https://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/135367/moshiach-will-come-unexpectedly

(...) "The Migdal Oz relates that the Alter Rebbe said that the
Moshiach we are waiting for never comes. (...)

End quote.

If I could rephrase this into: The moshiach Israel wants does not exist,
and the moshiach that does exist they don't want.

The moshiach that Israel wants seems to be like this: a super
charismatic guy, who tells all Jewish people who are at least good at
heart that they are "okay, wonderful, the best, don't need to change at
all" (etc), rallies them all around a National Sovereignty objective for Israel, rebuilds the 3rd Temple (preferrably by miracle), and everyone
will be happy ever after. Bad Jewish people will of course be rejected,
but those where not religious anyway, if not outright criminals.

I guess one obvious way this is supposed to happen is by undeniable
miracles, and those who believe that to be true are quite close to the
Jesus idolatry religion from ancient Rome. A whole bunch of extreme
miracles would overpower the unresolved debates, the permanent schisms,
etc.

You could call this scheme of events ... the easy way out. I guess it is
a possible scenario, under the assumption that anything is possible.

Alternatively, every schism of Judaism would like their particular
schism to be favored by moshiach, so that they are right. This is also
natural in the sense that people are part of a certain group or decided
upon certain choices because they believed them to be the best. Once you
think you made good choices and others made worse choices, it is natural
to think you did good in an objective sense.

How realistic is this version of events ? It depends upon if you think the Jewish people are following the Torah, or where supposed to re-interpret
the Torah in the particular way that they did, or where supposed to
entirely ignore the Torah for that matter. If all that what has happened
was correct, then all what remains is to put a THIS IS CORRECT! stamp on
it, and start the celebrations.

I guess somewhat unfortunately, the Torah has the answer to these
questions, and it is: no (to the above). If Israel is keeping to her laws,
she would have peace on her borders, etc. etc. You could also just look
at the laws given to Israel and ask if Israel is keeping them, and the
answer in general is also "no". Some groups keep more laws than others.

Since a favorite topic of undersigned is the cursed "prosbul" device, it
had to be a matter of lines until this word cropped up in this posting,
and here it is: the prosbul is an obvious breach of the Torah law, and maintained by (as far as I know) all Rabbinical schisms of Judaism. Only
the Kairites might be excluded here, but they are quite small a group.
Torah law breaking is hence a systematic feature of Judaism, in all its varieties, including the so-called "Ultra-Orthodox" (whatever that
means).

In this second version of the events, the Nation of Israel is broadly
engaged in law breaking, and therefore in need of CORRECTION.

People do not want to hear about doing something wrong. Especially not
if they have religiously followed a certain error for thousands of
years. It hurts. It isn't the joy of being corrected so that you could
do better, although that would probably be the most adult way to deal
with it. An interesting and painful part of all this, is the potential
partial or complete loss of authority of potentially all or nearly all
schisms of Judaism. The bosses fall down because they have taught an
error. This they don't like (I assume).

In this version, if "moshiach" is to ever have any chance of breaking
through with the people of Israel, the people of Israel need to somehow
start to care about the truth, more than they have since the errors
began.

I guess this is how we end up with the exact opposite of the miraculous
happy ending moshiach, who makes everyone happy by telling them they did
good. At the point where moshiach needs to tell people "why did you do
bad, and when are you going to stop doing this bad ?" the fun is over.
This is a challenge.

In the latter version, Israel would perhaps have to suffer so badly, that
they give up on following their old bosses, start to question *everything* until they care more about the truth than ... perhaps the pride of the
schism they are a part off ? Perhaps the suffering would be so bad, that
having an answer to why it happened might become soothing, even if it
means Israel has done bad, or not good enough ?

I think this is what the reality will become, and it fits all the
painful expectations regarding the "birth pangs" of moshiach. It also
fits with the idea that Israel is going to be punished to the degree of
7 Nazi holocausts rolled into one larger assault, leaving perhaps 95% of
all Jewish people dead. It would be close to saying "Israel has been
wiped out, only a small amount still remain". This kind of shock will potentially make the remaining Jews think seriously about where they
have gone wrong. Also simply the amount of Rabbis and other leaders who
would be dead, leaves the remaining Jews to their own devices, their own thinking. It breaks them away to a degree, from teachings regarding
their traditions - tradition which may have become dangerously tainted
(such as with the prosbul device).

Such can be the cost of keeping your ears closed, out of pride perhaps.

Here is another brain twister I guess: if the "happy ending everyone si
good" version of moshiach is supposed to become real, then doesn't it
follow how Israel is already doing good, or that some particular schism
is doing good ? Then why is Israel or that particular schism not
redeemed already, and living in Paradise forever and ever, eternal bliss
and one with Justice, truth and Peace ? If the Nation is already doing
good, then the natural consequences of that good should be good. Yet,
the condition of Israel is difficult, and so it is with the rest of the
world, worsening rapidly.

The moshiach they want does not exist. The moshiach that exists, they
don't want. So they will dive headlong into World war 3 and whatever
else may come.

With a snap of the fingers, a minor blow to the ego, everything could potentially be fixed even still today. The nukes didn't go off yet, with
luck and a miracle, who knows what could be done. What if the Rabbis of
Israel repented from the prosbul, or at least some of them ?

Then when the greater dying is going on, or already in the past, what is
the benefit ? Merely a stick to get the ox through the door ? It is a
sad thing. The ox could just get through the door on its own, without
any bruises. Then it gets hit to get moving, eventually it moves through
the door: bruised. Why ? Why does Israel do this, why do they want to
hurt themselves. Nothing changes from what needs to be done. Israel can
step through the door, or get bruised badly, and then still do the same.

Your loss, Israel. You chose this, you will have to pay for it.

--
Economic & political ideology, worked out into Constitutional models,
with a multi-facetted implementation plan. http://market.socialism.nl

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