Reid Evan Thompson
Studied Biomechanics & Primary Care Physicians (Graduated 1983)2y
What if I want to live in China? Is it possible?
I’m going to offer a different perspective. I lived in China for 8 years. I married a Chinese woman. We currently live in the US.

To clarify, I am assuming the question means to live a ‘normal’ life (as a westerner would understand that concept).

You can live in China and hang out if you marry a Chinese person, but you cannot work without a Z-visa (which actually converts to a residency permit upon entry). You cannot work on a marriage visa.

Foreigners have to register with the local PD after they find housing.

After the age of 65 you will not be able to find work. Most contracts for foreign workers limit age to 55–65. Some are as a low as 45. So you need to have some kind of outside income.

I have known people who worked in Asia for many years, but never worked 40 quarters (10 years) in the USA, making contributions to Social Security and Medicare. Then when their health turned or they were deemed too old to get a work visa, upon returning
to the US they discovered that they were not vested in SS or Medicare….

Those people were deeply, permanently screwed.

The best way to live in China would be to get enough contributions to SS & Medicare first, then go to China on a work or Business visa, find someone you’d like to marry (and that person would marry you even if you told them you were planning to stay in
China, NOT go back to the USA) - and once you qualified, start taking your Social Security income as a direct deposit into a US bank account, which you could then access while in China.

Even so, you would have to apply every year to renew your marriage visa.

The food is great and pretty healthy - and in the 2nd or 3rd tier cities, the COL is not so bad. In the countryside, your SS check might make you slightly “rich” - in Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, or other 1st tier cities, it won’t pay for your
apartment rent.

There are certain ways to get around some of the restrictions you will find as a foreigner living in China, but it takes time to figure that out.

Medical & dental - quite good in 1st tier cities. In the countryside? 1950’s era dentisty - with the drills to prove it. Your Medicare will only work in a handful of 1st tier city hospitals. Otherwise, bring cash. You’ll pay in advance, even before
surgery.

Socially, it would be different for most westerners. There are maybe 2 English-speaking cable TV stations, originating in Hong Kong. Increasingly, bookstores in 1st tier cities have books written by English-speaking authors - but the selection is limited.
Other westerners you meet, fellow-travelers if you like - are not always that likable. Lots of alcoholics and social misfits working in China. In the countryside, you will always be a curiosity. Children will sometimes shrink from you, crying in fear.
The bigger cities are better, but then again, that annoying COL problem returns.

Studying Mandarin (putonghua) before you go helps. But there are 680 dialects spoken in China, and unless your putonghua is spot-on for pronunciation, no one will understand a word you say. If you end up in Guangdong Pr., they mainly speak Cantonese (
Guangdonghua) - so if you show up there, you’d better be a fast learner.

There are other things. Toilets rarely have any paper, so you learn to carry some at all times. In China it’s a little packet roughly 2″ x 3″ x 1/2″ of little Kleenex's - and the toilets may be the squat down type (the sitting type like westerns
are used to mainly in the bigger cities). I could go on….

Like all places, China is changing quickly. The internet is more tightly restricted now than it was when I was there. On the other hand, trains are faster, buses cleaner, and some of the “Wild West” flavor of China as it transitioned to ‘
authoritarian capitalism’ are gone. If your papers are bogus, today it is more likely someone will spot that. If you went a “looser” version of Asia, Thailand remains your best bet.

Can you live in China? Most westerners I have known washed out, barely hanging on to finish out a year’s contract for teaching. Others liked it more and stayed longer. Foreign business people getting paid by their company, living downtown in first tier
cities saved a lot of money and became rich. A few people I knew tried to find ways to stay forever, but it is unclear whether they made it or not. A Chinese green card exists, but it is almost impossible to get one.

Now you know more, so… is it possible?

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Leo Zach
· September 21, 2019
Some very good points. Except “The food is great and pretty healthy”. I’m sure you’re aware of the barrage of news reports in China on food safety issues.

Also, agreed on the COL problem, Tier 1 cities are overpriced, but even a $900 SS check is enough to pay for a 1-br apartment in Beijing or Shanghai, within 3rd ring rd and middle ring rd respectively (btw, thanks to the PBOC for the yuan current and
future devaluations).

Lastly, I believe one is just fine in Guangdong speaking putong hua.

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Reid Evan Thompson
· September 21, 2019
Everywhere we go one must be aware of food safety. That being said, I will stick with my original point.

The trouble with living in first tier cities is that after you are in an apartment for a year, they jack the rent. This is the result of rentals being taken over by real estate agencies. If you’re lucky enough to have a private landlord, it is much
better. Over time, the agencies are taking most of that market. The average Social Security check seems to be ~$1461, and the max is $2814. Paying $900 equivalent in rmb would be a big bite.

Putonghua “works” in parts of Guangdong - but there are places where people do not understand it - I should know, I lived and traveled there for 2 years. YMMV. btw, Guangdong ppl speak putonghua with a ‘southern accent.’ I’ll stand by what I
said before - unless your putonghua is spot-on for pronunciation, no one will understand a word you say.

I got to the point where I could pick out accents from Guangdong, Beijing, Hainan Dao & Shanxi. It is said that the purest Putonghua accent is spoken in Heilongjiang Prov (Harbin) but I never made it there. Always wanted to see the ice festival, maybe I�
�ll still get there (?).

Thank you for the comment.

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Leo Zach
· September 21, 2019
Thank you for the clarifications. In Shanghai, where I’m most familiar with, most rentals are still from private landlords. And absolutely, pronunciation has to be “spot on” to be understood. About the food safety issue, it actually ranks #3 in the
top reasons for Chinese emigration out of China.

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Beizhou Wang
· September 25, 2019
Well, I would like to correct the fact that “the purest Putonghua accent is spoken in Harbin”. From a native perspective, it is funny to learn that someone told you that it’s in Herbin. While the Heilongjiang Prov. or Northeastern China area is
famous for its humorous “Dongbei” accent, the authentic Putonghua should originate from a small town in Hebei Prov.

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Reid Evan Thompson
· September 25, 2019
Thank you for the correction.

One thing I believe is true about China - each person is quite sentimental about their home town and the food there; and quite willing to stand up for their regional differences!

My own pronunciation experience started out in frustration. I learned Putonghua (some basics) but no one seemed to understand me. Then I had a very patient tutor and we worked for several months just on pronunciation & the 4 tones.

Even though my vocabulary was limited, suddenly I was able to get people to understand what I was saying.

Interestingly, I became more adept at listening to a speaker and hear the (sometimes) small differences in pronunciation from the language spoken in Beijing, which is famous for that pirate-like “rrr” at the end of certain words. To my way of
thinking, that was humorous, but also the local pronunciation for Beijingers.

It is interesting b/c as a foreign teacher, I had to be able to figure out what my students were trying to say. Some of the pronunciations were not even close, but with time I got better and better at deciphering what they were trying to say. On the
other hand, many times to my ear, my pronunciations were very close - yet - Chinese listeners seemed unable to make the leap to analyzing context and figuring out what I wanted to say.

Anyway, I don’t take it so seriously anymore, and am retired. I hope to return to China and do some additional travel. In that case, I’ll try to brush up on my putonghua but have already learned to live with what I got - which was immersion - 6 years
in Beijing & 2 years in Guangdong.

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Adrian Lacno
· November 27
Foods are clean and healthy. The news that you saw on news are street vendors and little stores(mom&pop stores). Dont be cheap, spend a little, they arent that expensive even in high class restaurants, still 1/3–1/5 cheaper than in big cities like NYC.

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Claire Wang
· October 30, 2019
I appreciate your honest opinions, though the information you gave is misleading

“I have known people who worked in Asia for many years, …, making contributions to Social Security and Medicare. Then when their health turned or they were deemed too old to get a work visa, upon returning to the US they discovered that they were not
vested in SS or Medicare”

No, expats don’t make contributions to social security (pensions etc.).The company who gives you a Z visa does.Yes, there was a 8% (used to be 10%) deducted from your paycheck.But as an expat, you can claim them ALL back when you leave China.Another 2%
you paid for medical will be sent back to you bank account monthly.

And if you want to stay in China and get pension like a Chinese citizen.You can.

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Reid Evan Thompson
· October 30, 2019
You may be right. However, if such a thing exists, no one tells the foreigners about it. And - how exactly would they claim and receive a pension? No visa, no entry. No work, no visa. So when a person retires, they still have to go. Do you think
employers or the Chinese Guv are going to forward retirement monies out of country? I was cheated more times than I like to admit - by employers.

One of my adult students complained bitterly that he was due a tax refund for schooling expenses for his son, according to Chinese tax law. They never sent him money, nor an explanation. Nada. This was back in 2005, but still… it made an impression on
me.

The Chinese Green Card would fix a lot of these employer-related problems for foreigners, but no one I knew ever got one, even if they could qualify under the 5 rules listed by the Chinese Guv. I decided not to try, a lot of paperwork for nothing.

I would be willing to say that - yes - change would be possible. Things did get easier for me, year-by-year. But partly it was on account of my learning to work the system.

How can I claim my money? If you know, I would sincerely appreciate you telling me.

Of all the places I ever worked for, only one offered health insurance. The rest bought life insurance for foreigners. Guess who the payee was? The employer. NOT the foreign worker’s family.

Finally, since wages are generally low in China, and paper records were spotty at best (many jobs just paid me a stack of cash, no paperwork), any retirement funds one could possibly get from China would be very small compared to USA benefits. In that
sense, my comments still ring true, though if you are correct (and I have no doubt that you are - technically) - it would only be a few thousand dollars. The average US Social Security yearly payout is over $17k. The value of Medicare? IMO priceless - 80%
of medical expenses from 65 to end of life. Nothing China offers can currently match that for a foreign worker. My wife receives a pension. It started at 1000 rmb per month - now it is 2500. Roughly $400/mo USD.

Thank you for your comment.

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Claire Wang
· October 30, 2019
How about do a little research yourself or talk to people when you know that you have a crappy employer?

“ Do you think employers or the Chinese Guv are going to forward retirement monies out of country?”

Yes, I know my employer would do that. Many may be unwilling to when you do not end in good terms, but there are alway ways to protect your rights. If you want the money and don’t want to be cheated, go back and stay on tourist visa until you get your
money back.

We can all use anecdote experience “I know a guy” but that doesn’t prove anything.And China in 2005 is very different with the China in 2019.

Here are some useful information, I skimmed through and think that they are mostly accurate:

A Guide To Expat Taxes & Social Security In China

Things You Need to Know Before You Leave China - ReFoX Relocation

I agree with you wages are still low compared with high-income countries, the pension money can make you survive, but not to enjoy life. So there is really no point to stay after you retires. China is not an idea place to stay after you(as an expat)
retires. Thailand would be a much better choice within Asia(economically).

And yes Green Card would fix a lot of these employer-related problems . But I personally think China will never become an immigrant country— she already have 1.3 billion people, it is more wise to reserve the high paying jobs for its own citizen.

Reid Evan Thompson
Thank you for the follow up. Going back to China and

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