• QUORA: Is Putin a product of the Russian mentality and culture?

    From David P.@21:1/5 to All on Fri Nov 18 11:44:53 2022
    QUORA: Is Putin a product of the Russian mentality and culture?
    answered by Susanna Viljanen, Works at Aalto University, June 28

    Definitely. The former President of Finland, Juho Kusti Paasikivi (as President 1946–1956) described the modus operandi of the Russian society as such:

    "The immutable Russian policy is to get whatever they can with the least possible effort, and then ask for more. They never sacrifice their immediate benefits for future goals. They never take into account what has been said, but what has been done. They
    try to exact a high price for anything that they understand they have to do in any case. They are immune to ethical, humanitarian and abstract juridical arguments, being affected only by practical and realistic points of view."

    We have a saying in Finland: “Scratch a Russian, reveal a Mongol”. The Russianness - the Russian core value set (or rather lack of it) and the idea of Russian society is product of the Mongol Yoke - the 250 years of slavery under the Golden Horde
    1237 to 1480.

    No matter what the Russians themselves say about it, the Mongol Yoke was a disastrous period to the Russian society, Russian culture, Russian state apparatus and Russian mentality. This era saw Russia departing its Scandinavian and Norse roots and
    becoming a Central Asian society.

    Do not get it wrong. The Mongols were brutal, ruthless and cruel rulers without absolutely any interest of the welfare of their subjects. They never saw their domain as a state - a thing to be protected, developed and grown rich - but rather a grounds
    for extraction of riches to the ruling class. A poem of the era describes the brutal Mongol taxation:

    Hundred rubles he took from a prince,
    fifty from a boyar, one from a peasant
    Who couldn’t pay, he took his son
    who hadn’t a son, he took his wife
    who had no wife, he took himself

    One ruble equalled 1/8th of a Russian pound of silver. Inability to pay the taxes meant being taken as a slave by the Mongols. The Mongols retaliated any dissent with wanton brutality. As result, there never were any rebellions against the Mongol rule
    until 1378.

    The only way to survive such rule was to ditch any moral compass and ethical backbone and assume moral relativity - the concept that there is no right and no wrong, but everything depends on one’s vantage point - and a similar cruelty towards one’s
    subordinates and similar servility towards one’s superiors as the Mongol rulers and servants demonstrated.

    The Khanate never had any vestiges of rule of law, but the word of the Khan was the law. This led to arbitrariness by the ruler and the idea that violence makes right. Laws in Russia exist only to prop the status of the powerholder and as a tool to
    punish any subordinates who think they have any rights.

    There is only a rooster’s step from moral relativism to logical relativism: that there is no objective truth, but everything depends on who presents it. There are two words for “truth” in Russian, and three words for “lie”: “istina” means a
    scientific truth while “pravda” means truth as the one who insists it sees it; “lozh” means a blatant lie, “vranyo” means bullsh1tting (as a deception) and “nyepravda” as untruth. There is a constant state of greyshades between lie and
    truth in the Russian mind.

    While the rest of the Europe assumed Feudalism and Capitalism and rule of law and restriction of the power of the ruler, Russia developed into Authoritarian Patrimonialism. This is a form of statehood which has never existed in Europe - perhaps the
    Ottoman Turkey is the closest thing. In Authoritarian Patrimonialism, the ruler is the supreme ruler of the land, not to be questioned by any means, he rules with force and no laws bind him, and all power springs from him. All economy is state-owned or
    state-controlled and there is no law-guaranteed right of ownership, but a limitless right of possession by the close circle of the rulers.

    In Authoritarian Patrimonialism, the subjects are little better than worker ants. Serfdom ended in Russia de facto only in 1974, when kolkhoz peansants got a freedom to move to towns if they wished.

    Russians fail game theory. They see everything as zero-sum games and they cannot understand the concept of mutual benefit. This is why Russia can never tolerate independent Baltic states - their security is off from the Russian security and their wealth
    is off the Russian wealth.

    Russians prefer having enemies over having friends. This is a consequence of failing the game theory. Having enemies means you are feared and thus respected; having friends means you are weak and vulnerable.

    Vladimir Putin is a perfect product of this kind of society. And same inverted: Russia is astonishingly immune to any attempts to reform the society, and it always returns back into Authoritarian Patrimonialism. While Nazism was a short spell of lunacy
    in Germany, Communism fit to the Russian idea like a nose on a human face. Communism was a perfect application of the Authoritarian Patrimonialism - the revolution changed absolutely nothing.

    Yes, and whoever will replace Putin, will replace nothing. His successor will be a similar product of the similar mentality and similar culture.

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  • From Oleg Smirnov@21:1/5 to All on Mon Nov 21 20:20:42 2022
    answered by Susanna Viljanen, Works at Aalto University, June 28

    We have a saying in Finland: "Scratch a Russian, reveal a Mongol". The Russianness - the Russian core value set (or rather lack of it) and the idea of Russian society is product of the Mongol Yoke - the 250 years of slavery under the Golden Horde 1237 to 1480.

    No matter what the Russians themselves say about it, the Mongol Yoke was a disastrous period to the Russian society, Russian culture, Russian state apparatus and Russian mentality. This era saw Russia departing its Scandinavian and Norse roots and becoming a Central Asian society.

    This load of hateful nonsense is under essentially racist keynote:
    a contradistinction of noble 'white' "Scandinavian and Norse roots"
    to dirty 'non-white' "Asian".

    It becomes more amusing when combined with "leftist" claims that
    Russia is a world beacon for the adherents of white supremacism (eg. <https://tinyurl.com/ycup2bgr>).

    Russia is in many respects peculiar, it does not fit to "standard"
    models, so different haters would seek to attribute something "bad"
    to it depending on what they consider bad themselves. Those
    "progressives" who feel unhappy that the Russians aren't very
    enthusiastic about their cultism, will attribute "far-rightness" to
    Russia. Those less left-progressive, within more traditional matrix
    of Western supremacy, will attribute "Mongols".

    I.e. the lust to attribute something is primary, while compliance
    with reality is secondary. Russia is annoying with its peculiar and
    independent stance. So they invent hateful rationalizations.

    * * *

    The notorious "Scandinavian and Norse roots" is a myth promoted
    since the 18th century. This idea didn't emerge before, when Russia
    was weak and standing aside of major European affairs. Since the
    mid-16th century and throughout the 17th century, Russia had greatly
    expanded its territory and became a big power against Europe, so for
    Europeans, who by the time were already obsessed with "scientific
    racism" due to their "age of enlightenment", it seemed important to
    stake out the idea that such a great formation like Russia had been
    founded not by the Slavs but by a truly high (Nordic) race.

    The Euros remain Nazis in their heart and they desperately cling to
    this myth, which is linked to their Vikings fetish. And the latter is
    quite an ugly cult itself, a BDSM-porn under guise of history.
    Anyway, in the places where those Vikings really came, they left
    behind noticeable cultural and linguistic traces. In the Russian
    culture and language, there are absolutely no traces that might be
    somehow comparable to the traces from the Vikings in the places where
    they *really* appeared. The myth rests solely on wishful thinking
    backed by misinterpretations of a couple historical records.

    In turn, the idea of "Mongol slavery" was first developed in the 15th
    century Poland (i.e. even before the "Scandinavian" myth had emerged). Initially, this "slavery" was figuratively applied not to the whole
    society but to community of nobles (while for the low class peasantry
    there was no principal difference, and the ideologists at the time
    were even not interested in paying attention to low classes at all).
    Polish nobles maintained sort of "democracy" among themselves, while
    rules of subordination within the Russian hierarchy were more strict.
    I once posted about it before <https://tinyurl.com/yydsssuu>. Also, a
    fact is that at the time when Russia was in vassalage to the Golden
    Horde, discipline within the Russian hierarchy ("monarchical
    absolutism") was less strict than it became one-two centuries later,
    long after the full release from the dependence. So it was linked not
    with the "Mongol" impact but with some other - internal and external
    - factors, while the haters promote a far-fetched cartoonish picture.

    Such hateful narratives got a second wind / more modern design since
    the mid-19th century, when the hate towards Russia became an integral
    part of the European "progressive" discourse, and since this kind of "progressivism" promotes an ethnic hatred, it's rotten from the core,
    and it gets a natural negative response from the Russia's majority.

    There are two words for "truth" in Russian, and three words for "lie": "istina" means a scientific truth while "pravda" means truth as the one who insists it sees it; "lozh" means a blatant lie, "vranyo" means bullsh1tting (as a deception) and "nyepravda" as untruth. There is a constant state of greyshades between lie and truth in the Russian mind.

    That's quite an inaccurate explanation, but it would be too boring
    to rake all these big heaps of nonsense. Russian is a well-developed
    language, it provides rich means for expression, which is good rather
    than bad. When good Russian literature is translated to English,
    about half of its layers of meaning and subtle hints is usually lost.

    Russians fail game theory. They see everything as zero-sum games and they cannot understand the concept of mutual benefit. This is why Russia can
    never tolerate independent Baltic states - their security is off from the Russian security and their wealth is off the Russian wealth.

    The independent Baltic states exist since the 1990s, and Russia just
    don't give too big attention to them, so they're desperate to seek
    for attention with noises (and it's somewhat the same about Poland).

    Also, it'd be appropriate to remind, that the current Ukraine-related
    mess was started when the EU chose a zero-sum game and rejected the
    concept of mutual benefit.

    | "The now exceedingly dangerous confrontation between the
    | two Ukraines was .. "ignited" .. by the EU's reckless
    | ultimatum, in November, that the democratically elected
    | president of a profoundly divided country choose between
    | Europe and Russia. Putin's proposal for a tripartite
    | arrangement, rarely if ever reported, was flatly rejected
    | by US and EU officials." <https://bit.ly/3CCYKee>

    The rhetoric "the Russians understand only zero-sum games" was in
    common Atlanticist use before 2014. However, the EU-Ukraine "economic association" case was so blatantly obvious, that such phrasings
    disappeared from the MSM after that. In Quora, a backward Finnish lady
    employs outdated narratives.

    * * *

    Finland has a long common border with Russia, and the Russia-Finnish
    contacts have a long history (read also <http://tinyurl.com/szq5575>).
    The Russia's north was not affected by the Mongol-led invasion in the
    13th century, however, the Russians are culturally about the same
    everywhere (some regional features exist, of course, but they are not
    so significant). It illustrates the fact that the cartoonish stories
    about "the Mongols", which the Finnish thinkers picked up later from
    the Polish use, is rather a rationalization of their own inferiority
    complex.

    Yes, the Finnish nationalists have an inferiority complex due to the
    fact that they want to be "European family", but the Finnic people
    are not of Indo-European origin. The German racist theorists from the
    very beginning considered Finns "Mongolian race" (and genetically the
    Finnic people are more relative to the Mongolic ones, yes). When
    Finland was once under Swedish rule, the Swedes treated the Finns as
    an inferior group. It explains why some in Finland are enthusiastic
    to compensate their insecurity with promotion of hatreds against the
    Russians. The same is relevant for the Poles and west-Ukrainians.

    In the Soviet period, "finlandization" was good for Finland, they
    were engaged in independent domestic development without being
    distracted by unnecessary unhealthy passions. If now they fall into
    anti-Russia ardor out of nothing then they will get certain problems
    in the future. Russia stands at the place and won't go anywhere.

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  • From A. Filip@21:1/5 to David P. on Mon Nov 21 18:47:50 2022
    "David P." <imbibe@mindspring.com> wrote:
    QUORA: Is Putin a product of the Russian mentality and culture?
    answered by Susanna Viljanen, Works at Aalto University, June 28

    Definitely. The former President of Finland, Juho Kusti Paasikivi (as President 1946–1956) described the modus operandi of the Russian
    society as such:

    "The immutable Russian policy is to get whatever they can with the
    least possible effort, and then ask for more. They never sacrifice
    their immediate benefits for future goals. They never take into
    account what has been said, but what has been done. They try to exact
    a high price for anything that they understand they have to do in any
    case. They are immune to ethical, humanitarian and abstract juridical arguments, being affected only by practical and realistic points of
    view."
    […]

    It would be much more convincing without (economic) failure of "Yeltsin democratization", wouldn't it? <irony> Parliamentary democracy is also
    based on: You do not have to be good - It is enough to be the best
    (available choice). </irony> So, Putin may be also seen as a product of
    the Russian mentality and culture *BUT* there was a *wasted* chance to
    make Russians keep "more western" approach. Ruling by "not too big" parliamentary majority discourages bold/risky moves *usually*.

    BTE <irony> Isn't Saudi Kingdom a product of American realpolitik in
    worldwide export of "freedom and democracy"? </irony>

    --
    A. Filip : Big (Tech) Brother is watching you.
    | Honesty is for the most part less profitable than dishonesty.
    | (Plato)

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