• [Carib] Irish origins in the Caribbean

    From Rod O'Donoghue@21:1/5 to All on Tue Dec 12 18:36:26 2017
    Do you have an Irish name? Do you know how your family got it? Do you know
    on which islands your family lived in the past? Do you know any folktales about Irish-named people?



    I would like to start a thread on this subject. I have done a lot of
    research on my own surname (and its variants) and the Irish in general in
    the Caribbean.



    If you are not sure if your name is of Irish origin please ask me. I will endeavour to answer any questions people may have on the Irish influence on Caribbean history and life, and I hope to learn a lot of new stuff myself.



    Looking forward to hearing from anyone interested in this subject



    Cheers



    Rod O'Donoghue

    Author of 'Heroic Landscapes: Irish Myth and Legend' and 'O'Donoghue People and Places'

    Founder of The O'Donoghue Society and The Irish Folklore Centre

    <https://www.odonoghue.co.uk> https://www.odonoghue.co.uk

    Email: <mailto:rod@odonoghue.co.uk> rod@odonoghue.co.uk

    Family history: https://ballyduffodonoghue.blogspot.co.uk/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Lynch@21:1/5 to Rod O'Donoghue on Tue Dec 12 14:17:54 2017
    To: caribbean@rootsweb.com

    My research is blocked by a "brick wall" - from a complete and utter
    lack of records of the day.

    BUT, when I researched the Lynch family name in the Caribbean I did not encounter the dastardy Sir Thomas as a possible relative but another
    Irish merchant Lynch family in Jamaica who, upon becoming successful
    beyond their wildest dreams, had kin streaming out of Ireland to share
    the wealth.

    This other Jamaica Lynch family could not have been related to Sir
    Thomas. At the time the Irish were not trusted, and were considered
    sub-human, by the English - would never have been allowed at the Royal
    Court, far less receive a Royal Appointment to either knighthood or
    Governor of Jamaica, as Sir Thomas became.

    When the overflow became too much to support, some were told to seek
    their fortunes elsewhere, and I discovered that a contingent went to
    Barbados, where they, too, were successful.

    My "brick wall" is Hamlet Mayers Lynch, a free mulatto b.ca.1769 d.1852,
    who started a family with a free negro woman named Minifred or Menifred
    (both of her names are documented).

    Apart from the baptisms with her named as the mother, no other BCBMDB
    (Birth, Christening, Baptism, Marriage, Death, Burial) records for
    Barbados (that I can find) contain any references whatsoever to either individual. Minifred just disappeared, there is a note somewhere that
    Hamlet was buried "in St. Stephens Chapel", but there is no trace of him anywhere at that church.

    I call them the "spaceship" relatives, since they just appeared, started
    the family, and then eventually just disappeared without trace. There
    are records of Hamlet's activities - slave ownership, property
    purchases, and I also have his will, but no official records of primary
    events.

    There are several new Hamlet Lynch baptisms around the same time - such
    as Hamlet Fairchild Lynch in 1776/7 - with negro woman as mothers, those
    with a Hassel/Hasel/Hazel Lynch as father. Hassel Lynch was third or
    fourth generation from the Jamaica Lynch Irish merchant arrivals I
    referred to.

    I do know there was a Nicholas Lynch who in Hottens was referenced as
    taking a Barque to nevis as a servant of Codrington, but I cannot find
    any link between him and the Jamaica Lynch family.

    BTW, I am in contact with three living direct descendants of that
    Jamaica Lynch family, and the one who did the DNA test appears to be
    related somehow - although I cannot afford to have an expert examine the evidence.

    I have no documented proof of anything, so I make no claims.

    If you are not aware of it, I created the Caribbean Surname Index as a long-term "set and forget" resource for luring possible family members
    into making contact. This sounds like a reasonable subject for
    circulation to my 1800+ users for discussion and response. Registration
    and use by searchers and researchers alike is free, and because I permit
    no SPAM or advertising I administrate it manually - registration is
    manual and I monitor all Posts daily to keep it squeaky clean. http://www.candoo.com/surnames/index.php

    Best wishes,

    Jim Lynch

    --

    On 12/12/2017 01:36 PM, Rod O'Donoghue wrote:
    Do you have an Irish name? Do you know how your family got it? Do you
    know
    on which islands your family lived in the past? Do you know any
    folktales
    about Irish-named people?



    I would like to start a thread on this subject. I have done a lot of research on my own surname (and its variants) and the Irish in general
    in
    the Caribbean.



    If you are not sure if your name is of Irish origin please ask me. I
    will
    endeavour to answer any questions people may have on the Irish
    influence on
    Caribbean history and life, and I hope to learn a lot of new stuff
    myself.



    Looking forward to hearing from anyone interested in this subject



    Cheers



    Rod O'Donoghue

    Author of 'Heroic Landscapes: Irish Myth and Legend' and 'O'Donoghue
    People
    and Places'

    Founder of The O'Donoghue Society and The Irish Folklore Centre

    <https://www.odonoghue.co.uk> https://www.odonoghue.co.uk

    Email: <mailto:rod@odonoghue.co.uk> rod@odonoghue.co.uk

    Family history: https://ballyduffodonoghue.blogspot.co.uk/



    ***************************
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    Barbuda http://www.rootsweb.com/~atgwgw/
    -------------------------------
    To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARIBBEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
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  • From Rod O'Donoghue@21:1/5 to Jim Lynch on Tue Dec 12 20:24:00 2017
    To: caribbean@rootsweb.com

    Good to 'meet' you, Jim. I recognise the Lynch name as one of the Tribes of Galway adventurers and Sir Thomas is also a character I am very aware of.
    Lynch is an early name historically.

    During my research into historical records in many islands I have made a
    point of noting every Irish surname I have found. I am in the process of building a table from these and identifying where each name is most likely
    to have come from in Ireland. Lynch appears in Jamaica, Antigua and
    Montserrat so far - long way to go through my notes yet.

    In The O'Donoghue Society we run a yDNA programme with 287 participants. I have been trying to get a Caribbean resident O'Donoghue (however spelt,
    there are over 500 variants) to do the test without success so far. My goal
    is to see whether some folk of the name carry recognisable Irish markers.
    We use FTDNA and I note that they have a Lynch project with 197
    participants.

    I was not aware of your site - what a fantastic piece of work and resource.
    I will spend some proper time going over all the Irish context material
    there. I would certainly like to sign on with my project. We both
    administer our web site efforts (I also allow no SPAM/advertising) singlehandedly so I know what it is like. Your guidance on how to structure
    a thread(s) on your site to achieve my goals would be much appreciated.

    I spend regular time each year in the Caribbean. These days, with my
    advancing years, I stay in Barbados but over time I have visited over two
    dozen islands.

    Let's keep this dialogue going

    Cheers

    Rod



    -----Original Message-----
    From: Jim Lynch [mailto:jimlynch@caribbeanavenue.com]
    Sent: 12 December 2017 19:18
    To: rod@odonoghue.co.uk; caribbean@rootsweb.com
    Subject: Re: [Carib] Irish origins in the Caribbean

    My research is blocked by a "brick wall" - from a complete and utter lack of records of the day.

    BUT, when I researched the Lynch family name in the Caribbean I did not encounter the dastardy Sir Thomas as a possible relative but another Irish merchant Lynch family in Jamaica who, upon becoming successful beyond their wildest dreams, had kin streaming out of Ireland to share the wealth.

    This other Jamaica Lynch family could not have been related to Sir Thomas.
    At the time the Irish were not trusted, and were considered sub-human, by
    the English - would never have been allowed at the Royal Court, far less receive a Royal Appointment to either knighthood or Governor of Jamaica, as
    Sir Thomas became.

    When the overflow became too much to support, some were told to seek their fortunes elsewhere, and I discovered that a contingent went to Barbados,
    where they, too, were successful.

    My "brick wall" is Hamlet Mayers Lynch, a free mulatto b.ca.1769 d.1852, who started a family with a free negro woman named Minifred or Menifred (both of her names are documented).

    Apart from the baptisms with her named as the mother, no other BCBMDB
    (Birth, Christening, Baptism, Marriage, Death, Burial) records for Barbados (that I can find) contain any references whatsoever to either individual. Minifred just disappeared, there is a note somewhere that Hamlet was buried
    "in St. Stephens Chapel", but there is no trace of him anywhere at that
    church.

    I call them the "spaceship" relatives, since they just appeared, started the family, and then eventually just disappeared without trace. There are
    records of Hamlet's activities - slave ownership, property purchases, and I also have his will, but no official records of primary events.

    There are several new Hamlet Lynch baptisms around the same time - such as Hamlet Fairchild Lynch in 1776/7 - with negro woman as mothers, those with a Hassel/Hasel/Hazel Lynch as father. Hassel Lynch was third or fourth
    generation from the Jamaica Lynch Irish merchant arrivals I referred to.

    I do know there was a Nicholas Lynch who in Hottens was referenced as taking
    a Barque to nevis as a servant of Codrington, but I cannot find any link between him and the Jamaica Lynch family.

    BTW, I am in contact with three living direct descendants of that Jamaica
    Lynch family, and the one who did the DNA test appears to be related somehow
    - although I cannot afford to have an expert examine the evidence.

    I have no documented proof of anything, so I make no claims.

    If you are not aware of it, I created the Caribbean Surname Index as a long-term "set and forget" resource for luring possible family members into making contact. This sounds like a reasonable subject for circulation to my 1800+ users for discussion and response. Registration and use by searchers
    and researchers alike is free, and because I permit no SPAM or advertising I administrate it manually - registration is manual and I monitor all Posts
    daily to keep it squeaky clean.
    http://www.candoo.com/surnames/index.php

    Best wishes,

    Jim Lynch

    --

    On 12/12/2017 01:36 PM, Rod O'Donoghue wrote:
    Do you have an Irish name? Do you know how your family got it? Do
    you know on which islands your family lived in the past? Do you know
    any folktales about Irish-named people?



    I would like to start a thread on this subject. I have done a lot of research on my own surname (and its variants) and the Irish in general
    in the Caribbean.



    If you are not sure if your name is of Irish origin please ask me. I
    will
    endeavour to answer any questions people may have on the Irish
    influence on Caribbean history and life, and I hope to learn a lot of
    new stuff myself.



    Looking forward to hearing from anyone interested in this subject



    Cheers



    Rod O'Donoghue

    Author of 'Heroic Landscapes: Irish Myth and Legend' and 'O'Donoghue
    People and Places'

    Founder of The O'Donoghue Society and The Irish Folklore Centre

    <https://www.odonoghue.co.uk> https://www.odonoghue.co.uk

    Email: <mailto:rod@odonoghue.co.uk> rod@odonoghue.co.uk

    Family history: https://ballyduffodonoghue.blogspot.co.uk/



    ***************************
    The Caribbean List now has a Resources Page at Historic Antigua and
    Barbuda http://www.rootsweb.com/~atgwgw/
    -------------------------------
    To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARIBBEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
    quotes in the subject and the body of the message

    ______________________________________________________________________
    This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
    For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com ______________________________________________________________________

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  • From Jim Lynch@21:1/5 to Rod O'Donoghue on Tue Dec 12 17:19:46 2017
    To: caribbean@rootsweb.com
    Copy: caribbean-bounces+caribl=caribbeanavenue.com@rootsweb.com (CARIBBEAN)

    Hi, Rod...

    You can scratch VL Oliver's "History of Antigua" (3 volumes) and
    "Caribbeana" (7 volumes) from possible sources of O'Donaghue in the
    Caribbean, I have all 10 and the name is not in the indexes. Also from Brandow's "Genealogies of Barbados Damilies". Also not listed in the
    Index of Truxes' "Irish-American Trade, 1660-1783".

    Have you checked Hotten's "Lists" and Hotten's "Omitted Chapters"??

    My own database - on-line - has almost 24,000 entries, but no O'Donoghue
    at all. Sorry.

    The Registration TOU and link to the form is here... http://www.candoo.com/surnames/viewtopic.php?t=6939

    IMHO Sir Thomas Lynch was an Englishman - for the attitude I stated
    against the Irish of the day.

    A very long time ago I did a Google search for a Lynch in Ireland who
    may have had connections with the Caribbean, and I did find a reference
    in the Irish national Library which suggested a Michael Lynch had
    Caribbean property and/or relatives in the Caribbean (unspecified),
    although I don't remember what the source was or where his domicile was (Galway? Dublin?).

    I do have a contact in Ireland who used to go to the INL, but since she
    offered to look it up I have not had a response, so I doubt she
    remembered it. I don't make assumptions, and I don't push people for
    help.

    For future reference I am also in the FTDNA with a Y-DNA test (at
    maximum 111 markers), ID is N59986. I did join the FTDNA Lynch Group.

    My YSearch is GZ7SE, and my GEDMatch assigned kit number is A769618
    (also earlier T579192, M772417, M842252). I am also in 23andMe, it says
    I am 25.8% British and Irish (no separation), broadly NorthEast European
    (from as far west as Ireland) 34.4%.

    Other info...
    Haplogroup: R1b1b2a1a
    Shorthand: R-U106
    Y-DNA Haplogroup: R-M207 (?)
    Subgroup: R1b1b2a*-S128

    I am semi-retired on a small fixed pension, so I can't afford to have a specialist do any DNA research for me - matching and commenting - so
    there it lays for now.

    Semi-retired, because I still put in seven 12-hour days a week honing my regional airline proposal and seeking funding. It has been two years
    now, and no luck yet, but it is a LOT of money I am asking for in a 100%
    loan. Western financial institutions immediately gag at the proposal,
    all they seem to be interested in is zero-risk projects in which the
    borrower first has to prove they don't need the money. So I think if I
    do ever get the funding it will be from an Eastern source.

    I started aviation life as an Air Traffic Controller about 1968, passed
    through charter pilot to airline work, and was medically retired from
    flying in 1996 with a screwed-up cataract operation. The retina fixed
    itself after six or seven years, and by that time I was living in Canada
    and driving huge buses through Toronto.

    On adding your Project, how about a Specialty Board as "Research
    Specialties - Irish in the Caribbean"? Let me know.

    Later...

    Jim

    --

    On 12/12/2017 03:24 PM, Rod O'Donoghue wrote:
    Good to 'meet' you, Jim. I recognise the Lynch name as one of the
    Tribes of
    Galway adventurers and Sir Thomas is also a character I am very aware
    of.
    Lynch is an early name historically.

    During my research into historical records in many islands I have made
    a
    point of noting every Irish surname I have found. I am in the process
    of
    building a table from these and identifying where each name is most
    likely
    to have come from in Ireland. Lynch appears in Jamaica, Antigua and Montserrat so far - long way to go through my notes yet.

    In The O'Donoghue Society we run a yDNA programme with 287
    participants. I
    have been trying to get a Caribbean resident O'Donoghue (however spelt,
    there are over 500 variants) to do the test without success so far. My
    goal
    is to see whether some folk of the name carry recognisable Irish
    markers.
    We use FTDNA and I note that they have a Lynch project with 197
    participants.

    I was not aware of your site - what a fantastic piece of work and
    resource.
    I will spend some proper time going over all the Irish context material there. I would certainly like to sign on with my project. We both administer our web site efforts (I also allow no SPAM/advertising) singlehandedly so I know what it is like. Your guidance on how to
    structure
    a thread(s) on your site to achieve my goals would be much appreciated.

    I spend regular time each year in the Caribbean. These days, with my advancing years, I stay in Barbados but over time I have visited over
    two
    dozen islands.

    Let's keep this dialogue going

    Cheers

    Rod

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rod O'Donoghue@21:1/5 to Jim Lynch on Wed Dec 13 21:08:57 2017
    To: caribbean@rootsweb.com

    Jim

    My research over the last 15 years started with O'Donoghues (however spelt)
    in the archives and I made contact with all those in the phone books. Did
    some research for some of them as few knew much about their family history - mainly on Montserrat, Antigua and St Kitts. Then I moved on to the Irish in general.

    I have used Oliver and Caribbeana quite a bit and I used Hotten's Lists in
    the Barbados archives (there were O'Donoghues) - Omitted Chapters I am not sure. Will go over the others in the BHMS next visit, so thanks for that.

    Sir Thomas appears to have been born in Kent, so English as you say,
    actually probably Anglo-Norman, de Lench. The Lynches were perhaps the most important of the Tribes of Galway and there must be records of where they
    went in the Caribbean. O'Callaghan calls him an Irishman, probably assumed
    so.

    I imagine that you aware of the origin of the Lynch name and its importance
    in Ireland? Don't want to waste your time. If not, I will transmit.

    "Research Specialties - Irish in the Caribbean" sounds good

    My hope with this thread is to see how far people feel/know that they have
    an Irish heritage and how they support that feeling/knowledge (family
    history). From that I can explore how important it is to them. I remember
    Sir Howard Fergus saying to me that African origins are most people's focus
    and I would like to test that.

    And also how far Irish influences are incorporated in Caribbean folktales.
    This might need a separate thread? There is an Irish folktale about
    Jamaica, so I am hoping there are ones going the other way.

    Good luck with your airline project.

    Cheers

    Rod

    Sorry to repeat, Jim, I should have pressed Reply all

    Rod O'Donoghue
    Author of 'Heroic Landscapes: Irish Myth and Legend' and 'O'Donoghue People and Places'
    Founder of The O'Donoghue Society and The Irish Folklore Centre https://www.odonoghue.co.uk
    Email: rod@odonoghue.co.uk
    Family history: https://ballyduffodonoghue.blogspot.co.uk/

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Rod O'Donoghue [mailto:rod@odonoghue.co.uk]
    Sent: 12 December 2017 20:24
    To: 'Jim Lynch' <jimlynch@caribbeanavenue.com>; 'caribbean@rootsweb.com' <caribbean@rootsweb.com>
    Subject: RE: [Carib] Irish origins in the Caribbean

    Good to 'meet' you, Jim. I recognise the Lynch name as one of the Tribes of Galway adventurers and Sir Thomas is also a character I am very aware of.
    Lynch is an early name historically.

    During my research into historical records in many islands I have made a
    point of noting every Irish surname I have found. I am in the process of building a table from these and identifying where each name is most likely
    to have come from in Ireland. Lynch appears in Jamaica, Antigua and
    Montserrat so far - long way to go through my notes yet.

    In The O'Donoghue Society we run a yDNA programme with 287 participants. I have been trying to get a Caribbean resident O'Donoghue (however spelt,
    there are over 500 variants) to do the test without success so far. My goal
    is to see whether some folk of the name carry recognisable Irish markers.
    We use FTDNA and I note that they have a Lynch project with 197
    participants.

    I was not aware of your site - what a fantastic piece of work and resource.
    I will spend some proper time going over all the Irish context material
    there. I would certainly like to sign on with my project. We both
    administer our web site efforts (I also allow no SPAM/advertising) singlehandedly so I know what it is like. Your guidance on how to structure
    a thread(s) on your site to achieve my goals would be much appreciated.

    I spend regular time each year in the Caribbean. These days, with my
    advancing years, I stay in Barbados but over time I have visited over two
    dozen islands.

    Let's keep this dialogue going

    Cheers

    Rod



    -----Original Message-----
    From: Jim Lynch [mailto:jimlynch@caribbeanavenue.com]
    Sent: 12 December 2017 19:18
    To: rod@odonoghue.co.uk; caribbean@rootsweb.com
    Subject: Re: [Carib] Irish origins in the Caribbean

    My research is blocked by a "brick wall" - from a complete and utter lack of records of the day.

    BUT, when I researched the Lynch family name in the Caribbean I did not encounter the dastardy Sir Thomas as a possible relative but another Irish merchant Lynch family in Jamaica who, upon becoming successful beyond their wildest dreams, had kin streaming out of Ireland to share the wealth.

    This other Jamaica Lynch family could not have been related to Sir Thomas.
    At the time the Irish were not trusted, and were considered sub-human, by
    the English - would never have been allowed at the Royal Court, far less receive a Royal Appointment to either knighthood or Governor of Jamaica, as
    Sir Thomas became.

    When the overflow became too much to support, some were told to seek their fortunes elsewhere, and I discovered that a contingent went to Barbados,
    where they, too, were successful.

    My "brick wall" is Hamlet Mayers Lynch, a free mulatto b.ca.1769 d.1852, who started a family with a free negro woman named Minifred or Menifred (both of her names are documented).

    Apart from the baptisms with her named as the mother, no other BCBMDB
    (Birth, Christening, Baptism, Marriage, Death, Burial) records for Barbados (that I can find) contain any references whatsoever to either individual. Minifred just disappeared, there is a note somewhere that Hamlet was buried
    "in St. Stephens Chapel", but there is no trace of him anywhere at that
    church.

    I call them the "spaceship" relatives, since they just appeared, started the family, and then eventually just disappeared without trace. There are
    records of Hamlet's activities - slave ownership, property purchases, and I also have his will, but no official records of primary events.

    There are several new Hamlet Lynch baptisms around the same time - such as Hamlet Fairchild Lynch in 1776/7 - with negro woman as mothers, those with a Hassel/Hasel/Hazel Lynch as father. Hassel Lynch was third or fourth
    generation from the Jamaica Lynch Irish merchant arrivals I referred to.

    I do know there was a Nicholas Lynch who in Hottens was referenced as taking
    a Barque to nevis as a servant of Codrington, but I cannot find any link between him and the Jamaica Lynch family.

    BTW, I am in contact with three living direct descendants of that Jamaica
    Lynch family, and the one who did the DNA test appears to be related somehow
    - although I cannot afford to have an expert examine the evidence.

    I have no documented proof of anything, so I make no claims.

    If you are not aware of it, I created the Caribbean Surname Index as a long-term "set and forget" resource for luring possible family members into making contact. This sounds like a reasonable subject for circulation to my 1800+ users for discussion and response. Registration and use by searchers
    and researchers alike is free, and because I permit no SPAM or advertising I administrate it manually - registration is manual and I monitor all Posts
    daily to keep it squeaky clean.
    http://www.candoo.com/surnames/index.php

    Best wishes,

    Jim Lynch

    --

    On 12/12/2017 01:36 PM, Rod O'Donoghue wrote:
    Do you have an Irish name? Do you know how your family got it? Do
    you know on which islands your family lived in the past? Do you know
    any folktales about Irish-named people?



    I would like to start a thread on this subject. I have done a lot of research on my own surname (and its variants) and the Irish in general
    in the Caribbean.



    If you are not sure if your name is of Irish origin please ask me. I
    will
    endeavour to answer any questions people may have on the Irish
    influence on Caribbean history and life, and I hope to learn a lot of
    new stuff myself.



    Looking forward to hearing from anyone interested in this subject



    Cheers



    Rod O'Donoghue

    Author of 'Heroic Landscapes: Irish Myth and Legend' and 'O'Donoghue
    People and Places'

    Founder of The O'Donoghue Society and The Irish Folklore Centre

    <https://www.odonoghue.co.uk> https://www.odonoghue.co.uk

    Email: <mailto:rod@odonoghue.co.uk> rod@odonoghue.co.uk

    Family history: https://ballyduffodonoghue.blogspot.co.uk/



    ***************************
    The Caribbean List now has a Resources Page at Historic Antigua and
    Barbuda http://www.rootsweb.com/~atgwgw/
    -------------------------------
    To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARIBBEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
    quotes in the subject and the body of the message

    ______________________________________________________________________
    This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
    For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com ______________________________________________________________________

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Rod O'Donoghue@21:1/5 to All on Sat Dec 16 20:33:24 2017
    Phillip



    You have every reason to have a sense of Irish heritage, more than the academic, as you joined the family up at both ends.



    Abůid (Abbott) had been in Ireland from the 14th century but was originally
    an English name.



    Do you know if the brothers had a particular trade? Any idea how long it
    took Richard to own a plantation?



    Rod





    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Rod O'Donoghue@21:1/5 to All on Sat Dec 16 20:25:01 2017
    Jack



    ” FaolŠin, ” FaoileŠin, ” hAolŠin normally leading to (O)Phelan, Whelan,
    Whalen are good solid Gaelic names as you say. Do you know that your 1671 Charles Fallin did come from the islands?



    I must say my first assumption for Fallin would have been Fallon, Falloon
    based on ” Fallamhain as you say, but anglicised Irish names are a
    minefield.



    The fact that you have troubled to establish the originating Gaelic name and potential tribe suggests to me that you have a greater interest than many in your Irish roots. It sounds as if it means something to you.



    I hoping that we can find more folk like you who can trace their Irish/Caribbean origins and display an interest in their Irish heritage.



    Rod







    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Phillip Abbott@21:1/5 to All on Sat Dec 16 18:13:20 2017
    To: caribbean@rootsweb.com

    CiAgICAKQWxsIGZhcm1lcnMgLiBSaWNoYXJkIHdhcyBidXlpbmcgbGFuZCB3aXRoaW4gdGVuIHll YXJzIG9mIGJlZW4gaW4gQW50aWd1YSAuQmVzdCByZWdhcmRzUGhpbGxpcAoKClNlbnQgdmlhIHRo ZSBTYW1zdW5nIEdhbGF4eSBOb3Rlwq4gMywgYW4gQVQmVCA0RyBMVEUgc21hcnRwaG9uZQoKLS0t LS0tLS0gT3JpZ2luYWwgbWVzc2FnZSAtLS0tLS0tLQpGcm9tOiBSb2QgTydEb25vZ2h1ZSA8cm9k QG9kb25vZ2h1ZS5jby51az4gCkRhdGU6IDE2LzEyLzIwMTcgIDE2OjMzICAoR01ULTA0OjAwKSAK VG86IGNhcmliYmVhbkByb290c3dlYi5jb20gClN1YmplY3Q6IFtDYXJpYl0gSXJpc2ggb3JpZ2lu cyBpbiB0aGUgQ2FyaWJiZWFuIAoKUGhpbGxpcAoKIAoKWW91IGhhdmUgZXZlcnkgcmVhc29uIHRv IGhhdmUgYSBzZW5zZSBvZiBJcmlzaCBoZXJpdGFnZSwgbW9yZSB0aGFuIHRoZQphY2FkZW1pYywg YXMgeW91IGpvaW5lZCB0aGUgZmFtaWx5IHVwIGF0wqAgYm90aCBlbmRzLgoKIAoKQWLDs2lkIChB YmJvdHQpIGhhZCBiZWVuIGluIElyZWxhbmQgZnJvbSB0aGUgMTR0aCBjZW50dXJ5IGJ1dCB3YXMg b3JpZ2luYWxseQphbiBFbmdsaXNoIG5hbWUuCgogCgpEbyB5b3Uga25vdyBpZiB0aGUgYnJvdGhl cnMgaGFkIGEgcGFydGljdWxhciB0cmFkZT/CoCBBbnkgaWRlYSBob3cgbG9uZyBpdAp0b29rIFJp Y2hhcmQgdG8gb3duIGEgcGxhbnRhdGlvbj8KCiAKClJvZAoKIAoKIAoKwqDCoMKgwqAgKioqKioq KioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqClRoZSBDYXJpYmJlYW4gTGlzdCBub3cgaGFzIGEgUmVzb3Vy Y2VzIFBhZ2UgYXQgSGlzdG9yaWMgQW50aWd1YSBhbmQgQmFyYnVkYSBodHRwOi8vd3d3LnJvb3Rz d2ViLmNvbS9+YXRnd2d3LwotLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tClRvIHVuc3Vi c2NyaWJlIGZyb20gdGhlIGxpc3QsIHBsZWFzZSBzZW5kIGFuIGVtYWlsIHRvIENBUklCQkVBTi1y ZXF1ZXN0QHJvb3Rzd2ViLmNvbSB3aXRoIHRoZSB3b3JkICd1bnN1YnNjcmliZScgd2l0aG91dCB0 aGUgcXVvdGVzIGluIHRoZSBzdWJqZWN0IGFuZCB0aGUgYm9keSBvZiB0aGUgbWVzc2FnZQoK

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  • From Comcast@21:1/5 to All on Sat Dec 16 23:31:49 2017
    To: caribbean@rootsweb.com

    Researching occupations can yield clues. Not sure if there's any Irish parallel, but I learnt in Haddington that trades were inherited in the early 1700s (possibly earlier and later). I found traces of ancestors in the masons' guild receipt books back to
    around 1727, I think it was, for my line.

    Laura

    On Dec 16, 2017, at 3:33 PM, Rod O'Donoghue <rod@odonoghue.co.uk> wrote:

    Phillip



    You have every reason to have a sense of Irish heritage, more than the academic, as you joined the family up at both ends.



    Abóid (Abbott) had been in Ireland from the 14th century but was originally an English name.



    Do you know if the brothers had a particular trade? Any idea how long it took Richard to own a plantation?



    Rod





    ***************************


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  • From Rod O'Donoghue@21:1/5 to All on Sun Dec 17 22:23:14 2017
    Chris, your point about early migration to Jamaica being of the landless is well made. There were few Irish names among the principal planters and settlers in 1663 - Pierce, Kelly, Lynch, Sutton, Moore, Roe. By 1670 the
    Irish names of Griffin, Galloway, Garvin, Mayo, Macarta, Shehan, Teague,
    Long, Carey, Magill plus others are to be found.

    Rod

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  • From S Diaz@21:1/5 to Rod O'Donoghue on Sun Dec 17 20:59:06 2017
    On Tuesday, December 12, 2017 at 1:36:37 PM UTC-5, Rod O'Donoghue wrote:
    Do you have an Irish name? Do you know how your family got it? Do you know on which islands your family lived in the past? Do you know any folktales about Irish-named people?



    I would like to start a thread on this subject. I have done a lot of research on my own surname (and its variants) and the Irish in general in
    the Caribbean.



    If you are not sure if your name is of Irish origin please ask me. I will endeavour to answer any questions people may have on the Irish influence on Caribbean history and life, and I hope to learn a lot of new stuff myself.



    Looking forward to hearing from anyone interested in this subject



    Cheers



    Rod O'Donoghue

    Author of 'Heroic Landscapes: Irish Myth and Legend' and 'O'Donoghue People and Places'

    Founder of The O'Donoghue Society and The Irish Folklore Centre

    <https://www.odonoghue.co.uk> https://www.odonoghue.co.uk

    Email: <mailto:rod@odonoghue.co.uk> rod@odonoghue.co.uk

    Family history: https://ballyduffodonoghue.blogspot.co.uk/
    Hello Mr Donoghue, Thank you for starting this thread. My grandmother surname is Wyllie, her birthplace was St Vincent West Indies. Thank you

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  • From Chris Codrington@21:1/5 to All on Mon Dec 18 08:47:05 2017
    To: caribbean@rootsweb.com

    Rod
    Thrilled this thread has sprouted! Most of my
    mysteries have to do with Irish and Irish Scots
    residents of Antigua between 1690 and 1730.
    Several seem to have been trades people such as
    Sullivan, McMorraine, Macrest McChriest McCrest
    etc....They don't leave a ton of clear info in
    Oliver or archives and often Ive been confused
    just how to interpret what exists. Thanks for
    kicking in its very helpful!
    Cod

    -----Original Message-----
    From: CARIBBEAN
    [mailto:caribbean-bounces+cmcod=optimum.net@rootsw
    eb.com] On Behalf Of Rod O'Donoghue
    Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 5:23 PM
    To: caribbean@rootsweb.com
    Subject: [Carib] Irish origins in the Caribbean

    Chris, your point about early migration to Jamaica
    being of the landless is well made. There were
    few Irish names among the principal planters and
    settlers in 1663 - Pierce, Kelly, Lynch, Sutton,
    Moore, Roe. By 1670 the Irish names of Griffin,
    Galloway, Garvin, Mayo, Macarta, Shehan, Teague,
    Long, Carey, Magill plus others are to be found.

    Rod









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  • From Rod O'Donoghue@21:1/5 to Chris Codrington on Mon Dec 18 14:34:21 2017
    To: caribbean@rootsweb.com

    Chris
    I don't know where you are resident, but have you looked at the Montserrat archives? It was some years since I was there and they were in a rather crumbly state then . I did recommend that they were looked after properly,
    but the island had other priorities after the volcano and I don't know what
    was done. I traced a few families on Antigua back to Montserrat, but a bit later than your 1690-1730 window.
    What specific occupations (cooper, carpenter etc) did those trades people follow please? I don't suppose you know if any of them were direct arrivals from Ireland?
    Rod

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Chris Codrington [mailto:cmcod@optimum.net]
    Sent: 18 December 2017 13:47
    To: rod@odonoghue.co.uk; caribbean@rootsweb.com
    Subject: RE: [Carib] Irish origins in the Caribbean

    Rod
    Thrilled this thread has sprouted! Most of my mysteries have to do with
    Irish and Irish Scots residents of Antigua between 1690 and 1730.
    Several seem to have been trades people such as Sullivan, McMorraine,
    Macrest McChriest McCrest etc....They don't leave a ton of clear info in
    Oliver or archives and often Ive been confused just how to interpret what exists. Thanks for kicking in its very helpful!
    Cod

    -----Original Message-----
    From: CARIBBEAN
    [mailto:caribbean-bounces+cmcod=optimum.net@rootsw
    eb.com] On Behalf Of Rod O'Donoghue
    Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 5:23 PM
    To: caribbean@rootsweb.com
    Subject: [Carib] Irish origins in the Caribbean

    Chris, your point about early migration to Jamaica being of the landless is well made. There were few Irish names among the principal planters and settlers in 1663 - Pierce, Kelly, Lynch, Sutton, Moore, Roe. By 1670 the
    Irish names of Griffin, Galloway, Garvin, Mayo, Macarta, Shehan, Teague,
    Long, Carey, Magill plus others are to be found.

    Rod









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    -------------------------------
    To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARIBBEAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
    quotes in the subject and the body of the message


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  • From Rod O'Donoghue@21:1/5 to Comcast on Mon Dec 18 16:26:12 2017
    To: caribbean@rootsweb.com

    I agree, Laura. One of my family lines starts with a carpenter and they are still in wood 80+ years later.
    So many artisans went to the Caribbean in the later 18th and 19th centuries and most trades can be found. Can give you a clue as to origin place if it is a very specialised trade.
    Rod

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Comcast [mailto:lwa101@comcast.net]
    Sent: 17 December 2017 04:32
    To: rod@odonoghue.co.uk; caribbean@rootsweb.com
    Subject: Re: [Carib] Irish origins in the Caribbean

    Researching occupations can yield clues. Not sure if there's any Irish parallel, but I learnt in Haddington that trades were inherited in the early 1700s (possibly earlier and later). I found traces of ancestors in the masons' guild receipt books back to
    around 1727, I think it was, for my line.

    Laura

    On Dec 16, 2017, at 3:33 PM, Rod O'Donoghue <rod@odonoghue.co.uk> wrote:

    Phillip



    You have every reason to have a sense of Irish heritage, more than the academic, as you joined the family up at both ends.



    Abóid (Abbott) had been in Ireland from the 14th century but was
    originally an English name.



    Do you know if the brothers had a particular trade? Any idea how long
    it took Richard to own a plantation?



    Rod





    ***************************


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  • From Rod O'Donoghue@21:1/5 to All on Mon Dec 18 16:44:32 2017
    Chris, that Nini Rodgers article is really good with some very interesting sources. Thanks for that
    Rod

    -----Original Message-----
    From: CARIBBEAN [mailto:caribbean-bounces+rod=odonoghue.co.uk@rootsweb.com]
    On Behalf Of caribbean-request@rootsweb.com
    Sent: 17 December 2017 14:03
    To: caribbean@rootsweb.com
    Subject: CARIBBEAN Digest, Vol 12, Issue 86

    Send CARIBBEAN mailing list submissions to
    caribbean@rootsweb.com

    To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
    http://lists2.rootsweb.ancestry.com/mailman/listinfo/caribbean
    or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
    caribbean-request@rootsweb.com

    You can reach the person managing the list at
    caribbean-owner@rootsweb.com

    When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
    "Re: Contents of CARIBBEAN digest..."


    Today's Topics:

    1. Re: Scots to West Indies (Chris Codrington)
    2. Re: Scots to West Indies (Chris Codrington)
    3. Irish in the Caribbean 1640-18?? (Chris Codrington)


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Message: 1
    Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2017 08:29:01 -0500
    From: "Chris Codrington" <cmcod@optimum.net>
    To: <caribbean@rootsweb.com>
    Subject: Re: [Carib] Scots to West Indies
    Message-ID: <000201d3773b$0061c6a0$012553e0$@optimum.net>
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"



    So David, why did you think me to be 85? Probably not a pretty answer but
    hey Carib Gen is a tough game...


    -----Original Message-----
    From: CARIBBEAN [mailto:caribbean-bounces+cmcod=optimum.net@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of David Daniell
    Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 11:49 PM
    To: Caribbean Rootsweb <caribbean@rootsweb.com>
    Subject: Re: [Carib] Scots to West Indies

    My last message was intended to be private. As it has turned out it is not.
    So here?s me saying sorry to anyone who takes offence. David



    On 17/12/2017, at 5:39 PM, David Daniell <ddaniell@xtra.co.nz> wrote:

    Hi Laura,

    You once asked about Anquetil Grey and you were not pleased by my answer.
    Its Grey and not the US-style Gray. Here?s a bit about them in Wikipedia:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_(surname)

    The only surname with more major English and Scotch and Irish titles
    to its credit is Hamilton

    regards,

    David
    One recent revelation, I had always understood Chris was 20 years
    older than now he says he is! D

    sage




    ------------------------------

    Message: 2
    Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2017 08:45:19 -0500
    From: "Chris Codrington" <cmcod@optimum.net>
    To: <caribbean@rootsweb.com>
    Subject: Re: [Carib] Scots to West Indies
    Message-ID: <000301d3773d$477840d0$d668c270$@optimum.net>
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

    Indeed surviving correspondence is gold! Re the Grays (Greys etc) It is possible someone has translated some of it the details of which are known
    only in private circles.
    Network it and you may be surprised.
    I found letters between various members of the King family of Portland and
    St Thomas Jamaica 1808-1830 and in them I found mentions of family members
    and a variety of people I'd been studying. This included a harrowing description of a night during a hurricane in St George and many sad stories
    of various children and adults healthy one day and stricken down the next. Marriages, dalliances property sales or financial troubles all parade
    through such sources Cod


    -----Original Message-----
    From: CARIBBEAN [mailto:caribbean-bounces+cmcod=optimum.net@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Comcast
    Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 11:12 PM
    To: caribbean@rootsweb.com
    Subject: Re: [Carib] Scots to West Indies

    Chris, interesting that you mention business correspondence. Should anyone
    on this list know of someone who can read Danish handwriting, then I have
    scans of a huge load of documents from the probate of Thomas Gray's estate. These are held in a box in Copenhagen, which a fellow traveler was generous enough to photograph. Apparently, they contain all sorts of business transactions. Would adore help in reading them.

    I was in Edinburgh this June. Where do those letter books reside?

    Anyone?

    Cheers,
    Laura

    On Dec 16, 2017, at 9:40 AM, Chris Codrington <cmcod@optimum.net> wrote:

    Hi Laura
    Thanks for your note.
    Indeed...I must be a bit hyper vigilant due to a very intrusive case of
    lumbar stenosis....
    So excuse me...I love your contributions to this list!

    Ive been reading letters and notes in a digitized version of VL
    Oliver's History of Antigua My pattern of study has been to run searches
    of certain Scots or Irish names and then browse the references, I've had an opportunity to scan many bits of correspondence associated with these folk.
    It is amazing just how closely linked many were.
    Very few are going out to the islands "cold" and a lot of people moved
    around too. The Kin and business "webs" were the primary means of securing opportunities and there were it seems always a few who were more adept at networking than others. For instance Dr Walter Tullideph was very active in keeping track of the comings and goings of Scots in the leewards during his time. His surviving letters are full of chat noting the movements of this person or that and their developing or deteriorating fortunes. His
    letterbooks are in Edinburgh but I keep hoping to find a digital copy one of these days as he mentions people I need to study.

    It's very likely Thomas Grey would have had references and or a letter of
    recommendation to someone on St Croix. Naturally most of this is invisible
    to us but traces often survive and sometimes doing a broad reconnoitering of the surviving info on the community can yield a clue or two. I wish there
    were more compendiums of mercantile correspondence from the time as that
    would yield such goodies.
    Im still a raw amateur.
    Cod

    -----Original Message-----
    From: CARIBBEAN
    [mailto:caribbean-bounces+cmcod=optimum.net@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of lwa101@comcast.net
    Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 8:55 AM
    To: Caribbean List <caribbean@rootsweb.com>
    Subject: [Carib] Newspapering & emigration

    Dear Chris,
    I am just reading emails now and your sage response. Heavens, fella, you
    mustn?t think I would ever set out to purposefully rap knuckles, so the only viable choice is that my missive (missile?) was meant to provoke a bit of thoughtful reflection by all those of us who benefit from journalism yet decline to actually support it.

    Which reminds me, thank goodness our forefathers got the news in print
    and not the et


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    quotes in the subject and the body of the message




    ------------------------------

    Message: 3
    Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2017 09:02:35 -0500
    From: "Chris Codrington" <cmcod@optimum.net>
    To: <caribbean@rootsweb.com>
    Subject: [Carib] Irish in the Caribbean 1640-18??
    Message-ID: <000401d3773f$b1133f70$1339be50$@optimum.net>
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

    Short but useful read on the subject reflecting recent scholarship and non political agenda



    The Irish in the Caribbean 1641-1837

    An Overview

    By Nini Rodgers





    http://www.irlandeses.org/0711_145to155.pdf



    Cod







    End of CARIBBEAN Digest, Vol 12, Issue 86 *****************************************

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