I can't wait to see the lawsuits on "academic freedom" filed by professors who got tenure promoting anti-Zionism or covert anti-Semitism

http://wtop.com/education/2016/03/revised-uc-intolerance-proposal-addresses-anti-zionism/

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, March 16, 2016 at 6:04:40 AM UTC-7, Patricia Heil wrote:

I can't wait to see the lawsuits on "academic freedom" filed by professors who got tenure promoting anti-Zionism or covert anti-Semitism

http://wtop.com/education/2016/03/revised-uc-intolerance-proposal-addresses-anti-zionism/

That is wonderful news. I don't agree that disagreeing with Israel is by itself
anti Semitic, but anti Semites hides behind attacking Israel.

As someone living in a University of California Town this is big!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, March 16, 2016 at 6:04:40 AM UTC-7, Patricia Heil wrote:

I can't wait to see the lawsuits on "academic freedom" filed by professors who got tenure promoting anti-Zionism or covert anti-Semitism

http://wtop.com/education/2016/03/revised-uc-intolerance-proposal-addresses-anti-zionism/

Just FYI to everyone: Here's the "L.A. Times" opinion on the topic: http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-makdisi-criticism-of-israel-at-uc-not-anti-semitism-20150526-story.html

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thu, 17 Mar 2016 00:51:57 +0000 (UTC), Ken
<threeriversguy_2000@yahoo.com> said:

On Wednesday, March 16, 2016 at 6:04:40 AM UTC-7, Patricia Heil wrote:

I can't wait to see the lawsuits on "academic freedom" filed by professors who got tenure promoting anti-Zionism or covert anti-Semitism

http://wtop.com/education/2016/03/revised-uc-intolerance-proposal-addresses-anti-zionism/

Just FYI to everyone: Here's the "L.A. Times" opinion on the topic: http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-makdisi-criticism-of-israel-at-uc-not-anti-semitism-20150526-story.html

Just to clarify: this is an op-ed by Saree Makdisi, a UCLA professor,
not a LAT editorial.

It's nice of the author to acknowledge that "a Palestinian student
claiming the right to return to her homeland could be considered to be
"denying Israel's right to exist," given the demographic implications
of the Palestinian right of return for the Jewish state."

Even so, I have to agree with the general thrust of the opinion -
anti-Zionism is not anti-semitism per se, as far as Zionism can be
defined as a policy. Said another professor:

"I’m ethnically Jewish (I say “ethnically” because I’m not religious),
and I support Israel. It’s the one democracy among its neighbors, and
for all its flaws it’s doing a pretty good job faced with very
difficult circumstances. Whatever one might say about whether Israel
should have been created in 1948, it’s there, and undoing that
decision would be a disaster in many ways. And I do think that a good
deal of anti-Zionism is indeed anti-Semitic.

"But I think the regents are flat wrong to say that “anti-Zionism” has
“no place at the University of California.” Even though they’re not
outright banning anti-Zionist speech, but rather trying to sharply
condemn it, I think such statements by the regents chill debate,
especially by university employees and students who (unlike me) lack
tenure. (For more on that, see here.) And this debate must remain
free, regardless of what the regents or I think is the right position
in the debate."

Full article at https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/03/16/university-of-california-board-of-regents-is-wrong-about-anti-zionism-on-campus/
--
Yisroel "Godwrestler Warriorson" Markov - Boston, MA Member www.reason.com -- for a sober analysis of the world DNRC --------------------------------------------------------------------
"Judge, and be prepared to be judged" -- Ayn Rand

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thursday, March 17, 2016 at 8:44:57 AM UTC-7, Yisroel Markov wrote:

On Thu, 17 Mar 2016 00:51:57 +0000 (UTC), Ken
<threeriversguy_2000@yahoo.com> said:

On Wednesday, March 16, 2016 at 6:04:40 AM UTC-7, Patricia Heil wrote:

I can't wait to see the lawsuits on "academic freedom" filed by professors who got tenure promoting anti-Zionism or covert anti-Semitism

http://wtop.com/education/2016/03/revised-uc-intolerance-proposal-addresses-anti-zionism/

Just FYI to everyone: Here's the "L.A. Times" opinion on the topic: http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-makdisi-criticism-of-israel-at-uc-not-anti-semitism-20150526-story.html

Just to clarify: this is an op-ed by Saree Makdisi, a UCLA professor,
not a LAT editorial.

It's nice of the author to acknowledge that "a Palestinian student
claiming the right to return to her homeland could be considered to be "denying Israel's right to exist," given the demographic implications
of the Palestinian right of return for the Jewish state."

Even so, I have to agree with the general thrust of the opinion - anti-Zionism is not anti-semitism per se, as far as Zionism can be
defined as a policy. Said another professor:

"I'm ethnically Jewish (I say "ethnically" because I'm not religious),
and I support Israel. It's the one democracy among its neighbors, and
for all its flaws it's doing a pretty good job faced with very
difficult circumstances. Whatever one might say about whether Israel
should have been created in 1948, it's there, and undoing that
decision would be a disaster in many ways. And I do think that a good
deal of anti-Zionism is indeed anti-Semitic.

"But I think the regents are flat wrong to say that "anti-Zionism" has
"no place at the University of California." Even though they're not
outright banning anti-Zionist speech, but rather trying to sharply
condemn it, I think such statements by the regents chill debate,
especially by university employees and students who (unlike me) lack
tenure. (For more on that, see here.) And this debate must remain
free, regardless of what the regents or I think is the right position
in the debate."

Full article at https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/03/16/university-of-california-board-of-regents-is-wrong-about-anti-zionism-on-campus/
--
Yisroel "Godwrestler Warriorson" Markov - Boston, MA Member www.reason.com -- for a sober analysis of the world DNRC --------------------------------------------------------------------
"Judge, and be prepared to be judged" -- Ayn Rand

It really is a difficult situation.


The reason is criticisms of Israel may well not be antisemitic or even anti zionist.

Any liberal democracy should be able to stand up to public criticism.

The problem is that antisemitism hide behind anti Zionism when they are really being anti Semitic. The reality is that this is usually the case in 2016.

There must be a way to distinguish between legitimate speech and discriminatory hate.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thu, 17 Mar 2016 18:00:47 +0000 (UTC), Beach Runner
<lowhertz@gmail.com> said:

[snip]

The problem is that antisemitism hide behind anti Zionism when they are really >being anti Semitic. The reality is that this is usually the case in 2016.

There must be a way to distinguish between legitimate speech and discriminatory
hate.

There are, but they're mostly personal. In the meantime, hate speech
is still protected by the First Amendment. We are no more empowered to
suppress it than a prison system is empowered to decide what
constitutes Jewish practice.
--
Yisroel "Godwrestler Warriorson" Markov - Boston, MA Member www.reason.com -- for a sober analysis of the world DNRC --------------------------------------------------------------------
"Judge, and be prepared to be judged" -- Ayn Rand

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thursday, March 17, 2016 at 3:44:57 PM UTC, Yisroel Markov wrote:

It's nice of the author to acknowledge that "a Palestinian student
claiming the right to return to her homeland could be considered to be "denying Israel's right to exist," given the demographic implications
of the Palestinian right of return for the Jewish state."

In an ideal world it wouldn't be a problem, just as an African American
who wishes to return to West Africa now faces few obstacles - the USA
will no longer forbid him to leave, and most African countries would
grant an immigration visa relatively easily.
But not when the conflict is so fresh. It needs a long period of normality before it can even be considered.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

"Yisroel Markov" <ey.markov@MUNGiname.com> wrote in message news:582meb9i4b2d58juk39j12j1vns27nq226@4ax.com...

On Thu, 17 Mar 2016 18:00:47 +0000 (UTC), Beach Runner
<lowhertz@gmail.com> said:

[snip]

The problem is that antisemitism hide behind anti Zionism when they are >>really
being anti Semitic. The reality is that this is usually the case in 2016.

There must be a way to distinguish between legitimate speech and >>discriminatory
hate.

There are, but they're mostly personal. In the meantime, hate speech
is still protected by the First Amendment. We are no more empowered to suppress it than a prison system is empowered to decide what
constitutes Jewish practice.

I am asking this as a real curiosity.... What is hate speech and who gets to determine what hate speech is?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2016-03-17, Beach Runner <lowhertz@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thursday, March 17, 2016 at 8:44:57 AM UTC-7, Yisroel Markov wrote:

On Thu, 17 Mar 2016 00:51:57 +0000 (UTC), Ken
<threeriversguy_2000@yahoo.com> said:

On Wednesday, March 16, 2016 at 6:04:40 AM UTC-7, Patricia Heil wrote:

........................

It really is a difficult situation.

The reason is criticisms of Israel may well not be antisemitic or even anti zionist.

Any liberal democracy should be able to stand up to public criticism.

The problem is that antisemitism hide behind anti Zionism when they are really
being anti Semitic. The reality is that this is usually the case in 2016.

There must be a way to distinguish between legitimate speech and discriminatory
hate.

Hate can be legitimate speech. I believe that most of us would consider
it legitimate to express hate of ISIS .

--
This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views
are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University hrubin@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)