• [Carib] Scots to West Indies

    From Comcast@21:1/5 to All on Sat Dec 16 23:11:48 2017
    Chris, interesting that you mention business correspondence. Should anyone on this list know of someone who can read Danish handwriting, then I have scans of a huge load of documents from the probate of Thomas Gray's estate. These are held in a box in
    Copenhagen, which a fellow traveler was generous enough to photograph. Apparently, they contain all sorts of business transactions. Would adore help in reading them.

    I was in Edinburgh this June. Where do those letter books reside?

    Anyone?

    Cheers,
    Laura

    On Dec 16, 2017, at 9:40 AM, Chris Codrington <cmcod@optimum.net> wrote:

    Hi Laura
    Thanks for your note.
    Indeed...I must be a bit hyper vigilant due to a very intrusive case of lumbar stenosis....
    So excuse me...I love your contributions to this list!

    Ive been reading letters and notes in a digitized version of VL Oliver's History of Antigua
    My pattern of study has been to run searches of certain Scots or Irish names and then browse the references, I've had an opportunity to scan many bits of correspondence associated with these folk. It is amazing just how closely linked many were.
    Very few are going out to the islands "cold" and a lot of people moved around too. The Kin and business "webs" were the primary means of securing opportunities and there were it seems always a few who were more adept at networking than others. For
    instance Dr Walter Tullideph was very active in keeping track of the comings and goings of Scots in the leewards during his time. His surviving letters are full of chat noting the movements of this person or that and their developing or deteriorating
    fortunes. His letterbooks are in Edinburgh but I keep hoping to find a digital copy one of these days as he mentions people I need to study.

    It's very likely Thomas Grey would have had references and or a letter of recommendation to someone on St Croix. Naturally most of this is invisible to us but traces often survive and sometimes doing a broad reconnoitering of the surviving info on the
    community can yield a clue or two. I wish there were more compendiums of mercantile correspondence from the time as that would yield such goodies.
    Im still a raw amateur.
    Cod

    -----Original Message-----
    From: CARIBBEAN [mailto:caribbean-bounces+cmcod=optimum.net@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of lwa101@comcast.net
    Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 8:55 AM
    To: Caribbean List <caribbean@rootsweb.com>
    Subject: [Carib] Newspapering & emigration

    Dear Chris,
    I am just reading emails now and your sage response. Heavens, fella, you mustn’t think I would ever set out to purposefully rap knuckles, so the only viable choice is that my missive (missile?) was meant to provoke a bit of thoughtful reflection by
    all those of us who benefit from journalism yet decline to actually support it.

    Which reminds me, thank goodness our forefathers got the news in print and not the et

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Daniell@21:1/5 to Caribbean Rootsweb on Sun Dec 17 17:39:32 2017
    Hi Laura,

    You once asked about Anquetil Grey and you were not pleased by my answer. Its Grey and not the US-style Gray. Here’s a bit about them in Wikipedia:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_(surname)

    The only surname with more major English and Scotch and Irish titles to its credit is Hamilton

    regards,

    David
    One recent revelation, I had always understood Chris was 20 years older than now he says he is! D



    On 17/12/2017, at 5:11 PM, Comcast <lwa101@comcast.net> wrote:

    Chris, interesting that you mention business correspondence. Should anyone on this list know of someone who can read Danish handwriting, then I have scans of a huge load of documents from the probate of Thomas Gray's estate. These are held in a box in
    Copenhagen, which a fellow traveler was generous enough to photograph. Apparently, they contain all sorts of business transactions. Would adore help in reading them.

    I was in Edinburgh this June. Where do those letter books reside?

    Anyone?

    Cheers,
    Laura

    On Dec 16, 2017, at 9:40 AM, Chris Codrington <cmcod@optimum.net> wrote:

    Hi Laura
    Thanks for your note.
    Indeed...I must be a bit hyper vigilant due to a very intrusive case of lumbar stenosis....
    So excuse me...I love your contributions to this list!

    Ive been reading letters and notes in a digitized version of VL Oliver's History of Antigua
    My pattern of study has been to run searches of certain Scots or Irish names and then browse the references, I've had an opportunity to scan many bits of correspondence associated with these folk. It is amazing just how closely linked many were.
    Very few are going out to the islands "cold" and a lot of people moved around too. The Kin and business "webs" were the primary means of securing opportunities and there were it seems always a few who were more adept at networking than others. For
    instance Dr Walter Tullideph was very active in keeping track of the comings and goings of Scots in the leewards during his time. His surviving letters are full of chat noting the movements of this person or that and their developing or deteriorating
    fortunes. His letterbooks are in Edinburgh but I keep hoping to find a digital copy one of these days as he mentions people I need to study.

    It's very likely Thomas Grey would have had references and or a letter of recommendation to someone on St Croix. Naturally most of this is invisible to us but traces often survive and sometimes doing a broad reconnoitering of the surviving info on the
    community can yield a clue or two. I wish there were more compendiums of mercantile correspondence from the time as that would yield such goodies.
    Im still a raw amateur.
    Cod

    -----Original Message-----
    From: CARIBBEAN [mailto:caribbean-bounces+cmcod=optimum.net@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of lwa101@comcast.net
    Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 8:55 AM
    To: Caribbean List <caribbean@rootsweb.com>
    Subject: [Carib] Newspapering & emigration

    Dear Chris,
    I am just reading emails now and your sage response. Heavens, fella, you mustn’t think I would ever set out to purposefully rap knuckles, so the only viable choice is that my missive (missile?) was meant to provoke a bit of thoughtful reflection by
    all those of us who benefit from journalism yet decline to actually support it. >>
    Which reminds me, thank goodness our forefathers got the news in print and not the et


    ***************************
    The Caribbean List now has a Resources Page at Historic Antigua and Barbuda http://www.rootsweb.com/~atgwgw/
    -------------------------------
    To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARIBBEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

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  • From David Daniell@21:1/5 to Caribbean Rootsweb on Sun Dec 17 17:49:08 2017
    My last message was intended to be private. As it has turned out it is not. So here’s me saying sorry to anyone who takes offence. David



    On 17/12/2017, at 5:39 PM, David Daniell <ddaniell@xtra.co.nz> wrote:

    Hi Laura,

    You once asked about Anquetil Grey and you were not pleased by my answer. Its Grey and not the US-style Gray. Here’s a bit about them in Wikipedia:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_(surname)

    The only surname with more major English and Scotch and Irish titles to its credit is Hamilton

    regards,

    David
    One recent revelation, I had always understood Chris was 20 years older than now he says he is! D



    On 17/12/2017, at 5:11 PM, Comcast <lwa101@comcast.net> wrote:

    Chris, interesting that you mention business correspondence. Should anyone on this list know of someone who can read Danish handwriting, then I have scans of a huge load of documents from the probate of Thomas Gray's estate. These are held in a box in
    Copenhagen, which a fellow traveler was generous enough to photograph. Apparently, they contain all sorts of business transactions. Would adore help in reading them.

    I was in Edinburgh this June. Where do those letter books reside?

    Anyone?

    Cheers,
    Laura

    On Dec 16, 2017, at 9:40 AM, Chris Codrington <cmcod@optimum.net> wrote: >>>
    Hi Laura
    Thanks for your note.
    Indeed...I must be a bit hyper vigilant due to a very intrusive case of lumbar stenosis....
    So excuse me...I love your contributions to this list!

    Ive been reading letters and notes in a digitized version of VL Oliver's History of Antigua
    My pattern of study has been to run searches of certain Scots or Irish names and then browse the references, I've had an opportunity to scan many bits of correspondence associated with these folk. It is amazing just how closely linked many were.
    Very few are going out to the islands "cold" and a lot of people moved around too. The Kin and business "webs" were the primary means of securing opportunities and there were it seems always a few who were more adept at networking than others. For
    instance Dr Walter Tullideph was very active in keeping track of the comings and goings of Scots in the leewards during his time. His surviving letters are full of chat noting the movements of this person or that and their developing or deteriorating
    fortunes. His letterbooks are in Edinburgh but I keep hoping to find a digital copy one of these days as he mentions people I need to study.

    It's very likely Thomas Grey would have had references and or a letter of recommendation to someone on St Croix. Naturally most of this is invisible to us but traces often survive and sometimes doing a broad reconnoitering of the surviving info on
    the community can yield a clue or two. I wish there were more compendiums of mercantile correspondence from the time as that would yield such goodies.
    Im still a raw amateur.
    Cod

    -----Original Message-----
    From: CARIBBEAN [mailto:caribbean-bounces+cmcod=optimum.net@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of lwa101@comcast.net
    Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 8:55 AM
    To: Caribbean List <caribbean@rootsweb.com>
    Subject: [Carib] Newspapering & emigration

    Dear Chris,
    I am just reading emails now and your sage response. Heavens, fella, you mustn’t think I would ever set out to purposefully rap knuckles, so the only viable choice is that my missive (missile?) was meant to provoke a bit of thoughtful reflection by
    all those of us who benefit from journalism yet decline to actually support it. >>>
    Which reminds me, thank goodness our forefathers got the news in print and not the et


    ***************************
    The Caribbean List now has a Resources Page at Historic Antigua and Barbuda http://www.rootsweb.com/~atgwgw/
    -------------------------------
    To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARIBBEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message


    ***************************
    The Caribbean List now has a Resources Page at Historic Antigua and Barbuda http://www.rootsweb.com/~atgwgw/
    -------------------------------
    To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARIBBEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

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  • From Chris Codrington@21:1/5 to All on Sun Dec 17 08:29:01 2017
    So David, why did you think me to be 85? Probably not a pretty answer but hey Carib Gen is a tough game...


    -----Original Message-----
    From: CARIBBEAN [mailto:caribbean-bounces+cmcod=optimum.net@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of David Daniell
    Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 11:49 PM
    To: Caribbean Rootsweb <caribbean@rootsweb.com>
    Subject: Re: [Carib] Scots to West Indies

    My last message was intended to be private. As it has turned out it is not. So here’s me saying sorry to anyone who takes offence. David



    On 17/12/2017, at 5:39 PM, David Daniell <ddaniell@xtra.co.nz> wrote:

    Hi Laura,

    You once asked about Anquetil Grey and you were not pleased by my answer. Its Grey and not the US-style Gray. Here’s a bit about them in Wikipedia:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_(surname)

    The only surname with more major English and Scotch and Irish titles
    to its credit is Hamilton

    regards,

    David
    One recent revelation, I had always understood Chris was 20 years
    older than now he says he is! D

    sage

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chris Codrington@21:1/5 to All on Sun Dec 17 08:45:19 2017
    Indeed surviving correspondence is gold! Re the Grays (Greys etc)
    It is possible someone has translated some of it the details of which are known only in private circles.
    Network it and you may be surprised.
    I found letters between various members of the King family of Portland and St Thomas Jamaica 1808-1830 and in them I found mentions of family members and a variety of people I'd been studying. This included a harrowing description of a night during a
    hurricane in St George and many sad stories of various children and adults healthy one day and stricken down the next. Marriages, dalliances property sales or financial troubles all parade through such sources
    Cod


    -----Original Message-----
    From: CARIBBEAN [mailto:caribbean-bounces+cmcod=optimum.net@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Comcast
    Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 11:12 PM
    To: caribbean@rootsweb.com
    Subject: Re: [Carib] Scots to West Indies

    Chris, interesting that you mention business correspondence. Should anyone on this list know of someone who can read Danish handwriting, then I have scans of a huge load of documents from the probate of Thomas Gray's estate. These are held in a box in
    Copenhagen, which a fellow traveler was generous enough to photograph. Apparently, they contain all sorts of business transactions. Would adore help in reading them.

    I was in Edinburgh this June. Where do those letter books reside?

    Anyone?

    Cheers,
    Laura

    On Dec 16, 2017, at 9:40 AM, Chris Codrington <cmcod@optimum.net> wrote:

    Hi Laura
    Thanks for your note.
    Indeed...I must be a bit hyper vigilant due to a very intrusive case of lumbar stenosis....
    So excuse me...I love your contributions to this list!

    Ive been reading letters and notes in a digitized version of VL
    Oliver's History of Antigua My pattern of study has been to run searches of certain Scots or Irish names and then browse the references, I've had an opportunity to scan many bits of correspondence associated with these folk. It is amazing just how
    closely linked many were.
    Very few are going out to the islands "cold" and a lot of people moved around too. The Kin and business "webs" were the primary means of securing opportunities and there were it seems always a few who were more adept at networking than others. For
    instance Dr Walter Tullideph was very active in keeping track of the comings and goings of Scots in the leewards during his time. His surviving letters are full of chat noting the movements of this person or that and their developing or deteriorating
    fortunes. His letterbooks are in Edinburgh but I keep hoping to find a digital copy one of these days as he mentions people I need to study.

    It's very likely Thomas Grey would have had references and or a letter of recommendation to someone on St Croix. Naturally most of this is invisible to us but traces often survive and sometimes doing a broad reconnoitering of the surviving info on the
    community can yield a clue or two. I wish there were more compendiums of mercantile correspondence from the time as that would yield such goodies.
    Im still a raw amateur.
    Cod

    -----Original Message-----
    From: CARIBBEAN
    [mailto:caribbean-bounces+cmcod=optimum.net@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of lwa101@comcast.net
    Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 8:55 AM
    To: Caribbean List <caribbean@rootsweb.com>
    Subject: [Carib] Newspapering & emigration

    Dear Chris,
    I am just reading emails now and your sage response. Heavens, fella, you mustn’t think I would ever set out to purposefully rap knuckles, so the only viable choice is that my missive (missile?) was meant to provoke a bit of thoughtful reflection by
    all those of us who benefit from journalism yet decline to actually support it.

    Which reminds me, thank goodness our forefathers got the news in print
    and not the et


    ***************************
    The Caribbean List now has a Resources Page at Historic Antigua and Barbuda http://www.rootsweb.com/~atgwgw/
    -------------------------------
    To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARIBBEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From lwa101@comcast.net@21:1/5 to Caribbean List on Sun Dec 17 10:36:15 2017
    Hi, David,
    Glad to be in contact once again.

    No question about the name being frequently interchanged, Gray for Grey. The original parish records I saw in Scotland do have it as Gray, going back to around 1660, as do the guild ledgers, but then, “spelling” as we know it hadn’t been invented,
    so the letters used in a surname much depended upon the person wielding the quill. (The Danish probate records from the 1790s also use Gray, as he used in his signature.)

    Your Anchitell Grey seems to have been of another line altogether (I have seen that given-name spelling also as Anqueti, etc.). Much as I’d like to claim him, he died without heirs. One of the known Anquetil Greys came over with William in 1066. https:/
    /en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchetil_de_Greye, and of course the French origins have it Graieum, Graia.

    Not that I always ken to Wikipedia, but here is a link. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchetil_de_Greye. There’s also an interesting post from the Medieval genealogy pages — listers might enjoy poking around there. http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.
    com/th/read/GEN-MEDIEVAL/2005-04/1114032753 and also on the Viking Answer Lady’s site at http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/ONMensNames.shtml.

    Cheers from a downright cold NC,
    Laura






    On Dec 16, 2017, at 11:39 PM, David Daniell <ddaniell@xtra.co.nz> wrote:

    Hi Laura,

    You once asked about Anquetil Grey and you were not pleased by my answer. Its Grey and not the US-style Gray. Here’s a bit about them in Wikipedia:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_(surname)

    The only surname with more major English and Scotch and Irish titles to its credit is Hamilton

    regards,

    David
    One recent revelation, I had always understood Chris was 20 years older than now he says he is! D



    On 17/12/2017, at 5:11 PM, Comcast <lwa101@comcast.net> wrote:

    Chris, interesting that you mention business correspondence. Should anyone on this list know of someone who can read Danish handwriting, then I have scans of a huge load of documents from the probate of Thomas Gray's estate. These are held in a box in
    Copenhagen, which a fellow traveler was generous enough to photograph. Apparently, they contain all sorts of business transactions. Would adore help in reading them.

    I was in Edinburgh this June. Where do those letter books reside?

    Anyone?

    Cheers,
    Laura

    On Dec 16, 2017, at 9:40 AM, Chris Codrington <cmcod@optimum.net> wrote:

    Hi Laura
    Thanks for your note.
    Indeed...I must be a bit hyper vigilant due to a very intrusive case of lumbar stenosis....
    So excuse me...I love your contributions to this list!

    Ive been reading letters and notes in a digitized version of VL Oliver's History of Antigua
    My pattern of study has been to run searches of certain Scots or Irish names and then browse the references, I've had an opportunity to scan many bits of correspondence associated with these folk. It is amazing just how closely linked many were.
    Very few are going out to the islands "cold" and a lot of people moved around too. The Kin and business "webs" were the primary means of securing opportunities and there were it seems always a few who were more adept at networking than others. For
    instance Dr Walter Tullideph was very active in keeping track of the comings and goings of Scots in the leewards during his time. His surviving letters are full of chat noting the movements of this person or that and their developing or deteriorating
    fortunes. His letterbooks are in Edinburgh but I keep hoping to find a digital copy one of these days as he mentions people I need to study.

    It's very likely Thomas Grey would have had references and or a letter of recommendation to someone on St Croix. Naturally most of this is invisible to us but traces often survive and sometimes doing a broad reconnoitering of the surviving info on the
    community can yield a clue or two. I wish there were more compendiums of mercantile correspondence from the time as that would yield such goodies.
    Im still a raw amateur.
    Cod

    -----Original Message-----
    From: CARIBBEAN [mailto:caribbean-bounces+cmcod=optimum.net@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of lwa101@comcast.net
    Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 8:55 AM
    To: Caribbean List <caribbean@rootsweb.com>
    Subject: [Carib] Newspapering & emigration

    Dear Chris,
    I am just reading emails now and your sage response. Heavens, fella, you mustn’t think I would ever set out to purposefully rap knuckles, so the only viable choice is that my missive (missile?) was meant to provoke a bit of thoughtful reflection by
    all those of us who benefit from journalism yet decline to actually support it. >>
    Which reminds me, thank goodness our forefathers got the news in print and not the et


    ***************************
    The Caribbean List now has a Resources Page at Historic Antigua and Barbuda http://www.rootsweb.com/~atgwgw/
    -------------------------------
    To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARIBBEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message


    ***************************
    The Caribbean List now has a Resources Page at Historic Antigua and Barbuda http://www.rootsweb.com/~atgwgw/
    -------------------------------
    To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARIBBEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bland Tree@21:1/5 to All on Sun Dec 17 21:02:44 2017
    I haven’t taken offence at your ‘private’ email, David, but I suspect the entire population of Scotland may have taken offence at being labelled as whisky! But then again, perhaps not!
    Posted with tongue in cheek (tasting a fine Scotch)!
    Malcolm Bland

    Sent from my iPhone

    On 17 Dec 2017, at 20:54, David Daniell <ddaniell@xtra.co.nz> wrote:

    I’ve forgotten how to search the archives. D

    On 18/12/2017, at 2:29 AM, Chris Codrington <cmcod@optimum.net> wrote:



    So David, why did you think me to be 85? Probably not a pretty answer but hey Carib Gen is a tough game...


    -----Original Message-----
    From: CARIBBEAN [mailto:caribbean-bounces+cmcod=optimum.net@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of David Daniell
    Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 11:49 PM
    To: Caribbean Rootsweb <caribbean@rootsweb.com>
    Subject: Re: [Carib] Scots to West Indies

    My last message was intended to be private. As it has turned out it is not. So here’s me saying sorry to anyone who takes offence. David



    On 17/12/2017, at 5:39 PM, David Daniell <ddaniell@xtra.co.nz> wrote:

    Hi Laura,

    You once asked about Anquetil Grey and you were not pleased by my answer. Its Grey and not the US-style Gray. Here’s a bit about them in Wikipedia:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_(surname)

    The only surname with more major English and Scotch and Irish titles
    to its credit is Hamilton

    regards,

    David
    One recent revelation, I had always understood Chris was 20 years
    older than now he says he is! D

    sage


    ***************************
    The Caribbean List now has a Resources Page at Historic Antigua and Barbuda http://www.rootsweb.com/~atgwgw/
    -------------------------------
    To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARIBBEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message


    ***************************
    The Caribbean List now has a Resources Page at Historic Antigua and Barbuda http://www.rootsweb.com/~atgwgw/
    -------------------------------
    To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARIBBEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

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  • From David Daniell@21:1/5 to Caribbean Rootsweb on Mon Dec 18 09:54:10 2017
    I’ve forgotten how to search the archives. D

    On 18/12/2017, at 2:29 AM, Chris Codrington <cmcod@optimum.net> wrote:



    So David, why did you think me to be 85? Probably not a pretty answer but hey Carib Gen is a tough game...


    -----Original Message-----
    From: CARIBBEAN [mailto:caribbean-bounces+cmcod=optimum.net@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of David Daniell
    Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 11:49 PM
    To: Caribbean Rootsweb <caribbean@rootsweb.com>
    Subject: Re: [Carib] Scots to West Indies

    My last message was intended to be private. As it has turned out it is not. So here’s me saying sorry to anyone who takes offence. David



    On 17/12/2017, at 5:39 PM, David Daniell <ddaniell@xtra.co.nz> wrote:

    Hi Laura,

    You once asked about Anquetil Grey and you were not pleased by my answer. Its Grey and not the US-style Gray. Here’s a bit about them in Wikipedia:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_(surname)

    The only surname with more major English and Scotch and Irish titles
    to its credit is Hamilton

    regards,

    David
    One recent revelation, I had always understood Chris was 20 years
    older than now he says he is! D

    sage


    ***************************
    The Caribbean List now has a Resources Page at Historic Antigua and Barbuda http://www.rootsweb.com/~atgwgw/
    -------------------------------
    To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARIBBEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

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  • From David Daniell@21:1/5 to Caribbean Rootsweb on Mon Dec 18 11:03:37 2017
    Sorry Malcolm, you will have to tackle my Mac’s (maddening) splchkr on that one. It even goes back later to re-change things to its US taste. (!) See, now it even made me make a joke and I nearly missed that. David

    On 18/12/2017, at 10:02 AM, Bland Tree <BlandTree@aol.com> wrote:

    I haven’t taken offence at your ‘private’ email, David, but I suspect the entire population of Scotland may have taken offence at being labelled as whisky! But then again, perhaps not!
    Posted with tongue in cheek (tasting a fine Scotch)!
    Malcolm Bland

    Sent from my iPhone

    On 17 Dec 2017, at 20:54, David Daniell <ddaniell@xtra.co.nz> wrote:

    I’ve forgotten how to search the archives. D

    On 18/12/2017, at 2:29 AM, Chris Codrington <cmcod@optimum.net> wrote:



    So David, why did you think me to be 85? Probably not a pretty answer but hey Carib Gen is a tough game...


    -----Original Message-----
    From: CARIBBEAN [mailto:caribbean-bounces+cmcod=optimum.net@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of David Daniell
    Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 11:49 PM
    To: Caribbean Rootsweb <caribbean@rootsweb.com>
    Subject: Re: [Carib] Scots to West Indies

    My last message was intended to be private. As it has turned out it is not. So here’s me saying sorry to anyone who takes offence. David



    On 17/12/2017, at 5:39 PM, David Daniell <ddaniell@xtra.co.nz> wrote:

    Hi Laura,

    You once asked about Anquetil Grey and you were not pleased by my answer. Its Grey and not the US-style Gray. Here’s a bit about them in Wikipedia:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_(surname)

    The only surname with more major English and Scotch and Irish titles
    to its credit is Hamilton

    regards,

    David
    One recent revelation, I had always understood Chris was 20 years
    older than now he says he is! D

    sage


    ***************************
    The Caribbean List now has a Resources Page at Historic Antigua and Barbuda http://www.rootsweb.com/~atgwgw/
    -------------------------------
    To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARIBBEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message


    ***************************
    The Caribbean List now has a Resources Page at Historic Antigua and Barbuda http://www.rootsweb.com/~atgwgw/
    -------------------------------
    To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARIBBEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message


    ***************************
    The Caribbean List now has a Resources Page at Historic Antigua and Barbuda http://www.rootsweb.com/~atgwgw/
    -------------------------------
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  • From David Daniell@21:1/5 to Caribbean Rootsweb on Mon Dec 18 10:49:15 2017
    That’s all right Laura. Just look in the archives to see how crossed up you are. David

    On 18/12/2017, at 4:36 AM, lwa101@comcast.net wrote:

    Hi, David,
    Glad to be in contact once again.

    No question about the name being frequently interchanged, Gray for Grey. The original parish records I saw in Scotland do have it as Gray, going back to around 1660, as do the guild ledgers, but then, “spelling” as we know it hadn’t been invented,
    so the letters used in a surname much depended upon the person wielding the quill. (The Danish probate records from the 1790s also use Gray, as he used in his signature.)

    Your Anchitell Grey seems to have been of another line altogether (I have seen that given-name spelling also as Anqueti, etc.). Much as I’d like to claim him, he died without heirs. One of the known Anquetil Greys came over with William in 1066.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchetil_de_Greye, and of course the French origins have it Graieum, Graia.

    Not that I always ken to Wikipedia, but here is a link. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchetil_de_Greye. There’s also an interesting post from the Medieval genealogy pages — listers might enjoy poking around there. http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.
    com/th/read/GEN-MEDIEVAL/2005-04/1114032753 and also on the Viking Answer Lady’s site at http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/ONMensNames.shtml.

    Cheers from a downright cold NC,
    Laura






    On Dec 16, 2017, at 11:39 PM, David Daniell <ddaniell@xtra.co.nz> wrote:

    Hi Laura,

    You once asked about Anquetil Grey and you were not pleased by my answer. Its Grey and not the US-style Gray. Here’s a bit about them in Wikipedia:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_(surname)

    The only surname with more major English and Scotch and Irish titles to its credit is Hamilton

    regards,

    David
    One recent revelation, I had always understood Chris was 20 years older than now he says he is! D



    On 17/12/2017, at 5:11 PM, Comcast <lwa101@comcast.net> wrote:

    Chris, interesting that you mention business correspondence. Should anyone on this list know of someone who can read Danish handwriting, then I have scans of a huge load of documents from the probate of Thomas Gray's estate. These are held in a box in
    Copenhagen, which a fellow traveler was generous enough to photograph. Apparently, they contain all sorts of business transactions. Would adore help in reading them.

    I was in Edinburgh this June. Where do those letter books reside?

    Anyone?

    Cheers,
    Laura

    On Dec 16, 2017, at 9:40 AM, Chris Codrington <cmcod@optimum.net> wrote: >>>
    Hi Laura
    Thanks for your note.
    Indeed...I must be a bit hyper vigilant due to a very intrusive case of lumbar stenosis....
    So excuse me...I love your contributions to this list!

    Ive been reading letters and notes in a digitized version of VL Oliver's History of Antigua
    My pattern of study has been to run searches of certain Scots or Irish names and then browse the references, I've had an opportunity to scan many bits of correspondence associated with these folk. It is amazing just how closely linked many were.
    Very few are going out to the islands "cold" and a lot of people moved around too. The Kin and business "webs" were the primary means of securing opportunities and there were it seems always a few who were more adept at networking than others. For
    instance Dr Walter Tullideph was very active in keeping track of the comings and goings of Scots in the leewards during his time. His surviving letters are full of chat noting the movements of this person or that and their developing or deteriorating
    fortunes. His letterbooks are in Edinburgh but I keep hoping to find a digital copy one of these days as he mentions people I need to study.

    It's very likely Thomas Grey would have had references and or a letter of recommendation to someone on St Croix. Naturally most of this is invisible to us but traces often survive and sometimes doing a broad reconnoitering of the surviving info on
    the community can yield a clue or two. I wish there were more compendiums of mercantile correspondence from the time as that would yield such goodies.
    Im still a raw amateur.
    Cod

    -----Original Message-----
    From: CARIBBEAN [mailto:caribbean-bounces+cmcod=optimum.net@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of lwa101@comcast.net
    Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 8:55 AM
    To: Caribbean List <caribbean@rootsweb.com>
    Subject: [Carib] Newspapering & emigration

    Dear Chris,
    I am just reading emails now and your sage response. Heavens, fella, you mustn’t think I would ever set out to purposefully rap knuckles, so the only viable choice is that my missive (missile?) was meant to provoke a bit of thoughtful reflection by
    all those of us who benefit from journalism yet decline to actually support it. >>>
    Which reminds me, thank goodness our forefathers got the news in print and not the et


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  • From Dante C. Beretta@21:1/5 to All on Tue Dec 19 22:43:10 2017
    First, I wanted to say that I’ve enjoyed the increased activity on the list. Second, Chris I have always thought you were young ; )

    Laura, as for Scots and Irish migration to the Danish West Indies especially St. Croix: my understanding it was mainly based on the plantation economy. The Danes were majority in government employ, but planters and overseers were often other
    nationalities- I believe being some of the later settled islands in the Caribbean that it offered some type of opportunity for one to make a mark in a lesser developed place. By the late 1700’s and early 1800’s English was becoming the language of
    the slaves and the general lingua franca of the Danish colony.

    Many English, Scots, and Irish came out as overseers to run plantations of absentee owners. After a time they would earn enough they often bought plantations and became owners. Others worked in trades or as merchants in Christiansted or Frederiksted.
    There were also professionals such as doctors who in addition to fee for service patients would contract to take care of a plantations slaves for a set yearly fee per person.

    As to the horrible Danish Gothic script here is an introduction i found useful: https://www.sa.dk/en/services/arkivalieronline/gothic-script-an-introduction/ <https://www.sa.dk/en/services/arkivalieronline/gothic-script-an-introduction/>
    It has a link to this site on German Gothic script (very similar) which I think has the best information I have seen on the subject.
    https://script.byu.edu/Pages/German/en/alphabet.aspx <https://script.byu.edu/Pages/German/en/alphabet.aspx>

    I have some old Danish deeds, wills, etc. and I’ve been able to decipher some, but yes it is very difficult.

    Dante

    On Dec 16, 2017, at 8:40 AM, caribbean-request@rootsweb.com wrote:

    Could someone suggest good sources to aid my understanding of the Scotland-Caribbean (DWI) connection in the late 1700s, early 1800s? I am looking for economic/cultural reasons for migration from the former to the latter. Looking for why my Thomas Gray,
    stone mason, came out of Haddington (20 miles east of Edinburgh) and thence to St. Croix.

    On Dec 16, 2017, at 10:12 PM, caribbean-request@rootsweb.com wrote:

    Chris, interesting that you mention business correspondence. Should anyone on this list know of someone who can read Danish handwriting, then I have scans of a huge load of documents from the probate of Thomas Gray's estate. These are held in a box in
    Copenhagen, which a fellow traveler was generous enough to photograph. Apparently, they contain all sorts of business transactions. Would adore help in reading them.

    I was in Edinburgh this June. Where do those letter books reside?

    Anyone?

    Cheers,
    Laura

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  • From OOA Q@21:1/5 to All on Wed Dec 20 06:22:23 2017
    In my research, I discovered, in the case of St. Croix and the British Virgin Islands, when the English were in control of St. C, they they had plantation in both places, when control of St. C would change, they would take their slaves back to either
    the BVI or one of the nearby English held Islands.
    Since the English controlled Barbados, whether many of the Irish and Scot were transported during the Cleansing, it stands to reason.
    Ann


    On December 19, 2017, at 8:43 PM, "Dante C. Beretta" <dberetta@meltel.net> wrote:

    First, I wanted to say that Ive enjoyed the increased activity on the list. Second, Chris I have always thought you were young ; )

    Laura, as for Scots and Irish migration to the Danish West Indies especially St. Croix: my understanding it was mainly based on the plantation economy. The Danes were majority in government employ, but planters and overseers were often other
    nationalities- I believe being some of the later settled islands in the Caribbean that it offered some type of opportunity for one to make a mark in a lesser developed place. By the late 1700s and early 1800s English was becoming the language of the
    slaves and the general lingua franca of the Danish colony.

    Many English, Scots, and Irish came out as overseers to run plantations of absentee owners. After a time they would earn enough they often bought plantations and became owners. Others worked in trades or as merchants in Christiansted or Frederiksted.
    There were also professionals such as doctors who in addition to fee for service patients would contract to take care of a plantations slaves for a set yearly fee per person.

    As to the horrible Danish Gothic script here is an introduction i found useful: https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sa.dk%2Fen%2Fservices%2Farkivalieronline%2Fgothic-script-an-introduction%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc831f70b05704c63ecc608d547643a80%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%
    7C636493418159476227&sdata=llTo8k1kKtQ29hwzQGBfVTbtvPFweqYQNrZlV1%2BvARE%3D&reserved=0 <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sa.dk%2Fen%2Fservices%2Farkivalieronline%2Fgothic-script-an-introduction%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%
    7Cc831f70b05704c63ecc608d547643a80%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636493418159476227&sdata=llTo8k1kKtQ29hwzQGBfVTbtvPFweqYQNrZlV1%2BvARE%3D&reserved=0>
    It has a link to this site on German Gothic script (very similar) which I think has the best information I have seen on the subject.
    https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fscript.byu.edu%2FPages%2FGerman%2Fen%2Falphabet.aspx&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc831f70b05704c63ecc608d547643a80%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636493418159476227&sdata=
    cnDM2WjEeD2U83ldJVc5nMTmviAp3hGoxF%2B%2Foq0HV0k%3D&reserved=0 <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fscript.byu.edu%2FPages%2FGerman%2Fen%2Falphabet.aspx&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc831f70b05704c63ecc608d547643a80%
    7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636493418159476227&sdata=cnDM2WjEeD2U83ldJVc5nMTmviAp3hGoxF%2B%2Foq0HV0k%3D&reserved=0>

    I have some old Danish deeds, wills, etc. and Ive been able to decipher some, but yes it is very difficult.

    Dante

    On Dec 16, 2017, at 8:40 AM, caribbean-request@rootsweb.com wrote:

    Could someone suggest good sources to aid my understanding of the Scotland-Caribbean (DWI) connection in the late 1700s, early 1800s? I am looking for economic/cultural reasons for migration from the former to the latter. Looking for why my Thomas Gray,
    stone mason, came out of Haddington (20 miles east of Edinburgh) and thence to St. Croix.

    On Dec 16, 2017, at 10:12 PM, caribbean-request@rootsweb.com wrote:

    Chris, interesting that you mention business correspondence. Should anyone on this list know of someone who can read Danish handwriting, then I have scans of a huge load of documents from the probate of Thomas Gray's estate. These are held in a box in
    Copenhagen, which a fellow traveler was generous enough to photograph. Apparently, they contain all sorts of business transactions. Would adore help in reading them.

    I was in Edinburgh this June. Where do those letter books reside?

    Anyone?

    Cheers,
    Laura

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