XPost: alt.talk.royalty, alt.politics.british, alt.society.monarchy

A revision for the 39th birthday of the Duke of Cambridge.

The oldest-ever Prince of Wales has the two oldest-ever sons
of a Prince of Wales,and the oldest-ever grandson of a Prince
of Wales,and oldest-ever daughter of a son of a Prince of Wales
(though the daughters of Edward VII's daughter currently retain
the records for oldest grandchild (Alexandra) and oldest granddaughters (Alexandra first and Maud second) of a Prince of Wales).

The Queen is now two months past 95,a milestone the Prince of Wales
would not reach until January 2044.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Consider,if you would,the United Kingdom and Empire
as they were on September 26th 1882.

Queen Victoria,under 5 months past 63,was on the throne;
her Golden Jubilee would be in the fifth year following,her
Diamond Jubilee ten years after that.The future Edward VII was over
6 weeks from 41 (the current Prince of Wales is under 5 months from 73),
the future George V was under 4 months past 17(the Duke of Cambridge
is now 39--George V was made Prince of Wales at 36 when
all his children were younger than Prince George is now),not yet
Duke of York,and not yet heir apparent to his father;nor was his elder
brother (who had over nine years to live) yet 19.
The future Archbishop of Canterbury who would crown King Edward was
Bishop of Exeter.The oldest British royal was George III's daughter-in-law
the Duchess of Cambridge (Augusta of Hesse-Cassel),born 1797 and with
over six years to live.

The Church of England dioceses of Birmingham,Blackburn,Bristol, Coventry,Chelmsford,Derby,Guildford,Leicester,Portsmouth,
St. Edmundsbury and Ipswich,Sheffield,and Southwark did not yet
exist...nor did those of Bradford and Wakefield,now abolished,
or that of Southwell,from which Derby would one day be severed.That of Newcastle was under five months old.

Lloyd George,Macdonald,Baldwin,and Chamberlain were teenagers,Churchill
was seven years old,and no later Prime Minister(including Attlee)
had yet been born (nor had any person in the world alive after 1999).
Keir Hardie,who years later would found the original Scottish
Labour Party,then the Independent Labour Party,and then the Labour
Party proper,was still in his twenties and had never been an MP.

William Gladstone (born 1809) was the only living person who had been
Prime Minister (years younger than his predecessors).His government
had not yet sought passage of the Representation of the People Act 1884
(which would for the first time enable most men to vote),which would
be followed by the Redistribution of Seats Act 1885 (which would establish
the norm of single-member constituencies) which would first come into
effect with the following election.
Women would not vote in a General Election for over thirty-six years. Christopher Rice Mansel Talbot(born 1803),Father of the House of Commons,
had been a member since 1830...before any of the Reform Bills.(Charles
James Mahon,born 1800,had been a member discontinuously since then).
Lord Coleridge (born 1820) was Lord Chief Justice,and had been
the last Chief Justice of the Common Pleas (a position abolished
by the Judicature Act of 1873).The 1st Lord Esher(born 1815 or 1817,
sources disagree,and not yet a peer) was Master of the Rolls.

Many of the Colonies had yet to be colonized,Hong Kong was over a
decade from adding the New Territories.

Battleships that would be scrapped as obsolete years before World War I
had yet to be laid down,nor had either HMS Victoria,which would sink in
an 1893 collision,or the ironclad HMS Camperdown(which would sink it).
Ships built with sailing rigs were still in the active fleet,
some with wooden hulls were still performing reserve and training functions, and it was years before HMS Temeraire would make port under sail alone
for the final time.

The Admirals of the Fleet included Sir George Sartorius(born
1790,a commander in 1812 and post-captain in 1814),and
Sir Provo Wallis (born 1791,a lieutenant 1808,and commander 1813);
Sartorius had been a midshipman on HMS Tonnant at Trafalgar in 1805
nearly 9 years before Francis Scott Key's visit to that ship led to
"The Star-Spangled Banner" being written,witnessed the surrender of Napoleon,commanded a fleet in the Portugese Civil War of the 1830s,
and risen through the admiral ranks starting in 1849;Wallis had
taken temporary command of HMS Shannon when it captured USS
Chesapeake in 1813.
The 1st Baron Strathnairn(born 1801) was a Field Marshal,
while Sir Richard Dacres(born 1799),the 3rd Earl of Lucan
(born 1800,a lieutenant colonel 1826),who had ordered the
Charge of the Light Brigade,and three men born in 1804
had yet to receive promotion to that rank.

The eldest Dukes included the 6th of Northumberland(b. 1810, great-great-great-grandfather of the 11th and the current 12th Duke)
the 2nd of Wellington(b. 1807,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather
of the present 9th Duke born 1945,an MP 1829 and army major 1830),
the 7th of Devonshire(b. 1808,great-great-great-grandfather of the
present 12th duke born 1944,he had first become an MP in 1829 and
a peer in 1834),the 5th of Buccleuch/7th of Queensberry(b. 1806,
succeeded in 1819,a Knight of the Garter since 1835,great-great-great- grandfather of the present 12th Duke),the 12th of Somerset(b. 1804,
second cousin of the great-great-great-grandfather of the current 19th Duke), and the 4th (and last) of Cleveland (born 1803).
The 1st Duke of Abercorn,so created in 1868,had succeeded to the
Marquessate thereof in 1818 and been a Knight of the Garter since 1844.
The 3rd Marquess of Donegall (born 1797) was alive and would be
succeeded by a younger brother born in 1799(the present peer is the great-great-great-grandson of their first cousin).
The 7th Earl of Shaftesbury(born 1801,an MP from 1826,great- great-great-grandfather of the present peer and his predecessor),the
3rd Earl Grey (born 1802,also an MP from 1826,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer and of his predecessor),and the 2nd Earl of Harrowby(born 1798,an MP from 1819,
a Lord of the Admiralty in 1827,great-great-great-grandfather of the septuagenarian present Earl) were among the Knights of the Garter.
The 1st Earl of Lovelace (born 1805) had over a decade to live,and
had been a Lord-Lieutenant since 1840.
The 3rd and 4th Earl of Mansfield and Mansfield(born 1806 and with
over 15 years to live) had been a Knight of the Thistle since 1843,
and had been an MP from 1830 to 1840,with a spell in Government 1834-5.
The 4th Earl of Arran(born 1801) had been a Knight of
St. Patrick since 1841 and been charge d'affaires in
Buenos Aires 1832-4.
Also among the Earls were the 6th Earl of Essex(born 1803),
and the 6th of Albemarle,born 1799,a veteran of the Battle of Waterloo.
The eldest of Earls were the 2nd Earl Mount Cashell,
born 1792,the 6th Earl of Buckinghamshire,
born 1793,and the 2nd of Stradbroke,born 1794,
commissioned in the Army in 1810,a Lieutenant 1814,
who missed Waterloo on account of a wound.
The Earl of Sandwich had held his title since 1818.
The 9th Viscount of Arbuthnott(born 1806) was alive,the
current peer is the 17th.
The 1st Viscount Portman (born 1799,first elected MP in 1823) was
alive,the present peer is the 10th.
The oldest Viscount,however,was the 1st and last of Eversley,born in 1794
and Speaker of the House of Commons 1839-57.
The senior Viscount was the 2nd Frankfort de Montmorency,
who had inherited his title in 1822.
Barons included the 3rd Baron Gardner,who had inherited that title
in 1815,the 2nd Baron Mostyn(born 1795,great-great-great-great-
grandfather of the present peer),the 2nd Baron Brougham and Vaux
(born 1795,great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer),
the 16th Baron Saye and Sele(born 1799,great-great-grandfather of
the 100-year-old present peer),the 1st Baron Cottesloe (born 1798,great-great-great-grandfather of the present peer),
and the 1st Lord Ebury,born 1801 and a Privy Counsellor since 1830;
the oldest peerage holder was Lady Sempill,born 1790 or possibly 1789.
The Lord Bishop of Chichester was Richard Durnford,born 1802.
Sir Moses Montefiore,born 1784,was the oldest baronet.
Sir Thomas Sabine Pasley had held his baronetcy since 1808.

Cardinal Manning (born 1808) was Catholic Archbishop of Westminster,
but Cardinal Newman(born 1801) was the oldest British cardinal.

Abroad Alexander III had most of his reign as Emperor and
Tsar-Autocrat of all the Russias ahead of him and Leo XIII
(born 1810) had most of his time as Pope ahead of him
(in each case more than four-fifths of their reign).
Slavery was still legal in Brazil and would be for years.
Wilhelm I,grandfather of the World War I Kaiser,born in 1797,
still ruled Germany.

Consider all the changes,natural and manmade,visited upon the world
in all the time since.

And now consider this...Queen Elizabeth II has been on the Throne
for MOST of that time since then.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.talk.royalty, alt.politics.british, alt.society.monarchy

In alt.talk.royalty Louis Epstein <le@top.put.com> wrote:

A revision for the 39th birthday of the Duke of Cambridge.

The oldest-ever Prince of Wales has the two oldest-ever sons
of a Prince of Wales,and the oldest-ever grandson of a Prince
of Wales,and oldest-ever daughter of a son of a Prince of Wales

(and,I forgot to clarify,oldest-ever child and second child of a
son of a Prince of Wales)

(though the daughters of Edward VII's daughter currently retain
the records for oldest grandchild (Alexandra) and oldest granddaughters (Alexandra first and Maud second) of a Prince of Wales).

The Queen is now two months past 95,a milestone the Prince of Wales
would not reach until January 2044.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Consider,if you would,the United Kingdom and Empire
as they were on September 26th 1882.

Queen Victoria,under 5 months past 63,was on the throne;
her Golden Jubilee would be in the fifth year following,her
Diamond Jubilee ten years after that.The future Edward VII was over
6 weeks from 41 (the current Prince of Wales is under 5 months from 73),
the future George V was under 4 months past 17(the Duke of Cambridge
is now 39--George V was made Prince of Wales at 36 when
all his children were younger than Prince George is now),not yet
Duke of York,and not yet heir apparent to his father;nor was his elder brother (who had over nine years to live) yet 19.
The future Archbishop of Canterbury who would crown King Edward was
Bishop of Exeter.The oldest British royal was George III's daughter-in-law the Duchess of Cambridge (Augusta of Hesse-Cassel),born 1797 and with
over six years to live.

The Church of England dioceses of Birmingham,Blackburn,Bristol, Coventry,Chelmsford,Derby,Guildford,Leicester,Portsmouth,
St. Edmundsbury and Ipswich,Sheffield,and Southwark did not yet
exist...nor did those of Bradford and Wakefield,now abolished,
or that of Southwell,from which Derby would one day be severed.That of Newcastle was under five months old.

Lloyd George,Macdonald,Baldwin,and Chamberlain were teenagers,Churchill
was seven years old,and no later Prime Minister(including Attlee)
had yet been born (nor had any person in the world alive after 1999).
Keir Hardie,who years later would found the original Scottish
Labour Party,then the Independent Labour Party,and then the Labour
Party proper,was still in his twenties and had never been an MP.

William Gladstone (born 1809) was the only living person who had been
Prime Minister (years younger than his predecessors).His government
had not yet sought passage of the Representation of the People Act 1884 (which would for the first time enable most men to vote),which would
be followed by the Redistribution of Seats Act 1885 (which would establish the norm of single-member constituencies) which would first come into
effect with the following election.
Women would not vote in a General Election for over thirty-six years. Christopher Rice Mansel Talbot(born 1803),Father of the House of Commons,
had been a member since 1830...before any of the Reform Bills.(Charles
James Mahon,born 1800,had been a member discontinuously since then).
Lord Coleridge (born 1820) was Lord Chief Justice,and had been
the last Chief Justice of the Common Pleas (a position abolished
by the Judicature Act of 1873).The 1st Lord Esher(born 1815 or 1817,
sources disagree,and not yet a peer) was Master of the Rolls.

Many of the Colonies had yet to be colonized,Hong Kong was over a
decade from adding the New Territories.

Battleships that would be scrapped as obsolete years before World War I
had yet to be laid down,nor had either HMS Victoria,which would sink in
an 1893 collision,or the ironclad HMS Camperdown(which would sink it).
Ships built with sailing rigs were still in the active fleet,
some with wooden hulls were still performing reserve and training functions, and it was years before HMS Temeraire would make port under sail alone
for the final time.

The Admirals of the Fleet included Sir George Sartorius(born
1790,a commander in 1812 and post-captain in 1814),and
Sir Provo Wallis (born 1791,a lieutenant 1808,and commander 1813);
Sartorius had been a midshipman on HMS Tonnant at Trafalgar in 1805
nearly 9 years before Francis Scott Key's visit to that ship led to
"The Star-Spangled Banner" being written,witnessed the surrender of Napoleon,commanded a fleet in the Portugese Civil War of the 1830s,
and risen through the admiral ranks starting in 1849;Wallis had
taken temporary command of HMS Shannon when it captured USS
Chesapeake in 1813.
The 1st Baron Strathnairn(born 1801) was a Field Marshal,
while Sir Richard Dacres(born 1799),the 3rd Earl of Lucan
(born 1800,a lieutenant colonel 1826),who had ordered the
Charge of the Light Brigade,and three men born in 1804
had yet to receive promotion to that rank.

The eldest Dukes included the 6th of Northumberland(b. 1810, great-great-great-grandfather of the 11th and the current 12th Duke)
the 2nd of Wellington(b. 1807,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather
of the present 9th Duke born 1945,an MP 1829 and army major 1830),
the 7th of Devonshire(b. 1808,great-great-great-grandfather of the
present 12th duke born 1944,he had first become an MP in 1829 and
a peer in 1834),the 5th of Buccleuch/7th of Queensberry(b. 1806,
succeeded in 1819,a Knight of the Garter since 1835,great-great-great- grandfather of the present 12th Duke),the 12th of Somerset(b. 1804,
second cousin of the great-great-great-grandfather of the current 19th Duke), and the 4th (and last) of Cleveland (born 1803).
The 1st Duke of Abercorn,so created in 1868,had succeeded to the
Marquessate thereof in 1818 and been a Knight of the Garter since 1844.
The 3rd Marquess of Donegall (born 1797) was alive and would be
succeeded by a younger brother born in 1799(the present peer is the great-great-great-grandson of their first cousin).
The 7th Earl of Shaftesbury(born 1801,an MP from 1826,great- great-great-grandfather of the present peer and his predecessor),the
3rd Earl Grey (born 1802,also an MP from 1826,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer and of his predecessor),and the 2nd Earl of Harrowby(born 1798,an MP from 1819,
a Lord of the Admiralty in 1827,great-great-great-grandfather of the septuagenarian present Earl) were among the Knights of the Garter.
The 1st Earl of Lovelace (born 1805) had over a decade to live,and
had been a Lord-Lieutenant since 1840.
The 3rd and 4th Earl of Mansfield and Mansfield(born 1806 and with
over 15 years to live) had been a Knight of the Thistle since 1843,
and had been an MP from 1830 to 1840,with a spell in Government 1834-5.
The 4th Earl of Arran(born 1801) had been a Knight of
St. Patrick since 1841 and been charge d'affaires in
Buenos Aires 1832-4.
Also among the Earls were the 6th Earl of Essex(born 1803),
and the 6th of Albemarle,born 1799,a veteran of the Battle of Waterloo.
The eldest of Earls were the 2nd Earl Mount Cashell,
born 1792,the 6th Earl of Buckinghamshire,
born 1793,and the 2nd of Stradbroke,born 1794,
commissioned in the Army in 1810,a Lieutenant 1814,
who missed Waterloo on account of a wound.
The Earl of Sandwich had held his title since 1818.
The 9th Viscount of Arbuthnott(born 1806) was alive,the
current peer is the 17th.
The 1st Viscount Portman (born 1799,first elected MP in 1823) was
alive,the present peer is the 10th.
The oldest Viscount,however,was the 1st and last of Eversley,born in 1794
and Speaker of the House of Commons 1839-57.
The senior Viscount was the 2nd Frankfort de Montmorency,
who had inherited his title in 1822.
Barons included the 3rd Baron Gardner,who had inherited that title
in 1815,the 2nd Baron Mostyn(born 1795,great-great-great-great-
grandfather of the present peer),the 2nd Baron Brougham and Vaux
(born 1795,great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer),
the 16th Baron Saye and Sele(born 1799,great-great-grandfather of
the 100-year-old present peer),the 1st Baron Cottesloe (born 1798,great-great-great-grandfather of the present peer),
and the 1st Lord Ebury,born 1801 and a Privy Counsellor since 1830;
the oldest peerage holder was Lady Sempill,born 1790 or possibly 1789.
The Lord Bishop of Chichester was Richard Durnford,born 1802.
Sir Moses Montefiore,born 1784,was the oldest baronet.
Sir Thomas Sabine Pasley had held his baronetcy since 1808.

Cardinal Manning (born 1808) was Catholic Archbishop of Westminster,
but Cardinal Newman(born 1801) was the oldest British cardinal.

Abroad Alexander III had most of his reign as Emperor and
Tsar-Autocrat of all the Russias ahead of him and Leo XIII
(born 1810) had most of his time as Pope ahead of him
(in each case more than four-fifths of their reign).
Slavery was still legal in Brazil and would be for years.
Wilhelm I,grandfather of the World War I Kaiser,born in 1797,
still ruled Germany.

Consider all the changes,natural and manmade,visited upon the world
in all the time since.

And now consider this...Queen Elizabeth II has been on the Throne
for MOST of that time since then.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.talk.royalty, alt.politics.british, alt.society.monarchy

A revision for the 8th birthday of Prince George of Cambridge,
who extends his record as oldest-ever third-direct-heir.
The reference date moves back into August 1882.

At age 8 the current Prince of Wales had already been Duke of Cornwall
for most of his life,while Edward VIII was halfway from birth to his
own designation as Prince of Wales (which was on his 16th birthday).

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Consider,if you would,the United Kingdom and Empire
as they were on August 29th 1882.

Queen Victoria,under 4 months past 63,was on the throne;
her Golden Jubilee would be in the fifth year following,her
Diamond Jubilee ten years after that.The future Edward VII was over
2 months from 41 (the current Prince of Wales is under 4 months from 73),
the future George V was under 3 months past 17(the Duke of Cambridge is
over a month past 39--George V was made Prince of Wales at 36 when
all his children were younger than Prince George is now),not yet
Duke of York,and not yet heir apparent to his father;nor was his elder
brother (who had over nine years to live) yet 19.
The future Archbishop of Canterbury who would crown King Edward was
Bishop of Exeter.The oldest British royal was George III's daughter-in-law
the Duchess of Cambridge (Augusta of Hesse-Cassel),born 1797 and with
over six years to live.

The Church of England dioceses of Birmingham,Blackburn,Bristol, Coventry,Chelmsford,Derby,Guildford,Leicester,Portsmouth,
St. Edmundsbury and Ipswich,Sheffield,and Southwark did not yet
exist...nor did those of Bradford and Wakefield,now abolished,
or that of Southwell,from which Derby would one day be severed.That of Newcastle was under four months old.

Lloyd George,Macdonald,Baldwin,and Chamberlain were teenagers,Churchill
was seven years old,and no later Prime Minister(including Attlee)
had yet been born (nor had any person in the world alive after 1999).
Keir Hardie,who years later would found the original Scottish
Labour Party,then the Independent Labour Party,and then the Labour
Party proper,was still in his twenties and had never been an MP.

William Gladstone (born 1809) was the only living person who had been
Prime Minister (years younger than his predecessors).His government
had not yet sought passage of the Representation of the People Act 1884
(which would for the first time enable most men to vote),which would
be followed by the Redistribution of Seats Act 1885 (which would establish
the norm of single-member constituencies) which would first come into
effect with the following election.
Women would not vote in a General Election for over thirty-six years. Christopher Rice Mansel Talbot(born 1803),Father of the House of Commons,
had been a member since 1830...before any of the Reform Bills.(Charles
James Mahon,born 1800,had been a member discontinuously since then).
Lord Coleridge (born 1820) was Lord Chief Justice,and had been
the last Chief Justice of the Common Pleas (a position abolished
by the Judicature Act of 1873).The 1st Lord Esher(born 1815 or 1817,
sources disagree,and not yet a peer) was Master of the Rolls.

Many of the Colonies had yet to be colonized,Hong Kong was over a
decade from adding the New Territories.

Battleships that would be scrapped as obsolete years before World War I
had yet to be laid down,nor had either HMS Victoria,which would sink in
an 1893 collision,or the ironclad HMS Camperdown(which would sink it).
Ships built with sailing rigs were still in the active fleet,
some with wooden hulls were still performing reserve and training functions, and it was years before HMS Temeraire would make port under sail alone
for the final time.

The Admirals of the Fleet included Sir George Sartorius(born
1790,a commander in 1812 and post-captain in 1814),and
Sir Provo Wallis (born 1791,a lieutenant 1808,and commander 1813);
Sartorius had been a midshipman on HMS Tonnant at Trafalgar in 1805
nearly 9 years before Francis Scott Key's visit to that ship led to
"The Star-Spangled Banner" being written,witnessed the surrender of Napoleon,commanded a fleet in the Portugese Civil War of the 1830s,
and risen through the admiral ranks starting in 1849;Wallis had
taken temporary command of HMS Shannon when it captured USS
Chesapeake in 1813.
The 1st Baron Strathnairn(born 1801) was a Field Marshal,
while Sir Richard Dacres(born 1799),the 3rd Earl of Lucan
(born 1800,a lieutenant colonel 1826),who had ordered the
Charge of the Light Brigade,and three men born in 1804
had yet to receive promotion to that rank.

The eldest Dukes included the 6th of Northumberland(b. 1810, great-great-great-grandfather of the 11th and the current 12th Duke)
the 2nd of Wellington(b. 1807,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather
of the present 9th Duke born 1945,an MP 1829 and army major 1830),
the 7th of Devonshire(b. 1808,great-great-great-grandfather of the
present 12th duke born 1944,he had first become an MP in 1829 and
a peer in 1834),the 5th of Buccleuch/7th of Queensberry(b. 1806,
succeeded in 1819,a Knight of the Garter since 1835,great-great-great- grandfather of the present 12th Duke),the 12th of Somerset(b. 1804,
second cousin of the great-great-great-grandfather of the current 19th Duke), and the 4th (and last) of Cleveland (born 1803).
The 1st Duke of Abercorn,so created in 1868,had succeeded to the
Marquessate thereof in 1818 and been a Knight of the Garter since 1844.
The 3rd Marquess of Donegall (born 1797) was alive and would be
succeeded by a younger brother born in 1799(the present peer is the great-great-great-grandson of their first cousin).
The 7th Earl of Shaftesbury(born 1801,an MP from 1826,great- great-great-grandfather of the present peer and his predecessor),the
3rd Earl Grey (born 1802,also an MP from 1826,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer and of his predecessor),and the 2nd Earl of Harrowby(born 1798,an MP from 1819,
a Lord of the Admiralty in 1827,great-great-great-grandfather of the septuagenarian present Earl) were among the Knights of the Garter.
The 1st Earl of Lovelace (born 1805) had over a decade to live,and
had been a Lord-Lieutenant since 1840.
The 3rd and 4th Earl of Mansfield and Mansfield(born 1806 and with
over 15 years to live) had been a Knight of the Thistle since 1843,
and had been an MP from 1830 to 1840,with a spell in Government 1834-5.
The 4th Earl of Arran(born 1801) had been a Knight of
St. Patrick since 1841 and been charge d'affaires in
Buenos Aires 1832-4.
Also among the Earls were the 6th Earl of Essex(born 1803),
and the 6th of Albemarle,born 1799,a veteran of the Battle of Waterloo.
The eldest of Earls were the 2nd Earl Mount Cashell,
born 1792,the 6th Earl of Buckinghamshire,
born 1793,and the 2nd of Stradbroke,born 1794,
commissioned in the Army in 1810,a Lieutenant 1814,
who missed Waterloo on account of a wound.
The Earl of Sandwich had held his title since 1818.
The 9th Viscount of Arbuthnott(born 1806) was alive,the
current peer is the 17th.
The 1st Viscount Portman (born 1799,first elected MP in 1823) was
alive,the present peer is the 10th.
The oldest Viscount,however,was the 1st and last of Eversley,born in 1794
and Speaker of the House of Commons 1839-57.
The senior Viscount was the 2nd Frankfort de Montmorency,
who had inherited his title in 1822.
Barons included the 3rd Baron Gardner,who had inherited that title
in 1815,the 2nd Baron Mostyn(born 1795,great-great-great-great-
grandfather of the present peer),the 2nd Baron Brougham and Vaux
(born 1795,great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer),
the 16th Baron Saye and Sele(born 1799,great-great-grandfather of
the 100-year-old present peer),the 1st Baron Cottesloe (born 1798,great-great-great-grandfather of the present peer),
and the 1st Lord Ebury,born 1801 and a Privy Counsellor since 1830;
the oldest peerage holder was Lady Sempill,born 1790 or possibly 1789.
The Lord Bishop of Chichester was Richard Durnford,born 1802.
Sir Moses Montefiore,born 1784,was the oldest baronet.
Sir Thomas Sabine Pasley had held his baronetcy since 1808.

Cardinal Manning (born 1808) was Catholic Archbishop of Westminster,
but Cardinal Newman(born 1801) was the oldest British cardinal.

Abroad Alexander III had most of his reign as Emperor and
Tsar-Autocrat of all the Russias ahead of him and Leo XIII
(born 1810) had most of his time as Pope ahead of him
(in each case more than four-fifths of their reign).
Slavery was still legal in Brazil and would be for years.
Wilhelm I,grandfather of the World War I Kaiser,born in 1797,
still ruled Germany.

Consider all the changes,natural and manmade,visited upon the world
in all the time since.

And now consider this...Queen Elizabeth II has been on the Throne
for MOST of that time since then.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.talk.royalty, alt.politics.british, alt.society.monarchy

The Queen is now four months past 95,
the Duke of Cambridge 2 months past 39.
The Princess Royal recently turned 71.

The midpoint of the present reign has passed Remembrance Day 1986
(how many then would have thought it was not yet half over?)


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Consider,if you would,the United Kingdom and Empire
as they were on July 29th 1882.

Queen Victoria,under 3 months past 63,was on the throne;
her Golden Jubilee would be in the fifth year following,her
Diamond Jubilee ten years after that.The future Edward VII was over
3 months from 41 (the current Prince of Wales is under 3 months from 73),
the future George V was only 8 weeks past 17(the Duke of Cambridge is
now 2 months past 39--George V was made Prince of Wales at 36 when
all his children were younger than Prince George is now),not yet
Duke of York,and not yet heir apparent to his father;nor was his elder
brother (who had over nine years to live) yet 19.
The future Archbishop of Canterbury who would crown King Edward was
Bishop of Exeter.The oldest British royal was George III's daughter-in-law
the Duchess of Cambridge (Augusta of Hesse-Cassel),born 1797 and with
over six years to live.

The Church of England dioceses of Birmingham,Blackburn,Bristol, Coventry,Chelmsford,Derby,Guildford,Leicester,Portsmouth,
St. Edmundsbury and Ipswich,Sheffield,and Southwark did not yet
exist...nor did those of Bradford and Wakefield,now abolished,
or that of Southwell,from which Derby would one day be severed.That of Newcastle was under three months old.

Lloyd George,Macdonald,Baldwin,and Chamberlain were teenagers,Churchill
was seven years old,and no later Prime Minister(including Attlee)
had yet been born (nor had any person in the world alive after 1999).
Keir Hardie,who years later would found the original Scottish
Labour Party,then the Independent Labour Party,and then the Labour
Party proper,was still in his twenties and had never been an MP.

William Gladstone (born 1809) was the only living person who had been
Prime Minister (years younger than his predecessors).His government
had not yet sought passage of the Representation of the People Act 1884
(which would for the first time enable most men to vote),which would
be followed by the Redistribution of Seats Act 1885 (which would establish
the norm of single-member constituencies) which would first come into
effect with the following election.
Women would not vote in a General Election for over thirty-six years. Christopher Rice Mansel Talbot(born 1803),Father of the House of Commons,
had been a member since 1830...before any of the Reform Bills.(Charles
James Mahon,born 1800,had been a member discontinuously since then).
Lord Coleridge (born 1820) was Lord Chief Justice,and had been
the last Chief Justice of the Common Pleas (a position abolished
by the Judicature Act of 1873).The 1st Lord Esher(born 1815 or 1817,
sources disagree,and not yet a peer) was Master of the Rolls.

Many of the Colonies had yet to be colonized,Hong Kong was over a
decade from adding the New Territories.

Battleships that would be scrapped as obsolete in the reign of Edward VII
had yet to be laid down,nor had either HMS Victoria,which would sink in
an 1893 collision,or the ironclad HMS Camperdown(which would sink it).
Ships built with sailing rigs were still in the active fleet,
some with wooden hulls were still performing reserve and training functions, and it was years before HMS Temeraire would make port under sail alone
for the final time.

The Admirals of the Fleet included Sir George Sartorius(born
1790,a commander in 1812 and post-captain in 1814),and
Sir Provo Wallis (born 1791,a lieutenant 1808,and commander 1813);
Sartorius had been a midshipman on HMS Tonnant at Trafalgar in 1805
nearly 9 years before Francis Scott Key's visit to that ship led to
"The Star-Spangled Banner" being written,witnessed the surrender of Napoleon,commanded a fleet in the Portugese Civil War of the 1830s,
and risen through the admiral ranks starting in 1849;Wallis had
taken temporary command of HMS Shannon when it captured USS
Chesapeake in 1813.
The 1st Baron Strathnairn(born 1801) was a Field Marshal,
while Sir Richard Dacres(born 1799),the 3rd Earl of Lucan
(born 1800,a lieutenant colonel 1826),who had ordered the
Charge of the Light Brigade,and three men born in 1804
had yet to receive promotion to that rank.

The eldest Dukes included the 6th of Northumberland(b. 1810, great-great-great-grandfather of the 11th and the current 12th Duke)
the 2nd of Wellington(b. 1807,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather
of the present 9th Duke born 1945,an MP 1829 and army major 1830),
the 7th of Devonshire(b. 1808,great-great-great-grandfather of the
present 12th duke born 1944,he had first become an MP in 1829 and
a peer in 1834),the 5th of Buccleuch/7th of Queensberry(b. 1806,
succeeded in 1819,a Knight of the Garter since 1835,great-great-great- grandfather of the present 12th Duke),the 12th of Somerset(b. 1804,
second cousin of the great-great-great-grandfather of the current 19th Duke), and the 4th (and last) of Cleveland (born 1803).
The 1st Duke of Abercorn,so created in 1868,had succeeded to the
Marquessate thereof in 1818 and been a Knight of the Garter since 1844.
The 3rd Marquess of Donegall (born 1797) was alive and would be
succeeded by a younger brother born in 1799(the present peer is the great-great-great-grandson of their first cousin).
The 7th Earl of Shaftesbury(born 1801,an MP from 1826,great- great-great-grandfather of the present peer and his predecessor),the
3rd Earl Grey (born 1802,also an MP from 1826,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer and of his predecessor),and the 2nd Earl of Harrowby(born 1798,an MP from 1819,
a Lord of the Admiralty in 1827,great-great-great-grandfather of the septuagenarian present Earl) were among the Knights of the Garter.
The 1st Earl of Lovelace (born 1805) had over a decade to live,and
had been a Lord-Lieutenant since 1840.
The 3rd and 4th Earl of Mansfield and Mansfield(born 1806 and with
over 15 years to live) had been a Knight of the Thistle since 1843,
and had been an MP from 1830 to 1840,with a spell in Government 1834-5.
The 4th Earl of Arran(born 1801) had been a Knight of
St. Patrick since 1841 and been charge d'affaires in
Buenos Aires 1832-4.
Also among the Earls were the 6th Earl of Essex(born 1803),
and the 6th of Albemarle,born 1799,a veteran of the Battle of Waterloo.
The eldest of Earls were the 2nd Earl Mount Cashell,
born 1792,the 6th Earl of Buckinghamshire,
born 1793,and the 2nd of Stradbroke,born 1794,
commissioned in the Army in 1810,a Lieutenant 1814,
who missed Waterloo on account of a wound.
The Earl of Sandwich had held his title since 1818.
The 9th Viscount of Arbuthnott(born 1806) was alive,the
current peer is the 17th.
The 1st Viscount Portman (born 1799,first elected MP in 1823) was
alive,the present peer is the 10th.
The oldest Viscount,however,was the 1st and last of Eversley,born in 1794
and Speaker of the House of Commons 1839-57.
The senior Viscount was the 2nd Frankfort de Montmorency,
who had inherited his title in 1822.
Barons included the 3rd Baron Gardner,who had inherited that title
in 1815,the 2nd Baron Mostyn(born 1795,great-great-great-great-
grandfather of the present peer),the 2nd Baron Brougham and Vaux
(born 1795,great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer),
the 16th Baron Saye and Sele(born 1799,great-great-grandfather of
the 100-year-old present peer),the 1st Baron Cottesloe (born 1798,great-great-great-grandfather of the present peer),
and the 1st Lord Ebury,born 1801 and a Privy Counsellor since 1830;
the oldest peerage holder was Lady Sempill,born 1790 or possibly 1789.
The Lord Bishop of Chichester was Richard Durnford,born 1802.
Sir Moses Montefiore,born 1784,was the oldest baronet.
Sir Thomas Sabine Pasley had held his baronetcy since 1808.

Cardinal Manning (born 1808) was Catholic Archbishop of Westminster,
but Cardinal Newman(born 1801) was the oldest British cardinal.

Abroad Alexander III had most of his reign as Emperor and
Tsar-Autocrat of all the Russias ahead of him and Leo XIII
(born 1810) had most of his time as Pope ahead of him
(in each case more than four-fifths of their reign).
Slavery was still legal in Brazil and would be for years.
Wilhelm I,grandfather of the World War I Kaiser,born in 1797,
still ruled Germany.

Consider all the changes,natural and manmade,visited upon the world
in all the time since.

And now consider this...Queen Elizabeth II has been on the Throne
for MOST of that time since then.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.talk.royalty, alt.politics.british, alt.society.monarchy

Today the Prince of Wales is two months from 73,
and his investiture ceremony July 1st 1969 has
just passed within the first quarter of the Queen's reign.

At the reign's midpoint he was 38,and when he turned 55
the reign was still closer to its midpoint than its eventual
end,a disparity that grows daily.

I also note the death of the Prime Minister's mother,
who was nine years old at the Queen's accession.
(David Cameron remains the only Prime Minister born
after the death of the Queen's first Prime Minister,
but his mother was born eight years before Johnson's).

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Consider,if you would,the United Kingdom and Empire
as they were on July 3rd 1882.

Queen Victoria,under 6 weeks past 63,was on the throne;
her Golden Jubilee would be in the fifth year following,her
Diamond Jubilee ten years after that.The future Edward VII was over
4 months from 41 (the current Prince of Wales is only 2 months from 73),
the future George V was only a month past 17(the Duke of Cambridge is
over 2 months past 39--George V was made Prince of Wales at 36 when
all his children were younger than Prince George is now),not yet
Duke of York,and not yet heir apparent to his father;nor was his elder
brother (who had over nine and a half years to live) yet 19.
The future Archbishop of Canterbury who would crown King Edward was
Bishop of Exeter.The oldest British royal was George III's daughter-in-law
the Duchess of Cambridge (Augusta of Hesse-Cassel),born 1797 and with
over six years to live.

The Church of England dioceses of Birmingham,Blackburn,Bristol, Coventry,Chelmsford,Derby,Guildford,Leicester,Portsmouth,
St. Edmundsbury and Ipswich,Sheffield,and Southwark did not yet
exist...nor did those of Bradford and Wakefield,now abolished,
or that of Southwell,from which Derby would one day be severed.That of Newcastle was under 6 weeks old.

Lloyd George,Macdonald,Baldwin,and Chamberlain were teenagers,Churchill
was seven years old,and no later Prime Minister(including Attlee)
had yet been born (nor had any person in the world alive after 1999).
Keir Hardie,who years later would found the original Scottish
Labour Party,then the Independent Labour Party,and then the Labour
Party proper,was still in his twenties and had never been an MP.

William Gladstone (born 1809) was the only living person who had been
Prime Minister (years younger than his predecessors).His government
had not yet sought passage of the Representation of the People Act 1884
(which would for the first time enable most men to vote),which would
be followed by the Redistribution of Seats Act 1885 (which would establish
the norm of single-member constituencies) which would first come into
effect with the following election.
Women would not vote in a General Election for over thirty-six years. Christopher Rice Mansel Talbot(born 1803),Father of the House of Commons,
had been a member since 1830...before any of the Reform Bills.(Charles
James Mahon,born 1800,had been a member discontinuously since then).
Lord Coleridge (born 1820) was Lord Chief Justice,and had been
the last Chief Justice of the Common Pleas (a position abolished
by the Judicature Act of 1873).The 1st Lord Esher(born 1815 or 1817,
sources disagree,and not yet a peer) was Master of the Rolls.

Many of the Colonies had yet to be colonized,Hong Kong was over a
decade from adding the New Territories.

Battleships that would be scrapped as obsolete in the reign of Edward VII
had yet to be laid down,nor had either HMS Victoria,which would sink in
an 1893 collision,or the ironclad HMS Camperdown,which would sink it.
Ships built with sailing rigs were still in the active fleet,
some with wooden hulls were still performing reserve and training functions, and it was years before HMS Temeraire would make port under sail alone
for the final time.

The Admirals of the Fleet included Sir George Sartorius(born
1790,a commander in 1812 and post-captain in 1814),and
Sir Provo Wallis (born 1791,a lieutenant 1808,and commander 1813);
Sartorius had been a midshipman on HMS Tonnant at Trafalgar in 1805
nearly 9 years before Francis Scott Key's visit to that ship led to
"The Star-Spangled Banner" being written,witnessed the surrender of Napoleon,commanded a fleet in the Portugese Civil War of the 1830s,
and risen through the admiral ranks starting in 1849;Wallis had
taken temporary command of HMS Shannon when it captured USS
Chesapeake in 1813.
The 1st Baron Strathnairn(born 1801) was a Field Marshal,
while Sir Richard Dacres(born 1799),the 3rd Earl of Lucan
(born 1800,a lieutenant colonel 1826),who had ordered the
Charge of the Light Brigade,and three men born in 1804
had yet to receive promotion to that rank.

The eldest Dukes included the 6th of Northumberland(b. 1810, great-great-great-grandfather of the 11th and the current 12th Duke)
the 2nd of Wellington(b. 1807,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather
of the present 9th Duke born 1945,an MP 1829 and army major 1830),
the 7th of Devonshire(b. 1808,great-great-great-grandfather of the
present 12th duke born 1944,he had first become an MP in 1829 and
a peer in 1834),the 5th of Buccleuch/7th of Queensberry(b. 1806,
succeeded in 1819,a Knight of the Garter since 1835,great-great-great- grandfather of the present 12th Duke),the 12th of Somerset(b. 1804,
second cousin of the great-great-great-grandfather of the current 19th Duke), and the 4th (and last) of Cleveland (born 1803).
The 1st Duke of Abercorn,so created in 1868,had succeeded to the
Marquessate thereof in 1818 and been a Knight of the Garter since 1844.
The 3rd Marquess of Donegall (born 1797) was alive and would be
succeeded by a younger brother born in 1799(the present peer is the great-great-great-grandson of their first cousin).
The 7th Earl of Shaftesbury(born 1801,an MP from 1826,great- great-great-grandfather of the present peer and his predecessor),the
3rd Earl Grey (born 1802,also an MP from 1826,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer and of his predecessor),and the 2nd Earl of Harrowby(born 1798,an MP from 1819,
a Lord of the Admiralty in 1827,great-great-great-grandfather of the septuagenarian present Earl) were among the Knights of the Garter.
The 1st Earl of Lovelace (born 1805) had over a decade to live,and
had been a Lord-Lieutenant since 1840.
The 3rd and 4th Earl of Mansfield and Mansfield(born 1806 and with
over 15 years to live) had been a Knight of the Thistle since 1843,
and had been an MP from 1830 to 1840,with a spell in Government 1834-5.
The 4th Earl of Arran(born 1801) had been a Knight of
St. Patrick since 1841 and been charge d'affaires in
Buenos Aires 1832-4.
Also among the Earls were the 6th Earl of Essex(born 1803),
and the 6th of Albemarle,born 1799,a veteran of the Battle of Waterloo.
The eldest of Earls were the 2nd Earl Mount Cashell,
born 1792,the 6th Earl of Buckinghamshire,
born 1793,and the 2nd of Stradbroke,born 1794,
commissioned in the Army in 1810,a Lieutenant 1814,
who missed Waterloo on account of a wound.
The Earl of Sandwich had held his title since 1818.
The 9th Viscount of Arbuthnott(born 1806) was alive,the
current peer is the 17th.
The 1st Viscount Portman (born 1799,first elected MP in 1823) was
alive,the present peer is the 10th.
The oldest Viscount,however,was the 1st and last of Eversley,born in 1794
and Speaker of the House of Commons 1839-57.
The senior Viscount was the 2nd Frankfort de Montmorency,
who had inherited his title in 1822.
Barons included the 3rd Baron Gardner,who had inherited that title
in 1815,the 2nd Baron Mostyn(born 1795,great-great-great-great-
grandfather of the present peer),the 2nd Baron Brougham and Vaux
(born 1795,great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer),
the 16th Baron Saye and Sele(born 1799,great-great-grandfather of
the 100-year-old present peer),the 1st Baron Cottesloe (born 1798,great-great-great-grandfather of the present peer),
and the 1st Lord Ebury,born 1801 and a Privy Counsellor since 1830;
the oldest peerage holder was Lady Sempill,born 1790 or possibly 1789.
The Lord Bishop of Chichester was Richard Durnford,born 1802.
Sir Moses Montefiore,born 1784,was the oldest baronet.
Sir Thomas Sabine Pasley had held his baronetcy since 1808.

Cardinal Manning (born 1808) was Catholic Archbishop of Westminster,
but Cardinal Newman(born 1801) was the oldest British cardinal.

Abroad Alexander III had most of his reign as Emperor and
Tsar-Autocrat of all the Russias ahead of him and Leo XIII
(born 1810) had most of his time as Pope ahead of him
(in each case more than four-fifths of their reign).
Slavery was still legal in Brazil and would be for years.
Wilhelm I,grandfather of the World War I Kaiser,born in 1797,
still ruled Germany.

Consider all the changes,natural and manmade,visited upon the world
in all the time since.

And now consider this...Queen Elizabeth II has been on the Throne
for MOST of that time since then.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.talk.royalty, alt.politics.british, alt.society.monarchy

Another of those just-caught-a-mistake revisions
after an unusually short interval...I realized that
the reference date (now moving back into the first half
of 1882) had moved past the appointment of Lord Esher
as Master of the Rolls.(His predecessor was younger than
he so not noted below).

The current Lord Chief Justice and Master of the Rolls
were born during the current reign.

The Duke of Cambridge is now 3 months past 39 and the
Queen 5 months past 95...Her Majesty reached his current
age in July 1965 and he would reach hers in November 2077.
Prince George would not reach the latter until December 2108.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Consider,if you would,the United Kingdom and Empire
as they were on June 28th 1882.

Queen Victoria,only 5 weeks past 63,was on the throne;
her Golden Jubilee would be in the fifth year following,her
Diamond Jubilee ten years after that.The future Edward VII was over
4 months from 41 (the current Prince of Wales is under 8 weeks from 73),
the future George V was under 4 weeks past 17(the Duke of Cambridge is
now 3 months past 39--George V was made Prince of Wales at 36 when
all his children were younger than Prince George is now),not yet
Duke of York,and not yet heir apparent to his father;nor was his elder
brother (who had over nine and a half years to live) yet 19.
The future Archbishop of Canterbury who would crown King Edward was
Bishop of Exeter.The oldest British royal was George III's daughter-in-law
the Duchess of Cambridge (Augusta of Hesse-Cassel),born 1797 and with
over six years to live.

The Church of England dioceses of Birmingham,Blackburn,Bristol, Coventry,Chelmsford,Derby,Guildford,Leicester,Portsmouth,
St. Edmundsbury and Ipswich,Sheffield,and Southwark did not yet
exist...nor did those of Bradford and Wakefield,now abolished,
or that of Southwell,from which Derby would one day be severed.That of Newcastle was barely 5 weeks old.

Lloyd George,Macdonald,Baldwin,and Chamberlain were teenagers,Churchill
was seven years old,and no later Prime Minister(including Attlee)
had yet been born (nor had any person in the world alive after 1999).
Keir Hardie,who years later would found the original Scottish
Labour Party,then the Independent Labour Party,and then the Labour
Party proper,was still in his twenties and had never been an MP.

William Gladstone (born 1809) was the only living person who had been
Prime Minister (years younger than his predecessors).His government
had not yet sought passage of the Representation of the People Act 1884
(which would for the first time enable most men to vote),which would
be followed by the Redistribution of Seats Act 1885 (which would establish
the norm of single-member constituencies) which would first come into
effect with the following election.
Women would not vote in a General Election for over thirty-six years. Christopher Rice Mansel Talbot(born 1803),Father of the House of Commons,
had been a member since 1830...before any of the Reform Bills.(Charles
James Mahon,born 1800,had been a member discontinuously since then).

Lord Coleridge (born 1820) was Lord Chief Justice,and had been
the last Chief Justice of the Common Pleas (a position abolished
by the Judicature Act of 1873).The 1st Lord Esher(born 1815 or 1817,
sources disagree) had yet to become Master of the Rolls.The Royal
Courts of Justice building was under construction and today's Old
Bailey would not open for decades.

Many of the Colonies had yet to be colonized,Hong Kong was over a
decade from adding the New Territories.

Battleships that would be scrapped as obsolete in the reign of Edward VII
had yet to be laid down,nor had either HMS Victoria,which would sink in
an 1893 collision,or the ironclad HMS Camperdown,which would sink it.
Ships built with sailing rigs were still in the active fleet,
some with wooden hulls were still performing reserve and training functions, and it was years before HMS Temeraire would make port under sail alone
for the final time.

The Admirals of the Fleet included Sir George Sartorius(born
1790,a commander in 1812 and post-captain in 1814),and
Sir Provo Wallis (born 1791,a lieutenant 1808,and commander 1813);
Sartorius had been a midshipman on HMS Tonnant at Trafalgar in 1805
nearly 9 years before Francis Scott Key's visit to that ship led to
"The Star-Spangled Banner" being written,witnessed the surrender of Napoleon,commanded a fleet in the Portugese Civil War of the 1830s,
and risen through the admiral ranks starting in 1849;Wallis had
taken temporary command of HMS Shannon when it captured USS
Chesapeake in 1813.
The 1st Baron Strathnairn(born 1801) was a Field Marshal,
while Sir Richard Dacres(born 1799),the 3rd Earl of Lucan
(born 1800,a lieutenant colonel 1826),who had ordered the
Charge of the Light Brigade,and three men born in 1804
had yet to receive promotion to that rank.

The eldest Dukes included the 6th of Northumberland(b. 1810, great-great-great-grandfather of the 11th and the current 12th Duke)
the 2nd of Wellington(b. 1807,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather
of the present 9th Duke born 1945,an MP 1829 and army major 1830),
the 7th of Devonshire(b. 1808,great-great-great-grandfather of the
present 12th duke born 1944,he had first become an MP in 1829 and
a peer in 1834),the 5th of Buccleuch/7th of Queensberry(b. 1806,
succeeded in 1819,a Knight of the Garter since 1835,great-great-great- grandfather of the present 12th Duke),the 12th of Somerset(b. 1804,
second cousin of the great-great-great-grandfather of the current 19th Duke), and the 4th (and last) of Cleveland (born 1803).
The 1st Duke of Abercorn,so created in 1868,had succeeded to the
Marquessate thereof in 1818 and been a Knight of the Garter since 1844.
The 3rd Marquess of Donegall (born 1797) was alive and would be
succeeded by a younger brother born in 1799(the present peer is the great-great-great-grandson of their first cousin).
The 7th Earl of Shaftesbury(born 1801,an MP from 1826,great- great-great-grandfather of the present peer and his predecessor),the
3rd Earl Grey (born 1802,also an MP from 1826,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer and of his predecessor),and the 2nd Earl of Harrowby(born 1798,an MP from 1819,
a Lord of the Admiralty in 1827,great-great-great-grandfather of the septuagenarian present Earl) were among the Knights of the Garter.
The 1st Earl of Lovelace (born 1805) had over a decade to live,and
had been a Lord-Lieutenant since 1840.
The 3rd and 4th Earl of Mansfield and Mansfield(born 1806 and with
over 15 years to live) had been a Knight of the Thistle since 1843,
and had been an MP from 1830 to 1840,with a spell in Government 1834-5.
The 4th Earl of Arran(born 1801) had been a Knight of
St. Patrick since 1841 and been charge d'affaires in
Buenos Aires 1832-4.
Also among the Earls were the 6th Earl of Essex(born 1803),
and the 6th of Albemarle,born 1799,a veteran of the Battle of Waterloo.
The eldest of Earls were the 2nd Earl Mount Cashell,
born 1792,the 6th Earl of Buckinghamshire,
born 1793,and the 2nd of Stradbroke,born 1794,
commissioned in the Army in 1810,a Lieutenant 1814,
who missed Waterloo on account of a wound.
The Earl of Sandwich had held his title since 1818.
The 9th Viscount of Arbuthnott(born 1806) was alive,the
current peer is the 17th.
The 1st Viscount Portman (born 1799,first elected MP in 1823) was
alive,the present peer is the 10th.
The oldest Viscount,however,was the 1st and last of Eversley,born in 1794
and Speaker of the House of Commons 1839-57.
The senior Viscount was the 2nd Frankfort de Montmorency,
who had inherited his title in 1822.
Barons included the 3rd Baron Gardner,who had inherited that title
in 1815,the 2nd Baron Mostyn(born 1795,great-great-great-great-
grandfather of the present peer),the 2nd Baron Brougham and Vaux
(born 1795,great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer),
the 16th Baron Saye and Sele(born 1799,great-great-grandfather of
the 100-year-old present peer),the 1st Baron Cottesloe (born 1798,great-great-great-grandfather of the present peer),
and the 1st Lord Ebury,born 1801 and a Privy Counsellor since 1830;
the oldest peerage holder was Lady Sempill,born 1790 or possibly 1789.
The Lord Bishop of Chichester was Richard Durnford,born 1802.
Sir Moses Montefiore,born 1784,was the oldest baronet.
Sir Thomas Sabine Pasley had held his baronetcy since 1808.

Cardinal Manning (born 1808) was Catholic Archbishop of Westminster,
but Cardinal Newman(born 1801) was the oldest British cardinal.

Abroad Alexander III had most of his reign as Emperor and
Tsar-Autocrat of all the Russias ahead of him and Leo XIII
(born 1810) had most of his time as Pope ahead of him
(in each case more than four-fifths of their reign).
Slavery was still legal in Brazil and would be for years.
Wilhelm I,grandfather of the World War I Kaiser,born in 1797,
still ruled Germany.

Consider all the changes,natural and manmade,visited upon the world
in all the time since.

And now consider this...Queen Elizabeth II has been on the Throne
for MOST of that time since then.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.talk.royalty, alt.politics.british, alt.society.monarchy

The reference date in the file moves back before the
17th birthday of George V...and is about to reach the
fifteenth birthday of his wife(born May 26th 1867).

The midpoint of the present reign has moved forward past
the fiftieth anniversary of the abdication of Edward VIII.
(When I first started posting the file the reference date
was just months before his birth and the midpoint of the
current reign was in early 1981 before the marriage of the
Prince of Wales).

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Consider,if you would,the United Kingdom and Empire
as they were on May 30th 1882.

Queen Victoria,under a week past 63,was on the throne;
she was five years from her Golden Jubilee,her Diamond Jubilee
would be ten years after that.The future Edward VII was over
5 months from 41 (the current Prince of Wales is under 4 weeks from 73),
the future George V was 4 days from 17(the Duke of Cambridge is
over 3 months past 39--George V was made Prince of Wales at 36 when
all his children were younger than Prince George is now),not yet
Duke of York,and not yet heir apparent to his father;nor was his elder
brother (who had over nine and a half years to live) yet 19.
The future Archbishop of Canterbury who would crown King Edward was
Bishop of Exeter.The oldest British royal was George III's daughter-in-law
the Duchess of Cambridge (Augusta of Hesse-Cassel),born 1797 and with
over six and a half years to live.

The Church of England dioceses of Birmingham,Blackburn,Bristol, Coventry,Chelmsford,Derby,Guildford,Leicester,Portsmouth,
St. Edmundsbury and Ipswich,Sheffield,and Southwark did not yet
exist...nor did those of Bradford and Wakefield,now abolished,
or that of Southwell,from which Derby would one day be severed.That of Newcastle was one week old.

Lloyd George,Macdonald,Baldwin,and Chamberlain were teenagers,Churchill
was seven years old,and no later Prime Minister(including Attlee)
had yet been born (nor had any person in the world alive after 1999).
Keir Hardie,who years later would found the original Scottish
Labour Party,then the Independent Labour Party,and then the Labour
Party proper,was aged twenty-five and would not be an MP for over
a decade.

William Gladstone (born 1809) was the only living person who had been
Prime Minister (years younger than his predecessors).His government
had not yet sought passage of the Representation of the People Act 1884
(which would for the first time enable most men to vote),which would
be followed by the Redistribution of Seats Act 1885 (which would establish
the norm of single-member constituencies) which would first come into
effect with the following election.
Women would not vote in a General Election for over thirty-six years. Christopher Rice Mansel Talbot(born 1803),Father of the House of Commons,
had been a member since 1830...before any of the Reform Bills.(Charles
James Mahon,born 1800,had been a member discontinuously since then).

Lord Coleridge (born 1820) was Lord Chief Justice,and had been
the last Chief Justice of the Common Pleas (a position abolished
by the Judicature Act of 1873).The 1st Lord Esher(born 1815 or 1817,
sources disagree) had yet to become Master of the Rolls.The Royal
Courts of Justice building was under construction and today's Old
Bailey would not open for decades.

Many of the Colonies had yet to be colonized,Hong Kong was over a
decade from adding the New Territories.

Battleships that would be scrapped as obsolete in the reign of Edward VII
had yet to be laid down,nor had either HMS Victoria,which would sink in
an 1893 collision,or the ironclad HMS Camperdown,which would sink it.
Ships built with sailing rigs were still in the active fleet,
some with wooden hulls were still performing reserve and training functions, and it was years before HMS Temeraire would make port under sail alone
for the final time.

The Admirals of the Fleet included Sir George Sartorius(born
1790,a commander in 1812 and post-captain in 1814),and
Sir Provo Wallis (born 1791,a lieutenant 1808,and commander 1813);
Sartorius had been a midshipman on HMS Tonnant at Trafalgar in 1805
nearly 9 years before Francis Scott Key's visit to that ship led to
"The Star-Spangled Banner" being written,witnessed the surrender of Napoleon,commanded a fleet in the Portugese Civil War of the 1830s,
and risen through the admiral ranks starting in 1849;Wallis had
taken temporary command of HMS Shannon when it captured USS
Chesapeake in 1813.
The 1st Baron Strathnairn(born 1801) was a Field Marshal,
while Sir Richard Dacres(born 1799),the 3rd Earl of Lucan
(born 1800,a lieutenant colonel 1826),who had ordered the
Charge of the Light Brigade,and three men born in 1804
had yet to receive promotion to that rank.

The eldest Dukes included the 6th of Northumberland(b. 1810, great-great-great-grandfather of the 11th and the current 12th Duke)
the 2nd of Wellington(b. 1807,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather
of the present 9th Duke born 1945,an MP 1829 and army major 1830),
the 7th of Devonshire(b. 1808,great-great-great-grandfather of the
present 12th duke born 1944,he had first become an MP in 1829 and
a peer in 1834),the 5th of Buccleuch/7th of Queensberry(b. 1806,
succeeded in 1819,a Knight of the Garter since 1835,great-great-great- grandfather of the present 12th Duke),the 12th of Somerset(b. 1804,
second cousin of the great-great-great-grandfather of the current 19th Duke), and the 4th (and last) of Cleveland (born 1803).
The 1st Duke of Abercorn,so created in 1868,had succeeded to the
Marquessate thereof in 1818 and been a Knight of the Garter since 1844.
The 3rd Marquess of Donegall (born 1797) was alive and would be
succeeded by a younger brother born in 1799(the present peer is the great-great-great-grandson of their first cousin).
The 7th Earl of Shaftesbury(born 1801,an MP from 1826,great- great-great-grandfather of the present peer and his predecessor),the
3rd Earl Grey (born 1802,also an MP from 1826,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer and of his predecessor),and the 2nd Earl of Harrowby(born 1798,an MP from 1819,
a Lord of the Admiralty in 1827,great-great-great-grandfather of the septuagenarian present Earl) were among the Knights of the Garter.
The 1st Earl of Lovelace (born 1805) had over a decade to live,and
had been a Lord-Lieutenant since 1840.
The 3rd and 4th Earl of Mansfield and Mansfield(born 1806 and with
over 15 years to live) had been a Knight of the Thistle since 1843,
and had been an MP from 1830 to 1840,with a spell in Government 1834-5.
The 4th Earl of Arran(born 1801) had been a Knight of
St. Patrick since 1841 and been charge d'affaires in
Buenos Aires 1832-4.
Also among the Earls were the 6th Earl of Essex(born 1803),
and the 6th of Albemarle,born 1799,a veteran of the Battle of Waterloo.
The eldest of Earls were the 2nd Earl Mount Cashell,
born 1792,the 6th Earl of Buckinghamshire,
born 1793,and the 2nd of Stradbroke,born 1794,
commissioned in the Army in 1810,a Lieutenant 1814,
who missed Waterloo on account of a wound.
The Earl of Sandwich had held his title since 1818.
The 9th Viscount of Arbuthnott(born 1806) was alive,the
current peer is the 17th.
The 1st Viscount Portman (born 1799,first elected MP in 1823) was
alive,the present peer is the 10th.
The oldest Viscount,however,was the 1st and last of Eversley,born in 1794
and Speaker of the House of Commons 1839-57.
The senior Viscount was the 2nd Frankfort de Montmorency,
who had inherited his title in 1822.
Barons included the 3rd Baron Gardner,who had inherited that title
in 1815,the 2nd Baron Mostyn(born 1795,great-great-great-great-
grandfather of the present peer),the 2nd Baron Brougham and Vaux
(born 1795,great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer),
the 16th Baron Saye and Sele(born 1799,great-great-grandfather of
the 100-year-old present peer),the 1st Baron Cottesloe (born 1798,great-great-great-grandfather of the present peer),
and the 1st Lord Ebury,born 1801 and a Privy Counsellor since 1830;
the oldest peerage holder was Lady Sempill,born 1790 or possibly 1789.
The Lord Bishop of Chichester was Richard Durnford,born 1802.
Sir Moses Montefiore,born 1784,was the oldest baronet.
Sir Thomas Sabine Pasley had held his baronetcy since 1808.

Cardinal Manning (born 1808) was Catholic Archbishop of Westminster,
but Cardinal Newman(born 1801) was the oldest British cardinal.

Abroad Alexander III had most of his reign as Emperor and
Tsar-Autocrat of all the Russias ahead of him and Leo XIII
(born 1810) had most of his time as Pope ahead of him
(in each case more than four-fifths of their reign).
Slavery was still legal in Brazil and would be for years.
Wilhelm I,grandfather of the World War I Kaiser,born in 1797,
still ruled Germany.

Consider all the changes,natural and manmade,visited upon the world
in all the time since.

And now consider this...Queen Elizabeth II has been on the Throne
for MOST of that time since then.



-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.talk.royalty, alt.politics.british, alt.society.monarchy

An update for the 73rd birthday of the Prince of Wales.
He is of course the oldest-ever son and child,
and the Princess Royal the oldest-ever daughter and second-oldest
ever child and oldest-ever second-oldest-child of a living
Sovereign;
as of today the Princess Royal's children have both these
distinctions for grandchildren as well,as Zara Phillips passes
Charlotte of Saxe-Meiningen (eldest daughter of Queen Victoria's
eldest daughter) as her brother passed Kaiser Wilhelm II years ago.
The Duke of Cambridge's sons hold the records for oldest-ever
second- and third-oldest grandsons.

Feodora of Saxe-Meiningen,however,seems secure in the eldest
great-grandchild record,still over a decade ahead of Savannah
Phillips.

Even Prince Louis is now older than the Prince of Wales was
when he became Heir Apparent.

We must hope the Queen recovers from her current illness,
but in the meantime the file now reflects Her Majesty having
reigned for most of the entire history of the Diocese of
Newcastle.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Consider,if you would,the United Kingdom and Empire
as they were on May 3rd 1882.

Queen Victoria,3 weeks from 63,was on the throne;
she was over five years from her Golden Jubilee,her Diamond Jubilee
would be ten years after that.The future Edward VII was over
6 months from 41 (the current Prince of Wales is now 73),
the future George V was a month from 17(the Duke of Cambridge is
over 4 months past 39--George V was made Prince of Wales at 36 when
all his children were younger than Prince George is now),not yet
Duke of York,and not yet heir apparent to his father;nor was his elder
brother (who had over nine and a half years to live) yet 19.
The future Archbishop of Canterbury who would crown King Edward was
Bishop of Exeter.The oldest British royal was George III's daughter-in-law
the Duchess of Cambridge (Augusta of Hesse-Cassel),born 1797 and with
over six and a half years to live.

The Church of England dioceses of Birmingham,Blackburn,Bristol, Coventry,Chelmsford,Derby,Guildford,Leicester,Newcastle,Portsmouth,
St. Edmundsbury and Ipswich,Sheffield,and Southwark did not yet
exist...nor did those of Bradford and Wakefield,now abolished,
or that of Southwell,from which Derby would one day be severed.That of Liverpool was 2 years old.

Lloyd George,Macdonald,Baldwin,and Chamberlain were teenagers,Churchill
was seven years old,and no later Prime Minister(including Attlee)
had yet been born (nor had any person in the world alive after 1999).
Keir Hardie,who years later would found the original Scottish
Labour Party,then the Independent Labour Party,and then the Labour
Party proper,was aged twenty-five and would not be an MP for over
a decade.

William Gladstone (born 1809) was the only living person who had been
Prime Minister (years younger than his predecessors).His government
had not yet sought passage of the Representation of the People Act 1884
(which would for the first time enable most men to vote),which would
be followed by the Redistribution of Seats Act 1885 (which would establish
the norm of single-member constituencies) which would first come into
effect with the following election.
Women would not vote in a General Election for over thirty-six years. Christopher Rice Mansel Talbot(born 1803),Father of the House of Commons,
had been a member since 1830...before any of the Reform Bills.(Charles
James Mahon,born 1800,had been a member discontinuously since then).

Lord Coleridge (born 1820) was Lord Chief Justice,and had been
the last Chief Justice of the Common Pleas (a position abolished
by the Judicature Act of 1873).The 1st Lord Esher(born 1815 or 1817,
sources disagree) had yet to become Master of the Rolls.The Royal
Courts of Justice building was under construction and today's Old
Bailey would not open for decades.

Many of the Colonies had yet to be colonized,Hong Kong was over a
decade from adding the New Territories.

Battleships that would be scrapped as obsolete in the reign of Edward VII
had yet to be laid down,nor had either HMS Victoria,which would sink in
an 1893 collision,or the ironclad HMS Camperdown,which would sink it.
Ships built with sailing rigs were still in the active fleet,
some with wooden hulls were still performing reserve and training functions, and it was years before HMS Temeraire would make port under sail alone
for the final time.

The Admirals of the Fleet included Sir George Sartorius(born
1790,a commander in 1812 and post-captain in 1814),and
Sir Provo Wallis (born 1791,a lieutenant 1808,and commander 1813);
Sartorius had been a midshipman on HMS Tonnant at Trafalgar in 1805
nearly 9 years before Francis Scott Key's visit to that ship led to
"The Star-Spangled Banner" being written,witnessed the surrender of Napoleon,commanded a fleet in the Portugese Civil War of the 1830s,
and risen through the admiral ranks starting in 1849;Wallis had
taken temporary command of HMS Shannon when it captured USS
Chesapeake in 1813.
The 1st Baron Strathnairn(born 1801) was a Field Marshal,
while Sir Richard Dacres(born 1799),the 3rd Earl of Lucan
(born 1800,a lieutenant colonel 1826),who had ordered the
Charge of the Light Brigade,and three men born in 1804
had yet to receive promotion to that rank.

The eldest Dukes included the 6th of Northumberland(b. 1810, great-great-great-grandfather of the 11th and the current 12th Duke)
the 2nd of Wellington(b. 1807,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather
of the present 9th Duke born 1945,an MP 1829 and army major 1830),
the 7th of Devonshire(b. 1808,great-great-great-grandfather of the
present 12th duke born 1944,he had first become an MP in 1829 and
a peer in 1834),the 5th of Buccleuch/7th of Queensberry(b. 1806,
succeeded in 1819,a Knight of the Garter since 1835,great-great-great- grandfather of the present 12th Duke),the 12th of Somerset(b. 1804,
second cousin of the great-great-great-grandfather of the current 19th Duke), and the 4th (and last) of Cleveland (born 1803).
The 1st Duke of Abercorn,so created in 1868,had succeeded to the
Marquessate thereof in 1818 and been a Knight of the Garter since 1844.
The 3rd Marquess of Donegall (born 1797) was alive and would be
succeeded by a younger brother born in 1799(the present peer is the great-great-great-grandson of their first cousin).
The 7th Earl of Shaftesbury(born 1801,an MP from 1826,great- great-great-grandfather of the present peer and his predecessor),the
3rd Earl Grey (born 1802,also an MP from 1826,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer and of his predecessor),and the 2nd Earl of Harrowby(born 1798,an MP from 1819,
a Lord of the Admiralty in 1827,great-great-great-grandfather of the septuagenarian present Earl) were among the Knights of the Garter.
The 1st Earl of Lovelace (born 1805) had over a decade to live,and
had been a Lord-Lieutenant since 1840.
The 3rd and 4th Earl of Mansfield and Mansfield(born 1806 and with
over 15 years to live) had been a Knight of the Thistle since 1843,
and had been an MP from 1830 to 1840,with a spell in Government 1834-5.
The 4th Earl of Arran(born 1801) had been a Knight of
St. Patrick since 1841 and been charge d'affaires in
Buenos Aires 1832-4.
Also among the Earls were the 6th Earl of Essex(born 1803),
and the 6th of Albemarle,born 1799,a veteran of the Battle of Waterloo.
The eldest of Earls were the 2nd Earl Mount Cashell,
born 1792,the 6th Earl of Buckinghamshire,
born 1793,and the 2nd of Stradbroke,born 1794,
commissioned in the Army in 1810,a Lieutenant 1814,
who missed Waterloo on account of a wound.
The Earl of Sandwich had held his title since 1818.
The 9th Viscount of Arbuthnott(born 1806) was alive,the
current peer is the 17th.
The 1st Viscount Portman (born 1799,first elected MP in 1823) was
alive,the present peer is the 10th.
The oldest Viscount,however,was the 1st and last of Eversley,born in 1794
and Speaker of the House of Commons 1839-57.
The senior Viscount was the 2nd Frankfort de Montmorency,
who had inherited his title in 1822.
Barons included the 3rd Baron Gardner,who had inherited that title
in 1815,the 2nd Baron Mostyn(born 1795,great-great-great-great-
grandfather of the present peer),the 2nd Baron Brougham and Vaux
(born 1795,great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer),
the 16th Baron Saye and Sele(born 1799,great-great-grandfather of
the 100-year-old present peer),the 1st Baron Cottesloe (born 1798,great-great-great-grandfather of the present peer),
and the 1st Lord Ebury,born 1801 and a Privy Counsellor since 1830;
the oldest peerage holder was Lady Sempill,born 1790 or possibly 1789.
The Lord Bishop of Chichester was Richard Durnford,born 1802.
Sir Moses Montefiore,born 1784,was the oldest baronet.
Sir Thomas Sabine Pasley had held his baronetcy since 1808.

Cardinal Manning (born 1808) was Catholic Archbishop of Westminster,
but Cardinal Newman(born 1801) was the oldest British cardinal.

Abroad Alexander III had most of his reign as Emperor and
Tsar-Autocrat of all the Russias ahead of him and Leo XIII
(born 1810) had most of his time as Pope ahead of him
(in each case more than four-fifths of their reign).
Slavery was still legal in Brazil and would be for years.
Wilhelm I,grandfather of the World War I Kaiser,born in 1797,
still ruled Germany.

Consider all the changes,natural and manmade,visited upon the world
in all the time since.

And now consider this...Queen Elizabeth II has been on the Throne
for MOST of that time since then.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.talk.royalty, alt.politics.british, alt.society.monarchy

The midpoint of the current reign has entered 1987,
and the two-thirds point is a year after the death
of the late Princess of Wales.

The reference date on the file will soon be within
the first year of the reign of Alexander III,and I
will likely use that rather than fraction of reign
(now updated as applicable to him and Pope Leo)
in reference to him in the future.

This is probably the last update before Neville
Chamberlain is no longer recalled as a teenager
(born March 18,1869).

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Consider,if you would,the United Kingdom and Empire
as they were on April 5th 1882.

Queen Victoria,7 weeks from 63,was on the throne;
she was over five years from her Golden Jubilee,her Diamond Jubilee
would be ten years after that.The future Edward VII was under
5 months past 40 (the current Prince of Wales is now 4 weeks past 73),
the future George V was over 8 weeks from 17(the Duke of Cambridge is
over 5 months past 39--George V became Heir Apparent at 35 when all
his children were younger than Princess Charlotte is now),not yet
Duke of York,and not yet heir apparent to his father;nor was his elder
brother (who had over nine and a half years to live) yet 19.
The future Archbishop of Canterbury who would crown King Edward was
Bishop of Exeter.The oldest British royal was George III's daughter-in-law
the Duchess of Cambridge (Augusta of Hesse-Cassel),born 1797 and with
over seven years to live.

The Church of England dioceses of Birmingham,Blackburn,Bristol, Coventry,Chelmsford,Derby,Guildford,Leicester,Newcastle,Portsmouth,
St. Edmundsbury and Ipswich,Sheffield,and Southwark did not yet
exist...nor did those of Bradford and Wakefield,now abolished,
or that of Southwell,from which Derby would one day be severed.That of Liverpool was under 2 years old.

Lloyd George,Macdonald,Baldwin,and Chamberlain were teenagers,Churchill
was seven years old,and no later Prime Minister(including Attlee)
had yet been born (nor had any person in the world alive after 1999).
Keir Hardie,who years later would found the original Scottish
Labour Party,then the Independent Labour Party,and then the Labour
Party proper,was aged twenty-five and would not be an MP for over
a decade.

William Gladstone (born 1809) was the only living person who had been
Prime Minister (years younger than his predecessors).His government
had not yet sought passage of the Representation of the People Act 1884
(which would for the first time enable most men to vote),which would
be followed by the Redistribution of Seats Act 1885 (which would establish
the norm of single-member constituencies) which would first come into
effect with the following election.
Women would not vote in a General Election for over thirty-six years. Christopher Rice Mansel Talbot(born 1803),Father of the House of Commons,
had been a member since 1830...before any of the Reform Bills.(Charles
James Mahon,born 1800,had been a member discontinuously since then).

Lord Coleridge (born 1820) was Lord Chief Justice,and had been
the last Chief Justice of the Common Pleas (a position abolished
by the Judicature Act of 1873).The 1st Lord Esher(born 1815 or 1817,
sources disagree) had yet to become Master of the Rolls.The Royal
Courts of Justice building was under construction and today's Old
Bailey would not open for decades.

Many of the Colonies had yet to be colonized,Hong Kong was over a
decade from adding the New Territories.

Battleships that would be scrapped as obsolete in the reign of Edward VII
had yet to be laid down,nor had either HMS Victoria,which would sink in
an 1893 collision,or the ironclad HMS Camperdown,which would sink it.
Ships built with sailing rigs were still in the active fleet,
some with wooden hulls were still performing reserve and training functions, and it was years before HMS Temeraire would make port under sail alone
for the final time.

The Admirals of the Fleet included Sir George Sartorius(born
1790,a commander in 1812 and post-captain in 1814),and
Sir Provo Wallis (born 1791,a lieutenant 1808,and commander 1813);
Sartorius had been a midshipman on HMS Tonnant at Trafalgar in 1805
nearly 9 years before Francis Scott Key's visit to that ship led to
"The Star-Spangled Banner" being written,witnessed the surrender of Napoleon,commanded a fleet in the Portugese Civil War of the 1830s,
and risen through the admiral ranks starting in 1849;Wallis had
taken temporary command of HMS Shannon when it captured USS
Chesapeake in 1813.
The 1st Baron Strathnairn(born 1801) was a Field Marshal,
while Sir Richard Dacres(born 1799),the 3rd Earl of Lucan
(born 1800,a lieutenant colonel 1826),who had ordered the
Charge of the Light Brigade,and three men born in 1804
had yet to receive promotion to that rank.

The eldest Dukes included the 6th of Northumberland(b. 1810, great-great-great-grandfather of the 11th and the current 12th Duke)
the 2nd of Wellington(b. 1807,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather
of the present 9th Duke born 1945,an MP 1829 and army major 1830),
the 7th of Devonshire(b. 1808,great-great-great-grandfather of the
present 12th duke born 1944,he had first become an MP in 1829 and
a peer in 1834),the 5th of Buccleuch/7th of Queensberry(b. 1806,
succeeded in 1819,a Knight of the Garter since 1835,great-great-great- grandfather of the present 12th Duke),the 12th of Somerset(b. 1804,
second cousin of the great-great-great-grandfather of the current 19th Duke), and the 4th (and last) of Cleveland (born 1803).
The 1st Duke of Abercorn,so created in 1868,had succeeded to the
Marquessate thereof in 1818 and been a Knight of the Garter since 1844.
The 3rd Marquess of Donegall (born 1797) was alive and would be
succeeded by a younger brother born in 1799(the present peer is the great-great-great-grandson of their first cousin).
The 7th Earl of Shaftesbury(born 1801,an MP from 1826,great- great-great-grandfather of the present peer and his predecessor),the
3rd Earl Grey (born 1802,also an MP from 1826,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer and of his predecessor),and the 2nd Earl of Harrowby(born 1798,an MP from 1819,
a Lord of the Admiralty in 1827,great-great-great-grandfather of the septuagenarian present Earl) were among the Knights of the Garter.
The 1st Earl of Lovelace (born 1805) had over a decade to live,and
had been a Lord-Lieutenant since 1840.
The 3rd and 4th Earl of Mansfield and Mansfield(born 1806 and with
over 15 years to live) had been a Knight of the Thistle since 1843,
and had been an MP from 1830 to 1840,with a spell in Government 1834-5.
The 4th Earl of Arran(born 1801) had been a Knight of
St. Patrick since 1841 and been charge d'affaires in
Buenos Aires 1832-4.
Also among the Earls were the 6th Earl of Essex(born 1803),
and the 6th of Albemarle,born 1799,a veteran of the Battle of Waterloo.
The eldest of Earls were the 2nd Earl Mount Cashell,
born 1792,the 6th Earl of Buckinghamshire,
born 1793,and the 2nd of Stradbroke,born 1794,
commissioned in the Army in 1810,a Lieutenant 1814,
who missed Waterloo on account of a wound.
The Earl of Sandwich had held his title since 1818.
The 9th Viscount of Arbuthnott(born 1806) was alive,the
current peer is the 17th.
The 1st Viscount Portman (born 1799,first elected MP in 1823) was
alive,the present peer is the 10th.
The oldest Viscount,however,was the 1st and last of Eversley,born in 1794
and Speaker of the House of Commons 1839-57.
The senior Viscount was the 2nd Frankfort de Montmorency,
who had inherited his title in 1822.
Barons included the 3rd Baron Gardner,who had inherited that title
in 1815,the 2nd Baron Mostyn(born 1795,great-great-great-great-
grandfather of the present peer),the 2nd Baron Brougham and Vaux
(born 1795,great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer),
the 16th Baron Saye and Sele(born 1799,great-great-grandfather of
the 100-year-old present peer),the 1st Baron Cottesloe (born 1798,great-great-great-grandfather of the present peer),
and the 1st Lord Ebury,born 1801 and a Privy Counsellor since 1830;
the oldest peerage holder was Lady Sempill,born 1790 or possibly 1789.
The Lord Bishop of Chichester was Richard Durnford,born 1802.
Sir Moses Montefiore,born 1784,was the oldest baronet.
Sir Thomas Sabine Pasley had held his baronetcy since 1808.

Cardinal Manning (born 1808) was Catholic Archbishop of Westminster,
but Cardinal Newman(born 1801) was the oldest British cardinal.

Abroad Alexander III had most of his reign as Emperor and
Tsar-Autocrat of all the Russias ahead of him and Leo XIII
(born 1810) had most of his time as Pope ahead of him
(in each case more than five-sixths of their reign).
Slavery was still legal in Brazil and would be for years.
Wilhelm I,grandfather of the World War I Kaiser,born in 1797,
still ruled Germany.

Consider all the changes,natural and manmade,visited upon the world
in all the time since.

And now consider this...Queen Elizabeth II has been on the Throne
for MOST of that time since then.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.talk.royalty, alt.politics.british, alt.society.monarchy

As forecast last time,the Queen has now indeed reigned
for most of the time since Neville Chamberlain entered
his teens,and since less than a year after the assassination
of Alexander II of Russia.

This is the first update of this year,and the 70th
anniversary of the reign is fast approaching...other
milestones to expect this year are

HM's 96th birthday in April

The present reign outlasting the COMBINED reigns of
William IV and Victoria (June 26 1830 to January 22 1901)

The present reign outlasting the entire lifetime of George V
(June 3 1865 to January 20 1936)(It has already outlasted
the lifespans of George IV and Edward VII and others)

The Duke of Cambridge reaching the age at which George VI
became Heir Presumptive(December 14 1895 to January 20 1936)

Here is the present state of the file.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Consider,if you would,the United Kingdom and Empire
as they were on March 12th 1882.

Queen Victoria,over 2 months from 63,was on the throne;
she was over five years from her Golden Jubilee,her Diamond Jubilee
would be ten years after that.The future Edward VII was under
5 months past 40 (the current Prince of Wales is over 7 weeks past 73),
the future George V was over 2 months from 17(the Duke of Cambridge is
over 6 months past 39--George V became Heir Apparent at 35 when all
his children were younger than Princess Charlotte is now),not yet
Duke of York,and not yet heir apparent to his father;nor was his elder
brother (who had over nine and a half years to live) yet 19.
The future Archbishop of Canterbury who would crown King Edward was
Bishop of Exeter.The oldest British royal was George III's daughter-in-law
the Duchess of Cambridge (Augusta of Hesse-Cassel),born 1797 and with
over seven years to live.

The Church of England dioceses of Birmingham,Blackburn,Bristol, Coventry,Chelmsford,Derby,Guildford,Leicester,Newcastle,Portsmouth,
St. Edmundsbury and Ipswich,Sheffield,and Southwark did not yet
exist...nor did those of Bradford and Wakefield,now abolished,
or that of Southwell,from which Derby would one day be severed.That of Liverpool was under 2 years old.

Lloyd George,Macdonald,and Baldwin were teenagers,
Chamberlain was twelve and Churchill was seven years old,
and no later Prime Minister(including Attlee)
had yet been born (nor had any person in the world alive after 1999).
Keir Hardie,who years later would found the original Scottish
Labour Party,then the Independent Labour Party,and then the Labour
Party proper,was aged twenty-five and would not be an MP for over
a decade.

William Gladstone (born 1809) was the only living person who had been
Prime Minister (years younger than his predecessors).His government
had not yet sought passage of the Representation of the People Act 1884
(which would for the first time enable most men to vote),which would
be followed by the Redistribution of Seats Act 1885 (which would establish
the norm of single-member constituencies) which would first come into
effect with the following election.
Women would not vote in a General Election for over thirty-six years. Christopher Rice Mansel Talbot(born 1803),Father of the House of Commons,
had been a member since 1830...before any of the Reform Bills.(Charles
James Mahon,born 1800,had been a member discontinuously since then).

Lord Coleridge (born 1820) was Lord Chief Justice,and had been
the last Chief Justice of the Common Pleas (a position abolished
by the Judicature Act of 1873).The 1st Lord Esher(born 1815 or 1817,
sources disagree) had yet to become Master of the Rolls.The Royal
Courts of Justice building was under construction and today's Old
Bailey would not open for decades.

Many of the Colonies had yet to be colonized,Hong Kong was over a
decade from adding the New Territories.

Battleships that would be scrapped as obsolete in the reign of Edward VII
had yet to be laid down,nor had either HMS Victoria,which would sink in
an 1893 collision,or the ironclad HMS Camperdown,which would sink it.
Ships built with sailing rigs were still in the active fleet,
some with wooden hulls were still performing reserve and training functions, and it was years before HMS Temeraire would make port under sail alone
for the final time.

The Admirals of the Fleet included Sir George Sartorius(born
1790,a commander in 1812 and post-captain in 1814),and
Sir Provo Wallis (born 1791,a lieutenant 1808,and commander 1813);
Sartorius had been a midshipman on HMS Tonnant at Trafalgar in 1805
nearly 9 years before Francis Scott Key's visit to that ship led to
"The Star-Spangled Banner" being written,witnessed the surrender of Napoleon,commanded a fleet in the Portugese Civil War of the 1830s,
and risen through the admiral ranks starting in 1849;Wallis had
taken temporary command of HMS Shannon when it captured USS
Chesapeake in 1813.
The 1st Baron Strathnairn(born 1801) was a Field Marshal,
while Sir Richard Dacres(born 1799),the 3rd Earl of Lucan
(born 1800,a lieutenant colonel 1826),who had ordered the
Charge of the Light Brigade,and three men born in 1804
had yet to receive promotion to that rank.

The eldest Dukes included the 6th of Northumberland(b. 1810, great-great-great-grandfather of the 11th and the current 12th Duke)
the 2nd of Wellington(b. 1807,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather
of the present 9th Duke born 1945,an MP 1829 and army major 1830),
the 7th of Devonshire(b. 1808,great-great-great-grandfather of the
present 12th duke born 1944,he had first become an MP in 1829 and
a peer in 1834),the 5th of Buccleuch/7th of Queensberry(b. 1806,
succeeded in 1819,a Knight of the Garter since 1835,great-great-great- grandfather of the present 12th Duke),the 12th of Somerset(b. 1804,
second cousin of the great-great-great-grandfather of the current 19th Duke), and the 4th (and last) of Cleveland (born 1803).
The 1st Duke of Abercorn,so created in 1868,had succeeded to the
Marquessate thereof in 1818 and been a Knight of the Garter since 1844.
The 3rd Marquess of Donegall (born 1797) was alive and would be
succeeded by a younger brother born in 1799(the present peer is the great-great-great-grandson of their first cousin).
The 7th Earl of Shaftesbury(born 1801,an MP from 1826,great- great-great-grandfather of the present peer and his predecessor),the
3rd Earl Grey (born 1802,also an MP from 1826,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer and of his predecessor),and the 2nd Earl of Harrowby(born 1798,an MP from 1819,
a Lord of the Admiralty in 1827,great-great-great-grandfather of the septuagenarian present Earl) were among the Knights of the Garter.
The 1st Earl of Lovelace (born 1805) had over a decade to live,and
had been a Lord-Lieutenant since 1840.
The 3rd and 4th Earl of Mansfield and Mansfield(born 1806 and with
over 15 years to live) had been a Knight of the Thistle since 1843,
and had been an MP from 1830 to 1840,with a spell in Government 1834-5.
The 4th Earl of Arran(born 1801) had been a Knight of
St. Patrick since 1841 and been charge d'affaires in
Buenos Aires 1832-4.
Also among the Earls were the 6th Earl of Essex(born 1803),
and the 6th of Albemarle,born 1799,a veteran of the Battle of Waterloo.
The eldest of Earls were the 2nd Earl Mount Cashell,
born 1792,the 6th Earl of Buckinghamshire,
born 1793,and the 2nd of Stradbroke,born 1794,
commissioned in the Army in 1810,a Lieutenant 1814,
who missed Waterloo on account of a wound.
The Earl of Sandwich had held his title since 1818.
The 9th Viscount of Arbuthnott(born 1806) was alive,the
current peer is the 17th.
The 1st Viscount Portman (born 1799,first elected MP in 1823) was
alive,the present peer is the 10th.
The oldest Viscount,however,was the 1st and last of Eversley,born in 1794
and Speaker of the House of Commons 1839-57.
The senior Viscount was the 2nd Frankfort de Montmorency,
who had inherited his title in 1822.
Barons included the 3rd Baron Gardner,who had inherited that title
in 1815,the 2nd Baron Mostyn(born 1795,great-great-great-great-
grandfather of the present peer),the 2nd Baron Brougham and Vaux
(born 1795,great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer),
the 16th Baron Saye and Sele(born 1799,great-great-grandfather of
the 100-year-old present peer),the 1st Baron Cottesloe (born 1798,great-great-great-grandfather of the present peer),
and the 1st Lord Ebury,born 1801 and a Privy Counsellor since 1830;
the oldest peerage holder was Lady Sempill,born 1790 or possibly 1789.
The Lord Bishop of Chichester was Richard Durnford,born 1802,
and that of Llandaff Alfred Ollivant,born 1798.
Sir Moses Montefiore,born 1784,was the oldest baronet.
Sir Thomas Sabine Pasley had held his baronetcy since 1808.

Cardinal Manning (born 1808) was Catholic Archbishop of Westminster,
but Cardinal Newman(born 1801) was the oldest British cardinal.

Abroad Alexander III had been Emperor and Tsar-Autocrat of all
the Russias for less than a year,and Leo XIII(born 1810) had
more than five-sixths of his time as Pope ahead of him.
Slavery was still legal in Brazil and would be for years.
Wilhelm I,grandfather of the World War I Kaiser,born in 1797,
still ruled Germany.

Consider all the changes,natural and manmade,visited upon the world
in all the time since.

And now consider this...Queen Elizabeth II has been on the Throne
for MOST of that time since then.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.talk.royalty, alt.politics.british, alt.society.monarchy

In article <srab1d$7e6$1@reader1.panix.com>,
Louis Epstein <le@top.put.com> wrote:

As forecast last time,the Queen has now indeed reigned
for most of the time since Neville Chamberlain entered
his teens,and since less than a year after the assassination
of Alexander II of Russia.

This is the first update of this year,and the 70th
anniversary of the reign is fast approaching...other
milestones to expect this year are

HM's 96th birthday in April

The present reign outlasting the COMBINED reigns of
William IV and Victoria (June 26 1830 to January 22 1901)

The present reign outlasting the entire lifetime of George V
(June 3 1865 to January 20 1936)(It has already outlasted
the lifespans of George IV and Edward VII and others)

The Duke of Cambridge reaching the age at which George VI
became Heir Presumptive(December 14 1895 to January 20 1936)

Here is the present state of the file.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Consider,if you would,the United Kingdom and Empire
as they were on March 12th 1882.

Queen Victoria,over 2 months from 63,was on the throne;
she was over five years from her Golden Jubilee,her Diamond Jubilee
would be ten years after that.The future Edward VII was under
5 months past 40 (the current Prince of Wales is over 7 weeks past 73),
the future George V was over 2 months from 17(the Duke of Cambridge is
over 6 months past 39--George V became Heir Apparent at 35 when all
his children were younger than Princess Charlotte is now),not yet
Duke of York,and not yet heir apparent to his father;nor was his elder >brother (who had over nine and a half years to live) yet 19.
The future Archbishop of Canterbury who would crown King Edward was
Bishop of Exeter.The oldest British royal was George III's daughter-in-law >the Duchess of Cambridge (Augusta of Hesse-Cassel),born 1797 and with
over seven years to live.

The Church of England dioceses of Birmingham,Blackburn,Bristol, >Coventry,Chelmsford,Derby,Guildford,Leicester,Newcastle,Portsmouth,
St. Edmundsbury and Ipswich,Sheffield,and Southwark did not yet
exist...nor did those of Bradford and Wakefield,now abolished,
or that of Southwell,from which Derby would one day be severed.That of >Liverpool was under 2 years old.

Lloyd George,Macdonald,and Baldwin were teenagers,
Chamberlain was twelve and Churchill was seven years old,
and no later Prime Minister(including Attlee)
had yet been born (nor had any person in the world alive after 1999).
Keir Hardie,who years later would found the original Scottish
Labour Party,then the Independent Labour Party,and then the Labour
Party proper,was aged twenty-five and would not be an MP for over
a decade.

William Gladstone (born 1809) was the only living person who had been
Prime Minister (years younger than his predecessors).His government
had not yet sought passage of the Representation of the People Act 1884 >(which would for the first time enable most men to vote),which would
be followed by the Redistribution of Seats Act 1885 (which would establish >the norm of single-member constituencies) which would first come into
effect with the following election.
Women would not vote in a General Election for over thirty-six years. >Christopher Rice Mansel Talbot(born 1803),Father of the House of Commons,
had been a member since 1830...before any of the Reform Bills.(Charles
James Mahon,born 1800,had been a member discontinuously since then).

Lord Coleridge (born 1820) was Lord Chief Justice,and had been
the last Chief Justice of the Common Pleas (a position abolished
by the Judicature Act of 1873).The 1st Lord Esher(born 1815 or 1817,
sources disagree) had yet to become Master of the Rolls.The Royal
Courts of Justice building was under construction and today's Old
Bailey would not open for decades.

Many of the Colonies had yet to be colonized,Hong Kong was over a
decade from adding the New Territories.

Battleships that would be scrapped as obsolete in the reign of Edward VII
had yet to be laid down,nor had either HMS Victoria,which would sink in
an 1893 collision,or the ironclad HMS Camperdown,which would sink it.
Ships built with sailing rigs were still in the active fleet,
some with wooden hulls were still performing reserve and training functions, >and it was years before HMS Temeraire would make port under sail alone
for the final time.

The Admirals of the Fleet included Sir George Sartorius(born
1790,a commander in 1812 and post-captain in 1814),and
Sir Provo Wallis (born 1791,a lieutenant 1808,and commander 1813);
Sartorius had been a midshipman on HMS Tonnant at Trafalgar in 1805
nearly 9 years before Francis Scott Key's visit to that ship led to
"The Star-Spangled Banner" being written,witnessed the surrender of >Napoleon,commanded a fleet in the Portugese Civil War of the 1830s,
and risen through the admiral ranks starting in 1849;Wallis had
taken temporary command of HMS Shannon when it captured USS
Chesapeake in 1813.
The 1st Baron Strathnairn(born 1801) was a Field Marshal,
while Sir Richard Dacres(born 1799),the 3rd Earl of Lucan
(born 1800,a lieutenant colonel 1826),who had ordered the
Charge of the Light Brigade,and three men born in 1804
had yet to receive promotion to that rank.

The eldest Dukes included the 6th of Northumberland(b. 1810, >great-great-great-grandfather of the 11th and the current 12th Duke)
the 2nd of Wellington(b. 1807,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather
of the present 9th Duke born 1945,an MP 1829 and army major 1830),
the 7th of Devonshire(b. 1808,great-great-great-grandfather of the
present 12th duke born 1944,he had first become an MP in 1829 and
a peer in 1834),the 5th of Buccleuch/7th of Queensberry(b. 1806,
succeeded in 1819,a Knight of the Garter since 1835,great-great-great- >grandfather of the present 12th Duke),the 12th of Somerset(b. 1804,
second cousin of the great-great-great-grandfather of the current 19th Duke), >and the 4th (and last) of Cleveland (born 1803).
The 1st Duke of Abercorn,so created in 1868,had succeeded to the
Marquessate thereof in 1818 and been a Knight of the Garter since 1844.
The 3rd Marquess of Donegall (born 1797) was alive and would be
succeeded by a younger brother born in 1799(the present peer is the >great-great-great-grandson of their first cousin).
The 7th Earl of Shaftesbury(born 1801,an MP from 1826,great- >great-great-grandfather of the present peer and his predecessor),the
3rd Earl Grey (born 1802,also an MP from 1826,elder brother of the >great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer and of his >predecessor),and the 2nd Earl of Harrowby(born 1798,an MP from 1819,
a Lord of the Admiralty in 1827,great-great-great-grandfather of the >septuagenarian present Earl) were among the Knights of the Garter.
The 1st Earl of Lovelace (born 1805) had over a decade to live,and
had been a Lord-Lieutenant since 1840.
The 3rd and 4th Earl of Mansfield and Mansfield(born 1806 and with
over 15 years to live) had been a Knight of the Thistle since 1843,
and had been an MP from 1830 to 1840,with a spell in Government 1834-5.
The 4th Earl of Arran(born 1801) had been a Knight of
St. Patrick since 1841 and been charge d'affaires in
Buenos Aires 1832-4.
Also among the Earls were the 6th Earl of Essex(born 1803),
and the 6th of Albemarle,born 1799,a veteran of the Battle of Waterloo.
The eldest of Earls were the 2nd Earl Mount Cashell,
born 1792,the 6th Earl of Buckinghamshire,
born 1793,and the 2nd of Stradbroke,born 1794,
commissioned in the Army in 1810,a Lieutenant 1814,
who missed Waterloo on account of a wound.
The Earl of Sandwich had held his title since 1818.
The 9th Viscount of Arbuthnott(born 1806) was alive,the
current peer is the 17th.
The 1st Viscount Portman (born 1799,first elected MP in 1823) was
alive,the present peer is the 10th.
The oldest Viscount,however,was the 1st and last of Eversley,born in 1794
and Speaker of the House of Commons 1839-57.
The senior Viscount was the 2nd Frankfort de Montmorency,
who had inherited his title in 1822.
Barons included the 3rd Baron Gardner,who had inherited that title
in 1815,the 2nd Baron Mostyn(born 1795,great-great-great-great-
grandfather of the present peer),the 2nd Baron Brougham and Vaux
(born 1795,great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer),
the 16th Baron Saye and Sele(born 1799,great-great-grandfather of
the 100-year-old present peer),the 1st Baron Cottesloe (born >1798,great-great-great-grandfather of the present peer),
and the 1st Lord Ebury,born 1801 and a Privy Counsellor since 1830;
the oldest peerage holder was Lady Sempill,born 1790 or possibly 1789.
The Lord Bishop of Chichester was Richard Durnford,born 1802,
and that of Llandaff Alfred Ollivant,born 1798.
Sir Moses Montefiore,born 1784,was the oldest baronet.
Sir Thomas Sabine Pasley had held his baronetcy since 1808.

Cardinal Manning (born 1808) was Catholic Archbishop of Westminster,
but Cardinal Newman(born 1801) was the oldest British cardinal.

Abroad Alexander III had been Emperor and Tsar-Autocrat of all
the Russias for less than a year,and Leo XIII(born 1810) had
more than five-sixths of his time as Pope ahead of him.
Slavery was still legal in Brazil and would be for years.
Wilhelm I,grandfather of the World War I Kaiser,born in 1797,
still ruled Germany.

Consider all the changes,natural and manmade,visited upon the world
in all the time since.

And now consider this...Queen Elizabeth II has been on the Throne
for MOST of that time since then.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

I hope the Republican Caribbean burns in Hell!
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b Birthdate 29 Jan 1969 Redhill Surrey England Beware https://mindspring.com

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.talk.royalty, alt.politics.british, alt.society.monarchy

Probably last revision before the jubilee date next month;
note that when the year 2092 rolls around,the Queen will
STILL have been queen for most of the time since February
6th 1952!

Now in the reference file both Edward VII and the Duke of
Cambridge are reckoned with reference to turning 40...in
my first file in 2010 the Duke's age was compared to
George V's as the reference date was in 1894.


-=-=-=-=-
Consider,if you would,the United Kingdom and Empire
as they were on February 24th 1882.

Queen Victoria,3 months from 63,was on the throne;
she was over five years from her Golden Jubilee,her Diamond Jubilee
would be ten years after that.The future Edward VII was under
4 months past 40 (the current Prince of Wales is over 2 months past 73),
the future George V was over 3 months from 17(the Duke of Cambridge is
only 5 months from 40--George V became Heir Apparent at 35 when all
his children were younger than Princess Charlotte is now),not yet
Duke of York,and not yet heir apparent to his father;nor was his elder
brother (who had over nine and a half years to live) yet 19.
The future Archbishop of Canterbury who would crown King Edward was
Bishop of Exeter.The oldest British royal was George III's daughter-in-law
the Duchess of Cambridge (Augusta of Hesse-Cassel),born 1797 and with
over seven years to live.

The Church of England dioceses of Birmingham,Blackburn,Bristol, Coventry,Chelmsford,Derby,Guildford,Leicester,Newcastle,Portsmouth,
St. Edmundsbury and Ipswich,Sheffield,and Southwark did not yet
exist...nor did those of Bradford and Wakefield,now abolished,
or that of Southwell,from which Derby would one day be severed.That of Liverpool was under 2 years old.

Lloyd George,Macdonald,and Baldwin were teenagers,
Chamberlain was twelve and Churchill was seven years old,
and no later Prime Minister(including Attlee)
had yet been born (nor had any person in the world alive after 1999).
Keir Hardie,who years later would found the original Scottish
Labour Party,then the Independent Labour Party,and then the Labour
Party proper,was aged twenty-five and would not be an MP for over
a decade.

William Gladstone (born 1809) was the only living person who had been
Prime Minister (years younger than his predecessors).His government
had not yet sought passage of the Representation of the People Act 1884
(which would for the first time enable most men to vote),which would
be followed by the Redistribution of Seats Act 1885 (which would establish
the norm of single-member constituencies) which would first come into
effect with the following election.
Women would not vote in a General Election for over thirty-six years. Christopher Rice Mansel Talbot(born 1803),Father of the House of Commons,
had been a member since 1830...before any of the Reform Bills.(Charles
James Mahon,born 1800,had been a member discontinuously since then).

Lord Coleridge (born 1820) was Lord Chief Justice,and had been
the last Chief Justice of the Common Pleas (a position abolished
by the Judicature Act of 1873).The 1st Lord Esher(born 1815 or 1817,
sources disagree) had yet to become Master of the Rolls.The Royal
Courts of Justice building was under construction and today's Old
Bailey would not open for decades.

Many of the Colonies had yet to be colonized,Hong Kong was over a
decade from adding the New Territories.

Battleships that would be scrapped as obsolete in the reign of Edward VII
had yet to be laid down,nor had either HMS Victoria,which would sink in
an 1893 collision,or the ironclad HMS Camperdown,which would sink it.
Ships built with sailing rigs were still in the active fleet,
some with wooden hulls were still performing reserve and training functions, and it was years before HMS Temeraire would make port under sail alone
for the final time.

The Admirals of the Fleet included Sir George Sartorius(born
1790,a commander in 1812 and post-captain in 1814),and
Sir Provo Wallis (born 1791,a lieutenant 1808,and commander 1813);
Sartorius had been a midshipman on HMS Tonnant at Trafalgar in 1805
nearly 9 years before Francis Scott Key's visit to that ship led to
"The Star-Spangled Banner" being written,witnessed the surrender of Napoleon,commanded a fleet in the Portugese Civil War of the 1830s,
and risen through the admiral ranks starting in 1849;Wallis had
taken temporary command of HMS Shannon when it captured USS
Chesapeake in 1813.
The 1st Baron Strathnairn(born 1801) was a Field Marshal,
while Sir Richard Dacres(born 1799),the 3rd Earl of Lucan
(born 1800,a lieutenant colonel 1826),who had ordered the
Charge of the Light Brigade,and three men born in 1804
had yet to receive promotion to that rank.

The eldest Dukes included the 6th of Northumberland(b. 1810, great-great-great-grandfather of the 11th and the current 12th Duke)
the 2nd of Wellington(b. 1807,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather
of the present 9th Duke born 1945,an MP 1829 and army major 1830),
the 7th of Devonshire(b. 1808,great-great-great-grandfather of the
present 12th duke born 1944,he had first become an MP in 1829 and
a peer in 1834),the 5th of Buccleuch/7th of Queensberry(b. 1806,
succeeded in 1819,a Knight of the Garter since 1835,great-great-great- grandfather of the present 12th Duke),the 12th of Somerset(b. 1804,
second cousin of the great-great-great-grandfather of the current 19th Duke), and the 4th (and last) of Cleveland (born 1803).
The 1st Duke of Abercorn,so created in 1868,had succeeded to the
Marquessate thereof in 1818 and been a Knight of the Garter since 1844.
The 3rd Marquess of Donegall (born 1797) was alive and would be
succeeded by a younger brother born in 1799(the present peer is the great-great-great-grandson of their first cousin).
The 7th Earl of Shaftesbury(born 1801,an MP from 1826,great- great-great-grandfather of the present peer and his predecessor),the
3rd Earl Grey (born 1802,also an MP from 1826,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer and of his predecessor),and the 2nd Earl of Harrowby(born 1798,an MP from 1819,
a Lord of the Admiralty in 1827,great-great-great-grandfather of the septuagenarian present Earl) were among the Knights of the Garter.
The 1st Earl of Lovelace (born 1805) had over a decade to live,and
had been a Lord-Lieutenant since 1840.
The 3rd and 4th Earl of Mansfield and Mansfield(born 1806 and with
over 15 years to live) had been a Knight of the Thistle since 1843,
and had been an MP from 1830 to 1840,with a spell in Government 1834-5.
The 4th Earl of Arran(born 1801) had been a Knight of
St. Patrick since 1841 and been charge d'affaires in
Buenos Aires 1832-4.
Also among the Earls were the 6th Earl of Essex(born 1803),
and the 6th of Albemarle,born 1799,a veteran of the Battle of Waterloo.
The eldest of Earls were the 2nd Earl Mount Cashell,
born 1792,the 6th Earl of Buckinghamshire,
born 1793,and the 2nd of Stradbroke,born 1794,
commissioned in the Army in 1810,a Lieutenant 1814,
who missed Waterloo on account of a wound.
The Earl of Sandwich had held his title since 1818.
The 9th Viscount of Arbuthnott(born 1806) was alive,the
current peer is the 17th.
The 1st Viscount Portman (born 1799,first elected MP in 1823) was
alive,the present peer is the 10th.
The oldest Viscount,however,was the 1st and last of Eversley,born in 1794
and Speaker of the House of Commons 1839-57.
The senior Viscount was the 2nd Frankfort de Montmorency,
who had inherited his title in 1822.
Barons included the 3rd Baron Gardner,who had inherited that title
in 1815,the 2nd Baron Mostyn(born 1795,great-great-great-great-
grandfather of the present peer),the 2nd Baron Brougham and Vaux
(born 1795,great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer),
the 16th Baron Saye and Sele(born 1799,great-great-grandfather of
the 100-year-old present peer),the 1st Baron Cottesloe (born 1798,great-great-great-grandfather of the present peer),
and the 1st Lord Ebury,born 1801 and a Privy Counsellor since 1830;
the oldest peerage holder was Lady Sempill,born 1790 or possibly 1789.
The Lord Bishop of Chichester was Richard Durnford,born 1802,
and that of Llandaff Alfred Ollivant,born 1798.
Sir Moses Montefiore,born 1784,was the oldest baronet.
Sir Thomas Sabine Pasley had held his baronetcy since 1808.

Cardinal Manning (born 1808) was Catholic Archbishop of Westminster,
but Cardinal Newman(born 1801) was the oldest British cardinal.

Abroad Alexander III had been Emperor and Tsar-Autocrat of all
the Russias for less than a year,and Leo XIII(born 1810) had
more than five-sixths of his time as Pope ahead of him.
Slavery was still legal in Brazil and would be for years.
Wilhelm I,grandfather of the World War I Kaiser,born in 1797,
still ruled Germany.

Consider all the changes,natural and manmade,visited upon the world
in all the time since.

And now consider this...Queen Elizabeth II has been on the Throne
for MOST of that time since then.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.talk.royalty, alt.politics.british, alt.society.monarchy

My on-Jubilee revision lacked the customary cross-post
because I was answering a reply targeted to a.t.r (the
Saxe-Meiningen contribution is reflected) so here is a
revision for the first post-Jubilee mini-milestone:
reigning for most of the time since it was 4 months
before George V's seventeenth birthday.(The reference
date is also approaching the eighteenth birthday of,
and ten years before the death of,the Duke of Clarence).

And of course,seventy years hence,the Queen will still
have reigned for most of the time since February 6th
1952.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Consider,if you would,the United Kingdom and Empire
as they were on February 3rd 1882.

Queen Victoria,over 3 months from 63,was on the throne;
she was over five years from her Golden Jubilee,her Diamond Jubilee
would be ten years after that.The future Edward VII was under 3
months past 40 (the current Prince of Wales is over 2 months past 73),
the future George V was 4 months from 17(the Duke of Cambridge is
under 5 months from 40--George V became Heir Apparent at 35 when all
his children were younger than Princess Charlotte is now),not yet
Duke of York,and not yet heir apparent to his father;nor was his elder
brother (who had over nine and a half years to live) yet 19.
The future Archbishop of Canterbury who would crown King Edward was
Bishop of Exeter.The oldest British royal was George III's daughter-in-law
the Duchess of Cambridge (Augusta of Hesse-Cassel),born 1797 and with
over seven years to live.

The Church of England dioceses of Birmingham,Blackburn,Bristol, Coventry,Chelmsford,Derby,Guildford,Leicester,Newcastle,Portsmouth,
St. Edmundsbury and Ipswich,Sheffield,and Southwark did not yet
exist...nor did those of Bradford and Wakefield,now abolished,
or that of Southwell,from which Derby would one day be severed.That of Liverpool was under 2 years old.

Lloyd George,Macdonald,and Baldwin were teenagers,
Chamberlain was twelve and Churchill was seven years old,
and no later Prime Minister(including Attlee)
had yet been born (nor had any person in the world alive after 1999).
Keir Hardie,who years later would found the original Scottish
Labour Party,then the Independent Labour Party,and then the Labour
Party proper,was aged twenty-five and would not be an MP for over
a decade.

William Gladstone (born 1809) was the only living person who had been
Prime Minister (years younger than his predecessors).His government
had not yet sought passage of the Representation of the People Act 1884
(which would for the first time enable most men to vote),which would
be followed by the Redistribution of Seats Act 1885 (which would establish
the norm of single-member constituencies) which would first come into
effect with the following election.
Women would not vote in a General Election for over thirty-six years. Christopher Rice Mansel Talbot(born 1803),Father of the House of Commons,
had been a member since 1830...before any of the Reform Bills.(Charles
James Mahon,born 1800,had been a member discontinuously since then).

Lord Coleridge (born 1820) was Lord Chief Justice,and had been
the last Chief Justice of the Common Pleas (a position abolished
by the Judicature Act of 1873).The 1st Lord Esher(born 1815 or 1817,
sources disagree) had yet to become Master of the Rolls.The Royal
Courts of Justice building was under construction and today's Old
Bailey would not open for decades.

Many of the Colonies had yet to be colonized,Hong Kong was over a
decade from adding the New Territories.

Battleships that would be scrapped as obsolete in the reign of Edward VII
had yet to be laid down,nor had either HMS Victoria,which would sink in
an 1893 collision,or the ironclad HMS Camperdown,which would sink it.
Ships built with sailing rigs were still in the active fleet,
some with wooden hulls were still performing reserve and training functions, and it was years before HMS Temeraire would make port under sail alone
for the final time.

The Admirals of the Fleet included Sir George Sartorius(born
1790,a commander in 1812 and post-captain in 1814),and
Sir Provo Wallis (born 1791,a lieutenant 1808,and commander 1813);
Sartorius had been a midshipman on HMS Tonnant at Trafalgar in 1805
nearly 9 years before Francis Scott Key's visit to that ship led to
"The Star-Spangled Banner" being written,witnessed the surrender of Napoleon,commanded a fleet in the Portugese Civil War of the 1830s,
and risen through the admiral ranks starting in 1849;Wallis had
taken temporary command of HMS Shannon when it captured USS
Chesapeake in 1813.
The 1st Baron Strathnairn(born 1801) was a Field Marshal,
while Sir Richard Dacres(born 1799),the 3rd Earl of Lucan
(born 1800,a lieutenant colonel 1826),who had ordered the
Charge of the Light Brigade,and three men born in 1804
had yet to receive promotion to that rank.

The eldest Dukes included the 6th of Northumberland(b. 1810, great-great-great-grandfather of the 11th and the current 12th Duke)
the 2nd of Wellington(b. 1807,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather
of the present 9th Duke born 1945,an MP 1829 and army major 1830),
the 7th of Devonshire(b. 1808,great-great-great-grandfather of the
present 12th duke born 1944,he had first become an MP in 1829 and
a peer in 1834),the 5th of Buccleuch/7th of Queensberry(b. 1806,
succeeded in 1819,a Knight of the Garter since 1835,great-great-great- grandfather of the present 12th Duke),the 12th of Somerset(b. 1804,
second cousin of the great-great-great-grandfather of the current 19th Duke), and the 4th (and last) of Cleveland (born 1803).
The 1st Duke of Abercorn,so created in 1868,had succeeded to the
Marquessate thereof in 1818 and been a Knight of the Garter since 1844.
The 3rd Marquess of Donegall (born 1797) was alive and would be
succeeded by a younger brother born in 1799(the present peer is the great-great-great-grandson of their first cousin).
The 7th Earl of Shaftesbury(born 1801,an MP from 1826,great- great-great-grandfather of the present peer and his predecessor),the
3rd Earl Grey (born 1802,also an MP from 1826,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer and of his predecessor),and the 2nd Earl of Harrowby(born 1798,an MP from 1819,
a Lord of the Admiralty in 1827,great-great-great-grandfather of the septuagenarian present Earl) were among the Knights of the Garter.
The 1st Earl of Lovelace (born 1805) had over a decade to live,and
had been a Lord-Lieutenant since 1840.
The 3rd and 4th Earl of Mansfield and Mansfield(born 1806 and with
over 15 years to live) had been a Knight of the Thistle since 1843,
and had been an MP from 1830 to 1840,with a spell in Government 1834-5.
The 4th Earl of Arran(born 1801) had been a Knight of
St. Patrick since 1841 and been charge d'affaires in
Buenos Aires 1832-4.
Also among the Earls were the 6th Earl of Essex(born 1803),
and the 6th of Albemarle,born 1799,a veteran of the Battle of Waterloo.
The eldest of Earls were the 2nd Earl Mount Cashell,
born 1792,the 6th Earl of Buckinghamshire,
born 1793,and the 2nd of Stradbroke,born 1794,
commissioned in the Army in 1810,a Lieutenant 1814,
who missed Waterloo on account of a wound.
The Earl of Sandwich had held his title since 1818.
The 9th Viscount of Arbuthnott(born 1806) was alive,the
current peer is the 17th.
The 1st Viscount Portman (born 1799,first elected MP in 1823) was
alive,the present peer is the 10th.
The oldest Viscount,however,was the 1st and last of Eversley,born in 1794
and Speaker of the House of Commons 1839-57.
The senior Viscount was the 2nd Frankfort de Montmorency,
who had inherited his title in 1822.
Barons included the 3rd Baron Gardner,who had inherited that title
in 1815,the 2nd Baron Mostyn(born 1795,great-great-great-great-
grandfather of the present peer),the 2nd Baron Brougham and Vaux
(born 1795,great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer),
the 16th Baron Saye and Sele(born 1799,great-great-grandfather of
the 100-year-old present peer),the 1st Baron Cottesloe (born 1798,great-great-great-grandfather of the present peer),
and the 1st Lord Ebury,born 1801 and a Privy Counsellor since 1830;
the oldest peerage holder was Lady Sempill,born 1790 or possibly 1789.
The Lord Bishop of Chichester was Richard Durnford,born 1802,
and that of Llandaff Alfred Ollivant,born 1798.
Sir Moses Montefiore,born 1784,was the oldest baronet.
Sir Thomas Sabine Pasley had held his baronetcy since 1808.

Cardinal Manning (born 1808) was Catholic Archbishop of Westminster,
but Cardinal Newman(born 1801) was the oldest British cardinal.

Abroad Alexander III had been Emperor and Tsar-Autocrat of all
the Russias for less than a year,and Leo XIII(born 1810) had
more than five-sixths of his time as Pope ahead of him.
Slavery was still legal in Brazil and would be for years.
Wilhelm I,grandfather of the World War I Kaiser,born in 1797,
still ruled Germany.Bernhard II,though abdicated from Saxe-
Meiningen,was still alive and had become Duke during the
Holy Roman Empire.

Consider all the changes,natural and manmade,visited upon the world
in all the time since.

And now consider this...Queen Elizabeth II has been on the Throne
for MOST of that time since then.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.talk.royalty, alt.politics.british, alt.society.monarchy

The reference date has now indeed moved back before
the 18th birthday of Albert Victor Duke of Clarence.

And even at the end of August 2004 the present reign
was still closer to its middle than its eventual end.
(What odds might one have gotten on this at the time?)

-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Consider,if you would,the United Kingdom and Empire
as they were on January 7th 1882.

Queen Victoria,over 4 months from 63,was on the throne;
she was over five years from her Golden Jubilee,her Diamond Jubilee
would be ten years after that.The future Edward VII was under 2
months past 40 (the current Prince of Wales is over 3 months past 73),
the future George V was over 4 months from 17(the Duke of Cambridge is
under 4 months from 40--George V became Heir Apparent at 35 when all
his children were younger than Princess Charlotte is now),not yet
Duke of York,and not yet heir apparent to his father;nor was his elder
brother (who had over a decade to live) yet 18.
The future Archbishop of Canterbury who would crown King Edward was
Bishop of Exeter.The oldest British royal was George III's daughter-in-law
the Duchess of Cambridge (Augusta of Hesse-Cassel),born 1797 and with
over seven years to live.

The Church of England dioceses of Birmingham,Blackburn,Bristol, Coventry,Chelmsford,Derby,Guildford,Leicester,Newcastle,Portsmouth,
St. Edmundsbury and Ipswich,Sheffield,and Southwark did not yet
exist...nor did those of Bradford and Wakefield,now abolished,
or that of Southwell,from which Derby would one day be severed.That of Liverpool was under 2 years old.

Lloyd George,Macdonald,and Baldwin were teenagers,
Chamberlain was twelve and Churchill was seven years old,
and no later Prime Minister(including Attlee)
had yet been born (nor had any person in the world alive after 1999).
Keir Hardie,who years later would found the original Scottish
Labour Party,then the Independent Labour Party,and then the Labour
Party proper,was aged twenty-five and would not be an MP for over
a decade.

William Gladstone (born 1809) was the only living person who had been
Prime Minister (years younger than his predecessors).His government
had not yet sought passage of the Representation of the People Act 1884
(which would for the first time enable most men to vote),which would
be followed by the Redistribution of Seats Act 1885 (which would establish
the norm of single-member constituencies) which would first come into
effect with the following election.
Women would not vote in a General Election for over thirty-six years. Christopher Rice Mansel Talbot(born 1803),Father of the House of Commons,
had been a member since 1830...before any of the Reform Bills.(Charles
James Mahon,born 1800,had been a member discontinuously since then).

Lord Coleridge (born 1820) was Lord Chief Justice,and had been
the last Chief Justice of the Common Pleas (a position abolished
by the Judicature Act of 1873).The 1st Lord Esher(born 1815 or 1817,
sources disagree) had yet to become Master of the Rolls.The Royal
Courts of Justice building was under construction and today's Old
Bailey would not open for decades.

Many of the Colonies had yet to be colonized,Hong Kong was over a
decade from adding the New Territories.

Battleships that would be scrapped as obsolete in the reign of Edward VII
had yet to be laid down,nor had either HMS Victoria,which would sink in
an 1893 collision,or the ironclad HMS Camperdown,which would sink it.
Ships built with sailing rigs were still in the active fleet,
some with wooden hulls were still performing reserve and training functions, and it was years before HMS Temeraire would make port under sail alone
for the final time.

The Admirals of the Fleet included Sir George Sartorius(born
1790,a commander in 1812 and post-captain in 1814),and
Sir Provo Wallis (born 1791,a lieutenant 1808,and commander 1813);
Sartorius had been a midshipman on HMS Tonnant at Trafalgar in 1805
nearly 9 years before Francis Scott Key's visit to that ship led to
"The Star-Spangled Banner" being written,witnessed the surrender of Napoleon,commanded a fleet in the Portugese Civil War of the 1830s,
and risen through the admiral ranks starting in 1849;Wallis had
taken temporary command of HMS Shannon when it captured USS
Chesapeake in 1813.
The 1st Baron Strathnairn(born 1801) was a Field Marshal,
while Sir Richard Dacres(born 1799),the 3rd Earl of Lucan
(born 1800,a lieutenant colonel 1826),who had ordered the
Charge of the Light Brigade,and three men born in 1804
had yet to receive promotion to that rank.

The eldest Dukes included the 6th of Northumberland(b. 1810, great-great-great-grandfather of the 11th and the current 12th Duke)
the 2nd of Wellington(b. 1807,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather
of the present 9th Duke born 1945,an MP 1829 and army major 1830),
the 7th of Devonshire(b. 1808,great-great-great-grandfather of the
present 12th duke born 1944,he had first become an MP in 1829 and
a peer in 1834),the 5th of Buccleuch/7th of Queensberry(b. 1806,
succeeded in 1819,a Knight of the Garter since 1835,great-great-great- grandfather of the present 12th Duke),the 12th of Somerset(b. 1804,
second cousin of the great-great-great-grandfather of the current 19th Duke), and the 4th (and last) of Cleveland (born 1803).
The 1st Duke of Abercorn,so created in 1868,had succeeded to the
Marquessate thereof in 1818 and been a Knight of the Garter since 1844.
The 3rd Marquess of Donegall (born 1797) was alive and would be
succeeded by a younger brother born in 1799(the present peer is the great-great-great-grandson of their first cousin).
The 7th Earl of Shaftesbury(born 1801,an MP from 1826,great- great-great-grandfather of the present peer and his predecessor),the
3rd Earl Grey (born 1802,also an MP from 1826,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer and of his predecessor),and the 2nd Earl of Harrowby(born 1798,an MP from 1819,
a Lord of the Admiralty in 1827,great-great-great-grandfather of the septuagenarian present Earl) were among the Knights of the Garter.
The 1st Earl of Lovelace (born 1805) had over a decade to live,and
had been a Lord-Lieutenant since 1840.
The 3rd and 4th Earl of Mansfield and Mansfield(born 1806 and with
over 15 years to live) had been a Knight of the Thistle since 1843,
and had been an MP from 1830 to 1840,with a spell in Government 1834-5.
The 4th Earl of Arran(born 1801) had been a Knight of
St. Patrick since 1841 and been charge d'affaires in
Buenos Aires 1832-4.
Also among the Earls were the 6th Earl of Essex(born 1803),
and the 6th of Albemarle,born 1799,a veteran of the Battle of Waterloo.
The eldest of Earls were the 2nd Earl Mount Cashell,
born 1792,the 6th Earl of Buckinghamshire,
born 1793,and the 2nd of Stradbroke,born 1794,
commissioned in the Army in 1810,a Lieutenant 1814,
who missed Waterloo on account of a wound.
The Earl of Sandwich had held his title since 1818.
The 9th Viscount of Arbuthnott(born 1806) was alive,the
current peer is the 17th.
The 1st Viscount Portman (born 1799,first elected MP in 1823) was
alive,the present peer is the 10th.
The oldest Viscount,however,was the 1st and last of Eversley,born in 1794
and Speaker of the House of Commons 1839-57.
The senior Viscount was the 2nd Frankfort de Montmorency,
who had inherited his title in 1822.
Barons included the 3rd Baron Gardner,who had inherited that title
in 1815,the 2nd Baron Mostyn(born 1795,great-great-great-great-
grandfather of the present peer),the 2nd Baron Brougham and Vaux
(born 1795,great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer),
the 16th Baron Saye and Sele(born 1799,great-great-grandfather of
the 100-year-old present peer),the 1st Baron Cottesloe (born 1798,great-great-great-grandfather of the present peer),
and the 1st Lord Ebury,born 1801 and a Privy Counsellor since 1830;
the oldest peerage holder was Lady Sempill,born 1790 or possibly 1789.
The Lord Bishop of Chichester was Richard Durnford,born 1802,
and that of Llandaff Alfred Ollivant,born 1798.
Sir Moses Montefiore,born 1784,was the oldest baronet.
Sir Thomas Sabine Pasley had held his baronetcy since 1808.

Cardinal Manning (born 1808) was Catholic Archbishop of Westminster,
but Cardinal Newman(born 1801) was the oldest British cardinal.

Abroad Alexander III had been Emperor and Tsar-Autocrat of all
the Russias for less than a year,and Leo XIII(born 1810) had
more than five-sixths of his time as Pope ahead of him.
Slavery was still legal in Brazil and would be for years.
Wilhelm I,grandfather of the World War I Kaiser,born in 1797,
still ruled Germany.Bernhard II,though abdicated from Saxe-
Meiningen,was still alive and had become Duke during the
Holy Roman Empire.

Consider all the changes,natural and manmade,visited upon the world
in all the time since.

And now consider this...Queen Elizabeth II has been on the Throne
for MOST of that time since then.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.talk.royalty, alt.politics.british, alt.society.monarchy

Another "out of bounds" revision to catch an error
(I had omitted Lord Saye and Sele's 101st birthday
months ago...and he is now the oldest living peer
with the death of Viscount Falmouth(1919-2022) on
March 7th).
The only other remaining hereditary peers older than
the Queen (listed in order of birth)
are the Earl of Elgin & Kincardine,
Baron Monk Bretton(lone surviving peer of George V's reign),
Baron Walsingham,Baron Wakehurst,the Marquess of
Ailesbury,and Baron Gainford (born the day before
Her Majesty).

With the next revision,the reference date will move
back into 1881 (the year Disraeli died).

-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Consider,if you would,the United Kingdom and Empire
as they were on January 3rd 1882.

Queen Victoria,over 4 months from 63,was on the throne;
she was over five years from her Golden Jubilee,her Diamond Jubilee
would be ten years after that.The future Edward VII was only 8
weeks past 40 (the current Prince of Wales is over 4 months past 73),
the future George V was 5 months from 17(the Duke of Cambridge is
under 4 months from 40--George V became Heir Apparent at 35 when all
his children were younger than Princess Charlotte is now),not yet
Duke of York,and not yet heir apparent to his father;nor was his elder
brother (who had over a decade to live) yet 18.
The future Archbishop of Canterbury who would crown King Edward was
Bishop of Exeter.The oldest British royal was George III's daughter-in-law
the Duchess of Cambridge (Augusta of Hesse-Cassel),born 1797 and with
over seven years to live.

The Church of England dioceses of Birmingham,Blackburn,Bristol, Coventry,Chelmsford,Derby,Guildford,Leicester,Newcastle,Portsmouth,
St. Edmundsbury and Ipswich,Sheffield,and Southwark did not yet
exist...nor did those of Bradford and Wakefield,now abolished,
or that of Southwell,from which Derby would one day be severed.That of Liverpool was under 2 years old.

Lloyd George,Macdonald,and Baldwin were teenagers,
Chamberlain was twelve and Churchill was seven years old,
and no later Prime Minister(including Attlee)
had yet been born (nor had any person in the world alive after 1999).
Keir Hardie,who years later would found the original Scottish
Labour Party,then the Independent Labour Party,and then the Labour
Party proper,was aged twenty-five and would not be an MP for over
a decade.

William Gladstone (born 1809) was the only living person who had been
Prime Minister (years younger than his predecessors).His government
had not yet sought passage of the Representation of the People Act 1884
(which would for the first time enable most men to vote),which would
be followed by the Redistribution of Seats Act 1885 (which would establish
the norm of single-member constituencies) which would first come into
effect with the following election.
Women would not vote in a General Election for over thirty-six years. Christopher Rice Mansel Talbot(born 1803),Father of the House of Commons,
had been a member since 1830...before any of the Reform Bills.(Charles
James Mahon,born 1800,had been a member discontinuously since then).

Lord Coleridge (born 1820) was Lord Chief Justice,and had been
the last Chief Justice of the Common Pleas (a position abolished
by the Judicature Act of 1873).The 1st Lord Esher(born 1815 or 1817,
sources disagree) had yet to become Master of the Rolls.The Royal
Courts of Justice building was under construction and today's Old
Bailey would not open for decades.

Many of the Colonies had yet to be colonized,Hong Kong was over a
decade from adding the New Territories.

Battleships that would be scrapped as obsolete in the reign of Edward VII
had yet to be laid down,nor had either HMS Victoria,which would sink in
an 1893 collision,or the ironclad HMS Camperdown,which would sink it.
Ships built with sailing rigs were still in the active fleet,
some with wooden hulls were still performing reserve and training functions, and it was years before HMS Temeraire would make port under sail alone
for the final time.

The Admirals of the Fleet included Sir George Sartorius(born
1790,a commander in 1812 and post-captain in 1814),and
Sir Provo Wallis (born 1791,a lieutenant 1808,and commander 1813);
Sartorius had been a midshipman on HMS Tonnant at Trafalgar in 1805
nearly 9 years before Francis Scott Key's visit to that ship led to
"The Star-Spangled Banner" being written,witnessed the surrender of Napoleon,commanded a fleet in the Portugese Civil War of the 1830s,
and risen through the admiral ranks starting in 1849;Wallis had
taken temporary command of HMS Shannon when it captured USS
Chesapeake in 1813.
The 1st Baron Strathnairn(born 1801) was a Field Marshal,
while Sir Richard Dacres(born 1799),the 3rd Earl of Lucan
(born 1800,a lieutenant colonel 1826),who had ordered the
Charge of the Light Brigade,and three men born in 1804
had yet to receive promotion to that rank.

The eldest Dukes included the 6th of Northumberland(b. 1810, great-great-great-grandfather of the 11th and the current 12th Duke)
the 2nd of Wellington(b. 1807,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather
of the present 9th Duke born 1945,an MP 1829 and army major 1830),
the 7th of Devonshire(b. 1808,great-great-great-grandfather of the
present 12th duke born 1944,he had first become an MP in 1829 and
a peer in 1834),the 5th of Buccleuch/7th of Queensberry(b. 1806,
succeeded in 1819,a Knight of the Garter since 1835,great-great-great- grandfather of the present 12th Duke),the 12th of Somerset(b. 1804,
second cousin of the great-great-great-grandfather of the current 19th Duke), and the 4th (and last) of Cleveland (born 1803).
The 1st Duke of Abercorn,so created in 1868,had succeeded to the
Marquessate thereof in 1818 and been a Knight of the Garter since 1844.
The 3rd Marquess of Donegall (born 1797) was alive and would be
succeeded by a younger brother born in 1799(the present peer is the great-great-great-grandson of their first cousin).
The 7th Earl of Shaftesbury(born 1801,an MP from 1826,great- great-great-grandfather of the present peer and his predecessor),the
3rd Earl Grey (born 1802,also an MP from 1826,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer and of his predecessor),and the 2nd Earl of Harrowby(born 1798,an MP from 1819,
a Lord of the Admiralty in 1827,great-great-great-grandfather of the septuagenarian present Earl) were among the Knights of the Garter.
The 1st Earl of Lovelace (born 1805) had over a decade to live,and
had been a Lord-Lieutenant since 1840.
The 3rd and 4th Earl of Mansfield and Mansfield(born 1806 and with
over 15 years to live) had been a Knight of the Thistle since 1843,
and had been an MP from 1830 to 1840,with a spell in Government 1834-5.
The 4th Earl of Arran(born 1801) had been a Knight of
St. Patrick since 1841 and been charge d'affaires in
Buenos Aires 1832-4.
Also among the Earls were the 6th Earl of Essex(born 1803),
and the 6th of Albemarle,born 1799,a veteran of the Battle of Waterloo.
The eldest of Earls were the 2nd Earl Mount Cashell,
born 1792,the 6th Earl of Buckinghamshire,
born 1793,and the 2nd of Stradbroke,born 1794,
commissioned in the Army in 1810,a Lieutenant 1814,
who missed Waterloo on account of a wound.
The Earl of Sandwich had held his title since 1818.
The 9th Viscount of Arbuthnott(born 1806) was alive,the
current peer is the 17th.
The 1st Viscount Portman (born 1799,first elected MP in 1823) was
alive,the present peer is the 10th.
The oldest Viscount,however,was the 1st and last of Eversley,born in 1794
and Speaker of the House of Commons 1839-57.
The senior Viscount was the 2nd Frankfort de Montmorency,
who had inherited his title in 1822.
Barons included the 3rd Baron Gardner,who had inherited that title
in 1815,the 2nd Baron Mostyn(born 1795,great-great-great-great-
grandfather of the present peer),the 2nd Baron Brougham and Vaux
(born 1795,great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer),
the 16th Baron Saye and Sele(born 1799,great-great-grandfather of
the 101-year-old present peer),the 1st Baron Cottesloe (born 1798,great-great-great-grandfather of the present peer),
and the 1st Lord Ebury,born 1801 and a Privy Counsellor since 1830;
the oldest peerage holder was Lady Sempill,born 1790 or possibly 1789.
The Lord Bishop of Chichester was Richard Durnford,born 1802,
and that of Llandaff Alfred Ollivant,born 1798.
Sir Moses Montefiore,born 1784,was the oldest baronet.
Sir Thomas Sabine Pasley had held his baronetcy since 1808.

Cardinal Manning (born 1808) was Catholic Archbishop of Westminster,
but Cardinal Newman(born 1801) was the oldest British cardinal.

Abroad Alexander III had been Emperor and Tsar-Autocrat of all
the Russias for less than a year,and Leo XIII(born 1810) had
more than five-sixths of his time as Pope ahead of him.
Slavery was still legal in Brazil and would be for years.
Wilhelm I,grandfather of the World War I Kaiser,born in 1797,
still ruled Germany.Bernhard II,though abdicated from Saxe-
Meiningen,was still alive and had become Duke during the
Holy Roman Empire.

Consider all the changes,natural and manmade,visited upon the world
in all the time since.

And now consider this...Queen Elizabeth II has been on the Throne
for MOST of that time since then.
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.talk.royalty, alt.politics.british, alt.society.monarchy

In alt.talk.royalty Louis Epstein <le@top.put.com> wrote:

Another "out of bounds" revision to catch an error
(I had omitted Lord Saye and Sele's 101st birthday
months ago...and he is now the oldest living peer
with the death of Viscount Falmouth(1919-2022) on
March 7th).
The only other remaining hereditary peers older than
the Queen (listed in order of birth)

To interpolate the oldest holders of life peerages
among this number:
Baroness Sharples,
Baroness Knight of Collingree.

are the Earl of Elgin & Kincardine,
Baron Monk Bretton(lone surviving peer of George V's reign),
Baron Walsingham,

Baron Plumb,
Baron Christopher,

Baron Wakehurst,the Marquess of
Ailesbury,and Baron Gainford (born the day before
Her Majesty).

With the next revision,the reference date will move
back into 1881 (the year Disraeli died).

-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Consider,if you would,the United Kingdom and Empire
as they were on January 3rd 1882.

Queen Victoria,over 4 months from 63,was on the throne;
she was over five years from her Golden Jubilee,her Diamond Jubilee
would be ten years after that.The future Edward VII was only 8
weeks past 40 (the current Prince of Wales is over 4 months past 73),
the future George V was 5 months from 17(the Duke of Cambridge is
under 4 months from 40--George V became Heir Apparent at 35 when all
his children were younger than Princess Charlotte is now),not yet
Duke of York,and not yet heir apparent to his father;nor was his elder brother (who had over a decade to live) yet 18.
The future Archbishop of Canterbury who would crown King Edward was
Bishop of Exeter.The oldest British royal was George III's daughter-in-law the Duchess of Cambridge (Augusta of Hesse-Cassel),born 1797 and with
over seven years to live.

The Church of England dioceses of Birmingham,Blackburn,Bristol, Coventry,Chelmsford,Derby,Guildford,Leicester,Newcastle,Portsmouth,
St. Edmundsbury and Ipswich,Sheffield,and Southwark did not yet
exist...nor did those of Bradford and Wakefield,now abolished,
or that of Southwell,from which Derby would one day be severed.That of Liverpool was under 2 years old.

Lloyd George,Macdonald,and Baldwin were teenagers,
Chamberlain was twelve and Churchill was seven years old,
and no later Prime Minister(including Attlee)
had yet been born (nor had any person in the world alive after 1999).
Keir Hardie,who years later would found the original Scottish
Labour Party,then the Independent Labour Party,and then the Labour
Party proper,was aged twenty-five and would not be an MP for over
a decade.

William Gladstone (born 1809) was the only living person who had been
Prime Minister (years younger than his predecessors).His government
had not yet sought passage of the Representation of the People Act 1884 (which would for the first time enable most men to vote),which would
be followed by the Redistribution of Seats Act 1885 (which would establish the norm of single-member constituencies) which would first come into
effect with the following election.
Women would not vote in a General Election for over thirty-six years. Christopher Rice Mansel Talbot(born 1803),Father of the House of Commons,
had been a member since 1830...before any of the Reform Bills.(Charles
James Mahon,born 1800,had been a member discontinuously since then).

Lord Coleridge (born 1820) was Lord Chief Justice,and had been
the last Chief Justice of the Common Pleas (a position abolished
by the Judicature Act of 1873).The 1st Lord Esher(born 1815 or 1817,
sources disagree) had yet to become Master of the Rolls.The Royal
Courts of Justice building was under construction and today's Old
Bailey would not open for decades.

Many of the Colonies had yet to be colonized,Hong Kong was over a
decade from adding the New Territories.

Battleships that would be scrapped as obsolete in the reign of Edward VII
had yet to be laid down,nor had either HMS Victoria,which would sink in
an 1893 collision,or the ironclad HMS Camperdown,which would sink it.
Ships built with sailing rigs were still in the active fleet,
some with wooden hulls were still performing reserve and training functions, and it was years before HMS Temeraire would make port under sail alone
for the final time.

The Admirals of the Fleet included Sir George Sartorius(born
1790,a commander in 1812 and post-captain in 1814),and
Sir Provo Wallis (born 1791,a lieutenant 1808,and commander 1813);
Sartorius had been a midshipman on HMS Tonnant at Trafalgar in 1805
nearly 9 years before Francis Scott Key's visit to that ship led to
"The Star-Spangled Banner" being written,witnessed the surrender of Napoleon,commanded a fleet in the Portugese Civil War of the 1830s,
and risen through the admiral ranks starting in 1849;Wallis had
taken temporary command of HMS Shannon when it captured USS
Chesapeake in 1813.
The 1st Baron Strathnairn(born 1801) was a Field Marshal,
while Sir Richard Dacres(born 1799),the 3rd Earl of Lucan
(born 1800,a lieutenant colonel 1826),who had ordered the
Charge of the Light Brigade,and three men born in 1804
had yet to receive promotion to that rank.

The eldest Dukes included the 6th of Northumberland(b. 1810, great-great-great-grandfather of the 11th and the current 12th Duke)
the 2nd of Wellington(b. 1807,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather
of the present 9th Duke born 1945,an MP 1829 and army major 1830),
the 7th of Devonshire(b. 1808,great-great-great-grandfather of the
present 12th duke born 1944,he had first become an MP in 1829 and
a peer in 1834),the 5th of Buccleuch/7th of Queensberry(b. 1806,
succeeded in 1819,a Knight of the Garter since 1835,great-great-great- grandfather of the present 12th Duke),the 12th of Somerset(b. 1804,
second cousin of the great-great-great-grandfather of the current 19th Duke), and the 4th (and last) of Cleveland (born 1803).
The 1st Duke of Abercorn,so created in 1868,had succeeded to the
Marquessate thereof in 1818 and been a Knight of the Garter since 1844.
The 3rd Marquess of Donegall (born 1797) was alive and would be
succeeded by a younger brother born in 1799(the present peer is the great-great-great-grandson of their first cousin).
The 7th Earl of Shaftesbury(born 1801,an MP from 1826,great- great-great-grandfather of the present peer and his predecessor),the
3rd Earl Grey (born 1802,also an MP from 1826,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer and of his predecessor),and the 2nd Earl of Harrowby(born 1798,an MP from 1819,
a Lord of the Admiralty in 1827,great-great-great-grandfather of the septuagenarian present Earl) were among the Knights of the Garter.
The 1st Earl of Lovelace (born 1805) had over a decade to live,and
had been a Lord-Lieutenant since 1840.
The 3rd and 4th Earl of Mansfield and Mansfield(born 1806 and with
over 15 years to live) had been a Knight of the Thistle since 1843,
and had been an MP from 1830 to 1840,with a spell in Government 1834-5.
The 4th Earl of Arran(born 1801) had been a Knight of
St. Patrick since 1841 and been charge d'affaires in
Buenos Aires 1832-4.
Also among the Earls were the 6th Earl of Essex(born 1803),
and the 6th of Albemarle,born 1799,a veteran of the Battle of Waterloo.
The eldest of Earls were the 2nd Earl Mount Cashell,
born 1792,the 6th Earl of Buckinghamshire,
born 1793,and the 2nd of Stradbroke,born 1794,
commissioned in the Army in 1810,a Lieutenant 1814,
who missed Waterloo on account of a wound.
The Earl of Sandwich had held his title since 1818.
The 9th Viscount of Arbuthnott(born 1806) was alive,the
current peer is the 17th.
The 1st Viscount Portman (born 1799,first elected MP in 1823) was
alive,the present peer is the 10th.
The oldest Viscount,however,was the 1st and last of Eversley,born in 1794
and Speaker of the House of Commons 1839-57.
The senior Viscount was the 2nd Frankfort de Montmorency,
who had inherited his title in 1822.
Barons included the 3rd Baron Gardner,who had inherited that title
in 1815,the 2nd Baron Mostyn(born 1795,great-great-great-great-
grandfather of the present peer),the 2nd Baron Brougham and Vaux
(born 1795,great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer),
the 16th Baron Saye and Sele(born 1799,great-great-grandfather of
the 101-year-old present peer),the 1st Baron Cottesloe (born 1798,great-great-great-grandfather of the present peer),
and the 1st Lord Ebury,born 1801 and a Privy Counsellor since 1830;
the oldest peerage holder was Lady Sempill,born 1790 or possibly 1789.
The Lord Bishop of Chichester was Richard Durnford,born 1802,
and that of Llandaff Alfred Ollivant,born 1798.
Sir Moses Montefiore,born 1784,was the oldest baronet.
Sir Thomas Sabine Pasley had held his baronetcy since 1808.

Cardinal Manning (born 1808) was Catholic Archbishop of Westminster,
but Cardinal Newman(born 1801) was the oldest British cardinal.

Abroad Alexander III had been Emperor and Tsar-Autocrat of all
the Russias for less than a year,and Leo XIII(born 1810) had
more than five-sixths of his time as Pope ahead of him.
Slavery was still legal in Brazil and would be for years.
Wilhelm I,grandfather of the World War I Kaiser,born in 1797,
still ruled Germany.Bernhard II,though abdicated from Saxe-
Meiningen,was still alive and had become Duke during the
Holy Roman Empire.

Consider all the changes,natural and manmade,visited upon the world
in all the time since.

And now consider this...Queen Elizabeth II has been on the Throne
for MOST of that time since then.
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.talk.royalty, alt.politics.british, alt.society.monarchy

In alt.talk.royalty Louis Epstein <le@top.put.com> wrote:

In alt.talk.royalty Louis Epstein <le@top.put.com> wrote:

Another "out of bounds" revision to catch an error
(I had omitted Lord Saye and Sele's 101st birthday
months ago...and he is now the oldest living peer
with the death of Viscount Falmouth(1919-2022) on
March 7th).
The only other remaining hereditary peers older than
the Queen (listed in order of birth)

To interpolate the oldest holders of life peerages
among this number:
Baroness Sharples,
Baroness Knight of Collingree.

are the Earl of Elgin & Kincardine,
Baron Monk Bretton(lone surviving peer of George V's reign),
Baron Walsingham,

Baron Plumb,
Baron Christopher,

Baron Wakehurst,the Marquess of
Ailesbury,and Baron Gainford (born the day before
Her Majesty).

Baron Gainford has now died.

The reference date has now moved back before 37 years before the
first General Election in which women voted.

This is the last update before the Queen turns 96 later this month:

-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Consider,if you would,the United Kingdom and Empire
as they were on December 9th 1881.

Queen Victoria,over 5 months from 63,was on the throne;
she was over five years from her Golden Jubilee,her Diamond Jubilee
would be ten years after that.The future Edward VII was only a
month past 40 (the current Prince of Wales is over 4 months past 73),
the future George V was over 5 months from 17(the Duke of Cambridge is
under 3 months from 40--George V became Heir Apparent at 35 when all
his children were younger than Princess Charlotte is now),not yet
Duke of York,and not yet heir apparent to his father;nor was his elder
brother (who had over a decade to live) yet 18.
The future Archbishop of Canterbury who would crown King Edward was
Bishop of Exeter.The oldest British royal was George III's daughter-in-law
the Duchess of Cambridge (Augusta of Hesse-Cassel),born 1797 and with
over seven years to live.

The Church of England dioceses of Birmingham,Blackburn,Bristol, Coventry,Chelmsford,Derby,Guildford,Leicester,Newcastle,Portsmouth,
St. Edmundsbury and Ipswich,Sheffield,and Southwark did not yet
exist...nor did those of Bradford and Wakefield,now abolished,
or that of Southwell,from which Derby would one day be severed.That of Liverpool was under 2 years old.

Lloyd George,Macdonald,and Baldwin were teenagers,
Chamberlain was twelve and Churchill was seven years old,
and no later Prime Minister(including Attlee)
had yet been born (nor had any person in the world alive after 1999).
Keir Hardie,who years later would found the original Scottish
Labour Party,then the Independent Labour Party,and then the Labour
Party proper,was aged twenty-five and would not be an MP for over
a decade.

William Gladstone (born 1809) was the only living person who had been
Prime Minister (years younger than his predecessors).His government
had not yet sought passage of the Representation of the People Act 1884
(which would for the first time enable most men to vote),which would
be followed by the Redistribution of Seats Act 1885 (which would establish
the norm of single-member constituencies) which would first come into
effect with the following election.
Women would not vote in a General Election for over thirty-seven years. Christopher Rice Mansel Talbot(born 1803),Father of the House of Commons,
had been a member since 1830...before any of the Reform Bills.(Charles
James Mahon,born 1800,had been a member discontinuously since then).

Lord Coleridge (born 1820) was Lord Chief Justice,and had been
the last Chief Justice of the Common Pleas (a position abolished
by the Judicature Act of 1873).The 1st Lord Esher(born 1815 or 1817,
sources disagree) had yet to become Master of the Rolls.The Royal
Courts of Justice building was under construction and today's Old
Bailey would not open for decades.

Many of the Colonies had yet to be colonized,Hong Kong was over a
decade from adding the New Territories.

Battleships that would be scrapped as obsolete in the reign of Edward VII
had yet to be laid down,nor had either HMS Victoria,which would sink in
an 1893 collision,or the ironclad HMS Camperdown,which would sink it.
Ships built with sailing rigs were still in the active fleet,
some with wooden hulls were still performing reserve and training functions, and it was years before HMS Temeraire would make port under sail alone
for the final time.

The Admirals of the Fleet included Sir George Sartorius(born
1790,a commander in 1812 and post-captain in 1814),and
Sir Provo Wallis (born 1791,a lieutenant 1808,and commander 1813);
Sartorius had been a midshipman on HMS Tonnant at Trafalgar in 1805
nearly 9 years before Francis Scott Key's visit to that ship led to
"The Star-Spangled Banner" being written,witnessed the surrender of Napoleon,commanded a fleet in the Portugese Civil War of the 1830s,
and risen through the admiral ranks starting in 1849;Wallis had
taken temporary command of HMS Shannon when it captured USS
Chesapeake in 1813.
The 1st Baron Strathnairn(born 1801) was a Field Marshal,
while Sir Richard Dacres(born 1799),the 3rd Earl of Lucan
(born 1800,a lieutenant colonel 1826),who had ordered the
Charge of the Light Brigade,and three men born in 1804
had yet to receive promotion to that rank.

The eldest Dukes included the 6th of Northumberland(b. 1810, great-great-great-grandfather of the 11th and the current 12th Duke)
the 2nd of Wellington(b. 1807,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather
of the present 9th Duke born 1945,an MP 1829 and army major 1830),
the 7th of Devonshire(b. 1808,great-great-great-grandfather of the
present 12th duke born 1944,he had first become an MP in 1829 and
a peer in 1834),the 5th of Buccleuch/7th of Queensberry(b. 1806,
succeeded in 1819,a Knight of the Garter since 1835,great-great-great- grandfather of the present 12th Duke),the 12th of Somerset(b. 1804,
second cousin of the great-great-great-grandfather of the current 19th Duke), and the 4th (and last) of Cleveland (born 1803).
The 1st Duke of Abercorn,so created in 1868,had succeeded to the
Marquessate thereof in 1818 and been a Knight of the Garter since 1844.
The 3rd Marquess of Donegall (born 1797) was alive and would be
succeeded by a younger brother born in 1799(the present peer is the great-great-great-grandson of their first cousin).
The 7th Earl of Shaftesbury(born 1801,an MP from 1826,great- great-great-grandfather of the present peer and his predecessor),the
3rd Earl Grey (born 1802,also an MP from 1826,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer and of his predecessor),and the 2nd Earl of Harrowby(born 1798,an MP from 1819,
a Lord of the Admiralty in 1827,great-great-great-grandfather of the septuagenarian present Earl) were among the Knights of the Garter.
The 1st Earl of Lovelace (born 1805) had over a decade to live,and
had been a Lord-Lieutenant since 1840.
The 3rd and 4th Earl of Mansfield and Mansfield(born 1806 and with
over 15 years to live) had been a Knight of the Thistle since 1843,
and had been an MP from 1830 to 1840,with a spell in Government 1834-5.
The 4th Earl of Arran(born 1801) had been a Knight of
St. Patrick since 1841 and been charge d'affaires in
Buenos Aires 1832-4.
Also among the Earls were the 6th Earl of Essex(born 1803),
and the 6th of Albemarle,born 1799,a veteran of the Battle of Waterloo.
The eldest of Earls were the 2nd Earl Mount Cashell,
born 1792,the 6th Earl of Buckinghamshire,
born 1793,and the 2nd of Stradbroke,born 1794,
commissioned in the Army in 1810,a Lieutenant 1814,
who missed Waterloo on account of a wound.
The Earl of Sandwich had held his title since 1818.
The 9th Viscount of Arbuthnott(born 1806) was alive,the
current peer is the 17th.
The 1st Viscount Portman (born 1799,first elected MP in 1823) was
alive,the present peer is the 10th.
The oldest Viscount,however,was the 1st and last of Eversley,born in 1794
and Speaker of the House of Commons 1839-57.
The senior Viscount was the 2nd Frankfort de Montmorency,
who had inherited his title in 1822.
Barons included the 3rd Baron Gardner,who had inherited that title
in 1815,the 2nd Baron Mostyn(born 1795,great-great-great-great-
grandfather of the present peer),the 2nd Baron Brougham and Vaux
(born 1795,great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer),
the 16th Baron Saye and Sele(born 1799,great-great-grandfather of
the 101-year-old present peer),the 1st Baron Cottesloe (born 1798,great-great-great-grandfather of the present peer),
and the 1st Lord Ebury,born 1801 and a Privy Counsellor since 1830;
the oldest peerage holder was Lady Sempill,born 1790 or possibly 1789.
The Lord Bishop of Chichester was Richard Durnford,born 1802,
and that of Llandaff Alfred Ollivant,born 1798.
Sir Moses Montefiore,born 1784,was the oldest baronet.
Sir Thomas Sabine Pasley had held his baronetcy since 1808.

Cardinal Manning (born 1808) was Catholic Archbishop of Westminster,
but Cardinal Newman(born 1801) was the oldest British cardinal.

Abroad Alexander III had been Emperor and Tsar-Autocrat of all
the Russias for less than a year,and Leo XIII(born 1810) had
more than five-sixths of his time as Pope ahead of him.
Slavery was still legal in Brazil and would be for years.
Wilhelm I,grandfather of the World War I Kaiser,born in 1797,
still ruled Germany.Bernhard II,though abdicated from Saxe-
Meiningen,was still alive and had become Duke during the
Holy Roman Empire.

Consider all the changes,natural and manmade,visited upon the world
in all the time since.

And now consider this...Queen Elizabeth II has been on the Throne
for MOST of that time since then.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.talk.royalty, alt.politics.british, alt.society.monarchy

In alt.talk.royalty Louis Epstein <le@top.put.com> wrote:

In alt.talk.royalty Louis Epstein <le@top.put.com> wrote:

In alt.talk.royalty Louis Epstein <le@top.put.com> wrote:

Another "out of bounds" revision to catch an error
(I had omitted Lord Saye and Sele's 101st birthday
months ago...and he is now the oldest living peer
with the death of Viscount Falmouth(1919-2022) on
March 7th).
The only other remaining hereditary peers older than
the Queen (listed in order of birth)

To interpolate the oldest holders of life peerages
among this number:
Baroness Sharples,
Baroness Knight of Collingtree.

Now deceased...

are the Earl of Elgin & Kincardine,
Baron Monk Bretton(lone surviving peer of George V's reign),
Baron Walsingham,

Baron Plumb,

Now deceased as well.

Baron Christopher,

Baron Wakehurst,the Marquess of
Ailesbury,and Baron Gainford (born the day before
Her Majesty).

Baron Gainford has now died.

So

Sept 22 1920 Saye and Sele B
Sharples Bss [L] Feb 11 1923
Feb 17 1924 Elgin & Kincardine E
July 17 1924 Monk Bretton B
Feb 21 1925 Walsingham B
Christopher B [L] April 25 1925
Sept 23 1925 Wakehurst B
March 31 1926 Ailesbury M

(Will the Queen survive them all?)

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.talk.royalty, alt.politics.british, alt.society.monarchy

The Queen has turned 96,and therefore has
been a member of the British Royal Family
for most of the time since April 22nd 1830
(months before the death of George IV).

As to her reign,the reference date has now
moved back before the seventh birthday of
Winston Churchill.

I see that a biography of the Duke of Cambridge
at 40 is planned for release around that birthday;
he is of course the oldest ever child of a Prince
of Wales,and his children hold some records for
children of a son of a Prince of Wales (Prince
George oldest child or son,Princess Charlotte
oldest second child or daughter,Prince Louis who
turns 4 shortly the oldest third child but not
yet oldest second son).

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Consider,if you would,the United Kingdom and Empire
as they were on November 25th 1881.

Queen Victoria,over 5 months from 63,was on the throne;
she was over five years from her Golden Jubilee,her Diamond Jubilee
would be ten years after that.The future Edward VII was under 3
weeks past 40 (the current Prince of Wales is over 5 months past 73),
the future George V was over 6 months from 17(the Duke of Cambridge is
only 2 months from 40--George V became Heir Apparent at 35 when all
his children were younger than Princess Charlotte is now),not yet
Duke of York,and not yet heir apparent to his father;nor was his elder
brother (who had over a decade to live) yet 18.
The future Archbishop of Canterbury who would crown King Edward was
Bishop of Exeter.The oldest British royal was George III's daughter-in-law
the Duchess of Cambridge (Augusta of Hesse-Cassel),born 1797 and with
over seven years to live.

The Church of England dioceses of Birmingham,Blackburn,Bristol, Coventry,Chelmsford,Derby,Guildford,Leicester,Newcastle,Portsmouth,
St. Edmundsbury and Ipswich,Sheffield,and Southwark did not yet
exist...nor did those of Bradford and Wakefield,now abolished,
or that of Southwell,from which Derby would one day be severed.That of Liverpool was under 2 years old.

Lloyd George,Macdonald,and Baldwin were teenagers,
Chamberlain was twelve and Churchill was six years old,
and no later Prime Minister(including Attlee)
had yet been born (nor had any person in the world alive after 1999).
Keir Hardie,who years later would found the original Scottish
Labour Party,then the Independent Labour Party,and then the Labour
Party proper,was aged twenty-five and would not be an MP for over
a decade.

William Gladstone (born 1809) was the only living person who had been
Prime Minister (years younger than his predecessors).His government
had not yet sought passage of the Representation of the People Act 1884
(which would for the first time enable most men to vote),which would
be followed by the Redistribution of Seats Act 1885 (which would establish
the norm of single-member constituencies) which would first come into
effect with the following election.
Women would not vote in a General Election for over thirty-seven years. Christopher Rice Mansel Talbot(born 1803),Father of the House of Commons,
had been a member since 1830...before any of the Reform Bills.(Charles
James Mahon,born 1800,had been a member discontinuously since then).

Lord Coleridge (born 1820) was Lord Chief Justice,and had been
the last Chief Justice of the Common Pleas (a position abolished
by the Judicature Act of 1873).The 1st Lord Esher(born 1815 or 1817,
sources disagree) had yet to become Master of the Rolls.The Royal
Courts of Justice building was under construction and today's Old
Bailey would not open for decades.

Many of the Colonies had yet to be colonized,Hong Kong was over a
decade from adding the New Territories.

Battleships that would be scrapped as obsolete in the reign of Edward VII
had yet to be laid down,nor had either HMS Victoria,which would sink in
an 1893 collision,or the ironclad HMS Camperdown,which would sink it.
Ships built with sailing rigs were still in the active fleet,
some with wooden hulls were still performing reserve and training functions, and it was years before HMS Temeraire would make port under sail alone
for the final time.

The Admirals of the Fleet included Sir George Sartorius(born
1790,a commander in 1812 and post-captain in 1814),and
Sir Provo Wallis (born 1791,a lieutenant 1808,and commander 1813);
Sartorius had been a midshipman on HMS Tonnant at Trafalgar in 1805
nearly 9 years before Francis Scott Key's visit to that ship led to
"The Star-Spangled Banner" being written,witnessed the surrender of Napoleon,commanded a fleet in the Portugese Civil War of the 1830s,
and risen through the admiral ranks starting in 1849;Wallis had
taken temporary command of HMS Shannon when it captured USS
Chesapeake in 1813.
The 1st Baron Strathnairn(born 1801) was a Field Marshal,
while Sir Richard Dacres(born 1799),the 3rd Earl of Lucan
(born 1800,a lieutenant colonel 1826),who had ordered the
Charge of the Light Brigade,and three men born in 1804
had yet to receive promotion to that rank.

The eldest Dukes included the 6th of Northumberland(b. 1810, great-great-great-grandfather of the 11th and the current 12th Duke)
the 2nd of Wellington(b. 1807,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather
of the present 9th Duke born 1945,an MP 1829 and army major 1830),
the 7th of Devonshire(b. 1808,great-great-great-grandfather of the
present 12th duke born 1944,he had first become an MP in 1829 and
a peer in 1834),the 5th of Buccleuch/7th of Queensberry(b. 1806,
succeeded in 1819,a Knight of the Garter since 1835,great-great-great- grandfather of the present 12th Duke),the 12th of Somerset(b. 1804,
second cousin of the great-great-great-grandfather of the current 19th Duke), and the 4th (and last) of Cleveland (born 1803).
The 1st Duke of Abercorn,so created in 1868,had succeeded to the
Marquessate thereof in 1818 and been a Knight of the Garter since 1844.
The 3rd Marquess of Donegall (born 1797) was alive and would be
succeeded by a younger brother born in 1799(the present peer is the great-great-great-grandson of their first cousin).
The 7th Earl of Shaftesbury(born 1801,an MP from 1826,great- great-great-grandfather of the present peer and his predecessor),the
3rd Earl Grey (born 1802,also an MP from 1826,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer and of his predecessor),and the 2nd Earl of Harrowby(born 1798,an MP from 1819,
a Lord of the Admiralty in 1827,great-great-great-grandfather of the septuagenarian present Earl) were among the Knights of the Garter.
The 1st Earl of Lovelace (born 1805) had over a decade to live,and
had been a Lord-Lieutenant since 1840.
The 3rd and 4th Earl of Mansfield and Mansfield(born 1806 and with
over 15 years to live) had been a Knight of the Thistle since 1843,
and had been an MP from 1830 to 1840,with a spell in Government 1834-5.
The 4th Earl of Arran(born 1801) had been a Knight of
St. Patrick since 1841 and been charge d'affaires in
Buenos Aires 1832-4.
Also among the Earls were the 6th Earl of Essex(born 1803),
and the 6th of Albemarle,born 1799,a veteran of the Battle of Waterloo.
The eldest of Earls were the 2nd Earl Mount Cashell,
born 1792,the 6th Earl of Buckinghamshire,
born 1793,and the 2nd of Stradbroke,born 1794,
commissioned in the Army in 1810,a Lieutenant 1814,
who missed Waterloo on account of a wound.
The Earl of Sandwich had held his title since 1818.
The 9th Viscount of Arbuthnott(born 1806) was alive,the
current peer is the 17th.
The 1st Viscount Portman (born 1799,first elected MP in 1823) was
alive,the present peer is the 10th.
The oldest Viscount,however,was the 1st and last of Eversley,born in 1794
and Speaker of the House of Commons 1839-57.
The senior Viscount was the 2nd Frankfort de Montmorency,
who had inherited his title in 1822.
Barons included the 3rd Baron Gardner,who had inherited that title
in 1815,the 2nd Baron Mostyn(born 1795,great-great-great-great-
grandfather of the present peer),the 2nd Baron Brougham and Vaux
(born 1795,great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer),
the 16th Baron Saye and Sele(born 1799,great-great-grandfather of
the 101-year-old present peer),the 1st Baron Cottesloe (born 1798,great-great-great-grandfather of the present peer),
and the 1st Lord Ebury,born 1801 and a Privy Counsellor since 1830;
the oldest peerage holder was Lady Sempill,born 1790 or possibly 1789.
The Lord Bishop of Chichester was Richard Durnford,born 1802,
and that of Llandaff Alfred Ollivant,born 1798.
Sir Moses Montefiore,born 1784,was the oldest baronet.
Sir Thomas Sabine Pasley had held his baronetcy since 1808.

Cardinal Manning (born 1808) was Catholic Archbishop of Westminster,
but Cardinal Newman(born 1801) was the oldest British cardinal.

Abroad Alexander III had been Emperor and Tsar-Autocrat of all
the Russias for less than a year,and Leo XIII(born 1810) had
more than five-sixths of his time as Pope ahead of him.
Slavery was still legal in Brazil and would be for years.
Wilhelm I,grandfather of the World War I Kaiser,born in 1797,
still ruled Germany.Bernhard II,though abdicated from Saxe-
Meiningen,was still alive and had become Duke during the
Holy Roman Empire.

Consider all the changes,natural and manmade,visited upon the world
in all the time since.

And now consider this...Queen Elizabeth II has been on the Throne
for MOST of that time since then.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.talk.royalty, alt.politics.british, alt.society.monarchy

As observed on a branch,the Queen has now
reigned longer than the 1858-1929 tenure
(also unregented,he acceded at 18) of Prince
Johann II of Liechtenstein.

The reference date has now moved back before the 40th
birthday of Edward VII,while the present day moves toward
the 40th birthday of the Duke of Cambridge...soon the
referenced ages will cross,just as the ages of Queen Victoria
and the Prince of Wales did.The reference-date age of George V
is now less than twice the present age of the prospective
George VII,who was not yet born when I started compiling this.

-=-=-=-=-=-
Consider,if you would,the United Kingdom and Empire
as they were on November 8th 1881.

Queen Victoria,over 6 months from 63,was on the throne;
she was over five years from her Golden Jubilee,her Diamond Jubilee
would be ten years after that.The future Edward VII was a day
short of 40 (the current Prince of Wales is over 5 months past 73),
the future George V was over 6 months from 17(the Duke of Cambridge is
now 6 weeks from 40--George V became Heir Apparent at 35 when all
his children were younger than Princess Charlotte is now),not yet
Duke of York,and not yet heir apparent to his father;nor was his elder
brother (who had over a decade to live) yet 18.
The future Archbishop of Canterbury who would crown King Edward was
Bishop of Exeter.The oldest British royal was George III's daughter-in-law
the Duchess of Cambridge (Augusta of Hesse-Cassel),born 1797 and with
over seven years to live.

The Church of England dioceses of Birmingham,Blackburn,Bristol, Coventry,Chelmsford,Derby,Guildford,Leicester,Newcastle,Portsmouth,
St. Edmundsbury and Ipswich,Sheffield,and Southwark did not yet
exist...nor did those of Bradford and Wakefield,now abolished,
or that of Southwell,from which Derby would one day be severed.That of Liverpool was under 2 years old.

Lloyd George,Macdonald,and Baldwin were teenagers,
Chamberlain was twelve and Churchill was six years old,
and no later Prime Minister(including Attlee)
had yet been born (nor had any person in the world alive after 1999).
Keir Hardie,who years later would found the original Scottish
Labour Party,then the Independent Labour Party,and then the Labour
Party proper,was aged twenty-five and would not be an MP for over
a decade.

William Gladstone (born 1809) was the only living person who had been
Prime Minister (years younger than his predecessors).His government
had not yet sought passage of the Representation of the People Act 1884
(which would for the first time enable most men to vote),which would
be followed by the Redistribution of Seats Act 1885 (which would establish
the norm of single-member constituencies) which would first come into
effect with the following election.
Women would not vote in a General Election for over thirty-seven years. Christopher Rice Mansel Talbot(born 1803),Father of the House of Commons,
had been a member since 1830...before any of the Reform Bills.(Charles
James Mahon,born 1800,had been a member discontinuously since then).

Lord Coleridge (born 1820) was Lord Chief Justice,and had been
the last Chief Justice of the Common Pleas (a position abolished
by the Judicature Act of 1873).The 1st Lord Esher(born 1815 or 1817,
sources disagree) had yet to become Master of the Rolls.The Royal
Courts of Justice building was under construction and today's Old
Bailey would not open for decades.

Many of the Colonies had yet to be colonized,Hong Kong was over a
decade from adding the New Territories.

Battleships that would be scrapped as obsolete in the reign of Edward VII
had yet to be laid down,nor had either HMS Victoria,which would sink in
an 1893 collision,or the ironclad HMS Camperdown,which would sink it.
Ships built with sailing rigs were still in the active fleet,
some with wooden hulls were still performing reserve and training functions, and it was years before HMS Temeraire would make port under sail alone
for the final time.

The Admirals of the Fleet included Sir George Sartorius(born
1790,a commander in 1812 and post-captain in 1814),and
Sir Provo Wallis (born 1791,a lieutenant 1808,and commander 1813);
Sartorius had been a midshipman on HMS Tonnant at Trafalgar in 1805
nearly 9 years before Francis Scott Key's visit to that ship led to
"The Star-Spangled Banner" being written,witnessed the surrender of Napoleon,commanded a fleet in the Portugese Civil War of the 1830s,
and risen through the admiral ranks starting in 1849;Wallis had
taken temporary command of HMS Shannon when it captured USS
Chesapeake in 1813.
The 1st Baron Strathnairn(born 1801) was a Field Marshal,
while Sir Richard Dacres(born 1799),the 3rd Earl of Lucan
(born 1800,a lieutenant colonel 1826),who had ordered the
Charge of the Light Brigade,and three men born in 1804
had yet to receive promotion to that rank.

The eldest Dukes included the 6th of Northumberland(b. 1810, great-great-great-grandfather of the 11th and the current 12th Duke)
the 2nd of Wellington(b. 1807,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather
of the present 9th Duke born 1945,an MP 1829 and army major 1830),
the 7th of Devonshire(b. 1808,great-great-great-grandfather of the
present 12th duke born 1944,he had first become an MP in 1829 and
a peer in 1834),the 5th of Buccleuch/7th of Queensberry(b. 1806,
succeeded in 1819,a Knight of the Garter since 1835,great-great-great- grandfather of the present 12th Duke),the 12th of Somerset(b. 1804,
second cousin of the great-great-great-grandfather of the current 19th Duke), and the 4th (and last) of Cleveland (born 1803).
The 1st Duke of Abercorn,so created in 1868,had succeeded to the
Marquessate thereof in 1818 and been a Knight of the Garter since 1844.
The 3rd Marquess of Donegall (born 1797) was alive and would be
succeeded by a younger brother born in 1799(the present peer is the great-great-great-grandson of their first cousin).
The 7th Earl of Shaftesbury(born 1801,an MP from 1826,great- great-great-grandfather of the present peer and his predecessor),the
3rd Earl Grey (born 1802,also an MP from 1826,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer and of his predecessor),and the 2nd Earl of Harrowby(born 1798,an MP from 1819,
a Lord of the Admiralty in 1827,great-great-great-grandfather of the septuagenarian present Earl) were among the Knights of the Garter.
The 1st Earl of Lovelace (born 1805) had over a decade to live,and
had been a Lord-Lieutenant since 1840.
The 3rd and 4th Earl of Mansfield and Mansfield(born 1806 and with
over 15 years to live) had been a Knight of the Thistle since 1843,
and had been an MP from 1830 to 1840,with a spell in Government 1834-5.
The 4th Earl of Arran(born 1801) had been a Knight of
St. Patrick since 1841 and been charge d'affaires in
Buenos Aires 1832-4.
Also among the Earls were the 6th Earl of Essex(born 1803),
and the 6th of Albemarle,born 1799,a veteran of the Battle of Waterloo.
The eldest of Earls were the 2nd Earl Mount Cashell,
born 1792,the 6th Earl of Buckinghamshire,
born 1793,and the 2nd of Stradbroke,born 1794,
commissioned in the Army in 1810,a Lieutenant 1814,
who missed Waterloo on account of a wound.
The Earl of Sandwich had held his title since 1818.
The 9th Viscount of Arbuthnott(born 1806) was alive,the
current peer is the 17th.
The 1st Viscount Portman (born 1799,first elected MP in 1823) was
alive,the present peer is the 10th.
The oldest Viscount,however,was the 1st and last of Eversley,born in 1794
and Speaker of the House of Commons 1839-57.
The senior Viscount was the 2nd Frankfort de Montmorency,
who had inherited his title in 1822.
Barons included the 3rd Baron Gardner,who had inherited that title
in 1815,the 2nd Baron Mostyn(born 1795,great-great-great-great-
grandfather of the present peer),the 2nd Baron Brougham and Vaux
(born 1795,great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer),
the 16th Baron Saye and Sele(born 1799,great-great-grandfather of
the 101-year-old present peer),the 1st Baron Cottesloe (born 1798,great-great-great-grandfather of the present peer),
and the 1st Lord Ebury,born 1801 and a Privy Counsellor since 1830;
the oldest peerage holder was Lady Sempill,born 1790 or possibly 1789.
The Lord Bishop of Chichester was Richard Durnford,born 1802,
and that of Llandaff Alfred Ollivant,born 1798.
Sir Moses Montefiore,born 1784,was the oldest baronet.
Sir Thomas Sabine Pasley had held his baronetcy since 1808.

Cardinal Manning (born 1808) was Catholic Archbishop of Westminster,
but Cardinal Newman(born 1801) was the oldest British cardinal.

Abroad Alexander III had been Emperor and Tsar-Autocrat of all
the Russias for less than a year,and Leo XIII(born 1810) had
more than five-sixths of his time as Pope ahead of him.
Slavery was still legal in Brazil and would be for years.
Wilhelm I,grandfather of the World War I Kaiser,born in 1797,
still ruled Germany.Bernhard II,though abdicated from Saxe-
Meiningen,was still alive and had become Duke during the
Holy Roman Empire.

Consider all the changes,natural and manmade,visited upon the world
in all the time since.

And now consider this...Queen Elizabeth II has been on the Throne
for MOST of that time since then.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.talk.royalty, alt.politics.british, alt.society.monarchy

In alt.talk.royalty Louis Epstein <le@top.put.com> wrote:

In alt.talk.royalty Louis Epstein <le@top.put.com> wrote:

In alt.talk.royalty Louis Epstein <le@top.put.com> wrote:

In alt.talk.royalty Louis Epstein <le@top.put.com> wrote:

Another "out of bounds" revision to catch an error
(I had omitted Lord Saye and Sele's 101st birthday
months ago...and he is now the oldest living peer
with the death of Viscount Falmouth(1919-2022) on
March 7th).
The only other remaining hereditary peers older than
the Queen (listed in order of birth)

To interpolate the oldest holders of life peerages
among this number:
Baroness Sharples,
Baroness Knight of Collingtree.

Now deceased...

are the Earl of Elgin & Kincardine,
Baron Monk Bretton(lone surviving peer of George V's reign),
Baron Walsingham,

Baron Plumb,

Now deceased as well.

Baron Christopher,

Baron Wakehurst,the Marquess of
Ailesbury,and Baron Gainford (born the day before
Her Majesty).

Baron Gainford has now died.

So

Sept 22 1920 Saye and Sele B
Sharples Bss [L] Feb 11 1923

...died May 19th 2022.

Feb 17 1924 Elgin & Kincardine E
July 17 1924 Monk Bretton B
Feb 21 1925 Walsingham B
Christopher B [L] April 25 1925

Now the oldest life peer.

Sept 23 1925 Wakehurst B
March 31 1926 Ailesbury M

(Will the Queen survive them all?)

Seven remain!

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.talk.royalty, alt.politics.british, alt.society.monarchy

In alt.talk.royalty Louis Epstein <le@top.put.com> wrote:

In alt.talk.royalty Louis Epstein <le@top.put.com> wrote:

In alt.talk.royalty Louis Epstein <le@top.put.com> wrote:

In alt.talk.royalty Louis Epstein <le@top.put.com> wrote:

In alt.talk.royalty Louis Epstein <le@top.put.com> wrote:

Another "out of bounds" revision to catch an error
(I had omitted Lord Saye and Sele's 101st birthday
months ago...and he is now the oldest living peer
with the death of Viscount Falmouth(1919-2022) on
March 7th).
The only other remaining hereditary peers older than
the Queen (listed in order of birth)

To interpolate the oldest holders of life peerages
among this number:
Baroness Sharples,
Baroness Knight of Collingtree.

Now deceased...

are the Earl of Elgin & Kincardine,
Baron Monk Bretton(lone surviving peer of George V's reign),
Baron Walsingham,

Baron Plumb,

Now deceased as well.

Baron Christopher,

Baron Wakehurst,the Marquess of
Ailesbury,and Baron Gainford (born the day before
Her Majesty).

Baron Gainford has now died.

So

Sept 22 1920 Saye and Sele B
Sharples Bss [L] Feb 11 1923

...died May 19th 2022.

Feb 17 1924 Elgin & Kincardine E
July 17 1924 Monk Bretton B

Died May 26th 2022.
Longest tenured holder of a peerage in history
(acceded in July 1933).

Feb 21 1925 Walsingham B
Christopher B [L] April 25 1925

Now the oldest life peer.

Sept 23 1925 Wakehurst B
March 31 1926 Ailesbury M

(Will the Queen survive them all?)

Seven remain!

Six remain!

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.talk.royalty, alt.politics.british, alt.society.monarchy

An update for the Jubilee celebrations.

As noted as imminent in the last update,the Duke of Cambridge
is now older than the age of Edward VII as of the
ever-receding reference date...I have also added a
note as to the recency,compared to the reference date,
of the Ballot Act of 1872 (before then MPs were chosen
by show of hands in at least some places).

The midpoint of the current reign has entered April 1987,
and the start of November 2004 is now closer to the
middle of Her Majesty's reign than to the present.
The end of the middle third is approaching the end of 1998.

-=-=-=-=-=-

Consider,if you would,the United Kingdom and Empire
as they were on October 14th 1881.

Queen Victoria,under 5 months past 62,was on the throne;
she was over five years from her Golden Jubilee,her Diamond Jubilee
would be ten years after that.The future Edward VII was more than 3
weeks short of 40 (the current Prince of Wales is over 6 months past 73),
the future George V was under 5 months past 16(the Duke of Cambridge is
under 3 weeks from 40--George V became Heir Apparent at 35 when all
his children were younger than Princess Charlotte is now),not yet
Duke of York,and not yet heir apparent to his father;nor was his elder
brother (who had over a decade to live) yet 18.
The future Archbishop of Canterbury who would crown King Edward was
Bishop of Exeter.The oldest British royal was George III's daughter-in-law
the Duchess of Cambridge (Augusta of Hesse-Cassel),born 1797 and with
over seven years to live.

The Church of England dioceses of Birmingham,Blackburn,Bristol, Coventry,Chelmsford,Derby,Guildford,Leicester,Newcastle,Portsmouth,
St. Edmundsbury and Ipswich,Sheffield,and Southwark did not yet
exist...nor did those of Bradford and Wakefield,now abolished,
or that of Southwell,from which Derby would one day be severed.That of Liverpool was under 2 years old.

Lloyd George,Macdonald,and Baldwin were teenagers,
Chamberlain was twelve and Churchill was six years old,
and no later Prime Minister(including Attlee)
had yet been born (nor had any person in the world alive after 1999).
Keir Hardie,who years later would found the original Scottish
Labour Party,then the Independent Labour Party,and then the Labour
Party proper,was aged twenty-five and would not be an MP for over
a decade.

William Gladstone (born 1809) was the only living person who had been
Prime Minister (years younger than his predecessors).His government
had not yet sought passage of the Representation of the People Act 1884
(which would for the first time enable most men to vote),which would
be followed by the Redistribution of Seats Act 1885 (which would establish
the norm of single-member constituencies) which would first come into
effect with the following election.(The secret ballot had been law
for nine years).
Women would not vote in a General Election for over thirty-seven years. Christopher Rice Mansel Talbot(born 1803),Father of the House of Commons,
had been a member since 1830...before any of the Reform Bills.(Charles
James Mahon,born 1800,had been a member discontinuously since then).

Lord Coleridge (born 1820) was Lord Chief Justice,and had been
the last Chief Justice of the Common Pleas (a position abolished
by the Judicature Act of 1873).The 1st Lord Esher(born 1815 or 1817,
sources disagree) had yet to become Master of the Rolls.The Royal
Courts of Justice building was under construction and today's Old
Bailey would not open for decades.

Many of the Colonies had yet to be colonized,Hong Kong was over a
decade from adding the New Territories.

Battleships that would be scrapped as obsolete in the reign of Edward VII
had yet to be laid down,nor had either HMS Victoria,which would sink in
an 1893 collision,or the ironclad HMS Camperdown,which would sink it.
Ships built with sailing rigs were still in the active fleet,
some with wooden hulls were still performing reserve and training functions, and it was years before HMS Temeraire would make port under sail alone
for the final time.

The Admirals of the Fleet included Sir George Sartorius(born
1790,a commander in 1812 and post-captain in 1814),and
Sir Provo Wallis (born 1791,a lieutenant 1808,and commander 1813);
Sartorius had been a midshipman on HMS Tonnant at Trafalgar in 1805
nearly 9 years before Francis Scott Key's visit to that ship led to
"The Star-Spangled Banner" being written,witnessed the surrender of Napoleon,commanded a fleet in the Portugese Civil War of the 1830s,
and risen through the admiral ranks starting in 1849;Wallis had
taken temporary command of HMS Shannon when it captured USS
Chesapeake in 1813.
The 1st Baron Strathnairn(born 1801) was a Field Marshal,
while Sir Richard Dacres(born 1799),the 3rd Earl of Lucan
(born 1800,a lieutenant colonel 1826),who had ordered the
Charge of the Light Brigade,and three men born in 1804
had yet to receive promotion to that rank.

The eldest Dukes included the 6th of Northumberland(b. 1810, great-great-great-grandfather of the 11th and the current 12th Duke)
the 2nd of Wellington(b. 1807,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather
of the present 9th Duke born 1945,an MP 1829 and army major 1830),
the 7th of Devonshire(b. 1808,great-great-great-grandfather of the
present 12th duke born 1944,he had first become an MP in 1829 and
a peer in 1834),the 5th of Buccleuch/7th of Queensberry(b. 1806,
succeeded in 1819,a Knight of the Garter since 1835,great-great-great- grandfather of the present 12th Duke),the 12th of Somerset(b. 1804,
second cousin of the great-great-great-grandfather of the current 19th Duke), and the 4th (and last) of Cleveland (born 1803).
The 1st Duke of Abercorn,so created in 1868,had succeeded to the
Marquessate thereof in 1818 and been a Knight of the Garter since 1844.
The 3rd Marquess of Donegall (born 1797) was alive and would be
succeeded by a younger brother born in 1799(the present peer is the great-great-great-grandson of their first cousin).
The 7th Earl of Shaftesbury(born 1801,an MP from 1826,great- great-great-grandfather of the present peer and his predecessor),the
3rd Earl Grey (born 1802,also an MP from 1826,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer and of his predecessor),and the 2nd Earl of Harrowby(born 1798,an MP from 1819,
a Lord of the Admiralty in 1827,great-great-great-grandfather of the septuagenarian present Earl) were among the Knights of the Garter.
The 1st Earl of Lovelace (born 1805) had over a decade to live,and
had been a Lord-Lieutenant since 1840.
The 3rd and 4th Earl of Mansfield and Mansfield(born 1806 and with
over 15 years to live) had been a Knight of the Thistle since 1843,
and had been an MP from 1830 to 1840,with a spell in Government 1834-5.
The 4th Earl of Arran(born 1801) had been a Knight of
St. Patrick since 1841 and been charge d'affaires in
Buenos Aires 1832-4.
Also among the Earls were the 6th Earl of Essex(born 1803),
and the 6th of Albemarle,born 1799,a veteran of the Battle of Waterloo.
The eldest of Earls were the 2nd Earl Mount Cashell,
born 1792,the 6th Earl of Buckinghamshire,
born 1793,and the 2nd of Stradbroke,born 1794,
commissioned in the Army in 1810,a Lieutenant 1814,
who missed Waterloo on account of a wound.
The Earl of Sandwich had held his title since 1818.
The 9th Viscount of Arbuthnott(born 1806) was alive,the
current peer is the 17th.
The 1st Viscount Portman (born 1799,first elected MP in 1823) was
alive,the present peer is the 10th.
The oldest Viscount,however,was the 1st and last of Eversley,born in 1794
and Speaker of the House of Commons 1839-57.
The senior Viscount was the 2nd Frankfort de Montmorency,
who had inherited his title in 1822.
Barons included the 3rd Baron Gardner,who had inherited that title
in 1815,the 2nd Baron Mostyn(born 1795,great-great-great-great-
grandfather of the present peer),the 2nd Baron Brougham and Vaux
(born 1795,great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer),
the 16th Baron Saye and Sele(born 1799,great-great-grandfather of
the 101-year-old present peer),the 1st Baron Cottesloe (born 1798,great-great-great-grandfather of the present peer),
and the 1st Lord Ebury,born 1801 and a Privy Counsellor since 1830,
who had over a decade to live;
the oldest peerage holder was Lady Sempill,born 1790 or possibly 1789.
The Lord Bishop of Chichester was Richard Durnford,born 1802,
and that of Llandaff Alfred Ollivant,born 1798.
Sir Moses Montefiore,born 1784,was the oldest baronet.
Sir Thomas Sabine Pasley had held his baronetcy since 1808.

Cardinal Manning (born 1808) was Catholic Archbishop of Westminster,
but Cardinal Newman(born 1801) was the oldest British cardinal.

Abroad Alexander III had been Emperor and Tsar-Autocrat of all
the Russias for less than a year,and Leo XIII(born 1810) had
more than five-sixths of his time as Pope ahead of him.
Slavery was still legal in Brazil and would be for years.
Wilhelm I,grandfather of the World War I Kaiser,born in 1797,
still ruled Germany.Bernhard II,though abdicated from Saxe-
Meiningen,was still alive and had become Duke during the
Holy Roman Empire.

Consider all the changes,natural and manmade,visited upon the world
in all the time since.

And now consider this...Queen Elizabeth II has been on the Throne
for MOST of that time since then.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.talk.royalty, alt.politics.british, alt.society.monarchy

A revision for the 40th birthday of the Duke of Cambridge,
which also marks two months after the Queen turned 96.

The Queen's current age would be reached by the
Prince of Wales in January 2045,
the Duke of Cambridge in August 2078,
and by Prince George in September 2109.

When the Prince of Wales turned 56,the Queen's reign
was still closer to its middle than to its eventual end.

When George V turned 40,Edward VII's reign was only
months from reaching its midpoint,when Edward VIII turned
40 George V's reign was less than 2 years from ending,
when George VI turned 40 Edward VIII's reign was just
under a year,and George V's just over a month,from ending.


-=-=-=-=-=-

Consider,if you would,the United Kingdom and Empire
as they were on September 28th 1881.

Queen Victoria,under 5 months past 62,was on the throne;
she was over five years from her Golden Jubilee,her Diamond Jubilee
would be ten years after that.The future Edward VII was 6 weeks
short of 40 (the current Prince of Wales is under 5 months from 74),
the future George V was under 4 months past 16(the Duke of Cambridge
is now 40--George V became Heir Apparent at 35 when all
his children were younger than Princess Charlotte is now),not yet
Duke of York,and not yet heir apparent to his father;nor was his elder
brother (who had over a decade to live) yet 18.
The future Archbishop of Canterbury who would crown King Edward was
Bishop of Exeter.The oldest British royal was George III's daughter-in-law
the Duchess of Cambridge (Augusta of Hesse-Cassel),born 1797 and with
over seven and a half years to live.

The Church of England dioceses of Birmingham,Blackburn,Bristol, Coventry,Chelmsford,Derby,Guildford,Leicester,Newcastle,Portsmouth,
St. Edmundsbury and Ipswich,Sheffield,and Southwark did not yet
exist...nor did those of Bradford and Wakefield,now abolished,
or that of Southwell,from which Derby would one day be severed.That of Liverpool was under a year and a half old.

Lloyd George,Macdonald,and Baldwin were teenagers,
Chamberlain was twelve and Churchill was six years old,
and no later Prime Minister(including Attlee)
had yet been born (nor had any person in the world alive after 1999).
Keir Hardie,who years later would found the original Scottish
Labour Party,then the Independent Labour Party,and then the Labour
Party proper,was aged twenty-five and would not be an MP for over
a decade.

William Gladstone (born 1809) was the only living person who had been
Prime Minister (years younger than his predecessors).His government
had not yet sought passage of the Representation of the People Act 1884
(which would for the first time enable most men to vote),which would
be followed by the Redistribution of Seats Act 1885 (which would establish
the norm of single-member constituencies) which would first come into
effect with the following election.(The secret ballot had been law
for nine years).
Women would not vote in a General Election for over thirty-seven years. Christopher Rice Mansel Talbot(born 1803),Father of the House of Commons,
had been a member since 1830...before any of the Reform Bills.(Charles
James Mahon,born 1800,had been a member discontinuously since then).

Lord Coleridge (born 1820) was Lord Chief Justice,and had been
the last Chief Justice of the Common Pleas (a position abolished
by the Judicature Act of 1873).The 1st Lord Esher(born 1815 or 1817,
sources disagree) had yet to become Master of the Rolls.The Royal
Courts of Justice building was under construction and today's Old
Bailey would not open for decades.

Many of the Colonies had yet to be colonized,Hong Kong was over a
decade from adding the New Territories.

Battleships that would be scrapped as obsolete in the reign of Edward VII
had yet to be laid down,nor had either HMS Victoria,which would sink in
an 1893 collision,or the ironclad HMS Camperdown,which would sink it.
Ships built with sailing rigs were still in the active fleet,
some with wooden hulls were still performing reserve and training functions, and it was years before HMS Temeraire would make port under sail alone
for the final time.

The Admirals of the Fleet included Sir George Sartorius(born
1790,a commander in 1812 and post-captain in 1814),and
Sir Provo Wallis (born 1791,a lieutenant 1808,and commander 1813);
Sartorius had been a midshipman on HMS Tonnant at Trafalgar in 1805
nearly 9 years before Francis Scott Key's visit to that ship led to
"The Star-Spangled Banner" being written,witnessed the surrender of Napoleon,commanded a fleet in the Portugese Civil War of the 1830s,
and risen through the admiral ranks starting in 1849;Wallis had
taken temporary command of HMS Shannon when it captured USS
Chesapeake in 1813.
The 1st Baron Strathnairn(born 1801) was a Field Marshal,
while Sir Richard Dacres(born 1799),the 3rd Earl of Lucan
(born 1800,a lieutenant colonel 1826),who had ordered the
Charge of the Light Brigade,and three men born in 1804
had yet to receive promotion to that rank.

The eldest Dukes included the 6th of Northumberland(b. 1810, great-great-great-grandfather of the 11th and the current 12th Duke)
the 2nd of Wellington(b. 1807,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather
of the present 9th Duke born 1945,an MP 1829 and army major 1830),
the 7th of Devonshire(b. 1808,great-great-great-grandfather of the
present 12th duke born 1944,he had first become an MP in 1829 and
a peer in 1834),the 5th of Buccleuch/7th of Queensberry(b. 1806,
succeeded in 1819,a Knight of the Garter since 1835,great-great-great- grandfather of the present 12th Duke),the 12th of Somerset(b. 1804,
second cousin of the great-great-great-grandfather of the current 19th Duke), and the 4th (and last) of Cleveland (born 1803).
The 1st Duke of Abercorn,so created in 1868,had succeeded to the
Marquessate thereof in 1818 and been a Knight of the Garter since 1844.
The 3rd Marquess of Donegall (born 1797) was alive and would be
succeeded by a younger brother born in 1799(the present peer is the great-great-great-grandson of their first cousin).
The 7th Earl of Shaftesbury(born 1801,an MP from 1826,great- great-great-grandfather of the present peer and his predecessor),the
3rd Earl Grey (born 1802,also an MP from 1826,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer and of his predecessor),and the 2nd Earl of Harrowby(born 1798,an MP from 1819,
a Lord of the Admiralty in 1827,great-great-great-grandfather of the septuagenarian present Earl) were among the Knights of the Garter.
The 1st Earl of Lovelace (born 1805) had over a decade to live,and
had been a Lord-Lieutenant since 1840.
The 3rd and 4th Earl of Mansfield and Mansfield(born 1806 and with
over 15 years to live) had been a Knight of the Thistle since 1843,
and had been an MP from 1830 to 1840,with a spell in Government 1834-5.
The 4th Earl of Arran(born 1801) had been a Knight of
St. Patrick since 1841 and been charge d'affaires in
Buenos Aires 1832-4.
Also among the Earls were the 6th Earl of Essex(born 1803),
and the 6th of Albemarle,born 1799,a veteran of the Battle of Waterloo.
The eldest of Earls were the 2nd Earl Mount Cashell,
born 1792,the 6th Earl of Buckinghamshire,
born 1793,and the 2nd of Stradbroke,born 1794,
commissioned in the Army in 1810,a Lieutenant 1814,
who missed Waterloo on account of a wound.
The Earl of Sandwich had held his title since 1818.
The 9th Viscount of Arbuthnott(born 1806) was alive,the
current peer is the 17th.
The 1st Viscount Portman (born 1799,first elected MP in 1823) was
alive,the present peer is the 10th.
The oldest Viscount,however,was the 1st and last of Eversley,born in 1794
and Speaker of the House of Commons 1839-57.
The senior Viscount was the 2nd Frankfort de Montmorency,
who had inherited his title in 1822.
Barons included the 3rd Baron Gardner,who had inherited that title
in 1815,the 2nd Baron Mostyn(born 1795,great-great-great-great-
grandfather of the present peer),the 2nd Baron Brougham and Vaux
(born 1795,great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer),
the 16th Baron Saye and Sele(born 1799,great-great-grandfather of
the 101-year-old present peer),the 1st Baron Cottesloe (born 1798,great-great-great-grandfather of the present peer),
and the 1st Lord Ebury,born 1801 and a Privy Counsellor since 1830,
who had over a decade to live;
the oldest peerage holder was Lady Sempill,born 1790 or possibly 1789.
The Lord Bishop of Chichester was Richard Durnford,born 1802,
and that of Llandaff Alfred Ollivant,born 1798.
Sir Moses Montefiore,born 1784,was the oldest baronet.
Sir Thomas Sabine Pasley had held his baronetcy since 1808.

Cardinal Manning (born 1808) was Catholic Archbishop of Westminster,
but Cardinal Newman(born 1801) was the oldest British cardinal.

Abroad Alexander III had been Emperor and Tsar-Autocrat of all
the Russias for less than a year,and Leo XIII(born 1810) had
more than five-sixths of his time as Pope ahead of him.
Slavery was still legal in Brazil and would be for years.
Wilhelm I,grandfather of the World War I Kaiser,born in 1797,
still ruled Germany.Bernhard II,though abdicated from Saxe-
Meiningen,was still alive and had become Duke during the
Holy Roman Empire.

Consider all the changes,natural and manmade,visited upon the world
in all the time since.

And now consider this...Queen Elizabeth II has been on the Throne
for MOST of that time since then.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.talk.royalty, alt.politics.british, alt.society.monarchy

In article <t8tkvj$31j$1@reader1.panix.com>,
Louis Epstein <le@top.put.com> wrote:

A revision for the 40th birthday of the Duke of Cambridge,
which also marks two months after the Queen turned 96.

The Queen's current age would be reached by the
Prince of Wales in January 2045,
the Duke of Cambridge in August 2078,
and by Prince George in September 2109.

When the Prince of Wales turned 56,the Queen's reign
was still closer to its middle than to its eventual end.

When George V turned 40,Edward VII's reign was only
months from reaching its midpoint,when Edward VIII turned
40 George V's reign was less than 2 years from ending,
when George VI turned 40 Edward VIII's reign was just
under a year,and George V's just over a month,from ending.

-=-=-=-=-=-

Consider,if you would,the United Kingdom and Empire
as they were on September 28th 1881.

Queen Victoria,under 5 months past 62,was on the throne;
she was over five years from her Golden Jubilee,her Diamond Jubilee
would be ten years after that.The future Edward VII was 6 weeks
short of 40 (the current Prince of Wales is under 5 months from 74),
the future George V was under 4 months past 16(the Duke of Cambridge
is now 40--George V became Heir Apparent at 35 when all
his children were younger than Princess Charlotte is now),not yet
Duke of York,and not yet heir apparent to his father;nor was his elder >brother (who had over a decade to live) yet 18.
The future Archbishop of Canterbury who would crown King Edward was
Bishop of Exeter.The oldest British royal was George III's daughter-in-law >the Duchess of Cambridge (Augusta of Hesse-Cassel),born 1797 and with
over seven and a half years to live.

The Church of England dioceses of Birmingham,Blackburn,Bristol, >Coventry,Chelmsford,Derby,Guildford,Leicester,Newcastle,Portsmouth,
St. Edmundsbury and Ipswich,Sheffield,and Southwark did not yet
exist...nor did those of Bradford and Wakefield,now abolished,
or that of Southwell,from which Derby would one day be severed.That of >Liverpool was under a year and a half old.

Lloyd George,Macdonald,and Baldwin were teenagers,
Chamberlain was twelve and Churchill was six years old,
and no later Prime Minister(including Attlee)
had yet been born (nor had any person in the world alive after 1999).
Keir Hardie,who years later would found the original Scottish
Labour Party,then the Independent Labour Party,and then the Labour
Party proper,was aged twenty-five and would not be an MP for over
a decade.

William Gladstone (born 1809) was the only living person who had been
Prime Minister (years younger than his predecessors).His government
had not yet sought passage of the Representation of the People Act 1884 >(which would for the first time enable most men to vote),which would
be followed by the Redistribution of Seats Act 1885 (which would establish >the norm of single-member constituencies) which would first come into
effect with the following election.(The secret ballot had been law
for nine years).
Women would not vote in a General Election for over thirty-seven years. >Christopher Rice Mansel Talbot(born 1803),Father of the House of Commons,
had been a member since 1830...before any of the Reform Bills.(Charles
James Mahon,born 1800,had been a member discontinuously since then).

Lord Coleridge (born 1820) was Lord Chief Justice,and had been
the last Chief Justice of the Common Pleas (a position abolished
by the Judicature Act of 1873).The 1st Lord Esher(born 1815 or 1817,
sources disagree) had yet to become Master of the Rolls.The Royal
Courts of Justice building was under construction and today's Old
Bailey would not open for decades.

Many of the Colonies had yet to be colonized,Hong Kong was over a
decade from adding the New Territories.

Battleships that would be scrapped as obsolete in the reign of Edward VII
had yet to be laid down,nor had either HMS Victoria,which would sink in
an 1893 collision,or the ironclad HMS Camperdown,which would sink it.
Ships built with sailing rigs were still in the active fleet,
some with wooden hulls were still performing reserve and training functions, >and it was years before HMS Temeraire would make port under sail alone
for the final time.

The Admirals of the Fleet included Sir George Sartorius(born
1790,a commander in 1812 and post-captain in 1814),and
Sir Provo Wallis (born 1791,a lieutenant 1808,and commander 1813);
Sartorius had been a midshipman on HMS Tonnant at Trafalgar in 1805
nearly 9 years before Francis Scott Key's visit to that ship led to
"The Star-Spangled Banner" being written,witnessed the surrender of >Napoleon,commanded a fleet in the Portugese Civil War of the 1830s,
and risen through the admiral ranks starting in 1849;Wallis had
taken temporary command of HMS Shannon when it captured USS
Chesapeake in 1813.
The 1st Baron Strathnairn(born 1801) was a Field Marshal,
while Sir Richard Dacres(born 1799),the 3rd Earl of Lucan
(born 1800,a lieutenant colonel 1826),who had ordered the
Charge of the Light Brigade,and three men born in 1804
had yet to receive promotion to that rank.

The eldest Dukes included the 6th of Northumberland(b. 1810, >great-great-great-grandfather of the 11th and the current 12th Duke)
the 2nd of Wellington(b. 1807,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather
of the present 9th Duke born 1945,an MP 1829 and army major 1830),
the 7th of Devonshire(b. 1808,great-great-great-grandfather of the
present 12th duke born 1944,he had first become an MP in 1829 and
a peer in 1834),the 5th of Buccleuch/7th of Queensberry(b. 1806,
succeeded in 1819,a Knight of the Garter since 1835,great-great-great- >grandfather of the present 12th Duke),the 12th of Somerset(b. 1804,
second cousin of the great-great-great-grandfather of the current 19th Duke), >and the 4th (and last) of Cleveland (born 1803).
The 1st Duke of Abercorn,so created in 1868,had succeeded to the
Marquessate thereof in 1818 and been a Knight of the Garter since 1844.
The 3rd Marquess of Donegall (born 1797) was alive and would be
succeeded by a younger brother born in 1799(the present peer is the >great-great-great-grandson of their first cousin).
The 7th Earl of Shaftesbury(born 1801,an MP from 1826,great- >great-great-grandfather of the present peer and his predecessor),the
3rd Earl Grey (born 1802,also an MP from 1826,elder brother of the >great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer and of his >predecessor),and the 2nd Earl of Harrowby(born 1798,an MP from 1819,
a Lord of the Admiralty in 1827,great-great-great-grandfather of the >septuagenarian present Earl) were among the Knights of the Garter.
The 1st Earl of Lovelace (born 1805) had over a decade to live,and
had been a Lord-Lieutenant since 1840.
The 3rd and 4th Earl of Mansfield and Mansfield(born 1806 and with
over 15 years to live) had been a Knight of the Thistle since 1843,
and had been an MP from 1830 to 1840,with a spell in Government 1834-5.
The 4th Earl of Arran(born 1801) had been a Knight of
St. Patrick since 1841 and been charge d'affaires in
Buenos Aires 1832-4.
Also among the Earls were the 6th Earl of Essex(born 1803),
and the 6th of Albemarle,born 1799,a veteran of the Battle of Waterloo.
The eldest of Earls were the 2nd Earl Mount Cashell,
born 1792,the 6th Earl of Buckinghamshire,
born 1793,and the 2nd of Stradbroke,born 1794,
commissioned in the Army in 1810,a Lieutenant 1814,
who missed Waterloo on account of a wound.
The Earl of Sandwich had held his title since 1818.
The 9th Viscount of Arbuthnott(born 1806) was alive,the
current peer is the 17th.
The 1st Viscount Portman (born 1799,first elected MP in 1823) was
alive,the present peer is the 10th.
The oldest Viscount,however,was the 1st and last of Eversley,born in 1794
and Speaker of the House of Commons 1839-57.
The senior Viscount was the 2nd Frankfort de Montmorency,
who had inherited his title in 1822.
Barons included the 3rd Baron Gardner,who had inherited that title
in 1815,the 2nd Baron Mostyn(born 1795,great-great-great-great-
grandfather of the present peer),the 2nd Baron Brougham and Vaux
(born 1795,great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer),
the 16th Baron Saye and Sele(born 1799,great-great-grandfather of
the 101-year-old present peer),the 1st Baron Cottesloe (born >1798,great-great-great-grandfather of the present peer),
and the 1st Lord Ebury,born 1801 and a Privy Counsellor since 1830,
who had over a decade to live;
the oldest peerage holder was Lady Sempill,born 1790 or possibly 1789.
The Lord Bishop of Chichester was Richard Durnford,born 1802,
and that of Llandaff Alfred Ollivant,born 1798.
Sir Moses Montefiore,born 1784,was the oldest baronet.
Sir Thomas Sabine Pasley had held his baronetcy since 1808.

Cardinal Manning (born 1808) was Catholic Archbishop of Westminster,
but Cardinal Newman(born 1801) was the oldest British cardinal.

Abroad Alexander III had been Emperor and Tsar-Autocrat of all
the Russias for less than a year,and Leo XIII(born 1810) had
more than five-sixths of his time as Pope ahead of him.
Slavery was still legal in Brazil and would be for years.
Wilhelm I,grandfather of the World War I Kaiser,born in 1797,
still ruled Germany.Bernhard II,though abdicated from Saxe-
Meiningen,was still alive and had become Duke during the
Holy Roman Empire.

Consider all the changes,natural and manmade,visited upon the world
in all the time since.

And now consider this...Queen Elizabeth II has been on the Throne
for MOST of that time since then.

God save the Queen. Let the Republics burn in Hell!
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b Saying the right words is a poor substitute for having a right heart. -unknown Beware https://mindspring.com

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.talk.royalty, alt.politics.british, alt.society.monarchy

In alt.talk.royalty The Doctor <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:

In article <t8tkvj$31j$1@reader1.panix.com>,
Louis Epstein <le@top.put.com> wrote:

A revision for the 40th birthday of the Duke of Cambridge,
which also marks two months after the Queen turned 96.

The Queen's current age would be reached by the
Prince of Wales in January 2045,
the Duke of Cambridge in August 2078,
and by Prince George in September 2109.

When the Prince of Wales turned 56,the Queen's reign
was still closer to its middle than to its eventual end.

When George V turned 40,Edward VII's reign was only
months from reaching its midpoint,when Edward VIII turned
40 George V's reign was less than 2 years from ending,
when George VI turned 40 Edward VIII's reign was just
under a year,and George V's just over a month,from ending.


-=-=-=-=-=-

Consider,if you would,the United Kingdom and Empire
as they were on September 28th 1881.

Queen Victoria,under 5 months past 62,was on the throne;
she was over five years from her Golden Jubilee,her Diamond Jubilee
would be ten years after that.The future Edward VII was 6 weeks
short of 40 (the current Prince of Wales is under 5 months from 74),
the future George V was under 4 months past 16(the Duke of Cambridge
is now 40--George V became Heir Apparent at 35 when all
his children were younger than Princess Charlotte is now),not yet
Duke of York,and not yet heir apparent to his father;nor was his elder >>brother (who had over a decade to live) yet 18.
The future Archbishop of Canterbury who would crown King Edward was
Bishop of Exeter.The oldest British royal was George III's daughter-in-law >>the Duchess of Cambridge (Augusta of Hesse-Cassel),born 1797 and with
over seven and a half years to live.

The Church of England dioceses of Birmingham,Blackburn,Bristol, >>Coventry,Chelmsford,Derby,Guildford,Leicester,Newcastle,Portsmouth,
St. Edmundsbury and Ipswich,Sheffield,and Southwark did not yet
exist...nor did those of Bradford and Wakefield,now abolished,
or that of Southwell,from which Derby would one day be severed.That of >>Liverpool was under a year and a half old.

Lloyd George,Macdonald,and Baldwin were teenagers,
Chamberlain was twelve and Churchill was six years old,
and no later Prime Minister(including Attlee)
had yet been born (nor had any person in the world alive after 1999).
Keir Hardie,who years later would found the original Scottish
Labour Party,then the Independent Labour Party,and then the Labour
Party proper,was aged twenty-five and would not be an MP for over
a decade.

William Gladstone (born 1809) was the only living person who had been
Prime Minister (years younger than his predecessors).His government
had not yet sought passage of the Representation of the People Act 1884 >>(which would for the first time enable most men to vote),which would
be followed by the Redistribution of Seats Act 1885 (which would establish >>the norm of single-member constituencies) which would first come into >>effect with the following election.(The secret ballot had been law
for nine years).
Women would not vote in a General Election for over thirty-seven years. >>Christopher Rice Mansel Talbot(born 1803),Father of the House of Commons, >>had been a member since 1830...before any of the Reform Bills.(Charles >>James Mahon,born 1800,had been a member discontinuously since then).

Lord Coleridge (born 1820) was Lord Chief Justice,and had been
the last Chief Justice of the Common Pleas (a position abolished
by the Judicature Act of 1873).The 1st Lord Esher(born 1815 or 1817, >>sources disagree) had yet to become Master of the Rolls.The Royal
Courts of Justice building was under construction and today's Old
Bailey would not open for decades.

Many of the Colonies had yet to be colonized,Hong Kong was over a
decade from adding the New Territories.

Battleships that would be scrapped as obsolete in the reign of Edward VII >>had yet to be laid down,nor had either HMS Victoria,which would sink in
an 1893 collision,or the ironclad HMS Camperdown,which would sink it.
Ships built with sailing rigs were still in the active fleet,
some with wooden hulls were still performing reserve and training functions, >>and it was years before HMS Temeraire would make port under sail alone
for the final time.

The Admirals of the Fleet included Sir George Sartorius(born
1790,a commander in 1812 and post-captain in 1814),and
Sir Provo Wallis (born 1791,a lieutenant 1808,and commander 1813); >>Sartorius had been a midshipman on HMS Tonnant at Trafalgar in 1805
nearly 9 years before Francis Scott Key's visit to that ship led to
"The Star-Spangled Banner" being written,witnessed the surrender of >>Napoleon,commanded a fleet in the Portugese Civil War of the 1830s,
and risen through the admiral ranks starting in 1849;Wallis had
taken temporary command of HMS Shannon when it captured USS
Chesapeake in 1813.
The 1st Baron Strathnairn(born 1801) was a Field Marshal,
while Sir Richard Dacres(born 1799),the 3rd Earl of Lucan
(born 1800,a lieutenant colonel 1826),who had ordered the
Charge of the Light Brigade,and three men born in 1804
had yet to receive promotion to that rank.

The eldest Dukes included the 6th of Northumberland(b. 1810, >>great-great-great-grandfather of the 11th and the current 12th Duke)
the 2nd of Wellington(b. 1807,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather >>of the present 9th Duke born 1945,an MP 1829 and army major 1830),
the 7th of Devonshire(b. 1808,great-great-great-grandfather of the
present 12th duke born 1944,he had first become an MP in 1829 and
a peer in 1834),the 5th of Buccleuch/7th of Queensberry(b. 1806,
succeeded in 1819,a Knight of the Garter since 1835,great-great-great- >>grandfather of the present 12th Duke),the 12th of Somerset(b. 1804,
second cousin of the great-great-great-grandfather of the current 19th Duke), >>and the 4th (and last) of Cleveland (born 1803).
The 1st Duke of Abercorn,so created in 1868,had succeeded to the >>Marquessate thereof in 1818 and been a Knight of the Garter since 1844.
The 3rd Marquess of Donegall (born 1797) was alive and would be
succeeded by a younger brother born in 1799(the present peer is the >>great-great-great-grandson of their first cousin).
The 7th Earl of Shaftesbury(born 1801,an MP from 1826,great- >>great-great-grandfather of the present peer and his predecessor),the
3rd Earl Grey (born 1802,also an MP from 1826,elder brother of the >>great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer and of his >>predecessor),and the 2nd Earl of Harrowby(born 1798,an MP from 1819,
a Lord of the Admiralty in 1827,great-great-great-grandfather of the >>septuagenarian present Earl) were among the Knights of the Garter.
The 1st Earl of Lovelace (born 1805) had over a decade to live,and
had been a Lord-Lieutenant since 1840.
The 3rd and 4th Earl of Mansfield and Mansfield(born 1806 and with
over 15 years to live) had been a Knight of the Thistle since 1843,
and had been an MP from 1830 to 1840,with a spell in Government 1834-5.
The 4th Earl of Arran(born 1801) had been a Knight of
St. Patrick since 1841 and been charge d'affaires in
Buenos Aires 1832-4.
Also among the Earls were the 6th Earl of Essex(born 1803),
and the 6th of Albemarle,born 1799,a veteran of the Battle of Waterloo.
The eldest of Earls were the 2nd Earl Mount Cashell,
born 1792,the 6th Earl of Buckinghamshire,
born 1793,and the 2nd of Stradbroke,born 1794,
commissioned in the Army in 1810,a Lieutenant 1814,
who missed Waterloo on account of a wound.
The Earl of Sandwich had held his title since 1818.
The 9th Viscount of Arbuthnott(born 1806) was alive,the
current peer is the 17th.
The 1st Viscount Portman (born 1799,first elected MP in 1823) was
alive,the present peer is the 10th.
The oldest Viscount,however,was the 1st and last of Eversley,born in 1794 >>and Speaker of the House of Commons 1839-57.
The senior Viscount was the 2nd Frankfort de Montmorency,
who had inherited his title in 1822.
Barons included the 3rd Baron Gardner,who had inherited that title
in 1815,the 2nd Baron Mostyn(born 1795,great-great-great-great-
grandfather of the present peer),the 2nd Baron Brougham and Vaux
(born 1795,great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer),
the 16th Baron Saye and Sele(born 1799,great-great-grandfather of
the 101-year-old present peer),the 1st Baron Cottesloe (born >>1798,great-great-great-grandfather of the present peer),
and the 1st Lord Ebury,born 1801 and a Privy Counsellor since 1830,
who had over a decade to live;
the oldest peerage holder was Lady Sempill,born 1790 or possibly 1789.
The Lord Bishop of Chichester was Richard Durnford,born 1802,
and that of Llandaff Alfred Ollivant,born 1798.
Sir Moses Montefiore,born 1784,was the oldest baronet.
Sir Thomas Sabine Pasley had held his baronetcy since 1808.

Cardinal Manning (born 1808) was Catholic Archbishop of Westminster,
but Cardinal Newman(born 1801) was the oldest British cardinal.

Abroad Alexander III had been Emperor and Tsar-Autocrat of all
the Russias for less than a year,and Leo XIII(born 1810) had
more than five-sixths of his time as Pope ahead of him.
Slavery was still legal in Brazil and would be for years.
Wilhelm I,grandfather of the World War I Kaiser,born in 1797,
still ruled Germany.Bernhard II,though abdicated from Saxe-
Meiningen,was still alive and had become Duke during the
Holy Roman Empire.

Consider all the changes,natural and manmade,visited upon the world
in all the time since.

And now consider this...Queen Elizabeth II has been on the Throne
for MOST of that time since then.

God save the Queen. Let the Republics burn in Hell!

(And shame on Barbados).

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.talk.royalty, alt.politics.british, alt.society.monarchy

In article <tatunq$o0c$1@reader2.panix.com>,
Louis Epstein <le@top.put.com> wrote:

In alt.talk.royalty The Doctor <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:

In article <t8tkvj$31j$1@reader1.panix.com>,
Louis Epstein <le@top.put.com> wrote:

A revision for the 40th birthday of the Duke of Cambridge,
which also marks two months after the Queen turned 96.

The Queen's current age would be reached by the
Prince of Wales in January 2045,
the Duke of Cambridge in August 2078,
and by Prince George in September 2109.

When the Prince of Wales turned 56,the Queen's reign
was still closer to its middle than to its eventual end.

When George V turned 40,Edward VII's reign was only
months from reaching its midpoint,when Edward VIII turned
40 George V's reign was less than 2 years from ending,
when George VI turned 40 Edward VIII's reign was just
under a year,and George V's just over a month,from ending.


-=-=-=-=-=-

Consider,if you would,the United Kingdom and Empire
as they were on September 28th 1881.

Queen Victoria,under 5 months past 62,was on the throne;
she was over five years from her Golden Jubilee,her Diamond Jubilee
would be ten years after that.The future Edward VII was 6 weeks
short of 40 (the current Prince of Wales is under 5 months from 74),
the future George V was under 4 months past 16(the Duke of Cambridge
is now 40--George V became Heir Apparent at 35 when all
his children were younger than Princess Charlotte is now),not yet
Duke of York,and not yet heir apparent to his father;nor was his elder >>>brother (who had over a decade to live) yet 18.
The future Archbishop of Canterbury who would crown King Edward was >>>Bishop of Exeter.The oldest British royal was George III's daughter-in-law >>>the Duchess of Cambridge (Augusta of Hesse-Cassel),born 1797 and with >>>over seven and a half years to live.

The Church of England dioceses of Birmingham,Blackburn,Bristol, >>>Coventry,Chelmsford,Derby,Guildford,Leicester,Newcastle,Portsmouth,
St. Edmundsbury and Ipswich,Sheffield,and Southwark did not yet >>>exist...nor did those of Bradford and Wakefield,now abolished,
or that of Southwell,from which Derby would one day be severed.That of >>>Liverpool was under a year and a half old.

Lloyd George,Macdonald,and Baldwin were teenagers,
Chamberlain was twelve and Churchill was six years old,
and no later Prime Minister(including Attlee)
had yet been born (nor had any person in the world alive after 1999). >>>Keir Hardie,who years later would found the original Scottish
Labour Party,then the Independent Labour Party,and then the Labour
Party proper,was aged twenty-five and would not be an MP for over
a decade.

William Gladstone (born 1809) was the only living person who had been >>>Prime Minister (years younger than his predecessors).His government
had not yet sought passage of the Representation of the People Act 1884 >>>(which would for the first time enable most men to vote),which would
be followed by the Redistribution of Seats Act 1885 (which would establish >>>the norm of single-member constituencies) which would first come into >>>effect with the following election.(The secret ballot had been law
for nine years).
Women would not vote in a General Election for over thirty-seven years. >>>Christopher Rice Mansel Talbot(born 1803),Father of the House of Commons, >>>had been a member since 1830...before any of the Reform Bills.(Charles >>>James Mahon,born 1800,had been a member discontinuously since then).

Lord Coleridge (born 1820) was Lord Chief Justice,and had been
the last Chief Justice of the Common Pleas (a position abolished
by the Judicature Act of 1873).The 1st Lord Esher(born 1815 or 1817, >>>sources disagree) had yet to become Master of the Rolls.The Royal
Courts of Justice building was under construction and today's Old
Bailey would not open for decades.

Many of the Colonies had yet to be colonized,Hong Kong was over a
decade from adding the New Territories.

Battleships that would be scrapped as obsolete in the reign of Edward VII >>>had yet to be laid down,nor had either HMS Victoria,which would sink in >>>an 1893 collision,or the ironclad HMS Camperdown,which would sink it. >>>Ships built with sailing rigs were still in the active fleet,
some with wooden hulls were still performing reserve and training functions, >>>and it was years before HMS Temeraire would make port under sail alone >>>for the final time.

The Admirals of the Fleet included Sir George Sartorius(born
1790,a commander in 1812 and post-captain in 1814),and
Sir Provo Wallis (born 1791,a lieutenant 1808,and commander 1813); >>>Sartorius had been a midshipman on HMS Tonnant at Trafalgar in 1805 >>>nearly 9 years before Francis Scott Key's visit to that ship led to
"The Star-Spangled Banner" being written,witnessed the surrender of >>>Napoleon,commanded a fleet in the Portugese Civil War of the 1830s,
and risen through the admiral ranks starting in 1849;Wallis had
taken temporary command of HMS Shannon when it captured USS
Chesapeake in 1813.
The 1st Baron Strathnairn(born 1801) was a Field Marshal,
while Sir Richard Dacres(born 1799),the 3rd Earl of Lucan
(born 1800,a lieutenant colonel 1826),who had ordered the
Charge of the Light Brigade,and three men born in 1804
had yet to receive promotion to that rank.

The eldest Dukes included the 6th of Northumberland(b. 1810, >>>great-great-great-grandfather of the 11th and the current 12th Duke)
the 2nd of Wellington(b. 1807,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather >>>of the present 9th Duke born 1945,an MP 1829 and army major 1830),
the 7th of Devonshire(b. 1808,great-great-great-grandfather of the >>>present 12th duke born 1944,he had first become an MP in 1829 and
a peer in 1834),the 5th of Buccleuch/7th of Queensberry(b. 1806, >>>succeeded in 1819,a Knight of the Garter since 1835,great-great-great- >>>grandfather of the present 12th Duke),the 12th of Somerset(b. 1804, >>>second cousin of the great-great-great-grandfather of the current 19th Duke),
and the 4th (and last) of Cleveland (born 1803).
The 1st Duke of Abercorn,so created in 1868,had succeeded to the >>>Marquessate thereof in 1818 and been a Knight of the Garter since 1844. >>>The 3rd Marquess of Donegall (born 1797) was alive and would be
succeeded by a younger brother born in 1799(the present peer is the >>>great-great-great-grandson of their first cousin).
The 7th Earl of Shaftesbury(born 1801,an MP from 1826,great- >>>great-great-grandfather of the present peer and his predecessor),the
3rd Earl Grey (born 1802,also an MP from 1826,elder brother of the >>>great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer and of his >>>predecessor),and the 2nd Earl of Harrowby(born 1798,an MP from 1819,
a Lord of the Admiralty in 1827,great-great-great-grandfather of the >>>septuagenarian present Earl) were among the Knights of the Garter.
The 1st Earl of Lovelace (born 1805) had over a decade to live,and
had been a Lord-Lieutenant since 1840.
The 3rd and 4th Earl of Mansfield and Mansfield(born 1806 and with
over 15 years to live) had been a Knight of the Thistle since 1843,
and had been an MP from 1830 to 1840,with a spell in Government 1834-5. >>>The 4th Earl of Arran(born 1801) had been a Knight of
St. Patrick since 1841 and been charge d'affaires in
Buenos Aires 1832-4.
Also among the Earls were the 6th Earl of Essex(born 1803),
and the 6th of Albemarle,born 1799,a veteran of the Battle of Waterloo. >>>The eldest of Earls were the 2nd Earl Mount Cashell,
born 1792,the 6th Earl of Buckinghamshire,
born 1793,and the 2nd of Stradbroke,born 1794,
commissioned in the Army in 1810,a Lieutenant 1814,
who missed Waterloo on account of a wound.
The Earl of Sandwich had held his title since 1818.
The 9th Viscount of Arbuthnott(born 1806) was alive,the
current peer is the 17th.
The 1st Viscount Portman (born 1799,first elected MP in 1823) was >>>alive,the present peer is the 10th.
The oldest Viscount,however,was the 1st and last of Eversley,born in 1794 >>>and Speaker of the House of Commons 1839-57.
The senior Viscount was the 2nd Frankfort de Montmorency,
who had inherited his title in 1822.
Barons included the 3rd Baron Gardner,who had inherited that title
in 1815,the 2nd Baron Mostyn(born 1795,great-great-great-great- >>>grandfather of the present peer),the 2nd Baron Brougham and Vaux
(born 1795,great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer),
the 16th Baron Saye and Sele(born 1799,great-great-grandfather of
the 101-year-old present peer),the 1st Baron Cottesloe (born >>>1798,great-great-great-grandfather of the present peer),
and the 1st Lord Ebury,born 1801 and a Privy Counsellor since 1830,
who had over a decade to live;
the oldest peerage holder was Lady Sempill,born 1790 or possibly 1789. >>>The Lord Bishop of Chichester was Richard Durnford,born 1802,
and that of Llandaff Alfred Ollivant,born 1798.
Sir Moses Montefiore,born 1784,was the oldest baronet.
Sir Thomas Sabine Pasley had held his baronetcy since 1808.

Cardinal Manning (born 1808) was Catholic Archbishop of Westminster,
but Cardinal Newman(born 1801) was the oldest British cardinal.

Abroad Alexander III had been Emperor and Tsar-Autocrat of all
the Russias for less than a year,and Leo XIII(born 1810) had
more than five-sixths of his time as Pope ahead of him.
Slavery was still legal in Brazil and would be for years.
Wilhelm I,grandfather of the World War I Kaiser,born in 1797,
still ruled Germany.Bernhard II,though abdicated from Saxe-
Meiningen,was still alive and had become Duke during the
Holy Roman Empire.

Consider all the changes,natural and manmade,visited upon the world
in all the time since.

And now consider this...Queen Elizabeth II has been on the Throne
for MOST of that time since then.

God save the Queen. Let the Republics burn in Hell!

(And shame on Barbados).

May a hurricane flood out Guyana, Trinidad, Tobago , Barbados and Dominica!

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b Money means possibility, but does not guarantee good or bad. -unknown Beware https://mindspring.com

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.talk.royalty, alt.politics.british, alt.society.monarchy

A revision for the 9th birthday of
Prince George of Cambridge...of course the
oldest-ever third-direct-heir.In the coming
year HRH should pass the age at which his
grandfather was created Prince of Wales
and the record set by Princess Alexandra
of Fife as oldest grandchild of a Prince of
Wales.
He would not surpass the Queen's current age
until October 2109,the age at death of the
late Duke of Edinburgh until May 2113,or
that of the late Queen Mother until March 2115.

The midpoint of the current reign is at the
end of April 1987;the middle third begins in
August 1975,and more than a week of December
2004 has become closer to the midpoint than
the present.

The next Prime Minister will be the first born
after the death of Attlee.
-=-=-=-=-=-

Consider,if you would,the United Kingdom and Empire
as they were on August 26th 1881.

Queen Victoria,under 4 months past 62,was on the throne;
she was over five years from her Golden Jubilee,her Diamond Jubilee
would be ten years after that.The future Edward VII was more than 2
months short of 40 (the current Prince of Wales is under 4 months from 74),
the future George V was under 3 months past 16(the Duke of Cambridge is
over a month past 40--George V became Heir Apparent at 35 when all
his children were younger than Princess Charlotte is now),not yet
Duke of York,and not yet heir apparent to his father;nor was his elder
brother (who had over a decade to live) yet 18.
The future Archbishop of Canterbury who would crown King Edward was
Bishop of Exeter.The oldest British royal was George III's daughter-in-law
the Duchess of Cambridge (Augusta of Hesse-Cassel),born 1797 and with
over seven and a half years to live.

The Church of England dioceses of Birmingham,Blackburn,Bristol, Coventry,Chelmsford,Derby,Guildford,Leicester,Newcastle,Portsmouth,
St. Edmundsbury and Ipswich,Sheffield,and Southwark did not yet
exist...nor did those of Bradford and Wakefield,now abolished,
or that of Southwell,from which Derby would one day be severed.That of Liverpool was under a year and a half old.

Lloyd George,Macdonald,and Baldwin were teenagers,
Chamberlain was twelve and Churchill was six years old,
and no later Prime Minister(including Attlee)
had yet been born (nor had any person in the world alive after 1999).
Keir Hardie,who years later would found the original Scottish
Labour Party,then the Independent Labour Party,and then the Labour
Party proper,was aged twenty-five and would not be an MP for over
a decade.

William Gladstone (born 1809) was the only living person who had been
Prime Minister (years younger than his predecessors).His government
had not yet sought passage of the Representation of the People Act 1884
(which would for the first time enable most men to vote),which would
be followed by the Redistribution of Seats Act 1885 (which would establish
the norm of single-member constituencies) which would first come into
effect with the following election.(The secret ballot had been law
for nine years).
Women would not vote in a General Election for over thirty-seven years. Christopher Rice Mansel Talbot(born 1803),Father of the House of Commons,
had been a member since 1830...before any of the Reform Bills.(Charles
James Mahon,born 1800,had been a member discontinuously since then).

Lord Coleridge (born 1820) was Lord Chief Justice,and had been
the last Chief Justice of the Common Pleas (a position abolished
by the Judicature Act of 1873).The 1st Lord Esher(born 1815 or 1817,
sources disagree) had yet to become Master of the Rolls.The Royal
Courts of Justice building was under construction and today's Old
Bailey would not open for decades.

Many of the Colonies had yet to be colonized,Hong Kong was over a
decade from adding the New Territories.

Battleships that would be scrapped as obsolete in the reign of Edward VII
had yet to be laid down,nor had either HMS Victoria,which would sink in
an 1893 collision,or the ironclad HMS Camperdown,which would sink it.
Ships built with sailing rigs were still in the active fleet,
some with wooden hulls were still performing reserve and training functions, and it was years before HMS Temeraire would make port under sail alone
for the final time.

The Admirals of the Fleet included Sir George Sartorius(born
1790,a commander in 1812 and post-captain in 1814),and
Sir Provo Wallis (born 1791,a lieutenant 1808,and commander 1813);
Sartorius had been a midshipman on HMS Tonnant at Trafalgar in 1805
nearly 9 years before Francis Scott Key's visit to that ship led to
"The Star-Spangled Banner" being written,witnessed the surrender of Napoleon,commanded a fleet in the Portugese Civil War of the 1830s,
and risen through the admiral ranks starting in 1849;Wallis had
taken temporary command of HMS Shannon when it captured USS
Chesapeake in 1813.
The 1st Baron Strathnairn(born 1801) was a Field Marshal,
while Sir Richard Dacres(born 1799),the 3rd Earl of Lucan
(born 1800,a lieutenant colonel 1826),who had ordered the
Charge of the Light Brigade,and three men born in 1804
had yet to receive promotion to that rank.

The eldest Dukes included the 6th of Northumberland(b. 1810, great-great-great-grandfather of the 11th and the current 12th Duke)
the 2nd of Wellington(b. 1807,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather
of the present 9th Duke born 1945,an MP 1829 and army major 1830),
the 7th of Devonshire(b. 1808,great-great-great-grandfather of the
present 12th duke born 1944,he had first become an MP in 1829 and
a peer in 1834),the 5th of Buccleuch/7th of Queensberry(b. 1806,
succeeded in 1819,a Knight of the Garter since 1835,great-great-great- grandfather of the present 12th Duke),the 12th of Somerset(b. 1804,
second cousin of the great-great-great-grandfather of the current 19th Duke), and the 4th (and last) of Cleveland (born 1803).
The 1st Duke of Abercorn,so created in 1868,had succeeded to the
Marquessate thereof in 1818 and been a Knight of the Garter since 1844.
The 3rd Marquess of Donegall (born 1797) was alive and would be
succeeded by a younger brother born in 1799(the present peer is the great-great-great-grandson of their first cousin).
The 7th Earl of Shaftesbury(born 1801,an MP from 1826,great- great-great-grandfather of the present peer and his predecessor),the
3rd Earl Grey (born 1802,also an MP from 1826,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer and of his predecessor),and the 2nd Earl of Harrowby(born 1798,an MP from 1819,
a Lord of the Admiralty in 1827,great-great-great-grandfather of the septuagenarian present Earl) were among the Knights of the Garter.
The 1st Earl of Lovelace (born 1805) had over a decade to live,and
had been a Lord-Lieutenant since 1840.
The 3rd and 4th Earl of Mansfield and Mansfield(born 1806 and with
over 15 years to live) had been a Knight of the Thistle since 1843,
and had been an MP from 1830 to 1840,with a spell in Government 1834-5.
The 4th Earl of Arran(born 1801) had been a Knight of
St. Patrick since 1841 and been charge d'affaires in
Buenos Aires 1832-4.
Also among the Earls were the 6th Earl of Essex(born 1803),
and the 6th of Albemarle,born 1799,a veteran of the Battle of Waterloo.
The eldest of Earls were the 2nd Earl Mount Cashell,
born 1792,the 6th Earl of Buckinghamshire,
born 1793,and the 2nd of Stradbroke,born 1794,
commissioned in the Army in 1810,a Lieutenant 1814,
who missed Waterloo on account of a wound.
The Earl of Sandwich had held his title since 1818.
The 9th Viscount of Arbuthnott(born 1806) was alive,the
current peer is the 17th.
The 1st Viscount Portman (born 1799,first elected MP in 1823) was
alive,the present peer is the 10th.
The oldest Viscount,however,was the 1st and last of Eversley,born in 1794
and Speaker of the House of Commons 1839-57.
The senior Viscount was the 2nd Frankfort de Montmorency,
who had inherited his title in 1822.
Barons included the 3rd Baron Gardner,who had inherited that title
in 1815,the 2nd Baron Mostyn(born 1795,great-great-great-great-
grandfather of the present peer),the 2nd Baron Brougham and Vaux
(born 1795,great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer),
the 16th Baron Saye and Sele(born 1799,great-great-grandfather of
the 101-year-old present peer),the 1st Baron Cottesloe (born 1798,great-great-great-grandfather of the present peer),
and the 1st Lord Ebury,born 1801 and a Privy Counsellor since 1830,
who had over a decade to live;
the oldest peerage holder was Lady Sempill,born 1790 or possibly 1789.
The Lord Bishop of Chichester was Richard Durnford,born 1802,
and that of Llandaff Alfred Ollivant,born 1798.
Sir Moses Montefiore,born 1784,was the oldest baronet.
Sir Thomas Sabine Pasley had held his baronetcy since 1808.

Cardinal Manning (born 1808) was Catholic Archbishop of Westminster,
but Cardinal Newman(born 1801) was the oldest British cardinal.

Abroad Alexander III had been Emperor and Tsar-Autocrat of all
the Russias for less than six months,and Leo XIII(born 1810) had
more than five-sixths of his time as Pope ahead of him.
Slavery was still legal in Brazil and would be for years.
Wilhelm I,grandfather of the World War I Kaiser,born in 1797,
still ruled Germany.Bernhard II,though abdicated from Saxe-
Meiningen,was still alive and had become Duke during the
Holy Roman Empire.

Consider all the changes,natural and manmade,visited upon the world
in all the time since.

And now consider this...Queen Elizabeth II has been on the Throne
for MOST of that time since then.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.talk.royalty, alt.politics.british, alt.society.monarchy

This revision of the reference file
for the first time makes reference to the
age of the Duke of Cambridge in comparison
to that of George VI,who at the Duke's present
age was already Heir Presumptive to Edward VIII,
barely ten months from abdication/accession.
Comparisons of the Duke's age to Edwards would
follow in due course.

Also on the horizon are comparisons of Prince
George's age to the Queen's as she moved from
third to second in line in January 1936 and
second to first in December 1936...Prince
George is now 25 days past 9 years old,which
the Queen reached in May 1935.

The midpoint of the present reign is in May 1987.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Consider,if you would,the United Kingdom and Empire
as they were on August 1st 1881.

Queen Victoria,under 3 months past 62,was on the throne;
she was over five years from her Golden Jubilee,her Diamond Jubilee
would be ten years after that.The future Edward VII was more than 3
months short of 40 (the current Prince of Wales is under 3 months from 74),
the future George V was under 2 months past 16(the Duke of Cambridge is
now 8 weeks past 40--George V became Heir Apparent at 35 when all
his children were younger than Princess Charlotte is now,and George VI
was Heir Presumptive at the Duke's present age),not yet Duke of York,
and not yet heir apparent to his father;nor was his elder
brother (who had over a decade to live) yet 18.
The future Archbishop of Canterbury who would crown King Edward was
Bishop of Exeter.The oldest British royal was George III's daughter-in-law
the Duchess of Cambridge (Augusta of Hesse-Cassel),born 1797 and with
over seven and a half years to live.

The Church of England dioceses of Birmingham,Blackburn,Bristol, Coventry,Chelmsford,Derby,Guildford,Leicester,Newcastle,Portsmouth,
St. Edmundsbury and Ipswich,Sheffield,and Southwark did not yet
exist...nor did those of Bradford and Wakefield,now abolished,
or that of Southwell,from which Derby would one day be severed.That of Liverpool was under a year and a half old.

Lloyd George,Macdonald,and Baldwin were teenagers,
Chamberlain was twelve and Churchill was six years old,
and no later Prime Minister(including Attlee)
had yet been born (nor had any person in the world alive after 1999).
Keir Hardie,who years later would found the original Scottish
Labour Party,then the Independent Labour Party,and then the Labour
Party proper,was aged twenty-five and would not be an MP for over
a decade.

William Gladstone (born 1809) was the only living person who had been
Prime Minister (years younger than his predecessors).His government
had not yet sought passage of the Representation of the People Act 1884
(which would for the first time enable most men to vote),which would
be followed by the Redistribution of Seats Act 1885 (which would establish
the norm of single-member constituencies) which would first come into
effect with the following election.(The secret ballot had been law
for nine years).
Women would not vote in a General Election for over thirty-seven years. Christopher Rice Mansel Talbot(born 1803),Father of the House of Commons,
had been a member since 1830...before any of the Reform Bills.(Charles
James Mahon,born 1800,had been a member discontinuously since then).

Lord Coleridge (born 1820) was Lord Chief Justice,and had been
the last Chief Justice of the Common Pleas (a position abolished
by the Judicature Act of 1873).The 1st Lord Esher(born 1815 or 1817,
sources disagree) had yet to become Master of the Rolls.The Royal
Courts of Justice building was under construction and today's Old
Bailey would not open for decades.

Many of the Colonies had yet to be colonized,Hong Kong was over a
decade from adding the New Territories.

Battleships that would be scrapped as obsolete in the reign of Edward VII
had yet to be laid down,nor had either HMS Victoria,which would sink in
an 1893 collision,or the ironclad HMS Camperdown,which would sink it.
Ships built with sailing rigs were still in the active fleet,
some with wooden hulls were still performing reserve and training functions, and it was years before HMS Temeraire would make port under sail alone
for the final time.

The Admirals of the Fleet included Sir George Sartorius(born
1790,a commander in 1812 and post-captain in 1814),and
Sir Provo Wallis (born 1791,a lieutenant 1808,and commander 1813);
Sartorius had been a midshipman on HMS Tonnant at Trafalgar in 1805
nearly 9 years before Francis Scott Key's visit to that ship led to
"The Star-Spangled Banner" being written,witnessed the surrender of Napoleon,commanded a fleet in the Portugese Civil War of the 1830s,
and risen through the admiral ranks starting in 1849;Wallis had
taken temporary command of HMS Shannon when it captured USS
Chesapeake in 1813.
The 1st Baron Strathnairn(born 1801) was a Field Marshal,
while Sir Richard Dacres(born 1799),the 3rd Earl of Lucan
(born 1800,a lieutenant colonel 1826),who had ordered the
Charge of the Light Brigade,and three men born in 1804
had yet to receive promotion to that rank.

The eldest Dukes included the 6th of Northumberland(b. 1810, great-great-great-grandfather of the 11th and the current 12th Duke)
the 2nd of Wellington(b. 1807,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather
of the present 9th Duke born 1945,an MP 1829 and army major 1830),
the 7th of Devonshire(b. 1808,great-great-great-grandfather of the
present 12th duke born 1944,he had first become an MP in 1829 and
a peer in 1834),the 5th of Buccleuch/7th of Queensberry(b. 1806,
succeeded in 1819,a Knight of the Garter since 1835,great-great-great- grandfather of the present 12th Duke),the 12th of Somerset(b. 1804,
second cousin of the great-great-great-grandfather of the current 19th Duke), and the 4th (and last) of Cleveland (born 1803).
The 1st Duke of Abercorn,so created in 1868,had succeeded to the
Marquessate thereof in 1818 and been a Knight of the Garter since 1844.
The 3rd Marquess of Donegall (born 1797) was alive and would be
succeeded by a younger brother born in 1799(the present peer is the great-great-great-grandson of their first cousin).
The 7th Earl of Shaftesbury(born 1801,an MP from 1826,great- great-great-grandfather of the present peer and his predecessor),the
3rd Earl Grey (born 1802,also an MP from 1826,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer and of his predecessor),and the 2nd Earl of Harrowby(born 1798,an MP from 1819,
a Lord of the Admiralty in 1827,great-great-great-grandfather of the septuagenarian present Earl) were among the Knights of the Garter.
The 1st Earl of Lovelace (born 1805) had over a decade to live,and
had been a Lord-Lieutenant since 1840.
The 3rd and 4th Earl of Mansfield and Mansfield(born 1806 and with
over 15 years to live) had been a Knight of the Thistle since 1843,
and had been an MP from 1830 to 1840,with a spell in Government 1834-5.
The 4th Earl of Arran(born 1801) had been a Knight of
St. Patrick since 1841 and been charge d'affaires in
Buenos Aires 1832-4.
Also among the Earls were the 6th Earl of Essex(born 1803),
and the 6th of Albemarle,born 1799,a veteran of the Battle of Waterloo.
The eldest of Earls were the 2nd Earl Mount Cashell,
born 1792,the 6th Earl of Buckinghamshire,
born 1793,and the 2nd of Stradbroke,born 1794,
commissioned in the Army in 1810,a Lieutenant 1814,
who missed Waterloo on account of a wound.
The Earl of Sandwich had held his title since 1818.
The 9th Viscount of Arbuthnott(born 1806) was alive,the
current peer is the 17th.
The 1st Viscount Portman (born 1799,first elected MP in 1823) was
alive,the present peer is the 10th.
The oldest Viscount,however,was the 1st and last of Eversley,born in 1794
and Speaker of the House of Commons 1839-57.
The senior Viscount was the 2nd Frankfort de Montmorency,
who had inherited his title in 1822.
Barons included the 3rd Baron Gardner,who had inherited that title
in 1815,the 2nd Baron Mostyn(born 1795,great-great-great-great-
grandfather of the present peer),the 2nd Baron Brougham and Vaux
(born 1795,great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer),
the 16th Baron Saye and Sele(born 1799,great-great-grandfather of
the 101-year-old present peer),the 1st Baron Cottesloe (born 1798,great-great-great-grandfather of the present peer),
and the 1st Lord Ebury,born 1801 and a Privy Counsellor since 1830,
who had over a decade to live;
the oldest peerage holder was Lady Sempill,born 1790 or possibly 1789.
The Lord Bishop of Chichester was Richard Durnford,born 1802,
and that of Llandaff Alfred Ollivant,born 1798.
Sir Moses Montefiore,born 1784,was the oldest baronet.
Sir Thomas Sabine Pasley had held his baronetcy since 1808.

Cardinal Manning (born 1808) was Catholic Archbishop of Westminster,
but Cardinal Newman(born 1801) was the oldest British cardinal.

Abroad Alexander III had been Emperor and Tsar-Autocrat of all
the Russias for less than five months,and Leo XIII(born 1810) had
more than five-sixths of his time as Pope ahead of him.
Slavery was still legal in Brazil and would be for years.
Wilhelm I,grandfather of the World War I Kaiser,born in 1797,
still ruled Germany.Bernhard II,though abdicated from Saxe-
Meiningen,was still alive and had become Duke during the
Holy Roman Empire.

Consider all the changes,natural and manmade,visited upon the world
in all the time since.

And now consider this...Queen Elizabeth II has been on the Throne
for MOST of that time since then.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.talk.royalty, alt.politics.british, alt.society.monarchy

In alt.talk.royalty Louis Epstein <le@top.put.com> wrote:

This revision of the reference file
for the first time makes reference to the
age of the Duke of Cambridge in comparison
to that of George VI,who at the Duke's present
age was already Heir Presumptive to Edward VIII,
barely ten months from abdication/accession.
Comparisons of the Duke's age to Edward's would
follow in due course.

Also on the horizon are comparisons of Prince
George's age to the Queen's as she moved from
third to second in line in January 1936 and
second to first in December 1936...Prince
George is now 25 days past 9 years old,which
the Queen reached in May 1935.

The midpoint of the present reign is in May 1987.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Consider,if you would,the United Kingdom and Empire
as they were on August 1st 1881.

Queen Victoria,under 3 months past 62,was on the throne;
she was over five years from her Golden Jubilee,her Diamond Jubilee
would be ten years after that.The future Edward VII was more than 3
months short of 40 (the current Prince of Wales is under 3 months from 74), the future George V was under 2 months past 16(the Duke of Cambridge is
now 8 weeks past 40--George V became Heir Apparent at 35 when all
his children were younger than Princess Charlotte is now,and George VI
was Heir Presumptive at the Duke's present age),not yet Duke of York,
and not yet heir apparent to his father;nor was his elder
brother (who had over a decade to live) yet 18.
The future Archbishop of Canterbury who would crown King Edward was
Bishop of Exeter.The oldest British royal was George III's daughter-in-law the Duchess of Cambridge (Augusta of Hesse-Cassel),born 1797 and with
over seven and a half years to live.

The Church of England dioceses of Birmingham,Blackburn,Bristol, Coventry,Chelmsford,Derby,Guildford,Leicester,Newcastle,Portsmouth,
St. Edmundsbury and Ipswich,Sheffield,and Southwark did not yet
exist...nor did those of Bradford and Wakefield,now abolished,
or that of Southwell,from which Derby would one day be severed.That of Liverpool was under a year and a half old.

Lloyd George,Macdonald,and Baldwin were teenagers,
Chamberlain was twelve and Churchill was six years old,
and no later Prime Minister(including Attlee)
had yet been born (nor had any person in the world alive after 1999).
Keir Hardie,who years later would found the original Scottish
Labour Party,then the Independent Labour Party,and then the Labour
Party proper,was aged twenty-five and would not be an MP for over
a decade.

Error here,corrected in my file and will be so in next posting;
Hardie turned 25 on August 15th 1881 and the reference date
is now before that.

William Gladstone (born 1809) was the only living person who had been
Prime Minister (years younger than his predecessors).His government
had not yet sought passage of the Representation of the People Act 1884 (which would for the first time enable most men to vote),which would
be followed by the Redistribution of Seats Act 1885 (which would establish the norm of single-member constituencies) which would first come into
effect with the following election.(The secret ballot had been law
for nine years).
Women would not vote in a General Election for over thirty-seven years. Christopher Rice Mansel Talbot(born 1803),Father of the House of Commons,
had been a member since 1830...before any of the Reform Bills.(Charles
James Mahon,born 1800,had been a member discontinuously since then).

Lord Coleridge (born 1820) was Lord Chief Justice,and had been
the last Chief Justice of the Common Pleas (a position abolished
by the Judicature Act of 1873).The 1st Lord Esher(born 1815 or 1817,
sources disagree) had yet to become Master of the Rolls.The Royal
Courts of Justice building was under construction and today's Old
Bailey would not open for decades.

Many of the Colonies had yet to be colonized,Hong Kong was over a
decade from adding the New Territories.

Battleships that would be scrapped as obsolete in the reign of Edward VII
had yet to be laid down,nor had either HMS Victoria,which would sink in
an 1893 collision,or the ironclad HMS Camperdown,which would sink it.
Ships built with sailing rigs were still in the active fleet,
some with wooden hulls were still performing reserve and training functions, and it was years before HMS Temeraire would make port under sail alone
for the final time.

The Admirals of the Fleet included Sir George Sartorius(born
1790,a commander in 1812 and post-captain in 1814),and
Sir Provo Wallis (born 1791,a lieutenant 1808,and commander 1813);
Sartorius had been a midshipman on HMS Tonnant at Trafalgar in 1805
nearly 9 years before Francis Scott Key's visit to that ship led to
"The Star-Spangled Banner" being written,witnessed the surrender of Napoleon,commanded a fleet in the Portugese Civil War of the 1830s,
and risen through the admiral ranks starting in 1849;Wallis had
taken temporary command of HMS Shannon when it captured USS
Chesapeake in 1813.
The 1st Baron Strathnairn(born 1801) was a Field Marshal,
while Sir Richard Dacres(born 1799),the 3rd Earl of Lucan
(born 1800,a lieutenant colonel 1826),who had ordered the
Charge of the Light Brigade,and three men born in 1804
had yet to receive promotion to that rank.

The eldest Dukes included the 6th of Northumberland(b. 1810, great-great-great-grandfather of the 11th and the current 12th Duke)
the 2nd of Wellington(b. 1807,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather
of the present 9th Duke born 1945,an MP 1829 and army major 1830),
the 7th of Devonshire(b. 1808,great-great-great-grandfather of the
present 12th duke born 1944,he had first become an MP in 1829 and
a peer in 1834),the 5th of Buccleuch/7th of Queensberry(b. 1806,
succeeded in 1819,a Knight of the Garter since 1835,great-great-great- grandfather of the present 12th Duke),the 12th of Somerset(b. 1804,
second cousin of the great-great-great-grandfather of the current 19th Duke), and the 4th (and last) of Cleveland (born 1803).
The 1st Duke of Abercorn,so created in 1868,had succeeded to the
Marquessate thereof in 1818 and been a Knight of the Garter since 1844.
The 3rd Marquess of Donegall (born 1797) was alive and would be
succeeded by a younger brother born in 1799(the present peer is the great-great-great-grandson of their first cousin).
The 7th Earl of Shaftesbury(born 1801,an MP from 1826,great- great-great-grandfather of the present peer and his predecessor),the
3rd Earl Grey (born 1802,also an MP from 1826,elder brother of the great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer and of his predecessor),and the 2nd Earl of Harrowby(born 1798,an MP from 1819,
a Lord of the Admiralty in 1827,great-great-great-grandfather of the septuagenarian present Earl) were among the Knights of the Garter.
The 1st Earl of Lovelace (born 1805) had over a decade to live,and
had been a Lord-Lieutenant since 1840.
The 3rd and 4th Earl of Mansfield and Mansfield(born 1806 and with
over 15 years to live) had been a Knight of the Thistle since 1843,
and had been an MP from 1830 to 1840,with a spell in Government 1834-5.
The 4th Earl of Arran(born 1801) had been a Knight of
St. Patrick since 1841 and been charge d'affaires in
Buenos Aires 1832-4.
Also among the Earls were the 6th Earl of Essex(born 1803),
and the 6th of Albemarle,born 1799,a veteran of the Battle of Waterloo.
The eldest of Earls were the 2nd Earl Mount Cashell,
born 1792,the 6th Earl of Buckinghamshire,
born 1793,and the 2nd of Stradbroke,born 1794,
commissioned in the Army in 1810,a Lieutenant 1814,
who missed Waterloo on account of a wound.
The Earl of Sandwich had held his title since 1818.
The 9th Viscount of Arbuthnott(born 1806) was alive,the
current peer is the 17th.
The 1st Viscount Portman (born 1799,first elected MP in 1823) was
alive,the present peer is the 10th.
The oldest Viscount,however,was the 1st and last of Eversley,born in 1794
and Speaker of the House of Commons 1839-57.
The senior Viscount was the 2nd Frankfort de Montmorency,
who had inherited his title in 1822.
Barons included the 3rd Baron Gardner,who had inherited that title
in 1815,the 2nd Baron Mostyn(born 1795,great-great-great-great-
grandfather of the present peer),the 2nd Baron Brougham and Vaux
(born 1795,great-great-grandfather of the octogenarian present peer),
the 16th Baron Saye and Sele(born 1799,great-great-grandfather of
the 101-year-old present peer),the 1st Baron Cottesloe (born 1798,great-great-great-grandfather of the present peer),
and the 1st Lord Ebury,born 1801 and a Privy Counsellor since 1830,
who had over a decade to live;
the oldest peerage holder was Lady Sempill,born 1790 or possibly 1789.
The Lord Bishop of Chichester was Richard Durnford,born 1802,
and that of Llandaff Alfred Ollivant,born 1798.
Sir Moses Montefiore,born 1784,was the oldest baronet.
Sir Thomas Sabine Pasley had held his baronetcy since 1808.

Cardinal Manning (born 1808) was Catholic Archbishop of Westminster,
but Cardinal Newman(born 1801) was the oldest British cardinal.

Abroad Alexander III had been Emperor and Tsar-Autocrat of all
the Russias for less than five months,and Leo XIII(born 1810) had
more than five-sixths of his time as Pope ahead of him.
Slavery was still legal in Brazil and would be for years.
Wilhelm I,grandfather of the World War I Kaiser,born in 1797,
still ruled Germany.Bernhard II,though abdicated from Saxe-
Meiningen,was still alive and had become Duke during the
Holy Roman Empire.

Consider all the changes,natural and manmade,visited upon the world
in all the time since.

And now consider this...Queen Elizabeth II has been on the Throne
for MOST of that time since then.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)