• Re: [Divided We Fall by David French] The Divisions That Are Destroying

    From ltlee1@21:1/5 to All on Fri Oct 22 10:34:37 2021
    On Tuesday, October 19, 2021 at 8:30:46 AM UTC-5, ltlee1 wrote:
    On Monday, October 18, 2021 at 9:48:05 AM UTC-5, ltlee1 wrote:
    On Saturday, October 16, 2021 at 6:58:41 PM UTC-5, ltlee1 wrote:
    "A conservative evangelical Christian who has lived and worked among secular liberals, French understands better than most that coexistence with people of radically different backgrounds and beliefs is not only possible but necessary, and that it
    requires a basic respect for pluralism that fewer and fewer Americans seem willing to show.
    ...
    But for French, a commitment to pluralism is not merely a concession borne of ideological moderation but a prerequisite for keeping our big, messy, diverse experiment of a republic from breaking apart. This means that drag queens be allowed their
    story hour at a Sacramento public library (the genesis of the Ahmari versus French controversy) and that a Christian baker in Lakewood, Colo., be permitted to abstain from making wedding cakes for gay couples.

    French’s answer to our deepening divide is federalism, the constitutional principle that prioritizes “tolerance through self-governance and community autonomy.” To illustrate the dangerous consequences of what could happen if his plea goes
    unheeded, French presents a pair of chillingly believable, near-future secessionist scenarios involving California and Texas — a “Calexit” if the Supreme Court were to strike down the state’s sweeping gun confiscation law and a “Texit”
    initiated by a similar fracas over abortion. Both seem likelier than a Trumpian repeat of the Reichstag fire predicted by so many commentators.

    Four years into this unnerving presidency, America has ably resisted the depredations of a commander in chief who imitates a dictator on Twitter. Whether it can withstand the centrifugal effects of its own divisions will be a much greater and more
    enduring challenge."

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/22/books/review/divided-we-fall-david-french.html
    In his book, David French sees both Democrats and Republicans are currently deep in their own
    mass movement. For many Americans find their political identities are of utmost importance. Many
    are actually adopting identities that conform with their political identity and shed identities that do
    not. French does not quote Mark 8:36 but "What doth it profit a man, to gain the whole world, and
    lose his own soul" looks like a good description.
    So far, "Divided We Fall" is the best book in understanding the US political polarization.
    The book illustrates how Christianity is influencing US politics. For example, without King David
    Cascade, Trump could not have won the 2020 election so unexpectedly.

    On the other hand, reviewer Joshua Keating, thinks he is too optimistic about America's future.

    "After 244 years—much older than most currently existing constitutional regimes—if we’ve
    really become completely incapable of existing as one cohesive political community, then why,
    other than a sentimental attachment to the Stars and Stripes, should red and blue Americans
    continue to share a country? At the end of the Calexit scenario, he even writes that Americans
    “mainly felt relief” after it was all over.

    Instead, he thinks the worst consequences will be international. After the split-up of the United
    States, he writes, “the peace that had been maintained through the overwhelming military and
    economic might of the United States would not hold.” This is an accelerated version of the argument
    Robert Kagan and others have made about America’s ongoing disengagement from the world.
    Without the U.S. security guarantee, French imagines a return to great power conflict, with China
    and Russia moving to invade their smaller neighbors. With all due respect to these countries, if the
    best argument for the continued existence of the United States is the security of Estonia and
    Taiwan, maybe it really is time to pack it in."

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/09/david-french-divided-we-fall-review-secession-hmm.html

    It is obvious that China is biggest winner of the US led world order and the US is decline, at least
    relatively speaking during the last few decades. Yet many of the commentators, let alone politicians
    still consider US weakness as momentary. Being democratic, bad leaders would be voted out. And
    in the mean time, China is being dealt with. Everything would be fine as before.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bmoore@21:1/5 to All on Fri Oct 22 11:27:39 2021
    On Tuesday, October 19, 2021 at 6:30:46 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
    On Monday, October 18, 2021 at 9:48:05 AM UTC-5, ltlee1 wrote:
    On Saturday, October 16, 2021 at 6:58:41 PM UTC-5, ltlee1 wrote:
    "A conservative evangelical Christian who has lived and worked among secular liberals, French understands better than most that coexistence with people of radically different backgrounds and beliefs is not only possible but necessary, and that it
    requires a basic respect for pluralism that fewer and fewer Americans seem willing to show.
    ...
    But for French, a commitment to pluralism is not merely a concession borne of ideological moderation but a prerequisite for keeping our big, messy, diverse experiment of a republic from breaking apart. This means that drag queens be allowed their
    story hour at a Sacramento public library (the genesis of the Ahmari versus French controversy) and that a Christian baker in Lakewood, Colo., be permitted to abstain from making wedding cakes for gay couples.

    French’s answer to our deepening divide is federalism, the constitutional principle that prioritizes “tolerance through self-governance and community autonomy.” To illustrate the dangerous consequences of what could happen if his plea goes
    unheeded, French presents a pair of chillingly believable, near-future secessionist scenarios involving California and Texas — a “Calexit” if the Supreme Court were to strike down the state’s sweeping gun confiscation law and a “Texit”
    initiated by a similar fracas over abortion. Both seem likelier than a Trumpian repeat of the Reichstag fire predicted by so many commentators.

    Four years into this unnerving presidency, America has ably resisted the depredations of a commander in chief who imitates a dictator on Twitter. Whether it can withstand the centrifugal effects of its own divisions will be a much greater and more
    enduring challenge."

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/22/books/review/divided-we-fall-david-french.html
    In his book, David French sees both Democrats and Republicans are currently deep in their own
    mass movement. For many Americans find their political identities are of utmost importance. Many
    are actually adopting identities that conform with their political identity and shed identities that do
    not. French does not quote Mark 8:36 but "What doth it profit a man, to gain the whole world, and
    lose his own soul" looks like a good description.
    So far, "Divided We Fall" is the best book in understanding the US political polarization.
    The book illustrates how Christianity is influencing US politics. For example, without King David
    Cascade, Trump could not have won the 2020 election so unexpectedly.

    You mean 2016. What is King David Cascade?

    On the other hand, reviewer Joshua Keating, thinks he is too optimistic about America's future.

    "After 244 years—much older than most currently existing constitutional regimes—if we’ve
    really become completely incapable of existing as one cohesive political community, then why,
    other than a sentimental attachment to the Stars and Stripes, should red and blue Americans
    continue to share a country? At the end of the Calexit scenario, he even writes that Americans
    “mainly felt relief” after it was all over.

    Instead, he thinks the worst consequences will be international. After the split-up of the United
    States, he writes, “the peace that had been maintained through the overwhelming military and
    economic might of the United States would not hold.” This is an accelerated version of the argument
    Robert Kagan and others have made about America’s ongoing disengagement from the world.
    Without the U.S. security guarantee, French imagines a return to great power conflict, with China
    and Russia moving to invade their smaller neighbors. With all due respect to these countries, if the
    best argument for the continued existence of the United States is the security of Estonia and
    Taiwan, maybe it really is time to pack it in."

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/09/david-french-divided-we-fall-review-secession-hmm.html

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ltlee1@21:1/5 to bmoore on Sat Oct 23 06:16:32 2021
    On Friday, October 22, 2021 at 1:27:41 PM UTC-5, bmoore wrote:
    On Tuesday, October 19, 2021 at 6:30:46 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
    On Monday, October 18, 2021 at 9:48:05 AM UTC-5, ltlee1 wrote:
    On Saturday, October 16, 2021 at 6:58:41 PM UTC-5, ltlee1 wrote:
    "A conservative evangelical Christian who has lived and worked among secular liberals, French understands better than most that coexistence with people of radically different backgrounds and beliefs is not only possible but necessary, and that it
    requires a basic respect for pluralism that fewer and fewer Americans seem willing to show.
    ...
    But for French, a commitment to pluralism is not merely a concession borne of ideological moderation but a prerequisite for keeping our big, messy, diverse experiment of a republic from breaking apart. This means that drag queens be allowed their
    story hour at a Sacramento public library (the genesis of the Ahmari versus French controversy) and that a Christian baker in Lakewood, Colo., be permitted to abstain from making wedding cakes for gay couples.

    French’s answer to our deepening divide is federalism, the constitutional principle that prioritizes “tolerance through self-governance and community autonomy.” To illustrate the dangerous consequences of what could happen if his plea goes
    unheeded, French presents a pair of chillingly believable, near-future secessionist scenarios involving California and Texas — a “Calexit” if the Supreme Court were to strike down the state’s sweeping gun confiscation law and a “Texit”
    initiated by a similar fracas over abortion. Both seem likelier than a Trumpian repeat of the Reichstag fire predicted by so many commentators.

    Four years into this unnerving presidency, America has ably resisted the depredations of a commander in chief who imitates a dictator on Twitter. Whether it can withstand the centrifugal effects of its own divisions will be a much greater and
    more enduring challenge."

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/22/books/review/divided-we-fall-david-french.html
    In his book, David French sees both Democrats and Republicans are currently deep in their own
    mass movement. For many Americans find their political identities are of utmost importance. Many
    are actually adopting identities that conform with their political identity and shed identities that do
    not. French does not quote Mark 8:36 but "What doth it profit a man, to gain the whole world, and
    lose his own soul" looks like a good description.
    So far, "Divided We Fall" is the best book in understanding the US political polarization.
    The book illustrates how Christianity is influencing US politics. For example, without King David
    Cascade, Trump could not have won the 2020 election so unexpectedly.
    You mean 2016. What is King David Cascade?

    Yes, you are right, Trump's unexpected won at 2016, not 2020.
    Evangelical leaders spoke out for Trump, however flawed is Trump, he did not murder its own people like
    King David. Yet God still chose King David to lead the people. Cascade indicates the rapid dissemination
    and acceptance of the idea among evangelicals.

    On the other hand, reviewer Joshua Keating, thinks he is too optimistic about America's future.

    "After 244 years—much older than most currently existing constitutional regimes—if we’ve
    really become completely incapable of existing as one cohesive political community, then why,
    other than a sentimental attachment to the Stars and Stripes, should red and blue Americans
    continue to share a country? At the end of the Calexit scenario, he even writes that Americans
    “mainly felt relief” after it was all over.

    Instead, he thinks the worst consequences will be international. After the split-up of the United
    States, he writes, “the peace that had been maintained through the overwhelming military and
    economic might of the United States would not hold.” This is an accelerated version of the argument
    Robert Kagan and others have made about America’s ongoing disengagement from the world.
    Without the U.S. security guarantee, French imagines a return to great power conflict, with China
    and Russia moving to invade their smaller neighbors. With all due respect to these countries, if the
    best argument for the continued existence of the United States is the security of Estonia and
    Taiwan, maybe it really is time to pack it in."

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/09/david-french-divided-we-fall-review-secession-hmm.html

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bmoore@21:1/5 to All on Sat Oct 23 09:28:05 2021
    On Saturday, October 23, 2021 at 6:16:33 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
    On Friday, October 22, 2021 at 1:27:41 PM UTC-5, bmoore wrote:
    On Tuesday, October 19, 2021 at 6:30:46 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
    On Monday, October 18, 2021 at 9:48:05 AM UTC-5, ltlee1 wrote:
    On Saturday, October 16, 2021 at 6:58:41 PM UTC-5, ltlee1 wrote:
    "A conservative evangelical Christian who has lived and worked among secular liberals, French understands better than most that coexistence with people of radically different backgrounds and beliefs is not only possible but necessary, and that
    it requires a basic respect for pluralism that fewer and fewer Americans seem willing to show.
    ...
    But for French, a commitment to pluralism is not merely a concession borne of ideological moderation but a prerequisite for keeping our big, messy, diverse experiment of a republic from breaking apart. This means that drag queens be allowed
    their story hour at a Sacramento public library (the genesis of the Ahmari versus French controversy) and that a Christian baker in Lakewood, Colo., be permitted to abstain from making wedding cakes for gay couples.

    French’s answer to our deepening divide is federalism, the constitutional principle that prioritizes “tolerance through self-governance and community autonomy.” To illustrate the dangerous consequences of what could happen if his plea
    goes unheeded, French presents a pair of chillingly believable, near-future secessionist scenarios involving California and Texas — a “Calexit” if the Supreme Court were to strike down the state’s sweeping gun confiscation law and a “Texit”
    initiated by a similar fracas over abortion. Both seem likelier than a Trumpian repeat of the Reichstag fire predicted by so many commentators.

    Four years into this unnerving presidency, America has ably resisted the depredations of a commander in chief who imitates a dictator on Twitter. Whether it can withstand the centrifugal effects of its own divisions will be a much greater and
    more enduring challenge."

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/22/books/review/divided-we-fall-david-french.html
    In his book, David French sees both Democrats and Republicans are currently deep in their own
    mass movement. For many Americans find their political identities are of utmost importance. Many
    are actually adopting identities that conform with their political identity and shed identities that do
    not. French does not quote Mark 8:36 but "What doth it profit a man, to gain the whole world, and
    lose his own soul" looks like a good description.
    So far, "Divided We Fall" is the best book in understanding the US political polarization.
    The book illustrates how Christianity is influencing US politics. For example, without King David
    Cascade, Trump could not have won the 2020 election so unexpectedly.
    You mean 2016. What is King David Cascade?
    Yes, you are right, Trump's unexpected won at 2016, not 2020.
    Evangelical leaders spoke out for Trump, however flawed is Trump, he did not murder its own people like
    King David. Yet God still chose King David to lead the people. Cascade indicates the rapid dissemination
    and acceptance of the idea among evangelicals.
    On the other hand, reviewer Joshua Keating, thinks he is too optimistic about America's future.

    David was a great king who had flaws. Trump was an awful leader who has no redeeming qualities.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ltlee1@21:1/5 to bmoore on Sat Oct 23 10:04:44 2021
    On Saturday, October 23, 2021 at 11:28:06 AM UTC-5, bmoore wrote:
    On Saturday, October 23, 2021 at 6:16:33 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
    On Friday, October 22, 2021 at 1:27:41 PM UTC-5, bmoore wrote:
    On Tuesday, October 19, 2021 at 6:30:46 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
    On Monday, October 18, 2021 at 9:48:05 AM UTC-5, ltlee1 wrote:
    On Saturday, October 16, 2021 at 6:58:41 PM UTC-5, ltlee1 wrote:
    "A conservative evangelical Christian who has lived and worked among secular liberals, French understands better than most that coexistence with people of radically different backgrounds and beliefs is not only possible but necessary, and
    that it requires a basic respect for pluralism that fewer and fewer Americans seem willing to show.
    ...
    But for French, a commitment to pluralism is not merely a concession borne of ideological moderation but a prerequisite for keeping our big, messy, diverse experiment of a republic from breaking apart. This means that drag queens be allowed
    their story hour at a Sacramento public library (the genesis of the Ahmari versus French controversy) and that a Christian baker in Lakewood, Colo., be permitted to abstain from making wedding cakes for gay couples.

    French’s answer to our deepening divide is federalism, the constitutional principle that prioritizes “tolerance through self-governance and community autonomy.” To illustrate the dangerous consequences of what could happen if his plea
    goes unheeded, French presents a pair of chillingly believable, near-future secessionist scenarios involving California and Texas — a “Calexit” if the Supreme Court were to strike down the state’s sweeping gun confiscation law and a “Texit”
    initiated by a similar fracas over abortion. Both seem likelier than a Trumpian repeat of the Reichstag fire predicted by so many commentators.

    Four years into this unnerving presidency, America has ably resisted the depredations of a commander in chief who imitates a dictator on Twitter. Whether it can withstand the centrifugal effects of its own divisions will be a much greater and
    more enduring challenge."

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/22/books/review/divided-we-fall-david-french.html
    In his book, David French sees both Democrats and Republicans are currently deep in their own
    mass movement. For many Americans find their political identities are of utmost importance. Many
    are actually adopting identities that conform with their political identity and shed identities that do
    not. French does not quote Mark 8:36 but "What doth it profit a man, to gain the whole world, and
    lose his own soul" looks like a good description.
    So far, "Divided We Fall" is the best book in understanding the US political polarization.
    The book illustrates how Christianity is influencing US politics. For example, without King David
    Cascade, Trump could not have won the 2020 election so unexpectedly.
    You mean 2016. What is King David Cascade?
    Yes, you are right, Trump's unexpected won at 2016, not 2020.
    Evangelical leaders spoke out for Trump, however flawed is Trump, he did not murder its own people like
    King David. Yet God still chose King David to lead the people. Cascade indicates the rapid dissemination
    and acceptance of the idea among evangelicals.
    On the other hand, reviewer Joshua Keating, thinks he is too optimistic about America's future.
    David was a great king who had flaws. Trump was an awful leader who has no redeeming qualities.

    If one does not believe in god, leadership, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.
    If one believes in god, everything is a matter of god's plan.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bmoore@21:1/5 to All on Sat Oct 23 10:28:38 2021
    On Saturday, October 23, 2021 at 10:04:46 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
    On Saturday, October 23, 2021 at 11:28:06 AM UTC-5, bmoore wrote:
    On Saturday, October 23, 2021 at 6:16:33 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
    On Friday, October 22, 2021 at 1:27:41 PM UTC-5, bmoore wrote:
    On Tuesday, October 19, 2021 at 6:30:46 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
    On Monday, October 18, 2021 at 9:48:05 AM UTC-5, ltlee1 wrote:
    On Saturday, October 16, 2021 at 6:58:41 PM UTC-5, ltlee1 wrote:
    "A conservative evangelical Christian who has lived and worked among secular liberals, French understands better than most that coexistence with people of radically different backgrounds and beliefs is not only possible but necessary, and
    that it requires a basic respect for pluralism that fewer and fewer Americans seem willing to show.
    ...
    But for French, a commitment to pluralism is not merely a concession borne of ideological moderation but a prerequisite for keeping our big, messy, diverse experiment of a republic from breaking apart. This means that drag queens be allowed
    their story hour at a Sacramento public library (the genesis of the Ahmari versus French controversy) and that a Christian baker in Lakewood, Colo., be permitted to abstain from making wedding cakes for gay couples.

    French’s answer to our deepening divide is federalism, the constitutional principle that prioritizes “tolerance through self-governance and community autonomy.” To illustrate the dangerous consequences of what could happen if his plea
    goes unheeded, French presents a pair of chillingly believable, near-future secessionist scenarios involving California and Texas — a “Calexit” if the Supreme Court were to strike down the state’s sweeping gun confiscation law and a “Texit”
    initiated by a similar fracas over abortion. Both seem likelier than a Trumpian repeat of the Reichstag fire predicted by so many commentators.

    Four years into this unnerving presidency, America has ably resisted the depredations of a commander in chief who imitates a dictator on Twitter. Whether it can withstand the centrifugal effects of its own divisions will be a much greater
    and more enduring challenge."

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/22/books/review/divided-we-fall-david-french.html
    In his book, David French sees both Democrats and Republicans are currently deep in their own
    mass movement. For many Americans find their political identities are of utmost importance. Many
    are actually adopting identities that conform with their political identity and shed identities that do
    not. French does not quote Mark 8:36 but "What doth it profit a man, to gain the whole world, and
    lose his own soul" looks like a good description.
    So far, "Divided We Fall" is the best book in understanding the US political polarization.
    The book illustrates how Christianity is influencing US politics. For example, without King David
    Cascade, Trump could not have won the 2020 election so unexpectedly.
    You mean 2016. What is King David Cascade?
    Yes, you are right, Trump's unexpected won at 2016, not 2020. Evangelical leaders spoke out for Trump, however flawed is Trump, he did not murder its own people like
    King David. Yet God still chose King David to lead the people. Cascade indicates the rapid dissemination
    and acceptance of the idea among evangelicals.
    On the other hand, reviewer Joshua Keating, thinks he is too optimistic about America's future.
    David was a great king who had flaws. Trump was an awful leader who has no redeeming qualities.
    If one does not believe in god, leadership, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.
    If one believes in god, everything is a matter of god's plan.

    Not completely true.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)