Most people know that what the British call
aubergines, for instance, are what is known else-
where as eggplants.
Long time, no Steve:
Most people know that what the British call aubergines, for >>instance, are what is known else-
where as eggplants.
what *are* known as eggplants, maybe?
Long time, no Steve:
Most people know that what the British call
aubergines, for instance, are what is known else-
where as eggplants.
what *are* known as eggplants, maybe?
what *are* known as eggplants, maybe?
Aubergeens. What are small Youth Hostels in France
called?
Most people know that what the British call
aubergines, for instance, are what is known
elsewhere as eggplants.
what *are* known as eggplants, maybe?
Maybe, but its referring to an expression. So you
might thing that the expression are eggplants.
BTW: I've left my typo above intact, because there
have been occasional discussions about how "anoth-
er think coming" became "another thing coming".
As a South African living in a community of expats
from all over,
I quickly learned that people didn't always under-
stand what I was talking about. South African En-
glish looks like English, sounds like English, is
English... but sometimes it seems like it's from
another planet. Incidentally, a "robot" is a
traffic light; "taxis" normally refer to minibuses
used as a form of public transport and their
drivers are notoriously reckless;
"just now" indicates some vague point in the fu-
ture;
Steve Hayes to Anton Shepelev:
As a South African living in a community of expats
from all over,
From all over what? Are such dangling prepositions
another feature of South-African English?
* Anton Shepelev:
Steve Hayes to Anton Shepelev:
As a South African living in a community of expats
from all over,
From all over what? Are such dangling prepositions
another feature of South-African English?
No, the adverb "all over" is used ... pretty much all over.
<https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/all_over>
| 2 /informal/ Everywhere
On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 17:23:51 -0400, Quinn C
<lispamateur@crommatograph.info> wrote:
* Anton Shepelev:
Steve Hayes to Anton Shepelev:
As a South African living in a community of expats
from all over,
From all over what? Are such dangling prepositions
another feature of South-African English?
No, the adverb "all over" is used ... pretty much all over.
<https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/all_over>
| 2 /informal/ Everywhere
The OED definition with the earliest two quotations. Note the spelling "alouer" for "all over":
2.a. Over the whole extent of something; in every part; everywhere.
Also: over one's whole body; in every limb.
c1440 (??a1400) Morte Arthure l. 2027 (MED) This ryche
mane..Dresses vp dredfully the dragone of golde, With egles
alouer.
c1440 Prose Life Alexander (Thornton) (1913) 81 (MED) Faire
feldes, alouer floresched wit flores.
Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> wrote:
Long time, no Steve:
Most people know that what the British call
aubergines, for instance, are what is known else-
where as eggplants.
what *are* known as eggplants, maybe?
Aubergeens. What are small Youth Hostels in France called?
Steve Hayes:
As a South African living in a community of
expats from all over,
From all over what? Are such dangling preposi-
tions another feature of South-African English?
No, the adverb "all over" is used ... pretty much
all over.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/all_over
| 2 /informal/ Everywhere
"From all over" was originally American, according
to the OED, which cites examples back to
1860 'E. Wetherell' & 'A. Lothrop' /Say & Seal/ II. xxxvii. 422
They came from all over; the country was gleaned.
(Despite the apparent meter, that's prose.)
Quinn C to Anton Shepelev:
Steve Hayes:
As a South African living in a community of expats from all
over,
From all over what? Are such dangling preposi- tions another
feature of South-African English?
No, the adverb "all over" is used ... pretty much all over.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/all_over | 2
/informal/ Everywhere
It is my unjustified, uneducated, but experienced and strong
opinion that the adverb "all over" must be traceable, in one way or
another, to a noun oc- curing previously in the same sentece.
The connec- tion may go through a verb for which that noun is the
subject or through an adjective modifying that noun:
1. The [room] is dirty all over.
2. That's [him] all over.
3. This ryche mane..Dresses vp dredfully the [dragone] of
golde, With egles alouer.
4. Faire [feldes], alouer floresched wit flores.
It cannot play the role of a noun, which it seems to in Steve's
phrase "a community of expats from all over." I think that is
a new and informal usage, whereas my rule describes one that is old
and liter- ary.
It is my unjustified, uneducated, but experi-
enced and strong opinion that the adverb "all
over" must be traceable, in one way or another,
to a noun occuring previously in the same sen-
tece. The connection may go through a verb for
which that noun is the subject or through an ad-
jective modifying that noun:
That is an interesting approach. I will keep my
eyes open for other occurrences of the expression,
and test them against it.
Perhaps the unexpressed noun here is "the world",
faintly suggested by the notion of countries in-
troduced by "expats".
It is my unjustified, uneducated, but experi-
enced and strong opinion that the adverb "all
over" must be traceable, in one way or another,
to a noun occuring previously in the same sen-
tece. The connection may go through a verb for
which that noun is the subject or through an ad-
jective modifying that noun:
1. The [room] is dirty all over.
2. That's [him] all over.
3. This ryche mane..Dresses vp dredfully the
[dragone] of golde, With egles alouer.
4. Faire [feldes], alouer floresched wit flo-
res.
It cannot play the role of a noun, which it
seems to in Steve's phrase "a community of ex-
pats from all over." I think that is a new and
informal usage, whereas my rule describes one
that is old and literary.
You are, as so often, wrong. If it turned out that
Ambrose Bierce used the phrase in the ordinary
way, would you believe that it's normal Standard
English?
* Anton Shepelev:
CDB to Anton Shepelev:
It is my unjustified, uneducated, but experi- enced and
strong opinion that the adverb "all over" must be
traceable, in one way or another, to a noun occuring previously
in the same sen- tece. The connection may go through a verb
for which that noun is the subject or through an ad- jective
modifying that noun:
That is an interesting approach. I will keep my eyes open for
other occurrences of the expression, and test them against it.
Consider it an adverb werewolfed from a preposition but retaining
its craving for a noun. The differ- ence from "all around",
which I mentioned elsewere in the thread, is obvious: in "all
around" 'all' means everything, whereas in "all over" it is an
in- ternal adverb modifying (and emphasizing) 'over'.
Perhaps the unexpressed noun here is "the world", faintly
suggested by the notion of countries in- troduced by "expats".
which turns "all over" back into a preposition.
Depending on the context, it could be all over town, all over the
country, all over the world, all over the place ...
"All around" I would understand as limited to a certain distance. In
the case of expats, neighboring countries - maybe not only direct
neighbors, but also the countries one over (another abuse?). But not
from all around the world.
CDB to Anton Shepelev:
It is my unjustified, uneducated, but experi-
enced and strong opinion that the adverb "all
over" must be traceable, in one way or another,
to a noun occuring previously in the same sen-
tece. The connection may go through a verb for
which that noun is the subject or through an ad-
jective modifying that noun:
That is an interesting approach. I will keep my
eyes open for other occurrences of the expression,
and test them against it.
Consider it an adverb werewolfed from a preposition
but retaining its craving for a noun. The differ-
ence from "all around", which I mentioned elsewere
in the thread, is obvious: in "all around" 'all'
means everything, whereas in "all over" it is an in-
ternal adverb modifying (and emphasizing) 'over'.
Perhaps the unexpressed noun here is "the world",
faintly suggested by the notion of countries in-
troduced by "expats".
which turns "all over" back into a preposition.
If you want to write for your reader’s English it will also help you immensely if you become more familiar with the different Englishes.
On 3/25/2019 1:42 PM, Quinn C wrote:
"All around" I would understand as limited to a certain distance. In
the case of expats, neighboring countries - maybe not only direct
neighbors, but also the countries one over (another abuse?). But not
from all around the world.
As I read the phrase "a community of ex-pats from all over", it can >include people from anywhere in the world. I wonder if you're
interpreting it as "people from everywhere in the world", which does
seem less likely.
Steve Hayes to Anton Shepelev:
BTW: I've left my typo above intact, because there
have been occasional discussions about how "anoth-
er think coming" became "another thing coming".
"think" is so weird as a verb that I prefer the mod-
ern distortion. But "thing" is even more weid as a
verb.
On Mon, 25 Mar 2019 13:55:33 -0400, CDB <bellemarecd@gmail.com> wrote:
On 3/25/2019 1:42 PM, Quinn C wrote:
"All around" I would understand as limited to a certain distance. In
the case of expats, neighboring countries - maybe not only direct
neighbors, but also the countries one over (another abuse?). But not
from all around the world.
As I read the phrase "a community of ex-pats from all over", it can >>include people from anywhere in the world. I wonder if you're
interpreting it as "people from everywhere in the world", which does
seem less likely.
"All over" sounds quite OK to me.
What I would question about that is the use of the word "community" in
that context.
Though it has become increasingly common to refer to people who share
a common characteristic as a "community", I think it devalues the word "community" unless those people also interact with each other.
Ex-pats from all over have nothing in common other than the fact that
they happen, for the moment, to be in a country other than their own.
I'm not sure if that usage of "community" is peculiarly South African.
I think I have seen it elsewhere as well.
CDB <bellemarecd@gmail.com> wrote:
Quinn C wrote:
"All around" I would understand as limited to a certain distance.
In the case of expats, neighboring countries - maybe not only
direct neighbors, but also the countries one over (another
abuse?). But not from all around the world.
As I read the phrase "a community of ex-pats from all over", it
can include people from anywhere in the world. I wonder if you're
interpreting it as "people from everywhere in the world", which
does seem less likely.
"All over" sounds quite OK to me.
What I would question about that is the use of the word "community"
in that context.
Though it has become increasingly common to refer to people who
share a common characteristic as a "community", I think it devalues
the word "community" unless those people also interact with each
other.
Ex-pats from all over have nothing in common other than the fact
that they happen, for the moment, to be in a country other than their
own.
I'm not sure if that usage of "community" is peculiarly South
African. I think I have seen it elsewhere as well.
On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 23:34:31 +0300, Anton Shepelev
<anton.txt@gmail.com> wrote:
Steve Hayes to Anton Shepelev:
BTW: I've left my typo above intact, because there
have been occasional discussions about how "anoth-
er think coming" became "another thing coming".
"think" is so weird as a verb that I prefer the mod-
ern distortion. But "thing" is even more weid as a
verb.
You mean a noun, Shirley?
"think" is so weird as a verb [Ant: noun] that I
prefer the modern distortion. But "thing" is
even more weid as a verb.
You mean a noun, Shirley?
* Steve Hayes:
Though it has become increasingly common to refer to people who share
a common characteristic as a "community", I think it devalues the word
"community" unless those people also interact with each other.
Ex-pats from all over have nothing in common other than the fact that
they happen, for the moment, to be in a country other than their own.
I'm not sure if that usage of "community" is peculiarly South African.
I think I have seen it elsewhere as well.
Seems common to me. It's often meant to imply that they have certain
common interests, socially or politically - in the case of expats, for >example, regarding immigration or the status and rights of foreigners.
Often, that is the case, although not every single member of such a
loose group will subscribe to the same solution of the issue they
share.
In your quote, I assumed the author meant people he is in contact with, >though.
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