• Jesus and Quetzalcoatl

    From David Dalton@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jun 15 01:37:32 2019
    XPost: alt.native, soc.culture.native, alt.religion.shamanism
    XPost: soc.culture.mexican

    On Jun 10, 2019, David Dalton wrote
    (in article<0001HW.22AE2531054E137C70000CF392CF@news.eternal-september.org>):

    From http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/native.html :

    Jesus and Quetzalcoatl

    This series I think refers to an original human figure Quetzalcoatl. He is mainly a Mexican figure but I think is also known in Central America so I have put this section in both the North American native parallels page and the Central and South American native parallels page.

    Once I thumbed at random D.H. Lawrence's The Complete Poems and came out at a page with some poems relating Jesus and Quetzalcoatl, from the section Poems From the Plumed Serpent. On that page was the short poem

    My name is Jesus, I am Mary's son,
    I am coming home,
    My mother the Moon is dark

    Brother, Quetzalcoatl,
    Hold back the wild hot sun.
    Bind him with shadow while I pass.
    Let me come home.

    From that I interpret the dark moon as being new moon, so related to my waning crescent to new moon highs, and the hold back the wild hot sun to my sun stare of Sept. 5, 1991, 2.5 days before the exact time of new moon.

    Some other relevant quotes from those poems are:

    In the cave which is called Dark Eye
    Behind the sun, looking through him as a window
    Is the place. There the waters rise,
    There the winds are born

    Those last four lines are about Quetzalcoatl than Jesus though, but they again indicate to me my sun stare and in it the tunneling beyond the sun.

    Some more lines, from a poem called Quetzalcoatl looks down on Mexico, are:

    Jesus had gone far up the dark slope, when he looked back.
    Quetzalcoatl, my brother! he called. Send me my images,
    And the images of my mother, and the images of my saints.
    Send me them by the swift way, the way of the sparks,
    That I may hold them like memories in my arms when I go to sleep

    In that I interpret the sparks to be like my own mystic spark experiences.

    Also I know alcohol wasn't much used in pre-Columbus South and Central America, so I don't expect that there is evidence that the original human Quetzalcoatl abstained from alcohol 1--9 days before full moon as I do now, but I plan to research if I can whether he abstained from psychotropic drugs during waxing moon and partook of them during waning moon at times (though I do not plan to).

    In the book PAGAN & CHRISTIAN CREEDS: THEIR ORIGIN AND MEANING (http://www.gutenberg.org/files/1561/1561-h/1561-h.htm) by Edward Carpenter it says:

    (2) See Kingsborough's Mexican Antiquities, vol. vi, p. 176, where it is said "an ambassador was sent from heaven on an embassy to a Virgin of Tulan, called Chimalman... announcing that it was the will of the God that she should conceive a son; and having delivered her the message he rose and left the house; and as soon as he had left it she conceived a son, without connection with man, who was called Quetzalcoat, who they say is the god of air." Further, it is explained that Quetzalcoatl sacrificed himself, drawing forth his own blood with thorns; and that the word Quetzalcoatlotopitzin means "our well-beloved son."

    So Quetzalcoatl seems to have undergone a naked thorn hill climb like mine of Sept. 5/6, 1991. (Also this can be related to the crown of thorns of Jesus, the piercing of hand and feet mentioned in the Old Testament, and the thorns wrapped around the heart of Jesus in the old Catholic Sacred Heart of Jesus pictures.)

    Also, wudao of alt.philosophy.taoism recently wrote:

    Be that as it may, another website has a thesis:


    << Quetzalcoatl and Jesus both were associated with a bloodletting
    ritual and the cruciform symbol-. Even though Sahagun
    states that Quetzalcoatl was greatly penitent by performing
    the blood-letting ritual with thorns, it probably should not
    be thought of as Christian influence although Christ is
    portrayed with the thorns that caused Him to bleed as well.
    It is believed that Christ performed His blood letting ritual
    at the Garden of Gethsemane to renew, the spiritual life of all
    Christians and Quetzalcoatl did it in the underworld to renew
    the physical life of the Nahua people. Quetzalcoatls' virgin
    birth and role as a god of light may or may not be thought of
    as Christian elements ¦ (Bierhorst 145-146). In mythology,
    these traits are not uncommon. >>

    David Dalton dalton@nfld.com http://www.nfld.com/~dalton (home page) http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/dtales.html Salmon on the Thorns (mystic page) “Goin' away far across the sea/But I'll be back for you/I'm gonna tell
    you everything I know/Baby, everything is true” (Van Morrison)

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