Chris,

Thanks for this historical insight. I really wish I could time travel and
just be ghostlike around those 17th century people. Just to see how they
lived with my own eyes. Such interesting times (and of course, the
atrocious human trafficking of Africans was going on all at the same time).
My brick wall is finding that African ancestor who survived the Atlantic crossing.

Cheryl Hazell

On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 11:11 AM, <caribbean-request@rootsweb.com> wrote:

Send CARIBBEAN mailing list submissions to
caribbean@rootsweb.com

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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Today's Topics:

1. Re: CARIBBEAN Digest, Vol 12, Issue 75 (Rod O'Donoghue)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 16:11:38 +0000
From: "Rod O'Donoghue" <rod@odonoghue.co.uk>
To: "'Chris Codrington'" <cmcod@optimum.net>, <caribbean@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [Carib] CARIBBEAN Digest, Vol 12, Issue 75
Message-ID: <002a01d374f6$38d61f50$aa825df0$@odonoghue.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Interesting web site. Thanks, Chris.

Cheers

Rod

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Codrington [mailto:cmcod@optimum.net]
Sent: 14 December 2017 15:39
To: rod@odonoghue.co.uk; caribbean@rootsweb.com
Subject: RE: [Carib] CARIBBEAN Digest, Vol 12, Issue 75

Rod, Jim and others:

There was a lot of "Irish movement" through the west indies throughout the colonial period. In the 17th one of the largest followed the progress of
the
Penn and Venables fleet (see "The Western
Design") from Barbados through the Leewards to Santo Domingue and later the resultant capture of Jamaica (Winter -Spring 1654-55) here's a quote from a nice summary of the fiasco:

"The fleet of eighteen warships and twenty transport vessels set sail from Portsmouth on Christmas Day 1654 and arrived at Barbados a month later. Between three and four thousand additional troops were raised from
volunteers among the indentured servants and freemen in the colonies of Barbados, Montserrat, Nevis and St Kitts to make the numbers of the five original regiments up to
1,000 men each and to form a sixth regiment. The troop numbers looked impressive, but they were untrained and badly disciplined. Furthermore, supplies were running low and the joint commanders Penn and Venables were arguing with one another.
Morale among the soldiers sank lower still when the civilian commissioners stipulated that they were not to plunder the Spanish colonies they were
about to attack but rather to preserve them intact for subsequent English colonisation." {from website below}

http://bcw-project.org/military/anglo-spanish-war/
western-design

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Any general statements pertaining to Who were the

servants in the islands during any given decade must be qualified carefully by time in question because changes between 1640 and 1740 were quite
dramatic (involving what could be called class migration through the developing islands in search of open opportunity be it available land or mercantile/trade all driven by the Sugar Revolution as it forced changes in settlement patterns and land development). Despite some very dramatic material on the net, the majority were Not convicts though plenty were. Indentured service was a common means to secure a place for much of the landless(including the burgeoning middle class!) in England, Ireland and Scotland. Many of the Irish for instance gravitated to Montserrat and many
of those were landholders formerly lesser gentry from the Irish wars. There were in fact Irish freemen on most of the islands and there were also Irish landholders as well. One of the reasons for distrust was their divergent politics and consequent allegiances which were by No means consistent. So they were handled with care and general suspicion in difficult times as
many
(on St Kitts for instance) would throw in with the French one day and the English another. They did not act as a block nor did they all share the
same
politics generally.
But when the chips were down there always seemed to be a bunch of Irishmen
in whatever bunch took Barbuda for a week or went over to the French on St. Kitts or turned a privateer pirate etc.
There were plenty who were individually loyal as well. Because of this and generally bad ethnic relations the English gave the Irish in bad character ratings often...

After the Venables fleet the movement of landless people whether irish or
not tended to move down the leewards and off to Jamaica. Jamaica was wide open to all sorts of things (privateering and piracy being two major attractions) Later after the Port Royal earthquake a lot of "immigrants" chose indentures or passages to the mainland where the servant bond more consistently was land. Those who managed to procure land or a trade more often stayed where they were.

There were complaints from most of the island governors that servants had deserted in droves whenever a fleet passed through. But the Venables fleet was the big one on that score and thereafter the big movement of people was towards Jamaica.
Cod

-----Original Message-----
From: CARIBBEAN
[mailto:caribbean-bounces+cmcod=optimum.net@rootsw
eb.com] On Behalf Of Rod O'Donoghue
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 5:19 AM
To: caribbean@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [Carib] CARIBBEAN Digest, Vol 12, Issue 75

Now that's the sort of thing I am after, Jack. We know that a lot of folk left Barbados in the 17th century to go to Virginia so yours are
potentially
one of those.

Follow up question is how important is your Irish heritage to you? Just an academic exercise or more than that?

Pleased for you to have a look at The O'Donoghue Society site but it is solely O'Donoghue related whereas Jim's is much more all-encompassing.

Thanks for your contribution. Am hoping more folk will join in this discussion.

Cheers

Rod

-----Original Message-----
From: CARIBBEAN
[mailto:caribbean-bounces+rod=odonoghue.co.uk@root
sweb.com]
On Behalf Of caribbean-request@rootsweb.com
Sent: 13 December 2017 21:09
To: caribbean@rootsweb.com
Subject: CARIBBEAN Digest, Vol 12, Issue 75

Send CARIBBEAN mailing list submissions to
caribbean@rootsweb.com

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit

http://lists2.rootsweb.ancestry.com/mailman/listin
fo/caribbean
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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You can reach the person managing the list at
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
"Re: Contents of CARIBBEAN digest..."

Today's Topics:

1. Re: CARIBBEAN Digest, Vol 12, Issue 72; Irish Origins in
Caribbean (Jack Fallin)
2. Re: Irish origins in the Caribbean (Rod
O'Donoghue)

--------------------------------------------------
--------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 13:04:18 -0800
From: "Jack Fallin" <jakff@astound.net>
To: <caribbean@rootsweb.com>
Subject: Re: [Carib] CARIBBEAN Digest, Vol 12, Issue 72; Irish Origins
in Caribbean
Message-ID:
<93A12821-F569-4737-94ED-9100552E3BAC@astound.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Dear Rod and Jim,

It?s only so often that someone breaks loose a topic here that pulls me in, but this one has.

My first recorded immigrant in America was Charles
(I) Fallin [the spelling didn?t fully settle down until the next
generation]
who purchased property in Northumberland County, VA in 1671.

My potential Caribbean leads include:

1. 1641, BARBADOS, MONTSERRAT:

Letter written at Walham [Waltham] Abbey 12th Oct.
1641 from James, 2nd Earl of Carlisle to Gov.
[Henry] Ashton of Barbados:
[Postscript] "there is one Dan?l Fallan of Monserrat with 3 others (wherof Fallan his wife hath addressed her self by peticon here unto me) who along tyme hath stood under Govnor Brisket's censure for a consperacy of Capt. Ayleworth, wch busines I have advise[d] Mr.
Brisket to end him selfe without further trouble.
But if not I do pray & authorize yor selfe to take cognizance hereof upon any of the p?ties addresses to you & to pray Mr Birket & all the p?ty to declare the truth & state of these matters unto you and that you end or
order the same betwixt them sch. If not observed then that you would
certifye me I have written to this purpose to Mr. Brisket doubting some practize agt. Fallon whom I would willingly have repayred yf you finde
cause
in all p'ticulars of his censure I pray informe yor self well herein."

2. 1655, MONTSERRAT

February 7, 1655. Mentions a planter named Daniel Fallon of Montserrat as purchasing goods in 1643, for which money is still owed.

Peter Wilson Coldham, The Complete Book of Emigrants, Vol. 1, 1607-1660, Genealogical Publishing Co., Baltimore. (1987), p.
284. Oliver ed.,
Caribbeana, Mitchell Hughes & Clark, London (1914), Vol III, p. 319.

3. 1662, BARBADOS:

?Barbados Wills ?

Fellon, William ?"

Oliver, Caribbeana, Vol IV, Mitchell Hughes and Clark, London (1916), p.
219.

ABSTRACT

?FELLON, William RB6/15, p. 211

Dep, 4 Nov 1662, John Danyell, age 45; About 10 days before William Fellon died he came to Walter Poore. Being very sick, he bequeathed to his wf &
chn & his kinsm Dennis Fellon?

Sanders, Wills & Administratons, Vol I.
(1639-1680), p. 211.
e-Correspondence from Ernest Wiltshire 11/26/2016.

1680, BARBADOS:

St. Andrews Parish:

ANDREW FALLIN [and] 1 Negro

?

ANDREW FOLLYN [and] 1 Negro [with] 26 Acres.

Also lists 1 Christening (of ANDREW) and 1 Burial.

Hotten, The Original Lists of Persons of Quality etc., Hotten, London
(1874), pp. 470, 471. NOTE:
These two names likely refer to the same person and they correspond to the Andrew Follin whose will was later probated in 1694.

It appears that you have both run down more sources than I?ve been able to find, so I will definitely take a look at your separate sites.

I have gone fully down the DNA road (FTDNA - STRs,
67 and-111marker; - SNPs, Big Y & YFull; 23and Me (standard combination) - YDNA SNPs, autosomal, mitochondrial).

The Y DNA analysis has established my gaelic family as ? Faol?in (most commonly Anglicized as Phelan or Whalen). The ? Faol?in controlled an
area
slightly larger than today?s County Waterford [except for the City itself, which was Viking] until being pushed aside by Norman invaders in
1170 AD.
The family is not the same as ?Fallon,? whose gaelic version was Fallamhain with a territory largely confined to the part of County Roscommon lying between the cities of Athlone (Westmeath)and Galway (Galway).

Jim, you need to be aware that 23andMe has changed their formatting and no longer use the older ?R1b.. etc.? format. My original haplogroup there was R1b1b2a1a2f* ? now it?s the far more easily recognized ?R-L21.? 23andMe?s SNP YDNA testing stops way short of FTDNA's Big Y analysis. For instance,
my current terminal haplogroup, BY11097, is nine levels below R-L21 and
hits
a time estimate to last common ancestor for three of us that?s only about a hundred years back of Charles
(I) Fallin?s time.

Jack Fallin
Walnut Creek, CA

Today's Topics:

2. Irish origins in the Caribbean (Rod

O'Donoghue)

3. Re: Irish origins in the Caribbean (Jim

Lynch)

--------------------------------------------------
--------------------

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 18:36:26 +0000
From: "Rod O'Donoghue" <rod@odonoghue.co.uk>
To: <caribbean@rootsweb.com>
Subject: [Carib] Irish origins in the Caribbean
Message-ID:

<000501d37378$1eaa1890$5bfe49b0$@odonoghue.co.uk>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Do you have an Irish name? Do you know how your

family got it? Do

you know on which islands your family lived in

the past? Do you know

any folktales about Irish-named people?

I would like to start a thread on this subject.

I have done a lot of

research on my own surname (and its variants)

and the Irish in general

in the Caribbean.

If you are not sure if your name is of Irish

origin please ask me. I
will

endeavour to answer any questions people may

have on the Irish

influence on Caribbean history and life, and I

hope to learn a lot of

new

stuff myself.

Looking forward to hearing from anyone

interested in this subject

Cheers

Rod O'Donoghue

Author of 'Heroic Landscapes: Irish Myth and

Legend' and 'O'Donoghue

People and Places'

Founder of The O'Donoghue Society and The Irish

Folklore Centre

<https://www.odonoghue.co.uk>

https://www.odonoghue.co.uk

Email: <mailto:rod@odonoghue.co.uk>

rod@odonoghue.co.uk

Family history:

https://ballyduffodonoghue.blogspot.co.uk/

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 14:17:54 -0500
From: Jim Lynch <jimlynch@caribbeanavenue.com>
To: <rod@odonoghue.co.uk>,

<caribbean@rootsweb.com>

Subject: Re: [Carib] Irish origins in the

Caribbean

Message-ID:

<f8254cda699966bc1ed31ea6aa2c309d@caribbeanavenue.

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII";

format=flowed

My research is blocked by a "brick wall" - from

a complete and utter

lack of records of the day.

BUT, when I researched the Lynch family name in

the Caribbean I did

not encounter the dastardy Sir Thomas as a

possible relative but

another Irish merchant Lynch family in Jamaica

who, upon becoming

successful beyond their wildest dreams, had kin

streaming out of

Ireland to share the wealth.

This other Jamaica Lynch family could not have

been related to Sir

Thomas. At the time the Irish were not trusted,

and were considered

sub-human, by the English - would never have

been allowed at the Royal

Court, far less receive a Royal Appointment to

either knighthood or

Governor of Jamaica, as Sir Thomas became.

When the overflow became too much to support,

some were told to seek

their fortunes elsewhere, and I discovered that

a contingent went to

Barbados, where they, too, were successful.

My "brick wall" is Hamlet Mayers Lynch, a free

mulatto b.ca.1769

d.1852, who started a family with a free negro

woman named Minifred or

Menifred (both of her names are documented).

Apart from the baptisms with her named as the

mother, no other BCBMDB

(Birth, Christening, Baptism, Marriage, Death,

Burial) records for

Barbados (that I can find) contain any

references whatsoever to either

individual. Minifred just disappeared, there is

a note somewhere that

Hamlet was buried "in St. Stephens Chapel", but

there is no trace of

him anywhere at that church.

I call them the "spaceship" relatives, since

they just appeared,

started the family, and then eventually just

disappeared without

trace. There are records of Hamlet's activities

- slave ownership,

property purchases, and I also have his will,

but no official records

of primary events.

There are several new Hamlet Lynch baptisms

around the same time -

such as Hamlet Fairchild Lynch in 1776/7 - with

negro woman as

mothers, those with a Hassel/Hasel/Hazel Lynch

as father. Hassel Lynch

was third or fourth generation from the Jamaica

Lynch Irish merchant

arrivals I referred to.

I do know there was a Nicholas Lynch who in

Hottens was referenced as

taking a Barque to nevis as a servant of

Codrington, but I cannot find

any link between him and the Jamaica Lynch

family.

BTW, I am in contact with three living direct

descendants of that

Jamaica Lynch family, and the one who did the

DNA test appears to be

related somehow - although I cannot afford to

have an expert examine

the evidence.

I have no documented proof of anything, so I

make no claims.

If you are not aware of it, I created the

Caribbean Surname Index as a

long-term "set and forget" resource for luring

possible family members

into making contact. This sounds like a

reasonable subject for

circulation to my 1800+ users for discussion and

response.

Registration and use by searchers and

researchers alike is free, and

because I permit no SPAM or advertising I

administrate it manually -

registration is manual and I monitor all Posts

daily to keep it

squeaky

clean.

http://www.candoo.com/surnames/index.php

Best wishes,

Jim Lynch

--

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 21:08:57 +0000
From: "Rod O'Donoghue" <rod@odonoghue.co.uk>
To: "'Jim Lynch'" <jimlynch@caribbeanavenue.com>,
<caribbean@rootsweb.com>
Subject: Re: [Carib] Irish origins in the Caribbean
Message-ID:
<000301d37456$97b24ad0$c716e070$@odonoghue.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Jim

My research over the last 15 years started with O'Donoghues (however spelt) in the archives and I made contact with all those in the phone books.
Did some research for some of them as few knew much about their family history - mainly on Montserrat, Antigua and St Kitts. Then I moved on to
the Irish in general.

I have used Oliver and Caribbeana quite a bit and I used Hotten's Lists in the Barbados archives (there were O'Donoghues) - Omitted Chapters I am not sure. Will go over the others in the BHMS next visit, so thanks for that.

Sir Thomas appears to have been born in Kent, so English as you say,
actually probably Anglo-Norman, de Lench. The Lynches were perhaps the
most
important of the Tribes of Galway and there must be records of where they went in the Caribbean. O'Callaghan calls him an Irishman, probably assumed so.

I imagine that you aware of the origin of the Lynch name and its
importance
in Ireland? Don't want to waste your time. If not, I will transmit.

"Research Specialties - Irish in the Caribbean"
sounds good

My hope with this thread is to see how far people feel/know that they have
an Irish heritage and how they support that feeling/knowledge (family history). From that I can explore how important it is to them. I remember Sir Howard Fergus saying to me that African origins are most people's focus and I would like to test that.

And also how far Irish influences are incorporated in Caribbean folktales. This might need a separate thread? There is an Irish folktale about
Jamaica, so I am hoping there are ones going the other way.

Good luck with your airline project.

Cheers

Rod

Sorry to repeat, Jim, I should have pressed Reply all

Rod O'Donoghue
Author of 'Heroic Landscapes: Irish Myth and Legend' and 'O'Donoghue
People
and Places'
Founder of The O'Donoghue Society and The Irish Folklore Centre https://www.odonoghue.co.uk
Email: rod@odonoghue.co.uk
Family history:
https://ballyduffodonoghue.blogspot.co.uk/

-----Original Message-----
From: Rod O'Donoghue [mailto:rod@odonoghue.co.uk]
Sent: 12 December 2017 20:24
To: 'Jim Lynch' <jimlynch@caribbeanavenue.com>; 'caribbean@rootsweb.com' <caribbean@rootsweb.com>
Subject: RE: [Carib] Irish origins in the Caribbean

Good to 'meet' you, Jim. I recognise the Lynch name as one of the Tribes
of
Galway adventurers and Sir Thomas is also a character I am very aware of. Lynch is an early name historically.

During my research into historical records in many islands I have made a point of noting every Irish surname I have found. I am in the process of building a table from these and identifying where each name is most likely
to have come from in Ireland. Lynch appears in Jamaica, Antigua and Montserrat so far - long way to go through my notes yet.

In The O'Donoghue Society we run a yDNA programme with 287 participants. I have been trying to get a Caribbean resident O'Donoghue (however spelt,
there are over 500 variants) to do the test without success so far. My
goal
is to see whether some folk of the name carry recognisable Irish markers.
We use FTDNA and I note that they have a Lynch project with 197
participants.

I was not aware of your site - what a fantastic piece of work and resource.
I will spend some proper time going over all the Irish context material there. I would certainly like to sign on with my project. We both administer our web site efforts (I also allow no
SPAM/advertising) singlehandedly so I know what it is like. Your guidance
on how to structure a
thread(s) on your site to achieve my goals would be much appreciated.

I spend regular time each year in the Caribbean.
These days, with my advancing years, I stay in Barbados but over time I
have
visited over two dozen islands.

Let's keep this dialogue going

Cheers

Rod

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Lynch
[mailto:jimlynch@caribbeanavenue.com]
Sent: 12 December 2017 19:18
To: rod@odonoghue.co.uk; caribbean@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [Carib] Irish origins in the Caribbean

My research is blocked by a "brick wall" - from a complete and utter lack
of
records of the day.

BUT, when I researched the Lynch family name in the Caribbean I did not encounter the dastardy Sir Thomas as a possible relative but another Irish merchant Lynch family in Jamaica who, upon becoming successful beyond their wildest dreams, had kin streaming out of Ireland to share the wealth.

This other Jamaica Lynch family could not have been related to Sir Thomas.
At the time the Irish were not trusted, and were considered sub-human, by
the English - would never have been allowed at the Royal Court, far less receive a Royal Appointment to either knighthood or Governor of Jamaica, as Sir Thomas became.

When the overflow became too much to support, some were told to seek their fortunes elsewhere, and I discovered that a contingent went to Barbados, where they, too, were successful.

My "brick wall" is Hamlet Mayers Lynch, a free mulatto b.ca.1769 d.1852,
who
started a family with a free negro woman named Minifred or Menifred (both
of
her names are documented).

Apart from the baptisms with her named as the mother, no other BCBMDB
(Birth, Christening, Baptism, Marriage, Death, Burial) records for Barbados (that I can find) contain any references whatsoever to either individual. Minifred just disappeared, there is a note somewhere that Hamlet was buried "in St. Stephens Chapel", but there is no trace of him anywhere at that church.

I call them the "spaceship" relatives, since they just appeared, started
the
family, and then eventually just disappeared without trace. There are
records of Hamlet's activities - slave ownership, property purchases, and I also have his will, but no official records of primary events.

There are several new Hamlet Lynch baptisms around the same time - such as Hamlet Fairchild Lynch in
1776/7 - with negro woman as mothers, those with a Hassel/Hasel/Hazel Lynch as father. Hassel Lynch was third or fourth generation from the Jamaica
Lynch Irish merchant arrivals I referred to.

I do know there was a Nicholas Lynch who in Hottens was referenced as
taking
a Barque to nevis as a servant of Codrington, but I cannot find any link between him and the Jamaica Lynch family.

BTW, I am in contact with three living direct descendants of that Jamaica Lynch family, and the one who did the DNA test appears to be related
somehow
- although I cannot afford to have an expert examine the evidence.

I have no documented proof of anything, so I make no claims.

If you are not aware of it, I created the Caribbean Surname Index as a long-term "set and forget" resource for luring possible family members into making contact. This sounds like a reasonable subject for circulation to my 1800+ users for discussion and response.
Registration and use by
1800+ searchers
and researchers alike is free, and because I permit no SPAM or advertising
I
administrate it manually - registration is manual and I monitor all Posts daily to keep it squeaky clean.
http://www.candoo.com/surnames/index.php

Best wishes,

Jim Lynch

--

On 12/12/2017 01:36 PM, Rod O'Donoghue wrote:

Do you have an Irish name? Do you know how your

family got it? Do

you know on which islands your family lived in

the past? Do you know

any folktales about Irish-named people?

I would like to start a thread on this subject.

I have done a lot of

research on my own surname (and its variants)

and the Irish in general

in the Caribbean.

If you are not sure if your name is of Irish

origin please ask me. I

will
endeavour to answer any questions people may

have on the Irish

influence on Caribbean history and life, and I

hope to learn a lot of

new stuff myself.

Looking forward to hearing from anyone

interested in this subject

Cheers

Rod O'Donoghue

Author of 'Heroic Landscapes: Irish Myth and

Legend' and 'O'Donoghue

People and Places'

Founder of The O'Donoghue Society and The Irish

Folklore Centre

<https://www.odonoghue.co.uk>

https://www.odonoghue.co.uk

Email: <mailto:rod@odonoghue.co.uk>

rod@odonoghue.co.uk

Family history:

https://ballyduffodonoghue.blogspot.co.uk/

***************************
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Barbuda http://www.rootsweb.com/~atgwgw/
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