotmail.com wrote:
    Hello Newsgroup,
    I was wondering if anyone knew how to obtain scans or photocopies of New France marriage contracts. They apparently are not the same as the Drouin Marriage records. The two marriage contracts I am looking for are:

    Paul (Nathaniel) Hotesse (Otis) & Marie-Anne Caron 22 SEP 1728 in Montreal

    Francoise-Rose Otis & Jean Poitevin 29 OCT 1696 in Beauport

    Paul Hotesse and Francoise-Rose Otis are siblings and both were captives brought from New England during raids.

    Apparently these two marriage contracts have some additional information that is not in the Drouin marriage record that I have seen referred to in articles about the individuals.

    Any information about how to obtain copies of these two marriage contracts would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Jordan.

    I do not know about Drouin Marriage records versus marriage contracts but I do know that both of the marriages you list are part of the "Genealogy of the French in North America" database prepared and sold by Denis Beauregard. See here for more info:
    http://www.francogene.com/genealogy/

    Thanks Mardon for the reply.

    Denis has done a great deal to help people researching their French roots in North America. His site is amazing.
    Does his database have original copies of the marriage contracts? I have thought about purchasing it, but curious as to what it includes. There are some ancestors of French heritage that my wife has that were born in the United States that ended up in
    Ontario that we have hit a roadblock on, and was curious if they would be in the database.

    In regards to the marriage contracts I am after, there are apparently some differences in what is stated in the contracts as opposed to the Drouin records according to some publications I have read. I was hoping to obtain copies of the primary resource
    so that I could see for myself the marriage contract and add them to my files on the individuals.

    Thanks again,
    Jordan.

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  • From jordanvandenberg@hotmail.com@21:1/5 to jordanva...@hotmail.com on Thu Jan 28 05:43:50 2016
    On Tuesday, January 26, 2016 at 8:44:42 PM UTC-5, jordanva...@hotmail.com wrote:
    Hello Newsgroup,
    I was wondering if anyone knew how to obtain scans or photocopies of New France marriage contracts. They apparently are not the same as the Drouin Marriage records. The two marriage contracts I am looking for are:

    Paul (Nathaniel) Hotesse (Otis) & Marie-Anne Caron 22 SEP 1728 in Montreal

    Francoise-Rose Otis & Jean Poitevin 29 OCT 1696 in Beauport

    Paul Hotesse and Francoise-Rose Otis are siblings and both were captives brought from New England during raids.

    Apparently these two marriage contracts have some additional information that is not in the Drouin marriage record that I have seen referred to in articles about the individuals.

    Any information about how to obtain copies of these two marriage contracts would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Jordan.

    Lisa,
    Thanks so much for the information on where to possibly find these records, and the time you spent finding it. I am going to look into seeing if they can determine whether the records I am after are in the Parchemin database.
    Thanks again :)
    Jordan.

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  • From Lisa Lepore via@21:1/5 to jordanvandenberg on Thu Jan 28 01:35:20 2016
    To: gen-fr@rootsweb.com

    I believe you are looking for the Notarial Records.

    There is a good explanation here at the family search website. https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Quebec_Notarial_Records

    They have some on line at their site.

    On the website of the Biblioteque et Archives of Quebec, they have many on
    line
    http://bibnum2.banq.qc.ca/bna/notaires/

    You need to search by notaire though, and not by the name of the person.

    I can say that this list does not include the notaires that my family used
    in Montreal,
    1748 & 1767

    Hodiesne, G. (1740-1764)

    Grisé dit Villefranche, A. (1756-1785)

    but I think it's a work in progress.


    Although it doesn't cover your time frame, this site is excellent for Quebec Genealogy.

    https://www.genealogiequebec.com/en/tools

    This page describes their holdings. There are various subscription options.



    Hope this helps some,
    Lisa
    lisa.lepore2@gmail.com



    -----Original Message-----
    From: gen-fr-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:gen-fr-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of jordanvandenberg via
    Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 8:45 PM
    To: gen-fr@rootsweb.com
    Subject: How To Obtain Copies of Marriage Contracts (Not Drouin Marriage Records) For Paul Hotesse (Otis) & Francoise-Rose Otis

    Hello Newsgroup,
    I was wondering if anyone knew how to obtain scans or photocopies of New
    France marriage contracts. They apparently are not the same as the Drouin Marriage records. The two marriage contracts I am looking for are:

    Paul (Nathaniel) Hotesse (Otis) & Marie-Anne Caron 22 SEP 1728 in Montreal

    Francoise-Rose Otis & Jean Poitevin 29 OCT 1696 in Beauport

    Paul Hotesse and Francoise-Rose Otis are siblings and both were captives brought from New England during raids.

    Apparently these two marriage contracts have some additional information
    that is not in the Drouin marriage record that I have seen referred to in articles about the individuals.

    Any information about how to obtain copies of these two marriage contracts would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Jordan.

    -------------------------------
    To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-FR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
    in the subject and the body of the message

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  • From Lisa Lepore via@21:1/5 to jordanvandenberg on Thu Jan 28 02:21:55 2016
    To: gen-fr@rootsweb.com

    Jordan,

    After studying the BANQ website more carefully, I think what you want is the Parchemin database. That will cover your time frame. Looks like it is available
    remotely to people with a library card http://numerique.banq.qc.ca/ressources/details/6098

    You would have to contact them to see if they look things up for a fee.

    You can also contact the French Genealogy Society of New Hampshire in Manchester. They used to do searches for a fee.

    This is just an index, though. After you find what you want, you would
    need to look up the record on microfilm.

    Lisa
    lisa.lepore2@gmail.com



    -----Original Message-----
    From: gen-fr-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:gen-fr-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of jordanvandenberg via
    Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 8:45 PM
    To: gen-fr@rootsweb.com
    Subject: How To Obtain Copies of Marriage Contracts (Not Drouin Marriage Records) For Paul Hotesse (Otis) & Francoise-Rose Otis

    Hello Newsgroup,
    I was wondering if anyone knew how to obtain scans or photocopies of New
    France marriage contracts. They apparently are not the same as the Drouin Marriage records. The two marriage contracts I am looking for are:

    Paul (Nathaniel) Hotesse (Otis) & Marie-Anne Caron 22 SEP 1728 in Montreal

    Francoise-Rose Otis & Jean Poitevin 29 OCT 1696 in Beauport

    Paul Hotesse and Francoise-Rose Otis are siblings and both were captives brought from New England during raids.

    Apparently these two marriage contracts have some additional information
    that is not in the Drouin marriage record that I have seen referred to in articles about the individuals.

    Any information about how to obtain copies of these two marriage contracts would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Jordan.

    -------------------------------
    To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-FR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
    in the subject and the body of the message

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  • From jordanvandenberg@hotmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Tue Feb 2 09:26:49 2016
    Lisa,
    Thanks so much. This is a big help.
    Jordan :)

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  • From Lisa Lepore via@21:1/5 to All on Mon Feb 1 15:50:16 2016
    To: jordanvandenberg@hotmail.com (jordanvandenberg)

    Jordan,

    Coincidentally, I saw this article today in Vita Brevis, the blog of the New England Historical & Genealogy Society in Boston, MA http://vita-brevis.org/2016/02/quebec-notarial-records/#more-5763

    Apparently, they have Notarial records also, so this may be some help to you
    as well.

    Lisa
    lisa.lepore2@gmail.com


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Lisa Lepore [mailto:lisa.lepore2@gmail.com]
    Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2016 2:22 AM
    To: 'jordanvandenberg'; 'gen-fr@rootsweb.com'
    Subject: RE: How To Obtain Copies of Marriage Contracts (Not Drouin Marriage Records) For Paul Hotesse (Otis) & Francoise-Rose Otis

    Jordan,

    After studying the BANQ website more carefully, I think what you want is the Parchemin database. That will cover your time frame. Looks like it is available remotely to people with a library card http://numerique.banq.qc.ca/ressources/details/6098

    You would have to contact them to see if they look things up for a fee.

    You can also contact the French Genealogy Society of New Hampshire in Manchester. They used to do searches for a fee.

    This is just an index, though. After you find what you want, you would
    need to look up the record on microfilm.

    Lisa
    lisa.lepore2@gmail.com



    -----Original Message-----
    From: gen-fr-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:gen-fr-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of jordanvandenberg via
    Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 8:45 PM
    To: gen-fr@rootsweb.com
    Subject: How To Obtain Copies of Marriage Contracts (Not Drouin Marriage Records) For Paul Hotesse (Otis) & Francoise-Rose Otis

    Hello Newsgroup,
    I was wondering if anyone knew how to obtain scans or photocopies of New
    France marriage contracts. They apparently are not the same as the Drouin Marriage records. The two marriage contracts I am looking for are:

    Paul (Nathaniel) Hotesse (Otis) & Marie-Anne Caron 22 SEP 1728 in Montreal

    Francoise-Rose Otis & Jean Poitevin 29 OCT 1696 in Beauport

    Paul Hotesse and Francoise-Rose Otis are siblings and both were captives brought from New England during raids.

    Apparently these two marriage contracts have some additional information
    that is not in the Drouin marriage record that I have seen referred to in articles about the individuals.

    Any information about how to obtain copies of these two marriage contracts would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Jordan.

    -------------------------------
    To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-FR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
    in the subject and the body of the message

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  • From Denis Beauregard@21:1/5 to All on Wed Feb 3 10:36:14 2016
    On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 17:44:41 -0800 (PST), jordanvandenberg@hotmail.com
    wrote in soc.genealogy.french:

    Hello Newsgroup,
    I was wondering if anyone knew how to obtain scans or photocopies of New France marriage contracts. They apparently are not the same as the Drouin Marriage records. The two marriage contracts I am looking for are:

    Paul (Nathaniel) Hotesse (Otis) & Marie-Anne Caron 22 SEP 1728 in Montreal

    Francoise-Rose Otis & Jean Poitevin 29 OCT 1696 in Beauport

    Paul Hotesse and Francoise-Rose Otis are siblings and both were captives brought from New England during raids.

    Apparently these two marriage contracts have some additional information that is not in the Drouin marriage record that I have seen referred to in articles about the individuals.

    Any information about how to obtain copies of these two marriage contracts would be greatly appreciated.

    The important thing to know about that :

    a marriage contract and a marriage record are 2 different documents
    having different purposes, rules and ... author (except in the few
    cases where the contract was written by a priest).

    The marriage contract is a legal document with the agreements between
    2 persons. It doesn't make them married however and is, in theory,
    "activated" by a wedding.

    In many cases, the marriage record is lost (or even was not made) or
    not complete, and then, the contract replaces the missing parts. Even
    if the marriage record is complete, the contract is a good document
    to find.

    The original Drouin collection (not the copy at ancestry but the one
    at www.genealogiequebec.com) has a section with some notary records,
    but it is far from being complete. Parchemin is an index of notary
    records, not available online but available in some libraries or
    genealogical societies. It has summaries of records, not their
    content. SGCF has a database with transcripted notary records and
    other societies may have this kind of data too. Web site of Quebec
    archives (www.banq.qc.ca) may have some of them online (not sure).
    So, there are many tools to find copies.

    Also, some (not all) notaries are on microfilms and you may try to
    get a copy by writting to Quebec archives. The notary records are in
    ONE location (except when he practiced in 2 places) but the microfilms
    can be at more places. In some cases, archives will send you a copy
    but keep in mind it is handwritten and in French during the French
    period. SGCF has some typewritten copies (you have to inquire to see
    if they have the copy you want and the cost). Other genealogical
    societies may offer the same service too.

    Concerning my own database, I use Parchemin to complete some lines
    when the church records are not enough. I indicate the marriage
    contract up to 1789 (1790 will be completed in my next release) but
    for obvious reasons, there is no copy of notary records in my
    database.

    For your information, images of the notary records in the Drouin
    collection need over 60 GB for storage for more than 160,000 images.


    Denis

    --
    Denis Beauregard - généalogiste émérite (FQSG)
    Les Français d'Amérique du Nord - www.francogene.com/genealogie--quebec/ French in North America before 1722 - www.francogene.com/quebec--genealogy/
    Sur cédérom à 1785 - On CD-ROM to 1785

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  • From jordanvandenberg@hotmail.com@21:1/5 to jordanva...@hotmail.com on Wed Feb 3 10:17:37 2016
    On Tuesday, January 26, 2016 at 8:44:42 PM UTC-5, jordanva...@hotmail.com wrote:
    Hello Newsgroup,
    I was wondering if anyone knew how to obtain scans or photocopies of New France marriage contracts. They apparently are not the same as the Drouin Marriage records. The two marriage contracts I am looking for are:

    Paul (Nathaniel) Hotesse (Otis) & Marie-Anne Caron 22 SEP 1728 in Montreal

    Francoise-Rose Otis & Jean Poitevin 29 OCT 1696 in Beauport

    Paul Hotesse and Francoise-Rose Otis are siblings and both were captives brought from New England during raids.

    Apparently these two marriage contracts have some additional information that is not in the Drouin marriage record that I have seen referred to in articles about the individuals.

    Any information about how to obtain copies of these two marriage contracts would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Jordan.

    Hi Denis
    Thanks for the reply to my post. Your site is a fantastic resource for those researching their French Canadian ancestry, and your database sounds amazing.
    When researching my wife's family history we were very intrigued when we discovered that she had some ancestors that were New England captives that were brought as children by the Natives to New France, and that they started their own families there.
    It was of further interest to us that two of these individuals were siblings (Paul Hotesse and Francoise-Rose Otis), and that they not only have this incredible story of their captivity, but also that they themselves are French Canadian gateway ancestors
    to royalty via their grandmother Rose Stoughton.
    I was wondering Denis if the records that I seek which are described below are something that would likely be on the www.genealogiequebec.com website, or if you knew exactly what these records would be classified as. Is the term "marriage contract" that
    I am using the correct one in trying to locate them.
    There were conflicting theories about the parentage of Francoise-Rose Otis, which apparently was solved by the research in the late-1980s by Sister Anette Potvin. In an article I came across written in 1989, the story of this discovery is told, and in
    the article the definitive piece of evidence mentioned is a marriage contract between Francoise-Rose Otis and Jean Poitevin, sieur de Lincot. I have quoted the section of the article below that describes the information in the contract.

    "In early January of this year, Sister Annette Potvin wrote to Robert Whitehouse, president of Dover's Northam Colonists, the city's historical society. Could he help her, she asked, trace the parentage of her captive English forebear, Rose Otis of Dover,
    who became Francoise Rozotty on the Canadian records? Whitehouse sent the letter on to this writer whom he has helped for the past nine years in a study of several members of the Otis family and the Abenaki raid on Dover. An examination of nine years
    of records revealed the expected: Material was available on other members of the Otis family, but research had not turned up much on Francoise Rozotty. What we had, we mailed off to Edmonton, but it did not adequately address Sister Potvin's question.
    Sister Potvin continued her study of the old Canadian records. Then in mid- February --fast as historical research usually goes -- came a letter from her, dated the 12th of the month. Enclosed were a photocopy and a typed version of an until then unknown,
    French language, marriage contract -- not well known and already heavily pored over marriage certificate -- between Jean Poitevin and Francoise Rozotty, dated three days before their marriage in 1696 and spelling the rest of Francoise's name, not as "
    Rozotty" but clearly as "Rosotis." But, there was more. A part of that marriage contract, in translation reads: "Francoise Rosotis, daughter of deceased Stinodis, and of deceased Mary Otos, her father and mother, of English birth in the environs of
    Boston...." After three hundred years, yet another bit of that 1689 raid on Dover had fallen into place. The parental identity of the captive Rose Otis, long lost to history, was now on the record. The years of speculation were gone. It was a moment that
    Alice Baker and Emma Coleman would enjoy. Sister Potvin, like any cautious researcher, wrote: "Now, if this is correct, if Francoise's mother is Mary, then Stinodis may be Stephen (Steven) Otis. We should be aware that for the French who did not know
    English, names like Steven and Rose Otis were mysteries. "If Francoise said that her father's name were Steven, the (French) Notary (who drew up the marriage contract) wrote what sounded to him as Stin. In French the "i" is pronounced like the English "e"
    . He forgot or missed the "v" but the "n" standing for "en" (in Steven), is there. Such mispellings of English names were not uncommon among French "notaires", village priests and other drafters of official documents. The name "Otis", for instance, has
    had no less than eight major variations on the French records. As Emma Coleman listed them: Otheys, Oteys, Otesse, Autes, Hautesse, Hotesse, Rozotty, and Thys. We may now add: Odis and Otos. To encounter "Steven Otis" as "Stinodis," (pronounced Stee en
    odis, with a French inflection) should therefore come as no surprise. The fact the Steven's name in the marriage contract is associated with the name of his wife, "Mary Otos," makes the conclusion that these two Doverites were Francoise's parents,
    almost inescapeable. Coleman said of her work with Alice Baker that "the phonetic spelling of the (French) registrars (of English names) made guessing imperative." There is not much to guess at here; it is all quite clear. Many New Englanders didn't
    spell their own names as well. Undoubledly Sister Potvin's analysis, despite her caution, is correct. Francoise Rozotty - or Rose Otis - was the 11-year-old daughter of Richard Otis Senior's son Steven and Steven's wife, Mary Pitman Otis of Durham, when
    she was taken captive in this first assault of the first of the French and Indian wars. The original Rose Otis - a refugee from war-torn England, and the first wife of the Dover blacksmith - was her grandmother. Six years after Francoise's death, the
    name of the Dover captive showed once again on the Canadian records. On November 14, 1735, as Sister Potvin notes in her February 12 letter, "Michel Potvin, son of Jean Poitevin and Rose Otice" married at Petite Riviere St. Francois."

    The full article can be found on the Nos-Origines site via the following link:

    http://nosorigines.qc.ca/biography.aspx?name=Otis_Francoise-Rose&id=6843

    I would very much like to obtain a scan or photocopy of the contract so that I can see for myself what the article is describing.
    Apparently in the marriage contract of Paul Hotesse there is also additional information provided that confirms the Paul Hotesse that married Marie-Anne Caron was the same individual that married Madeleine Toupin dit Dussaud. I read this in an excerpt of
    a book entitled: New England Captives Carried to Between 1677 and 1760...by Emma Lewis Coleman. The link to pages 161-162 which describe the additional information is below.

    https://books.google.ca/books?id=UoBIBs9HiW8C&pg=PA161&lpg=PA161&dq=%22Paul+hotesse%22&source=bl&ots=76FJ1bYF0k&sig=c7edh52uU2GMcHu5gE3LAlwMJ7U&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjYrpm0ldzKAhWptYMKHap3COgQ6AEIGzAA#v=onepage&q=%22Paul%20hotesse%22&f=false

    This is significant, because on his Drouin marriage record to Madeleine Toupin dit Dussaud his parents are listed as Stephen Otis and Mary Pittman, whereas on his marriage record to Marie-Anne Caron they are listed as Joseph and Louise Harel. The
    information found in the link describes why there was a discrepancy in the parentage and the link to his 2nd wife. Again I would like to see the described record for myself to see if I interpret it the same way.

    Denis, any further insight into the matter than has already been graciously provided by yourself, Lisa Lepore and Mardon Erbland would be welcomed and appreciated.

    Thanks so much,
    Jordan.

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  • From Joe Makowiec@21:1/5 to Denis Beauregard on Wed Feb 3 21:58:56 2016
    On 03 Feb 2016 in soc.genealogy.french, Denis Beauregard wrote:

    a marriage contract and a marriage record are 2 different documents
    having different purposes, rules and ... author (except in the few
    cases where the contract was written by a priest).

    The marriage contract is a legal document with the agreements between
    2 persons. It doesn't make them married however and is, in theory, "activated" by a wedding.

    [snip]

    Was this a French custom? Or would Irish families living in French jurisdictions also obtain a contract? (My wife has Irish ancestors
    living for a generation or two in Montréal.)

    --
    Joe Makowiec
    http://makowiec.org/
    Email: http://makowiec.org/contact/?Joe
    Usenet Improvement Project: http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/

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  • From Denis Beauregard@21:1/5 to All on Wed Feb 3 14:31:08 2016
    On Wed, 3 Feb 2016 10:17:37 -0800 (PST), jordanvandenberg@hotmail.com
    wrote in soc.genealogy.french:

    On Tuesday, January 26, 2016 at 8:44:42 PM UTC-5, jordanva...@hotmail.com wrote:
    Hello Newsgroup,
    I was wondering if anyone knew how to obtain scans or photocopies of New France marriage contracts. They apparently are not the same as the Drouin Marriage records. The two marriage contracts I am looking for are:

    Paul (Nathaniel) Hotesse (Otis) & Marie-Anne Caron 22 SEP 1728 in Montreal >>
    Francoise-Rose Otis & Jean Poitevin 29 OCT 1696 in Beauport

    Paul Hotesse and Francoise-Rose Otis are siblings and both were captives brought from New England during raids.

    Apparently these two marriage contracts have some additional information that is not in the Drouin marriage record that I have seen referred to in articles about the individuals.

    Any information about how to obtain copies of these two marriage contracts would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Jordan.

    Hi Denis
    Thanks for the reply to my post. Your site is a fantastic resource for those researching their French Canadian ancestry, and your database sounds amazing.
    When researching my wife's family history we were very intrigued when we discovered that she had some ancestors that were New England captives that were brought as children by the Natives to New France, and that they started their own families there.
    It was of further interest to us that two of these individuals were siblings (Paul Hotesse and Francoise-Rose Otis), and that they not only have this incredible story of their captivity, but also that they themselves are French Canadian gateway
    ancestors to royalty via their grandmother Rose Stoughton.
    I was wondering Denis if the records that I seek which are described below are something that would likely be on the www.genealogiequebec.com website, or if you knew exactly what these records would be classified as. Is the term "marriage contract" that
    I am using the correct one in trying to locate them.
    There were conflicting theories about the parentage of Francoise-Rose Otis, which apparently was solved by the research in the late-1980s by Sister Anette Potvin. In an article I came across written in 1989, the story of this discovery is told, and in
    the article the definitive piece of evidence mentioned is a marriage contract between Francoise-Rose Otis and Jean Poitevin, sieur de Lincot. I have quoted the section of the article below that describes the information in the contract.

    "In early January of this year, Sister Annette Potvin wrote to Robert Whitehouse, president of Dover's Northam Colonists, the city's historical society. Could he help her, she asked, trace the parentage of her captive English forebear, Rose Otis of
    Dover, who became Francoise Rozotty on the Canadian records? Whitehouse sent the
    letter on to this writer whom he has helped for the past nine years in a study of several members of the Otis family and the Abenaki raid on Dover. An examination of nine years of records revealed the expected: Material was available on other members of
    the Otis family, but research had not turned up much on Francoise Rozotty. What we had, we mailed off to Edmonton, but it did not adequately address Sister Potvin's question. Sister Potvin continued her study of the old Canadian records. Then in mid- February --fast as historical research usually goes -- came a letter from her,
    dated the 12th of the month. Enclosed were a photocopy and a typed version of an
    until then unknown, French language, marriage contract -- not well known and already heavily pored over marriage certificate -- between Jean Poitevin and Francoise Rozotty, dated three days before their marriage in 1696 and spelling the rest of
    Francoise's name, not as "Rozotty" but clearly as "Rosotis." But, there was more. A
    part of that marriage contract, in translation reads: "Francoise Rosotis, daughter of deceased Stinodis, and of deceased Mary Otos, her father and mother, of English birth in the environs of Boston...." After three hundred years, yet another bit of that
    1689 raid on Dover had fallen into place. The parental identity of the captive Rose Otis, long lost to history, was now on the record. The years of speculation were gone. It was a moment that Alice Baker and Emma Coleman would enjoy. Sister Potvin, like any cautious researcher, wrote: "Now, if this is correct, if Francoise's
    mother is Mary, then Stinodis may be Stephen (Steven) Otis. We should be aware that
    for the French who did not know English, names like Steven and Rose Otis were mysteries. "If Francoise said that her father's name were Steven, the (French) Notary (who drew up the marriage contract) wrote what sounded to him as Stin. In French the "i"
    is pronounced like the English "e". He forgot or missed the "v" but the "n" standing for "en" (in Steven), is there. Such mispellings of English names were not uncommon among French "notaires", village priests and other drafters of official documents. The name "Otis", for instance, has had no less than eight major variations on
    the French records. As Emma Coleman listed them: Otheys, Oteys, Otesse, Autes, Hautesse, Hotesse, Rozotty, and Thys. We may now add: Odis and Otos. To encounter "Steven Otis" as "Stinodis," (pronounced Stee en odis, with a French inflection) should therefore come as no surprise. The fact the Steven's name in the marriage contract
    is associated with the name of his wife, "Mary Otos," makes the conclusion that >these two Doverites were Francoise's parents, almost inescapeable. Coleman said of her work with Alice Baker that "the phonetic spelling of the (French) registrars (of English names) made guessing imperative." There is not much to guess at here; it is
    all quite clear. Many New Englanders didn't spell their own names as well. Undoubledly Sister Potvin's analysis, despite her caution, is correct. Francoise Rozotty - or Rose Otis - was the 11-year-old daughter of Richard Otis Senior's son Steven and Steven's wife, Mary Pitman Otis of Durham, when she was taken captive in this
    first assault of the first of the French and Indian wars. The original Rose Otis - a refugee from war-torn England, and the first wife of the Dover blacksmith - was her grandmother. Six years after Francoise's death, the name of the Dover captive showed once again on the Canadian records. On November 14, 1735, as Sister Potvin
    notes in her February 12 letter, "Michel Potvin, son of Jean Poitevin and Rose Otice"
    married at Petite Riviere St. Francois."

    The full article can be found on the Nos-Origines site via the following link:

    http://nosorigines.qc.ca/biography.aspx?name=Otis_Francoise-Rose&id=6843

    that site is copy of other's research, so I NEVER REFER TO IT. It is
    better to find the ORIGINAL SOURCE. And I forbid anyone to copy
    anything from my site to that site.

    I would very much like to obtain a scan or photocopy of the contract so that I can see for myself what the article is describing.

    just ask to the nosorigines copier. He wants the money so give him the
    work to do...



    Apparently in the marriage contract of Paul Hotesse there is also additional information provided that confirms the Paul Hotesse that married Marie-Anne Caron was the same individual that married Madeleine Toupin dit Dussaud. I read this in an excerpt
    of a book entitled: New England Captives Carried to Between 1677 and 1760...by Emma Lewis Coleman. The link to pages 161-162 which describe the additional information is below.

    https://books.google.ca/books?id=UoBIBs9HiW8C&pg=PA161&lpg=PA161&dq=%22Paul+hotesse%22&source=bl&ots=76FJ1bYF0k&sig=c7edh52uU2GMcHu5gE3LAlwMJ7U&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjYrpm0ldzKAhWptYMKHap3COgQ6AEIGzAA#v=onepage&q=%22Paul%20hotesse%22&f=false

    This is significant, because on his Drouin marriage record to Madeleine Toupin dit Dussaud his parents are listed as Stephen Otis and Mary Pittman, whereas on his marriage record to Marie-Anne Caron they are listed as Joseph and Louise Harel. The
    information found in the link describes why there was a discrepancy in the parentage
    and the link to his 2nd wife. Again I would like to see the described record for myself to see if I interpret it the same way.

    Denis, any further insight into the matter than has already been graciously provided by yourself, Lisa Lepore and Mardon Erbland would be welcomed and appreciated.

    Thanks so much,
    Jordan.

    --
    Denis Beauregard - généalogiste émérite (FQSG)
    Les Français d'Amérique du Nord - www.francogene.com/genealogie--quebec/ French in North America before 1722 - www.francogene.com/quebec--genealogy/
    Sur cédérom à 1785 - On CD-ROM to 1785

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jordanvandenberg@hotmail.com@21:1/5 to Denis Beauregard on Wed Feb 3 12:10:48 2016
    On Wednesday, February 3, 2016 at 2:31:52 PM UTC-5, Denis Beauregard wrote:
    On Wed, 3 Feb 2016 10:17:37 -0800 (PST), jordanvandenberg@hotmail.com
    wrote in soc.genealogy.french:

    On Tuesday, January 26, 2016 at 8:44:42 PM UTC-5, jordanva...@hotmail.com wrote:
    Hello Newsgroup,
    I was wondering if anyone knew how to obtain scans or photocopies of New France marriage contracts. They apparently are not the same as the Drouin Marriage records. The two marriage contracts I am looking for are:

    Paul (Nathaniel) Hotesse (Otis) & Marie-Anne Caron 22 SEP 1728 in Montreal >>
    Francoise-Rose Otis & Jean Poitevin 29 OCT 1696 in Beauport

    Paul Hotesse and Francoise-Rose Otis are siblings and both were captives brought from New England during raids.

    Apparently these two marriage contracts have some additional information that is not in the Drouin marriage record that I have seen referred to in articles about the individuals.

    Any information about how to obtain copies of these two marriage contracts would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Jordan.

    Hi Denis
    Thanks for the reply to my post. Your site is a fantastic resource for those researching their French Canadian ancestry, and your database sounds amazing.
    When researching my wife's family history we were very intrigued when we discovered that she had some ancestors that were New England captives that were brought as children by the Natives to New France, and that they started their own families there.
    It was of further interest to us that two of these individuals were siblings (Paul Hotesse and Francoise-Rose Otis), and that they not only have this incredible story of their captivity, but also that they themselves are French Canadian gateway
    ancestors to royalty via their grandmother Rose Stoughton.
    I was wondering Denis if the records that I seek which are described below are something that would likely be on the www.genealogiequebec.com website, or if you knew exactly what these records would be classified as. Is the term "marriage contract"
    that I am using the correct one in trying to locate them.
    There were conflicting theories about the parentage of Francoise-Rose Otis, which apparently was solved by the research in the late-1980s by Sister Anette Potvin. In an article I came across written in 1989, the story of this discovery is told, and in
    the article the definitive piece of evidence mentioned is a marriage contract
    between Francoise-Rose Otis and Jean Poitevin, sieur de Lincot. I have quoted the section of the article below that describes the information in the contract.

    "In early January of this year, Sister Annette Potvin wrote to Robert Whitehouse, president of Dover's Northam Colonists, the city's historical society. Could he help her, she asked, trace the parentage of her captive English forebear, Rose Otis of
    Dover, who became Francoise Rozotty on the Canadian records? Whitehouse sent the
    letter on to this writer whom he has helped for the past nine years in a study of several members of the Otis family and the Abenaki raid on Dover. An examination of nine years of records revealed the expected: Material was available on other members
    of the Otis family, but research had not turned up much on Francoise Rozotty. What
    we had, we mailed off to Edmonton, but it did not adequately address Sister Potvin's question. Sister Potvin continued her study of the old Canadian records. Then in mid- February --fast as historical research usually goes -- came a letter from her,
    dated the 12th of the month. Enclosed were a photocopy and a typed version of an
    until then unknown, French language, marriage contract -- not well known and already heavily pored over marriage certificate -- between Jean Poitevin and Francoise Rozotty, dated three days before their marriage in 1696 and spelling the rest of
    Francoise's name, not as "Rozotty" but clearly as "Rosotis." But, there was more. A
    part of that marriage contract, in translation reads: "Francoise Rosotis, daughter of deceased Stinodis, and of deceased Mary Otos, her father and mother, of English birth in the environs of Boston...." After three hundred years, yet another bit of
    that 1689 raid on Dover had fallen into place. The parental identity of the captive
    Rose Otis, long lost to history, was now on the record. The years of speculation were gone. It was a moment that Alice Baker and Emma Coleman would enjoy. Sister Potvin, like any cautious researcher, wrote: "Now, if this is correct, if Francoise's
    mother is Mary, then Stinodis may be Stephen (Steven) Otis. We should be aware that
    for the French who did not know English, names like Steven and Rose Otis were mysteries. "If Francoise said that her father's name were Steven, the (French) Notary (who drew up the marriage contract) wrote what sounded to him as Stin. In French the "i"
    is pronounced like the English "e". He forgot or missed the "v" but the "n"
    standing for "en" (in Steven), is there. Such mispellings of English names were not uncommon among French "notaires", village priests and other drafters of official documents. The name "Otis", for instance, has had no less than eight major variations
    on the French records. As Emma Coleman listed them: Otheys, Oteys, Otesse, Autes,
    Hautesse, Hotesse, Rozotty, and Thys. We may now add: Odis and Otos. To encounter "Steven Otis" as "Stinodis," (pronounced Stee en odis, with a French inflection) should therefore come as no surprise. The fact the Steven's name in the marriage
    contract is associated with the name of his wife, "Mary Otos," makes the conclusion that
    these two Doverites were Francoise's parents, almost inescapeable. Coleman said of her work with Alice Baker that "the phonetic spelling of the (French) registrars (of English names) made guessing imperative." There is not much to guess at here; it
    is all quite clear. Many New Englanders didn't spell their own names as well.
    Undoubledly Sister Potvin's analysis, despite her caution, is correct. Francoise Rozotty - or Rose Otis - was the 11-year-old daughter of Richard Otis Senior's son Steven and Steven's wife, Mary Pitman Otis of Durham, when she was taken captive in this
    first assault of the first of the French and Indian wars. The original Rose
    Otis - a refugee from war-torn England, and the first wife of the Dover blacksmith - was her grandmother. Six years after Francoise's death, the name of the Dover captive showed once again on the Canadian records. On November 14, 1735, as Sister Potvin
    notes in her February 12 letter, "Michel Potvin, son of Jean Poitevin and Rose
    Otice"
    married at Petite Riviere St. Francois."

    The full article can be found on the Nos-Origines site via the following link:

    http://nosorigines.qc.ca/biography.aspx?name=Otis_Francoise-Rose&id=6843

    that site is copy of other's research, so I NEVER REFER TO IT. It is
    better to find the ORIGINAL SOURCE. And I forbid anyone to copy
    anything from my site to that site.

    I would very much like to obtain a scan or photocopy of the contract so that I can see for myself what the article is describing.

    just ask to the nosorigines copier. He wants the money so give him the
    work to do...



    Apparently in the marriage contract of Paul Hotesse there is also additional information provided that confirms the Paul Hotesse that married Marie-Anne Caron was the same individual that married Madeleine Toupin dit Dussaud. I read this in an excerpt
    of a book entitled: New England Captives Carried to Between 1677 and 1760...by
    Emma Lewis Coleman. The link to pages 161-162 which describe the additional information is below.

    https://books.google.ca/books?id=UoBIBs9HiW8C&pg=PA161&lpg=PA161&dq=%22Paul+hotesse%22&source=bl&ots=76FJ1bYF0k&sig=c7edh52uU2GMcHu5gE3LAlwMJ7U&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjYrpm0ldzKAhWptYMKHap3COgQ6AEIGzAA#v=onepage&q=%22Paul%20hotesse%22&f=false

    This is significant, because on his Drouin marriage record to Madeleine Toupin dit Dussaud his parents are listed as Stephen Otis and Mary Pittman, whereas on his marriage record to Marie-Anne Caron they are listed as Joseph and Louise Harel. The
    information found in the link describes why there was a discrepancy in the parentage
    and the link to his 2nd wife. Again I would like to see the described record for myself to see if I interpret it the same way.

    Denis, any further insight into the matter than has already been graciously provided by yourself, Lisa Lepore and Mardon Erbland would be welcomed and appreciated.

    Thanks so much,
    Jordan.

    --
    Denis Beauregard - généalogiste émérite (FQSG)
    Les Français d'Amérique du Nord - www.francogene.com/genealogie--quebec/ French in North America before 1722 - www.francogene.com/quebec--genealogy/ Sur cédérom ŕ 1785 - On CD-ROM to 1785

    Sorry Denis,
    I don't understand the harsh remark. I didn't intend to insult you or strike a nerve with you at the mention of the site. I only referenced the site because that was where the copy of the article I saw on ancestry gave as a link. I am inquiring, because
    I don't want to simply take it at face value, but see for myself document discussed. I am not familiar with the nuances and differences between the types of records from New France, so I am seeking assistance in the matter. I would definitely subscribe
    to the site that you mentioned if there is a good likelihood that I could locate the records there. I looked at the contents of the records on the site, but was unsure of what they would categorized under. I was simply wondering if you could offer your
    opinion as to whether or not you felt the records (once I put them into more context, because I was unsure if I was describing them right) would be on there.
    Thanks for your time,
    Jordan.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Denis Beauregard@21:1/5 to makowiec@invalid.invalid on Wed Feb 3 17:24:13 2016
    On Wed, 3 Feb 2016 21:58:56 -0000 (UTC), Joe Makowiec <makowiec@invalid.invalid> wrote in soc.genealogy.french:

    On 03 Feb 2016 in soc.genealogy.french, Denis Beauregard wrote:

    a marriage contract and a marriage record are 2 different documents
    having different purposes, rules and ... author (except in the few
    cases where the contract was written by a priest).

    The marriage contract is a legal document with the agreements between
    2 persons. It doesn't make them married however and is, in theory,
    "activated" by a wedding.

    [snip]

    Was this a French custom? Or would Irish families living in French >jurisdictions also obtain a contract? (My wife has Irish ancestors
    living for a generation or two in Montréal.)

    I thought it was universal ! There are contracts for British during
    the English period.


    Denis

    --
    Denis Beauregard - généalogiste émérite (FQSG)
    Les Français d'Amérique du Nord - www.francogene.com/genealogie--quebec/ French in North America before 1722 - www.francogene.com/quebec--genealogy/
    Sur cédérom à 1785 - On CD-ROM to 1785

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jvandenberg@scdsb.on.ca@21:1/5 to All on Thu Feb 4 12:37:41 2016
    Lisa,
    Thanks so much for the help and advice. I am going to check at my local public library on my way home tonight for the New England Captives book. I tried a subscription to the site Denis had mentioned, but so far have had no luck locating the records. It
    has a ton of records on there, but is a bit tough to navigate unless you know exactly what each category of records contain. I am going to continue to try and figure it out as well. The blog post that you posted the link to looks like it could be
    promising as well. The key I guess is trying to find the names of the notaries for the time periods in those localities. There is a book published on New France notaries mentioned in the blog, but I couldn't find it for sale on amazon, but my public
    library may be able to order a copy through the inter-library loan.
    Thanks so much again Lisa,
    Jordan.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lisa Lepore via@21:1/5 to jordanvandenberg on Thu Feb 4 14:44:39 2016
    To: gen-fr@rootsweb.com

    Jordan -

    Sorry of answering on top, but the messages are getting kind of muddled
    now....

    I'll jump in here and answer in defense of Denis' reply to you - Denis has spent his genealogy career finding original records to support
    his research, so he doesn't have any respect or any use for sites that are
    not doing original work, or that copy the hard work of others.

    In this particular case, the information that you found seems to be a compilation of information that appeared on the genealogy.com forum quite
    some time
    ago.

    Here is the link to the original post that I found on genealogy.com and is referenced in the Nos-Origines website. http://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/otis/124/

    Unfortunately, this site is no longer active, but you can read the whole
    thread [I did not] and see if there is other information there
    that can help you. You can't respond to the posts, but maybe some people
    have included their email address in their message.

    I would also suggest that you try to locate the article they mention from
    the
    Foster's Daily Democrat, Dover, NH, Wednesday Evening, June 28,1989:

    "A Tercentennial Story by Jim Aldrich, Special to the Democrat"

    That newspaper is still published. Either check with the newspaper or with
    a library in that area to see if it is on microfilm. This paper at genealogybank.com only starts at 2007. I didn't look to see if it was elsewhere. You may be able to contact the author with information from the article, or through the newspaper in order to determine what he used for research for his story.

    Next, the book mentioned - New England Captives.... is probably available at your local library, or if not, they will be able to get it for you
    through interlibrary loan. If it is a well researched study, it will have a bibliography and footnotes that will lead you to more information -
    hopefully
    the location of said contracts.

    Lisa
    lisa.lepore2@gmail.com




    -----Original Message-----
    From: gen-fr-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:gen-fr-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of jordanvandenberg via
    Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 3:11 PM
    To: gen-fr@rootsweb.com
    Subject: Re: How To Obtain Copies of Marriage Contracts (Not Drouin Marriage Records) For Paul Hotesse (Otis) & Francoise-Rose Otis

    On Wednesday, February 3, 2016 at 2:31:52 PM UTC-5, Denis Beauregard wrote:
    On Wed, 3 Feb 2016 10:17:37 -0800 (PST), jordanvandenberg@hotmail.com
    wrote in soc.genealogy.french:

    On Tuesday, January 26, 2016 at 8:44:42 PM UTC-5, jordanva...@hotmail.com
    wrote:
    Hello Newsgroup,
    I was wondering if anyone knew how to obtain scans or photocopies of
    New France marriage contracts. They apparently are not the same as the
    Drouin Marriage records. The two marriage contracts I am looking for are:

    Paul (Nathaniel) Hotesse (Otis) & Marie-Anne Caron 22 SEP 1728 in
    Montreal

    Francoise-Rose Otis & Jean Poitevin 29 OCT 1696 in Beauport

    Paul Hotesse and Francoise-Rose Otis are siblings and both were
    captives brought from New England during raids.

    Apparently these two marriage contracts have some additional
    information that is not in the Drouin marriage record that I have seen
    referred to in articles about the individuals.

    Any information about how to obtain copies of these two marriage
    contracts would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Jordan.

    Hi Denis
    Thanks for the reply to my post. Your site is a fantastic resource for
    those researching their French Canadian ancestry, and your database sounds amazing.
    When researching my wife's family history we were very intrigued when we
    discovered that she had some ancestors that were New England captives that
    were brought as children by the Natives to New France, and that they started their own families there.
    It was of further interest to us that two of these individuals were
    siblings (Paul Hotesse and Francoise-Rose Otis), and that they not only have this incredible story of their captivity, but also that they themselves are French Canadian gateway ancestors to royalty via their grandmother Rose Stoughton.
    I was wondering Denis if the records that I seek which are described
    below are something that would likely be on the www.genealogiequebec.com website, or if you knew exactly what these records would be classified as.
    Is the term "marriage contract" that I am using the correct one in trying to locate them.
    There were conflicting theories about the parentage of Francoise-Rose
    Otis, which apparently was solved by the research in the late-1980s
    by Sister Anette Potvin. In an article I came across written in 1989,
    the story of this discovery is told, and in the article the
    definitive piece of evidence mentioned is a marriage contract
    between Francoise-Rose Otis and Jean Poitevin, sieur de Lincot. I have
    quoted the section of the article below that describes the information in
    the contract.

    "In early January of this year, Sister Annette Potvin wrote to Robert >Whitehouse, president of Dover's Northam Colonists, the city's
    historical society. Could he help her, she asked, trace the parentage
    of her captive English forebear, Rose Otis of Dover, who became
    Francoise Rozotty on the Canadian records? Whitehouse sent the
    letter on to this writer whom he has helped for the past nine years in
    a study of several members of the Otis family and the Abenaki raid on
    Dover. An examination of nine years of records revealed the expected: Material was available on other members of the Otis family, but
    research had not turned up much on Francoise Rozotty. What we had, we
    mailed off to Edmonton, but it did not adequately address Sister
    Potvin's question. Sister Potvin continued her study of the old
    Canadian records. Then in mid- February --fast as historical research
    usually goes -- came a letter from her, dated the 12th of the month.
    Enclosed were a photocopy and a typed version of an
    until then unknown, French language, marriage contract -- not well
    known and already heavily pored over marriage certificate -- between
    Jean Poitevin and Francoise Rozotty, dated three days before their
    marriage in 1696 and spelling the rest of Francoise's name, not as >"Rozotty" but clearly as "Rosotis." But, there was more. A
    part of that marriage contract, in translation reads: "Francoise
    Rosotis, daughter of deceased Stinodis, and of deceased Mary Otos, her
    father and mother, of English birth in the environs of Boston...."
    After three hundred years, yet another bit of that 1689 raid on Dover
    had fallen into place. The parental identity of the captive Rose Otis,
    long lost to history, was now on the record. The years of speculation
    were gone. It was a moment that Alice Baker and Emma Coleman would
    enjoy. Sister Potvin, like any cautious researcher, wrote: "Now, if
    this is correct, if Francoise's mother is Mary, then Stinodis may be
    Stephen (Steven) Otis. We should be aware that
    for the French who did not know English, names like Steven and Rose Otis
    were mysteries. "If Francoise said that her father's name were Steven, the (French) Notary (who drew up the marriage contract) wrote what sounded to
    him as Stin. In French the "i" is pronounced like the English "e". He forgot
    or missed the "v" but the "n"
    standing for "en" (in Steven), is there. Such mispellings of English
    names were not uncommon among French "notaires", village priests and
    other drafters of official documents. The name "Otis", for instance,
    has had no less than eight major variations on the French records. As
    Emma Coleman listed them: Otheys, Oteys, Otesse, Autes, Hautesse,
    Hotesse, Rozotty, and Thys. We may now add: Odis and Otos. To
    encounter "Steven Otis" as "Stinodis," (pronounced Stee en odis, with
    a French inflection) should therefore come as no surprise. The fact
    the Steven's name in the marriage contract is associated with the name
    of his wife, "Mary Otos," makes the conclusion that
    these two Doverites were Francoise's parents, almost inescapeable.
    Coleman said of her work with Alice Baker that "the phonetic spelling of the (French) registrars (of English names) made guessing imperative." There is
    not much to guess at here; it is all quite clear. Many New Englanders didn't spell their own names as well.
    Undoubledly Sister Potvin's analysis, despite her caution, is correct. Francoise Rozotty - or Rose Otis - was the 11-year-old daughter of
    Richard Otis Senior's son Steven and Steven's wife, Mary Pitman Otis of
    Durham, when she was taken captive in this first assault of the first of the French and Indian wars. The original Rose Otis - a refugee from war-torn England, and the first wife of the Dover blacksmith - was her grandmother.
    Six years after Francoise's death, the name of the Dover captive showed once again on the Canadian records. On November 14, 1735, as Sister Potvin notes
    in her February 12 letter, "Michel Potvin, son of Jean Poitevin and Rose
    Otice"
    married at Petite Riviere St. Francois."

    The full article can be found on the Nos-Origines site via the following
    link:

    http://nosorigines.qc.ca/biography.aspx?name=Otis_Francoise-Rose&id=6
    843

    that site is copy of other's research, so I NEVER REFER TO IT. It is
    better to find the ORIGINAL SOURCE. And I forbid anyone to copy
    anything from my site to that site.

    I would very much like to obtain a scan or photocopy of the contract so
    that I can see for myself what the article is describing.

    just ask to the nosorigines copier. He wants the money so give him the
    work to do...



    Apparently in the marriage contract of Paul Hotesse there is also >additional information provided that confirms the Paul Hotesse that
    married Marie-Anne Caron was the same individual that married
    Madeleine Toupin dit Dussaud. I read this in an excerpt of a book
    entitled: New England Captives Carried to Between 1677 and 1760...by
    Emma Lewis Coleman. The link to pages 161-162 which describe the
    additional information is below.

    https://books.google.ca/books?id=UoBIBs9HiW8C&pg=PA161&lpg=PA161&dq=% >22Paul+hotesse%22&source=bl&ots=76FJ1bYF0k&sig=c7edh52uU2GMcHu5gE3LAl >wMJ7U&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjYrpm0ldzKAhWptYMKHap3COgQ6AEIGzAA#v=onep >age&q=%22Paul%20hotesse%22&f=false

    This is significant, because on his Drouin marriage record to
    Madeleine Toupin dit Dussaud his parents are listed as Stephen Otis
    and Mary Pittman, whereas on his marriage record to Marie-Anne Caron
    they are listed as Joseph and Louise Harel. The information found in
    the link describes why there was a discrepancy in the parentage
    and the link to his 2nd wife. Again I would like to see the described
    record for myself to see if I interpret it the same way.

    Denis, any further insight into the matter than has already been
    graciously provided by yourself, Lisa Lepore and Mardon Erbland would be welcomed and appreciated.

    Thanks so much,
    Jordan.

    --
    Denis Beauregard - généalogiste émérite (FQSG) Les Français d'Amérique
    du Nord - www.francogene.com/genealogie--quebec/
    French in North America before 1722 -
    www.francogene.com/quebec--genealogy/
    Sur cédérom ŕ 1785 - On CD-ROM to 1785

    Sorry Denis,
    I don't understand the harsh remark. I didn't intend to insult you or strike
    a nerve with you at the mention of the site. I only referenced the site
    because that was where the copy of the article I saw on ancestry gave as a link. I am inquiring, because I don't want to simply take it at face value,
    but see for myself document discussed. I am not familiar with the nuances
    and differences between the types of records from New France, so I am
    seeking assistance in the matter. I would definitely subscribe to the site
    that you mentioned if there is a good likelihood that I could locate the records there. I looked at the contents of the records on the site, but was unsure of what they would categorized under. I was simply wondering if you could offer your opinion as to whether or not you felt the records (once I
    put them into more context, because I was unsure if I was describing them right) would be on there.
    Thanks for your time,
    Jordan.

    -------------------------------
    To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-FR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
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  • From Lisa Lepore via@21:1/5 to Joe Makowiec on Thu Feb 4 15:03:18 2016
    To: gen-fr@rootsweb.com

    Hi Joe,

    I would think you would find a contract for anyone who needed to write one, regardless of their nationality.

    If a person needed a contract for any reason, it would be done by a notaire. Here in the US we use a lawyer for
    these things.

    Here's a link to a small article in the Archives of Canada blog in English

    http://thediscoverblog.com/2014/08/21/notarial-records/

    If you're ancestors lived there they may have needed the services of a
    notaire at some point aside from a marriage
    contract - like buying or selling property, or going into business, or
    drawing up a will, etc.

    Lisa
    lisa.lepore2@gmail.com

    -----Original Message-----
    From: gen-fr-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:gen-fr-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Joe Makowiec via
    Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 4:59 PM
    To: gen-fr@rootsweb.com
    Subject: Re: How To Obtain Copies of Marriage Contracts (Not Drouin Marriage Records) For Paul Hotesse (Otis) & Francoise-Rose Otis

    On 03 Feb 2016 in soc.genealogy.french, Denis Beauregard wrote:

    a marriage contract and a marriage record are 2 different documents
    having different purposes, rules and ... author (except in the few
    cases where the contract was written by a priest).

    The marriage contract is a legal document with the agreements between
    2 persons. It doesn't make them married however and is, in theory, "activated" by a wedding.

    [snip]

    Was this a French custom? Or would Irish families living in French jurisdictions also obtain a contract? (My wife has Irish ancestors living
    for a generation or two in Montrial.)

    --
    Joe Makowiec
    http://makowiec.org/
    Email: http://makowiec.org/contact/?Joe
    Usenet Improvement Project: http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Denis Beauregard@21:1/5 to gen-fr@rootsweb.com on Thu Feb 4 22:49:12 2016
    On Thu, 4 Feb 2016 22:28:05 -0500, Lisa Lepore via
    <gen-fr@rootsweb.com> wrote in soc.genealogy.french:

    Jordan,

    The blog post was from the Library and Archives of Canada. That's the same >place that has the notaire index and the data on microfilm.

    The official depository for notary records is the Quebec archives.
    The microfilming is not systematic, i.e. not all notaries in a
    given court house. Microfilms may be available from many other
    sources, like indexes and list of notaries.

    You may know this, but there are some Quebec vital records from the Drouin >collection at ancestry.com and at familysearch.org, however they
    do not contain everything that is available at genealogiequebec.com.

    Actually, the original Drouin collection and the corrections like
    missing images or new scanning are on genealogiequebec.com. The copy
    at Ancestry won't be upgraded. The 4000 series is a more recent
    scanning from church copy.

    The familysearch series is an independent microfilming (or actually
    some microfilmings) and thus the images are not the same. I think
    there are at least 2 perhaps 3 microfilmings. One was made in 1976
    and covers the church copy for catholic records up to 1876. This
    copy may include margin annotations made from about 1910 near a
    baptism to indicate someone was married. Another microfilming was
    done later according to some agreement with government of Quebec.
    I don't know what exactly it covers.


    Denis

    --
    Denis Beauregard - généalogiste émérite (FQSG)
    Les Français d'Amérique du Nord - www.francogene.com/genealogie--quebec/ French in North America before 1722 - www.francogene.com/quebec--genealogy/
    Sur cédérom à 1785 - On CD-ROM to 1785

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lisa Lepore via@21:1/5 to jvandenberg on Thu Feb 4 22:28:05 2016
    To: gen-fr@rootsweb.com

    Jordan,

    The blog post was from the Library and Archives of Canada. That's the same place that has the notaire index and the data on microfilm.

    You may know this, but there are some Quebec vital records from the Drouin collection at ancestry.com and at familysearch.org, however they
    do not contain everything that is available at genealogiequebec.com.

    If you take a look at the google site that you sent the other day with the
    link to a portion of that book, there is a link on that page that
    says "find it in a library" It brings you to the WorldCat site where you
    can plug in your location, and it will let you know which libraries near you have it,
    and if it can be borrowed or if it's in the reference section.

    Let us know how it's going,
    Lisa
    lisa.lepore2@gmail.com


    -----Original Message-----
    From: gen-fr-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:gen-fr-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of jvandenberg via
    Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2016 3:38 PM
    To: gen-fr@rootsweb.com
    Subject: Re: How To Obtain Copies of Marriage Contracts (Not Drouin Marriage Records) For Paul Hotesse (Otis) & Francoise-Rose Otis

    Lisa,
    Thanks so much for the help and advice. I am going to check at my local
    public library on my way home tonight for the New England Captives book. I tried a subscription to the site Denis had mentioned, but so far have had no luck locating the records. It has a ton of records on there, but is a bit
    tough to navigate unless you know exactly what each category of records contain. I am going to continue to try and figure it out as well. The blog
    post that you posted the link to looks like it could be promising as well.
    The key I guess is trying to find the names of the notaries for the time periods in those localities. There is a book published on New France
    notaries mentioned in the blog, but I couldn't find it for sale on amazon,
    but my public library may be able to order a copy through the inter-library loan.
    Thanks so much again Lisa,
    Jordan.

    -------------------------------
    To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-FR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
    in the subject and the body of the message

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  • From jvandenberg@scdsb.on.ca@21:1/5 to jordanva...@hotmail.com on Sat Nov 5 12:54:21 2016
    On Tuesday, January 26, 2016 at 8:44:42 PM UTC-5, jordanva...@hotmail.com wrote:
    Hello Newsgroup,
    I was wondering if anyone knew how to obtain scans or photocopies of New France marriage contracts. They apparently are not the same as the Drouin Marriage records. The two marriage contracts I am looking for are:

    Paul (Nathaniel) Hotesse (Otis) & Marie-Anne Caron 22 SEP 1728 in Montreal

    Francoise-Rose Otis & Jean Poitevin 29 OCT 1696 in Beauport

    Paul Hotesse and Francoise-Rose Otis are siblings and both were captives brought from New England during raids.

    Apparently these two marriage contracts have some additional information that is not in the Drouin marriage record that I have seen referred to in articles about the individuals.

    Any information about how to obtain copies of these two marriage contracts would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Jordan.

    Hi,

    I found the images for the RĂ©pertoires de notaires (Notarial catalogs) of the marriage contracts that I am after, but cannot find the actual contracts.
    Does anyone know based on the name of the notary and the source information below, where the actual contracts would be housed, or if they are available online?


    For the marriage contract of Francoise-Rose Otis & Jean Poitevin 08 OCT 1696 Quebec

    The source information for the RĂ©pertoires de notaires (Notarial catalogs) image on ancestry.ca is:
    Source Citation
    Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec; Montréal, Quebec, Canada; Collection: Archives des notaires du Québec; District: Québec; Title: Duprac, Jean-Robert (1693-1723)
    Description
    Notary : Duprac, Jean-Robert (1693-1723)
    Weblink: http://interactive.ancestry.ca/61062/45894_83024005549_1544-00010/7567609?backurl=http://person.ancestry.ca/tree/71544520/person/30326363210/facts/citation/900155354863/edit/record


    For the marriage contract of Paul (Nathaniel) Hotesse (Otis) & Marie-Anne Caron 19 SEP 1728 in Montreal (acte #2593)

    The source information for the RĂ©pertoires de notaires (Notarial catalogs) image on ancestry.ca is:
    Source Citation
    Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec; Montréal, Quebec, Canada; Collection: Archives des notaires du Québec; District: Montréal; Title: Saint-Martin, Jean-Baptiste Adhemar dit (1714-1734)
    Description
    Notary : Saint-Martin, Jean-Baptiste Adhemar dit (1714-1734)
    Weblink: http://interactive.ancestry.ca/61062/45894_83024005549_1596-00314/907653752?backurl=http://person.ancestry.ca/tree/71544520/person/30239999728/facts/citation/900155354979/edit/record

    Any assistance would be greatly appreciated and thanks to those who assisted thus far in previous posts.

    Jordan Vandenberg.

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    This message is being sent on behalf of the Simcoe County District School Board and/or your child’s school in compliance with the Canadian Anti-Spam Legislation. Questions regarding this electronic communication may be
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  • From jordanvandenberg@hotmail.com@21:1/5 to jordanva...@hotmail.com on Sat Nov 5 12:56:20 2016
    On Tuesday, January 26, 2016 at 8:44:42 PM UTC-5, jordanva...@hotmail.com wrote:
    Hello Newsgroup,
    I was wondering if anyone knew how to obtain scans or photocopies of New France marriage contracts. They apparently are not the same as the Drouin Marriage records. The two marriage contracts I am looking for are:

    Paul (Nathaniel) Hotesse (Otis) & Marie-Anne Caron 22 SEP 1728 in Montreal

    Francoise-Rose Otis & Jean Poitevin 29 OCT 1696 in Beauport

    Paul Hotesse and Francoise-Rose Otis are siblings and both were captives brought from New England during raids.

    Apparently these two marriage contracts have some additional information that is not in the Drouin marriage record that I have seen referred to in articles about the individuals.

    Any information about how to obtain copies of these two marriage contracts would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Jordan.

    Hi Newsgroup,

    I found the images for the RĂ©pertoires de notaires (Notarial catalogs) of the marriage contracts that I am after, but cannot find the actual contracts.
    Does anyone know based on the name of the notary and the source information below, where the actual contracts would be housed, or if they are available online?


    For the marriage contract of Francoise-Rose Otis & Jean Poitevin 08 OCT 1696 Quebec

    The source information for the RĂ©pertoires de notaires (Notarial catalogs) image on ancestry.ca is:
    Source Citation
    Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec; Montréal, Quebec, Canada; Collection: Archives des notaires du Québec; District: Québec; Title: Duprac, Jean-Robert (1693-1723)
    Description
    Notary : Duprac, Jean-Robert (1693-1723)
    Weblink: http://interactive.ancestry.ca/61062/45894_83024005549_1544-00010/7567609?backurl=http://person.ancestry.ca/tree/71544520/person/30326363210/facts/citation/900155354863/edit/record


    For the marriage contract of Paul (Nathaniel) Hotesse (Otis) & Marie-Anne Caron 19 SEP 1728 in Montreal (acte #2593)

    The source information for the RĂ©pertoires de notaires (Notarial catalogs) image on ancestry.ca is:
    Source Citation
    Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec; Montréal, Quebec, Canada; Collection: Archives des notaires du Québec; District: Montréal; Title: Saint-Martin, Jean-Baptiste Adhemar dit (1714-1734)
    Description
    Notary : Saint-Martin, Jean-Baptiste Adhemar dit (1714-1734)
    Weblink: http://interactive.ancestry.ca/61062/45894_83024005549_1596-00314/907653752?backurl=http://person.ancestry.ca/tree/71544520/person/30239999728/facts/citation/900155354979/edit/record

    Any assistance would be greatly appreciated and thanks to those who assisted thus far in previous posts.

    Jordan Vandenberg.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mariepierre.lessard@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Sat Sep 15 00:07:41 2018
    Oh! Jordan:
    I purchased Coleman's book, so I have access to the complete text. The marriage contract proves that this Paul is the right Paul, so the mistake isn't made in the marriage contract. It's the priest at the church who somehow makes a clerical error about
    who the groom's parents are. Clerical errors do occur. They exist in English records as well.

    There is another case in my family tree where a man dies, but his first name is turned into the masculine form of one of his daughters' name. One can only guess how professionals make such errors, but he was living in the same town as this daughter, so
    it looks like she was the one taking care of him in his last moments, and it's her name (minus the final e) that got noted down. His name was Louis Lemieux. His death record calls him François Lemieux.

    Hopefully, they were just overworked and tired, and not drunk! ;-) LOL

    Marie-Pierre

    Le samedi 5 novembre 2016 20:56:21 UTC+1, jordanva...@hotmail.com a écrit :
    On Tuesday, January 26, 2016 at 8:44:42 PM UTC-5, jordanva...@hotmail.com wrote:
    Hello Newsgroup,
    I was wondering if anyone knew how to obtain scans or photocopies of New France marriage contracts. They apparently are not the same as the Drouin Marriage records. The two marriage contracts I am looking for are:

    Paul (Nathaniel) Hotesse (Otis) & Marie-Anne Caron 22 SEP 1728 in Montreal

    Francoise-Rose Otis & Jean Poitevin 29 OCT 1696 in Beauport

    Paul Hotesse and Francoise-Rose Otis are siblings and both were captives brought from New England during raids.

    Apparently these two marriage contracts have some additional information that is not in the Drouin marriage record that I have seen referred to in articles about the individuals.

    Any information about how to obtain copies of these two marriage contracts would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Jordan.

    Hi Newsgroup,

    I found the images for the RĂ©pertoires de notaires (Notarial catalogs) of the marriage contracts that I am after, but cannot find the actual contracts.
    Does anyone know based on the name of the notary and the source information below, where the actual contracts would be housed, or if they are available online?


    For the marriage contract of Francoise-Rose Otis & Jean Poitevin 08 OCT 1696 Quebec

    The source information for the RĂ©pertoires de notaires (Notarial catalogs) image on ancestry.ca is:
    Source Citation
    Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec; Montréal, Quebec, Canada; Collection: Archives des notaires du Québec; District: Québec; Title: Duprac, Jean-Robert (1693-1723)
    Description
    Notary : Duprac, Jean-Robert (1693-1723)
    Weblink: http://interactive.ancestry.ca/61062/45894_83024005549_1544-00010/7567609?backurl=http://person.ancestry.ca/tree/71544520/person/30326363210/facts/citation/900155354863/edit/record


    For the marriage contract of Paul (Nathaniel) Hotesse (Otis) & Marie-Anne Caron 19 SEP 1728 in Montreal (acte #2593)

    The source information for the RĂ©pertoires de notaires (Notarial catalogs) image on ancestry.ca is:
    Source Citation
    Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec; Montréal, Quebec, Canada; Collection: Archives des notaires du Québec; District: Montréal; Title: Saint-Martin, Jean-Baptiste Adhemar dit (1714-1734)
    Description
    Notary : Saint-Martin, Jean-Baptiste Adhemar dit (1714-1734)
    Weblink: http://interactive.ancestry.ca/61062/45894_83024005549_1596-00314/907653752?backurl=http://person.ancestry.ca/tree/71544520/person/30239999728/facts/citation/900155354979/edit/record

    Any assistance would be greatly appreciated and thanks to those who assisted thus far in previous posts.

    Jordan Vandenberg.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mariepierre.lessard@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Fri Sep 14 23:44:09 2018
    Hi, Jordan Vandenberg!

    I read the whole thread. It's almost 2 years old, but it's not that long ago in genealogical terms. Did you find and order copies of the contracts you sought? I believe that Denis Beauregard is correct. The cheapest and easiest way to get those copies is
    to ask NosOrigines. I know for a fact that their records are backed by original documents (as well as the PRDH) since I am a contributor of the site. They have in-house access to quite a few primary sources.

    I got permission to add records to complete the ascendance of the Otis children, and I have been working on it for a few months now. They require me to find primary sources, which is a challenge since I don't live in the U.S., and I suspect that
    everything isn't digitized yet. I personally descend from John (Jean-Baptiste) Otis, cousin to your wife's ancestors, but I have started tackling Stephen's children now. I have access to Stephen (Joseph-Marie), but not to the other children.

    https://www.nosorigines.qc.ca/GenealogieQuebec.aspx?genealogie=Otis_Joseph-Marie-Stephen&pid=1694532

    Could you check out my research, and send me any feedback/constructive criticism that you might have by clicking on the Envelope icon of either Joseph-Marie's record or William Pitman and Barbara Evans? (I own those records, so I will receive your
    message directly.) You probably have come much further than I have, at this point, so any additions to those records (with sources) would be greatly appreciated!

    Marie-Pierre

    Le samedi 5 novembre 2016 20:56:21 UTC+1, jordanva...@hotmail.com a écrit :
    On Tuesday, January 26, 2016 at 8:44:42 PM UTC-5, jordanva...@hotmail.com wrote:
    Hello Newsgroup,
    I was wondering if anyone knew how to obtain scans or photocopies of New France marriage contracts. They apparently are not the same as the Drouin Marriage records. The two marriage contracts I am looking for are:

    Paul (Nathaniel) Hotesse (Otis) & Marie-Anne Caron 22 SEP 1728 in Montreal

    Francoise-Rose Otis & Jean Poitevin 29 OCT 1696 in Beauport

    Paul Hotesse and Francoise-Rose Otis are siblings and both were captives brought from New England during raids.

    Apparently these two marriage contracts have some additional information that is not in the Drouin marriage record that I have seen referred to in articles about the individuals.

    Any information about how to obtain copies of these two marriage contracts would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Jordan.

    Hi Newsgroup,

    I found the images for the RĂ©pertoires de notaires (Notarial catalogs) of the marriage contracts that I am after, but cannot find the actual contracts.
    Does anyone know based on the name of the notary and the source information below, where the actual contracts would be housed, or if they are available online?


    For the marriage contract of Francoise-Rose Otis & Jean Poitevin 08 OCT 1696 Quebec

    The source information for the RĂ©pertoires de notaires (Notarial catalogs) image on ancestry.ca is:
    Source Citation
    Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec; Montréal, Quebec, Canada; Collection: Archives des notaires du Québec; District: Québec; Title: Duprac, Jean-Robert (1693-1723)
    Description
    Notary : Duprac, Jean-Robert (1693-1723)
    Weblink: http://interactive.ancestry.ca/61062/45894_83024005549_1544-00010/7567609?backurl=http://person.ancestry.ca/tree/71544520/person/30326363210/facts/citation/900155354863/edit/record


    For the marriage contract of Paul (Nathaniel) Hotesse (Otis) & Marie-Anne Caron 19 SEP 1728 in Montreal (acte #2593)

    The source information for the RĂ©pertoires de notaires (Notarial catalogs) image on ancestry.ca is:
    Source Citation
    Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec; Montréal, Quebec, Canada; Collection: Archives des notaires du Québec; District: Montréal; Title: Saint-Martin, Jean-Baptiste Adhemar dit (1714-1734)
    Description
    Notary : Saint-Martin, Jean-Baptiste Adhemar dit (1714-1734)
    Weblink: http://interactive.ancestry.ca/61062/45894_83024005549_1596-00314/907653752?backurl=http://person.ancestry.ca/tree/71544520/person/30239999728/facts/citation/900155354979/edit/record

    Any assistance would be greatly appreciated and thanks to those who assisted thus far in previous posts.

    Jordan Vandenberg.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mariepierre.lessard@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Sat Sep 15 03:01:07 2018
    As you might remember, the marriage record (at the church) of Nathaniel (Paul)'s first marriage also contains a whole bunch of mistakes, to such a degree that (it looks like) Paul refused to sign. I have to say that if were him, I wouldn't stand for such
    a travesty either.

    Marie-Pierre

    Le samedi 5 novembre 2016 20:56:21 UTC+1, jordanva...@hotmail.com a écrit :
    On Tuesday, January 26, 2016 at 8:44:42 PM UTC-5, jordanva...@hotmail.com wrote:
    Hello Newsgroup,
    I was wondering if anyone knew how to obtain scans or photocopies of New France marriage contracts. They apparently are not the same as the Drouin Marriage records. The two marriage contracts I am looking for are:

    Paul (Nathaniel) Hotesse (Otis) & Marie-Anne Caron 22 SEP 1728 in Montreal

    Francoise-Rose Otis & Jean Poitevin 29 OCT 1696 in Beauport

    Paul Hotesse and Francoise-Rose Otis are siblings and both were captives brought from New England during raids.

    Apparently these two marriage contracts have some additional information that is not in the Drouin marriage record that I have seen referred to in articles about the individuals.

    Any information about how to obtain copies of these two marriage contracts would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Jordan.

    Hi Newsgroup,

    I found the images for the RĂ©pertoires de notaires (Notarial catalogs) of the marriage contracts that I am after, but cannot find the actual contracts.
    Does anyone know based on the name of the notary and the source information below, where the actual contracts would be housed, or if they are available online?


    For the marriage contract of Francoise-Rose Otis & Jean Poitevin 08 OCT 1696 Quebec

    The source information for the RĂ©pertoires de notaires (Notarial catalogs) image on ancestry.ca is:
    Source Citation
    Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec; Montréal, Quebec, Canada; Collection: Archives des notaires du Québec; District: Québec; Title: Duprac, Jean-Robert (1693-1723)
    Description
    Notary : Duprac, Jean-Robert (1693-1723)
    Weblink: http://interactive.ancestry.ca/61062/45894_83024005549_1544-00010/7567609?backurl=http://person.ancestry.ca/tree/71544520/person/30326363210/facts/citation/900155354863/edit/record


    For the marriage contract of Paul (Nathaniel) Hotesse (Otis) & Marie-Anne Caron 19 SEP 1728 in Montreal (acte #2593)

    The source information for the RĂ©pertoires de notaires (Notarial catalogs) image on ancestry.ca is:
    Source Citation
    Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec; Montréal, Quebec, Canada; Collection: Archives des notaires du Québec; District: Montréal; Title: Saint-Martin, Jean-Baptiste Adhemar dit (1714-1734)
    Description
    Notary : Saint-Martin, Jean-Baptiste Adhemar dit (1714-1734)
    Weblink: http://interactive.ancestry.ca/61062/45894_83024005549_1596-00314/907653752?backurl=http://person.ancestry.ca/tree/71544520/person/30239999728/facts/citation/900155354979/edit/record

    Any assistance would be greatly appreciated and thanks to those who assisted thus far in previous posts.

    Jordan Vandenberg.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Denis Beauregard@21:1/5 to mariepierre.lessard@gmail.com on Fri Sep 28 10:29:04 2018
    On Fri, 14 Sep 2018 23:44:09 -0700 (PDT),
    mariepierre.lessard@gmail.com wrote in soc.genealogy.french:

    Hi, Jordan Vandenberg!

    I read the whole thread. It's almost 2 years old, but it's not that long ago in genealogical terms. Did you find and order copies of the contracts you sought? I believe that Denis Beauregard is correct. The cheapest and easiest way to get those copies
    is to ask NosOrigines. I know for a fact that their records are backed by original documents (as well as the PRDH) since I am a contributor of the site. They have in-house access to quite a few primary sources.

    Please double check what you write. that site is full of junk and
    mistakes. it is rapid mostly site copying. each time I checked
    something not elsewhere, it was bogus. no site showing the
    expected record.


    Denis

    --
    Denis Beauregard - généalogiste émérite (FQSG)
    Les Français d'Amérique du Nord - www.francogene.com/genealogie--quebec/ French in North America before 1722 - www.francogene.com/quebec--genealogy/
    Sur cédérom à 1785 - On CD-ROM to 1785

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mariepierre.lessard@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Fri Sep 28 07:34:18 2018
    Oh, really? I thought it was reliable...
    I am in frequent contact with the people responsible for the site, and they require ME to find reliable sources.
    This being said, I corrected mistakes in the back row related to the Otis family. Those errors are based on Malchelosse work, who wrote a bunch of... lies about the ascendance of this particular family.
    Marie-Pierre

    Le vendredi 28 septembre 2018 16:29:04 UTC+2, Denis Beauregard a écrit :
    On Fri, 14 Sep 2018 23:44:09 -0700 (PDT),
    mariepierre.lessard@gmail.com wrote in soc.genealogy.french:

    Hi, Jordan Vandenberg!

    I read the whole thread. It's almost 2 years old, but it's not that long ago in genealogical terms. Did you find and order copies of the contracts you sought? I believe that Denis Beauregard is correct. The cheapest and easiest way to get those copies
    is to ask NosOrigines. I know for a fact that their records are backed by
    original documents (as well as the PRDH) since I am a contributor of the site. They have in-house access to quite a few primary sources.

    Please double check what you write. that site is full of junk and
    mistakes. it is rapid mostly site copying. each time I checked
    something not elsewhere, it was bogus. no site showing the
    expected record.


    Denis

    --
    Denis Beauregard - généalogiste émérite (FQSG)
    Les Français d'Amérique du Nord - www.francogene.com/genealogie--quebec/ French in North America before 1722 - www.francogene.com/quebec--genealogy/ Sur cédérom à 1785 - On CD-ROM to 1785

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  • From mariepierre.lessard@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Fri Sep 28 07:41:54 2018
    I also found some mistakes in the "back row" for some Frenchmen, but those are due to the inaccuracies in the original records in Canada. There was research done in France by PREFEN (as Denish Beauregard necessarily knows, but this is useful information
    for others). There are plenty of spelling variations in the records about the first immigrants, and the original records in France don't necessarily match perfectly. Sometimes, the mistakes are quite big.

    I imagine that the same phenomenon happens with immigrants from England. I have training as a linguist, and one of the things that I know is that language evolves quite a bit over a few hundreds of years. Back then, there would have been many different
    dialects and types of pronunciations for the same words. This probably explains the horrible spelling mistakes by the priests and the other professionals, and it's part of the challenge of establishing the ascendance in the "old country."

    Marie-Pierre

    Le vendredi 28 septembre 2018 16:34:19 UTC+2, mariepier...@gmail.com a écrit :
    Oh, really? I thought it was reliable...
    I am in frequent contact with the people responsible for the site, and they require ME to find reliable sources.
    This being said, I corrected mistakes in the back row related to the Otis family. Those errors are based on Malchelosse work, who wrote a bunch of... lies about the ascendance of this particular family.
    Marie-Pierre

    Le vendredi 28 septembre 2018 16:29:04 UTC+2, Denis Beauregard a écrit :
    On Fri, 14 Sep 2018 23:44:09 -0700 (PDT),
    mariepierre.lessard@gmail.com wrote in soc.genealogy.french:

    Hi, Jordan Vandenberg!

    I read the whole thread. It's almost 2 years old, but it's not that long ago in genealogical terms. Did you find and order copies of the contracts you sought? I believe that Denis Beauregard is correct. The cheapest and easiest way to get those
    copies is to ask NosOrigines. I know for a fact that their records are backed by
    original documents (as well as the PRDH) since I am a contributor of the site. They have in-house access to quite a few primary sources.

    Please double check what you write. that site is full of junk and
    mistakes. it is rapid mostly site copying. each time I checked
    something not elsewhere, it was bogus. no site showing the
    expected record.


    Denis

    --
    Denis Beauregard - généalogiste émérite (FQSG)
    Les Français d'Amérique du Nord - www.francogene.com/genealogie--quebec/ French in North America before 1722 - www.francogene.com/quebec--genealogy/ Sur cédérom à 1785 - On CD-ROM to 1785

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)