• =?UTF-8?Q?Europe=E2=80=99s_Energy_Crisis_May_Get_a_Lot_Worse?=

    From David P.@21:1/5 to All on Mon Aug 15 08:41:38 2022
    Europe’s Energy Crisis May Get a Lot Worse
    By David Wallace-Wells, Aug. 10, 2022, NY Times

    Q. When we last talked, Europe was working to address a possible energy crisis with supply-side measures — importing liquid natural gas, for instance, and refiring some coal plants, even if that meant more carbon emissions in the short term. Since then,
    there’s been a lot more attention on demand reductions, as you and Meghan called for in June, and a lot more planning for the possibility of much deeper government interventions in the energy economy. What’s changed?
    ---------------------------------
    I think there’s been a gradual and growing recognition that we are headed into the worst global energy crisis at least since the 1970s and perhaps longer than that.

    It’s increasingly clear that Vladimir Putin is using gas as a weapon and trying to supply just enough gas to Europe to keep Europe in a perpetual state of panic about its ability to weather the coming winter. Europe has been finding all the supplies
    that it can, but governments are realizing that’s not going to be sufficient. There are going to have to be efforts taken to curb demand as well and to prepare for the possibility of really severe energy rationing this winter.

    I think now you’re seeing — in terms of the efforts toward efficiency and rationing — some countries are more willing than others. If things become really severe this winter, I fear that you could see European countries start to look out for
    themselves rather than one another.

    Q. What would that mean, functionally?
    ---------------------------------
    It could lead countries to turn against each other in terms of whether energy is allowed to flow across borders. If you’re a country like Germany — which not only consumes a lot of gas but is also a transit country through which gas flows to other
    European countries — why would you allow gas to flow through your country when you’re shutting down your energy-intensive industries, while your economy is suffering? I think we could start to see governments saying, “Well, we’re going to
    restrict exports. We’re going to keep our energy at home.” Everyone starts to just look out for themselves, which I think would be exactly what Putin would hope for.

    Q. How much farther will he go, do you think? ---------------------------------------
    I think it would be wise to assume that Russia will use every opportunity it can to turn the screws on Europe. Every time there is a proposed action to penalize or deter Putin, the question is: What will he do in response, and how might he retaliate?

    Q. Walk me through that worst case. How would we get to that kind of crisis? -----------------------------------------------------
    I think you would see Russia continue to restrict gas exports and maybe cut them off completely to Europe — and a very cold winter. I think a combination of those two things would mean sky-high energy prices. But there’s a lot of other sources of
    uncertainty and risk. It’s not just high prices. There comes a certain point where there’s just not enough molecules to do all the work that gas needs to do. And governments will have to ration energy supplies and decide what’s important.

    Q. Can that be avoided, even if Russia does cut off all gas? The E.U. plan for a 15 percent reduction — if that’s fulfilled, would it be enough?
    --------------------------------------------
    A 15% reduction in total gas use — that’s a pretty big number. It would take a lot of collective action to get there. But I think even if they were to do this collectively, there’s still the possibility for a pretty bad winter ahead.

    Q. “Rationing” is not all that comfortable or familiar a word these days. ---------------------------------------------------
    Since Russia invaded Ukraine and maybe until very recently, I’ve had the sense that the European public and the public beyond Europe, as well as policymakers, have been a little bit sleepwalking into a looming crisis.

    There was a sense early on that we could do without Russian gas. Lots of people published plans for what you would have to do.

    Q. Even before the EU proposed 15% cuts in demand, the European Commission released a plan to reduce dependency on Russian gas by 2/3 by the end of the year. The International Energy Agency outlined a 10-point plan to reduce dependency by 1/3.
    -------------------------------------
    The problem is, it was technically possible to do those things but incredibly difficult and not likely. One of the points in the 10-point plan was to overcome the permitting barriers to scaling renewable deployment more quickly. It’s really hard to
    permit new solar and wind and transmission lines, as we know in the United States.

    Q. And then you’d have to build them.
    ---------------------------------
    Yeah. So I think there was some unrealistic optimism about how quickly Europe could do without Russian gas. And we took too long to confront seriously just how bad the numbers would look if the worst came to pass.

    Q. People almost didn’t want to think about it. ---------------------------------------
    I think there was continued skepticism that Putin would really cut the gas supply. “It might be declining. It might be a little bit lower,” people thought. “But he’s not really going to shut off the supply.” And I think now everyone’s
    recognizing that’s a real possibility.

    And again, we’re still just talking about gas, not oil. Putin has the ability to do a lot of damage to the global economy — and himself, to be sure — if he cuts oil exports as well.

    Q. Those markets are even tighter.
    ---------------------------
    There’s no extra oil supply in the world at all, as OPEC Plus reminded everyone by saying: No, we’re not going to be increasing production much, and we can’t even if we wanted to.

    Q. This was right after President Biden’s in-person appeals. ----------------------------------------------------
    For all the talk about high gasoline prices and the rhetoric of Putin’s energy price hike, Russia’s oil exports have not fallen very much. If that were to happen — either because the U.S. and Europe forced oil to come off the market to put economic
    pressure on Putin or because he takes the oil off the market to hurt all of us — oil prices go up enormously.

    Q. To, like, $200 a barrel, right?
    -----------------------------
    I mean, it depends how much he takes off the market. We don’t know exactly. If Russia were to cut its oil exports completely, the prices would just skyrocket — to hundreds of dollars a barrel, I think.

    That’s because there’s just no extra supply out there today at all. There’s a very little extra supply that the Saudis and the Emiratis can put on the market. And that’s about it. We’ve used the strategic petroleum reserve, and that’s coming
    to an end in the next several months. There’s just no extra cushion in the oil market right now.

    Q. That all starts to look even darker.
    ---------------------------------
    We’re heading into a winter where markets might simply not be able to work anymore as the instrument by which you determine supply and demand. Typically you have a market, and prices go to a certain level, and that’s how the markets allocate supply.
    But if prices just soar to uncontrollable levels, markets are not going to work anymore. You’re going to need governments to step in and decide who gets the scarce energy supplies — how much goes to heating homes, how much goes to industry. There’s
    going to be a pecking order of different industries, where some industries are deemed more important to the economy than others. And a lot of governments in Europe are putting in place those kinds of emergency plans right now.

    Q. Let’s talk about those plans. If Russia really does cut all of Europe off, what does that look like for the people of Europe? What does that shortfall mean on the ground?
    ------------------------------------
    It is hard to predict because it depends entirely on government policy. Governments cannot allow people to freeze in their homes or be bankrupted by their energy bills. So if the worst comes to pass, governments will, by necessity, step in to say: Homes
    get the natural gas, and parts of industry get dumped. Probably they would set price caps on energy or massively subsidize it. So it’s going to be very painful.

    For some uses, it’s possible to look to substitute forms of energy. But fuel switching isn’t an option for the many European households that rely on gas to heat their homes. If Russia were to cut off natural gas supplies this winter, cutbacks will be
    necessary in other areas to keep people warm. Worryingly for the European economy, this may mean that factories that can’t switch fuels will go dormant.

    Q. What kinds of prices are we talking about? ---------------------------------------
    We’re seeing already today in Europe incredibly high energy prices that have risen hundreds of percent from last year or more. Today, before winter comes, gas prices in Europe are around $60 per million British thermal units. That compares to around $7
    to $8 here in the United States. That’s having a real impact on people’s pocketbooks. But if the worst comes to pass, the market, as a mechanism, simply won’t work. The market will break. The prices will go too high. There’s just not enough
    energy for the market to balance at a certain price.

    That is possible — that the trading markets for natural gas in Europe might be suspended this winter. I don’t think that’s likely, but it is possible. And don’t forget, the amount of liquid natural gas that Europe is importing today — Asia is
    competing for those shipments. What happens if the Asia winter is very bad? What happens if China and others are willing to pay very high prices for it? Everyone’s going to be competing for scarce energy supplies. I think that’s what it could look
    like.

    Q. That seems quite important — that while these dynamics are focused in Europe, the impacts are global.
    --------------------------------------
    I think we’re in a multiyear potential energy crisis. But I think one thing that hasn’t gotten enough attention and that I worry most about is the impact this is having on emerging markets and the developing economies, because it is an interconnected
    market. When Europe is competing to buy L.N.G. at very high prices, not to mention Asia, that means if you’re in Pakistan or Bangladesh or lower-income countries, you’re really struggling to afford it. You’re just priced out of the market for
    natural gas — and coal. Coal is incredibly expensive now, too. In part because gas is so expensive, people are bidding up coal prices. The energy minister of Bangladesh just a few days ago said that that country is facing several years of rolling power
    cuts because they can’t afford energy anymore.

    Q. Wow.
    ----------------
    If you multiply that across other emerging market countries and some of the poorest countries in Africa, I think that that is a real potential humanitarian crisis, as a ripple effect of what’s happening in Europe right now.

    Q. When it comes to gas, one interesting dynamic is that, to a certain degree, both sides are moving in the same direction — applying more pressure rather than less.
    ---------------------------------
    Europe had said: We are going to escalate the pressure on Russia. But originally they left energy off the table. That was not a sustainable position. You couldn’t continue to buy that much energy from Russia — just because it was too painful for all
    of us to pay higher energy prices — when you saw such horrific images of abuse and loss of life in Ukraine. And indeed, in the sixth sanctions package, Europe said: We’re now going after energy. We are going to ban the import of Russian oil and ban
    the import of Russian gasoline and diesel and put a ban on shipping insurance.

    But right now, the price of gas in Europe is about four times what it was last year. Russia has cut flows to Europe by two-thirds but is earning the same revenue as it did last year. So Putin is not being hurt by the loss of gas exports to Europe. Europe
    s being hurt by that.

    Q. That’s not exactly an encouraging sign of what’s to come. -----------------------------------
    The outlook for this winter is not certain to be a true energy crisis. But there’s a frighteningly high probability that we could see that. And not only this coming winter. I mean, this situation could last for several years.

    Q. How likely is it that these dynamics change? Could the energy crisis bring about a change of heart, in which European countries withdraw some of their support or even begin to pressure Ukraine to negotiate a settlement? Is it possible that could even
    happen in advance of this winter?
    --------------------------
    It’s so hard to predict at this point. I do think that the U.S. administration and the Europeans and some other countries have been incredibly strong and consistent in their defense of Ukraine. I expect that will continue. At the same time, you would
    imagine that, over time, when you don’t see Ukraine on the front page each and every day, eventually people’s attention wanes a bit and at a certain point the economic pain of high energy prices or other economic harms from the conflict reach a point
    where support may start to fracture a bit.

    Whether that reaches a point where you start to see the West put pressure on Ukraine to capitulate, I think we’re pretty far away from that now, because everyone recognizes how outrageous and unacceptable Putin’s conduct is. But I think Putin
    believes that he can withstand the pain of this aggression longer than some other Western countries can. We’ll see whether there may be some truth to that in the months and years ahead.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/10/opinion/europe-energy-crisis-ukraine.html

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From stoney@21:1/5 to David P. on Fri Aug 26 08:52:17 2022
    On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 11:41:39 PM UTC+8, David P. wrote:
    Europe’s Energy Crisis May Get a Lot Worse
    By David Wallace-Wells, Aug. 10, 2022, NY Times

    Q. When we last talked, Europe was working to address a possible energy crisis with supply-side measures — importing liquid natural gas, for instance, and refiring some coal plants, even if that meant more carbon emissions in the short term. Since
    then, there’s been a lot more attention on demand reductions, as you and Meghan called for in June, and a lot more planning for the possibility of much deeper government interventions in the energy economy. What’s changed?
    ---------------------------------
    I think there’s been a gradual and growing recognition that we are headed into the worst global energy crisis at least since the 1970s and perhaps longer than that.

    It’s increasingly clear that Vladimir Putin is using gas as a weapon and trying to supply just enough gas to Europe to keep Europe in a perpetual state of panic about its ability to weather the coming winter. Europe has been finding all the supplies
    that it can, but governments are realizing that’s not going to be sufficient. There are going to have to be efforts taken to curb demand as well and to prepare for the possibility of really severe energy rationing this winter.

    I think now you’re seeing — in terms of the efforts toward efficiency and rationing — some countries are more willing than others. If things become really severe this winter, I fear that you could see European countries start to look out for
    themselves rather than one another.

    Q. What would that mean, functionally?
    ---------------------------------
    It could lead countries to turn against each other in terms of whether energy is allowed to flow across borders. If you’re a country like Germany — which not only consumes a lot of gas but is also a transit country through which gas flows to other
    European countries — why would you allow gas to flow through your country when you’re shutting down your energy-intensive industries, while your economy is suffering? I think we could start to see governments saying, “Well, we’re going to
    restrict exports. We’re going to keep our energy at home.” Everyone starts to just look out for themselves, which I think would be exactly what Putin would hope for.

    It is likely countries in EU are going to work against each other when their gas requirement is not forthcoming to them in an uninterrupted way in the coming winter months. It's great to see how they re going to survive when they cannot buy enough
    Russian rubles from Russian banks in Russia to pay for their gas to be supplied to them. Needless to say, Russia should up their gas prices for the coming winter months. Usually gas costs more to produced and delivery is costly as manpower deployed to
    operate them needs to endure the cold and icy conditions all the times. It's time or never for EU countries to see how Ukraine war can cause to them because US wants them to NATO at Russia..


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ltlee1@21:1/5 to stoney on Fri Aug 26 09:42:53 2022
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 11:52:18 AM UTC-4, stoney wrote:
    On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 11:41:39 PM UTC+8, David P. wrote:
    Europe’s Energy Crisis May Get a Lot Worse
    By David Wallace-Wells, Aug. 10, 2022, NY Times

    Q. When we last talked, Europe was working to address a possible energy crisis with supply-side measures — importing liquid natural gas, for instance, and refiring some coal plants, even if that meant more carbon emissions in the short term. Since
    then, there’s been a lot more attention on demand reductions, as you and Meghan called for in June, and a lot more planning for the possibility of much deeper government interventions in the energy economy. What’s changed?
    ---------------------------------
    I think there’s been a gradual and growing recognition that we are headed into the worst global energy crisis at least since the 1970s and perhaps longer than that.

    It’s increasingly clear that Vladimir Putin is using gas as a weapon and trying to supply just enough gas to Europe to keep Europe in a perpetual state of panic about its ability to weather the coming winter. Europe has been finding all the
    supplies that it can, but governments are realizing that’s not going to be sufficient. There are going to have to be efforts taken to curb demand as well and to prepare for the possibility of really severe energy rationing this winter.

    I think now you’re seeing — in terms of the efforts toward efficiency and rationing — some countries are more willing than others. If things become really severe this winter, I fear that you could see European countries start to look out for
    themselves rather than one another.

    Q. What would that mean, functionally?
    ---------------------------------
    It could lead countries to turn against each other in terms of whether energy is allowed to flow across borders. If you’re a country like Germany — which not only consumes a lot of gas but is also a transit country through which gas flows to
    other European countries — why would you allow gas to flow through your country when you’re shutting down your energy-intensive industries, while your economy is suffering? I think we could start to see governments saying, “Well, we’re going to
    restrict exports. We’re going to keep our energy at home.” Everyone starts to just look out for themselves, which I think would be exactly what Putin would hope for.

    It is likely countries in EU are going to work against each other when their gas requirement is not forthcoming to them in an uninterrupted way in the coming winter months. It's great to see how they re going to survive when they cannot buy enough
    Russian rubles from Russian banks in Russia to pay for their gas to be supplied to them. Needless to say, Russia should up their gas prices for the coming winter months. Usually gas costs more to produced and delivery is costly as manpower deployed to
    operate them needs to endure the cold and icy conditions all the times. It's time or never for EU countries to see how Ukraine war can cause to them because US wants them to NATO at Russia..

    US sanction certainly enriched Western oil and gas companies.
    And non-energy rich EU nations are indeed for trouble. This includes Ukraine.

    Russia currently controls the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plants, the largest in
    Europe. It has a total output rated at 5,700 MWatt-e. Ukraine may have to choose
    between supplying energy to the military or supply energy to the people if Russia
    disconnects the plants from the Ukraine national grid.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Oleg Smirnov@21:1/5 to All on Fri Aug 26 21:15:08 2022
    ltlee1, <news:02d836b6-bb00-4ddb-bb65-1b9a40d72ca6n@googlegroups.com>
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 11:52:18 AM UTC-4, stoney wrote:

    It is likely countries in EU are going to work against each other when
    their gas requirement is not forthcoming to them in an uninterrupted way in >> the coming winter months. It's great to see how they re going to survive
    when they cannot buy enough Russian rubles from Russian banks in Russia to >> pay for their gas to be supplied to them. Needless to say, Russia should up >> their gas prices for the coming winter months. Usually gas costs more to
    produced and delivery is costly as manpower deployed to operate them needs >> to endure the cold and icy conditions all the times. It's time or never for >> EU countries to see how Ukraine war can cause to them because US wants them >> to NATO at Russia..

    US sanction certainly enriched Western oil and gas companies.
    And non-energy rich EU nations are indeed for trouble. This includes Ukraine.

    Russia currently controls the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plants, the largest in Europe. It has a total output rated at 5,700 MWatt-e. Ukraine may have to choose between supplying energy to the military or supply energy to the people if Russia disconnects the plants from the Ukraine national grid.

    Currently there's no electricity shortage in the Kiev-held territory, because of reducing need for it. Inter alia, that's why some weeks ago there were
    talks in Kiev that they might export electricity to Europe (to help Europe
    cope with the energy crisis). In the structure of the Ukraine's (pre-2022.02) electricity consumption, people's households took about 1/3 of the total, but now most industrial plants there are stopped or dysfunctional, which leaves a big amount of electricity unclaimed.

    Russian military took control over the Zaporozhia plant since early March, and so far most of its electricity went to the Kiev-held territory. Now the Kiev regime has found it preferable to neglect this electricity in favor of a PR manipulation. In the recent weeks, Kiev troops were increasingly shelling the plant (whereas Kiev propaganda claimed these are Russians shelling themselves) which is accompanied with talks about "coming nuclear catastrophe" which makes a pretext for "international involvement" (and the latter is what Kiev wants).

    Experts say that the construction of the plant is so that Chernobyl-like case is virtually impossible there, even under heavy shelling, but the shelling may still cause some leaks because there's also a storage of radioactive waste, which is less protected (and I'm not an expert and have no idea about the way the described situation would be resolved).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ltlee1@21:1/5 to Oleg Smirnov on Fri Aug 26 14:36:12 2022
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 2:17:01 PM UTC-4, Oleg Smirnov wrote:
    ltlee1, <news:02d836b6-bb00-4ddb...@googlegroups.com>
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 11:52:18 AM UTC-4, stoney wrote:

    It is likely countries in EU are going to work against each other when
    their gas requirement is not forthcoming to them in an uninterrupted way in
    the coming winter months. It's great to see how they re going to survive >> when they cannot buy enough Russian rubles from Russian banks in Russia to >> pay for their gas to be supplied to them. Needless to say, Russia should up
    their gas prices for the coming winter months. Usually gas costs more to >> produced and delivery is costly as manpower deployed to operate them needs >> to endure the cold and icy conditions all the times. It's time or never for
    EU countries to see how Ukraine war can cause to them because US wants them
    to NATO at Russia..

    US sanction certainly enriched Western oil and gas companies.
    And non-energy rich EU nations are indeed for trouble. This includes Ukraine.

    Russia currently controls the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plants, the largest
    in Europe. It has a total output rated at 5,700 MWatt-e. Ukraine may have to
    choose between supplying energy to the military or supply energy to the people if Russia disconnects the plants from the Ukraine national grid.
    Currently there's no electricity shortage in the Kiev-held territory, because of reducing need for it. Inter alia, that's why some weeks ago there were talks in Kiev that they might export electricity to Europe (to help Europe cope with the energy crisis). In the structure of the Ukraine's (pre-2022.02) electricity consumption, people's households took about 1/3 of the total, but now most industrial plants there are stopped or dysfunctional, which leaves a big amount of electricity unclaimed.

    Russian military took control over the Zaporozhia plant since early March, and
    so far most of its electricity went to the Kiev-held territory. Now the Kiev regime has found it preferable to neglect this electricity in favor of a PR manipulation. In the recent weeks, Kiev troops were increasingly shelling the plant (whereas Kiev propaganda claimed these are Russians shelling themselves)
    which is accompanied with talks about "coming nuclear catastrophe" which makes
    a pretext for "international involvement" (and the latter is what Kiev wants).

    And international involvement as a way to prevent Russia from cutting off supply to
    Ukraine held territory.


    Experts say that the construction of the plant is so that Chernobyl-like case is virtually impossible there, even under heavy shelling, but the shelling may
    still cause some leaks because there's also a storage of radioactive waste, which is less protected (and I'm not an expert and have no idea about the way the described situation would be resolved).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Oleg Smirnov@21:1/5 to All on Sat Aug 27 02:04:11 2022
    ltlee1, <news:e9ee673f-4eb4-4569-958a-fc51929419bdn@googlegroups.com>
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 2:17:01 PM UTC-4, Oleg Smirnov wrote:
    ltlee1, <news:02d836b6-bb00-4ddb...@googlegroups.com>

    US sanction certainly enriched Western oil and gas companies.
    And non-energy rich EU nations are indeed for trouble. This includes
    Ukraine.

    Russia currently controls the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plants, the
    largest in Europe. It has a total output rated at 5,700 MWatt-e.
    Ukraine may have to choose between supplying energy to the military
    or supply energy to the people if Russia disconnects the plants from
    the Ukraine national grid.

    Currently there's no electricity shortage in the Kiev-held territory,
    because of reducing need for it. Inter alia, that's why some weeks ago
    there were talks in Kiev that they might export electricity to Europe
    (to help Europe cope with the energy crisis). In the structure of the
    Ukraine's (pre-2022.02) electricity consumption, people's households
    took about 1/3 of the total, but now most industrial plants there are
    stopped or dysfunctional, which leaves a big amount of electricity
    unclaimed.

    Russian military took control over the Zaporozhia plant since early
    March, and so far most of its electricity went to the Kiev-held
    territory. Now the Kiev regime has found it preferable to neglect this
    electricity in favor of a PR manipulation. In the recent weeks, Kiev
    troops were increasingly shelling the plant (whereas Kiev propaganda
    claimed these are Russians shelling themselves) which is accompanied
    with talks about "coming nuclear catastrophe" which makes a pretext
    for "international involvement" (and the latter is what Kiev wants).

    And international involvement as a way to prevent Russia from cutting
    off supply to Ukraine held territory.

    For the regime, "international" (Western) involvement is the only
    factor that can prolong its existence, so they would desperately
    make up any pretexts and resort to any kind of alarmism that might
    provoke and speciously justify such involvement (while the supply
    as such is of secondary importance against that).

    Experts say that the construction of the plant is so that Chernobyl-like
    case is virtually impossible there, even under heavy shelling, but the
    shelling may still cause some leaks because there's also a storage of
    radioactive waste, which is less protected (and I'm not an expert and
    have no idea about the way the described situation would be resolved).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ltlee1@21:1/5 to All on Sun Aug 28 12:36:18 2022
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    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Oleg Smirnov@21:1/5 to All on Mon Aug 29 11:28:22 2022
    ltlee1, <news:f6ea75fd-0c23-42f7-8123-f0f826154c7bn@googlegroups.com>
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 7:04:55 PM UTC-4, Oleg Smirnov wrote:

    According to the following Sina.com article, Zelenskky is in trouble. https://news.sina.com.cn/w/2022-08-24/doc-imizirav9409633.shtml

    In short, two problems:
    1, Zelenskyy had changed his focus on internal political struggle.
    2. The West as a whole does not buy his role as a war time hero.

    The Atlanticism likely has some end-game scenario, which
    maybe includes replacement of Zelensky with a new leader.
    But so far things don't look like end-game is coming soon.
    Although, I've no idea what may be going on there behind
    the scenes.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ltlee1@21:1/5 to Oleg Smirnov on Mon Aug 29 04:59:32 2022
    On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 4:28:54 AM UTC-4, Oleg Smirnov wrote:
    ltlee1, <news:f6ea75fd-0c23-42f7...@googlegroups.com>
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 7:04:55 PM UTC-4, Oleg Smirnov wrote:

    According to the following Sina.com article, Zelenskky is in trouble. https://news.sina.com.cn/w/2022-08-24/doc-imizirav9409633.shtml

    In short, two problems:
    1, Zelenskyy had changed his focus on internal political struggle.
    2. The West as a whole does not buy his role as a war time hero.
    The Atlanticism likely has some end-game scenario, which
    maybe includes replacement of Zelensky with a new leader.
    But so far things don't look like end-game is coming soon.
    Although, I've no idea what may be going on there behind
    the scenes.

    It is one thing to help Ukraine short term. Will Europe support a protracted fight in the absence of world wide support? If not, Ukraine has to be sacrificed
    for peace. Zelenskyy, without doubt, think differently.

    By shelling close to the nuclear plant, Zelenskyy is blackmailing European nations to sacrifice more and to give more support to him/Ukraine.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From stoney@21:1/5 to All on Mon Aug 29 18:48:31 2022
    On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 7:59:33 PM UTC+8, ltlee1 wrote:
    On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 4:28:54 AM UTC-4, Oleg Smirnov wrote:
    ltlee1, <news:f6ea75fd-0c23-42f7...@googlegroups.com>
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 7:04:55 PM UTC-4, Oleg Smirnov wrote:

    According to the following Sina.com article, Zelenskky is in trouble. https://news.sina.com.cn/w/2022-08-24/doc-imizirav9409633.shtml

    In short, two problems:
    1, Zelenskyy had changed his focus on internal political struggle.
    2. The West as a whole does not buy his role as a war time hero.
    The Atlanticism likely has some end-game scenario, which
    maybe includes replacement of Zelensky with a new leader.
    But so far things don't look like end-game is coming soon.
    Although, I've no idea what may be going on there behind
    the scenes.
    It is one thing to help Ukraine short term. Will Europe support a protracted fight in the absence of world wide support? If not, Ukraine has to be sacrificed
    for peace. Zelenskyy, without doubt, think differently.

    By shelling close to the nuclear plant, Zelenskyy is blackmailing European nations to sacrifice more and to give more support to him/Ukraine.

    Russia should disconnect the various source points of the power grid to the nuclear plant.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)