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  • [Mid term between Zelensky and Putin] Ukraine ... hard turn from previo

    From ltlee1@21:1/5 to All on Tue Nov 8 17:45:37 2022
    A Putin landslide?
    Is Zelensky forced to change tone?
    "Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky urged the international community to “force Russia into real peace talks” — a change in tone since September when Kyiv seemed to close the door on negotiations following Russia’s claim to annex a fifth of
    Ukraine.

    Speaking Monday, Zelensky said his nation’s required certain assurances from Russia, including “restoration of [Ukraine’s] territorial integrity … compensation for all war damage, punishment for every war criminal and guarantees that it will not
    happen again.”

    “These are completely understandable conditions,” he said.
    ...
    Moscow has said it will not negotiate over the four Ukrainian provinces it claimed to annex in September — despite the fact that Ukrainian forces are continuing to liberate villages in the occupied areas. "

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ltlee1@21:1/5 to All on Tue Nov 8 18:02:39 2022
    On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 1:45:38 AM UTC, ltlee1 wrote:
    A Putin landslide?
    Is Zelensky forced to change tone?
    "Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky urged the international community to “force Russia into real peace talks” — a change in tone since September when Kyiv seemed to close the door on negotiations following Russia’s claim to annex a fifth of
    Ukraine.

    Speaking Monday, Zelensky said his nation’s required certain assurances from Russia, including “restoration of [Ukraine’s] territorial integrity … compensation for all war damage, punishment for every war criminal and guarantees that it will
    not happen again.”

    “These are completely understandable conditions,” he said.
    ...
    Moscow has said it will not negotiate over the four Ukrainian provinces it claimed to annex in September — despite the fact that Ukrainian forces are continuing to liberate villages in the occupied areas. "

    https://nypost.com/2022/11/08/ukraine-urging-globe-to-force-russia-into-peace-talks-hard-turn-from-previous-stance/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From A. Filip@21:1/5 to ltlee1@hotmail.com on Wed Nov 9 06:57:43 2022
    ltlee1 <ltlee1@hotmail.com> wrote:
    A Putin landslide?
    Is Zelensky forced to change tone?
    "Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky urged the international
    community to “force Russia into real peace talks” — a change in tone since September when Kyiv seemed to close the door on negotiations
    following Russia’s claim to annex a fifth of Ukraine.

    Speaking Monday, Zelensky said his nation’s required certain
    assurances from Russia, including “restoration of [Ukraine’s]
    territorial integrity … compensation for all war damage, punishment
    for every war criminal and guarantees that it will not happen again.”

    “These are completely understandable conditions,” he said.
    ...
    Moscow has said it will not negotiate over the four Ukrainian
    provinces it claimed to annex in September — despite the fact that Ukrainian forces are continuing to liberate villages in the occupied
    areas. "

    It is unlikely to have *fast* consequences: IMHO As for now:
    * Russia may accept a cease fire at current lines of control
    * Ukraine may accept return to the state before open Russian invasion

    Zelensky stated *opening* positions for negotiations. IMHO He is
    unlikely to change "formal positions" but it opens a way to "informal" solutions. IMHO Fast "peace" may be achieved quite soon by (stable) cease
    fire with long+ (infinitive?) formal peace negotiations after - cease
    fire turned into *informal* peace (pretty stable "Korea like situation").

    AFAIK Ukraine offensive is enough to force Russia to abandon mostly
    territories "behind river Don" (logistical "hell" for Russia).
    It is wiser to see logical strategic limit of *current* Ukrainian counter-offensive.

    --
    A. Filip : Big (Tech) Brother is watching you.
    | "Open the pod bay doors, HAL." (Dave Bowman, 2001)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ltlee1@21:1/5 to A. Filip on Wed Nov 9 11:10:57 2022
    On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 5:58:32 AM UTC, A. Filip wrote:
    ltlee1 wrote:
    A Putin landslide?
    Is Zelensky forced to change tone?
    "Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky urged the international
    community to “force Russia into real peace talks” — a change in tone since September when Kyiv seemed to close the door on negotiations following Russia’s claim to annex a fifth of Ukraine.

    Speaking Monday, Zelensky said his nation’s required certain
    assurances from Russia, including “restoration of [Ukraine’s] territorial integrity … compensation for all war damage, punishment
    for every war criminal and guarantees that it will not happen again.”

    “These are completely understandable conditions,” he said.
    ...
    Moscow has said it will not negotiate over the four Ukrainian
    provinces it claimed to annex in September — despite the fact that Ukrainian forces are continuing to liberate villages in the occupied areas. "
    It is unlikely to have *fast* consequences: IMHO As for now:
    * Russia may accept a cease fire at current lines of control
    * Ukraine may accept return to the state before open Russian invasion

    Zelensky stated *opening* positions for negotiations. IMHO He is
    unlikely to change "formal positions" but it opens a way to "informal" solutions. IMHO Fast "peace" may be achieved quite soon by (stable) cease fire with long+ (infinitive?) formal peace negotiations after - cease
    fire turned into *informal* peace (pretty stable "Korea like situation").

    AFAIK Ukraine offensive is enough to force Russia to abandon mostly territories "behind river Don" (logistical "hell" for Russia).
    It is wiser to see logical strategic limit of *current* Ukrainian counter-offensive.

    Don't really know what have been happening on the battlefield.
    However, one thing clear. Putin is his own man commanding many aspect
    of Russia and Russian operation. In contrast, I don't think Zelensky is really in charge of things.

    --
    A. Filip : Big (Tech) Brother is watching you.
    | "Open the pod bay doors, HAL." (Dave Bowman, 2001)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ltlee1@21:1/5 to All on Thu Nov 10 05:51:29 2022
    On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 1:45:38 AM UTC, ltlee1 wrote:
    A Putin landslide?
    Is Zelensky forced to change tone?
    "Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky urged the international community to “force Russia into real peace talks” — a change in tone since September when Kyiv seemed to close the door on negotiations following Russia’s claim to annex a fifth of
    Ukraine.

    Speaking Monday, Zelensky said his nation’s required certain assurances from Russia, including “restoration of [Ukraine’s] territorial integrity … compensation for all war damage, punishment for every war criminal and guarantees that it will
    not happen again.”

    “These are completely understandable conditions,” he said.
    ...
    Moscow has said it will not negotiate over the four Ukrainian provinces it claimed to annex in September — despite the fact that Ukrainian forces are continuing to liberate villages in the occupied areas. "

    https://www.wsj.com/video/series/wonder-land-henninger/wsj-opinion-will-us-turn-its-back-on-putin-cold-war-in-ukraine/EA264804-D64D-4A44-A204-31F6D29E7A04?

    "WSJ Opinion: Will U.S. Turn its Back on Putin's Cold War in Ukraine? Henninger: "It is a sad irony that those on both the left and right have decided this is the moment to pull back American support for Ukraine...""

    IF the US turns its back, will it be Biden's fault/incompetence or Zelensky's fault/incompetence?

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