• Re: Time to celebrate!! Monday is Columbus Day

    From 26C.Z968@21:1/5 to Dr. Auric Hellman on Sat Oct 8 18:51:58 2022
    XPost: talk.politics.misc, alt.survival, alt.politics.usa
    XPost: alt.politics.eu

    On 10/7/22 4:28 PM, Dr. Auric Hellman wrote:
    On Friday, October 7, 2022 at 2:49:46 PM UTC-5, Ed Debevic wrote:
    Tell the Indians to go fuck themselves. If they don't like it, let
    them go back to where they came from.

    "JD", or "Ed", or "JonQue"-it's hard to keep up with your 'transitions'- it's interesting that you've at least temporarily switched your focus from the usual racist outbursts against Jews and blacks and transferred your anger towards native Americans.
    Clearly, you have no 'reservations' in sharing the hate that eats at your tortured soul wherever it leads you.
    Have your mother call the office to set up your next session ASAP.

    He IS just a bit -ist, isn't he ?

    However, Columbus and especially those who followed
    him DO teach an important lesson ..... the Euros
    rapidly enslaved two continents not because they
    arrived in vast numbers or because of muskets. They
    dominated because the locals were DISUNITED and
    could not ORGANIZE in any significant way for
    long enough to deal with the Euro threats.

    The Aztec were destroyed in no small part because
    their neighbors helped the Euros do so. Yes, they
    also got screwed later ... but they could hardly
    rally the Aztec to HELP them then, could they ?

    A coalition of tribes killed off Gen Custer and his
    army. The tribes were armed, good fighters. Alas the
    coalition fell apart almost immediately - and the
    individual tribes could easily be exterminated one
    by one.

    Now ... what's the sociopolitical condition of the USA
    these days ......... ?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From 26C.Z968@21:1/5 to rbowman on Sat Oct 8 23:10:08 2022
    XPost: talk.politics.misc, alt.survival, alt.politics.usa
    XPost: alt.politics.eu

    On 10/8/22 10:45 PM, rbowman wrote:
    On 10/8/22 16:51, 26C.Z968 wrote:
    A coalition of tribes killed off Gen Custer and his
       army. The tribes were armed, good fighters. Alas the
       coalition fell apart almost immediately - and the
       individual tribes could easily be exterminated one
       by one.

    It was a number of tribes gathered for the buffalo hunt but Custer got himself and his troops killed. Despite the Crow scouts saying 'Lot of
    Indians down there, sir' Custer and Reno stirred them up. They were
    supposed to cut and run, not stand and fight. They didn't.

    Fort Phil Kearney is a better example of the Lakota, Cheyenne, and
    Arapaho working together.

    Therein lies the problem ... even in the face of a
    quasi-genocidal threat the Amerindian tribes could
    NOT unite for more than brief, contentious, moments.
    Even worse, other tribes took advantage of US power
    to assault their traditional foes, perhaps imagining
    they would come out on top.

    Similar issues south of the border.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetterman_Fight https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagon_Box_Fight

    People still argue about Fetterman's role but the facts are clear. He
    went up the Lodge Ridge Trail. Once he crossed Sullivant Hill he was out
    of sight of the fort. As he got further out on the ridge the trap was
    sprung by the forces concealed in the gullies.

    Up until that disaster the combined tribes had be playing rope-a-dope
    for some time. The fort would send out a wood party, the Indians would
    attack it, and the for would send out a QRT to drive them off. Fetterman
    had already been lured in once but seems to havee forgotten all he knew
    that day. In the best Army tradition they named a fort after him.

    All this was during Red Cloud's War, 10 years before the Great Sioux War where Custer bought it. The Lakota won that one. The US sold out the
    Crow with the Treaty of Fort Laramie. It didn't last long since there
    was gold in the Black Hills. The Cheyenne and Arapaho had some contact
    with the Lakota with the Dog Soldiers but Sand Creek sealed the deal.

    It's eerie walking those battlefields. They're mostly short grass
    prairie with rolling hills and numerous erosion gullies. You can't see
    what's over the next hill. It's not terrain I'd want to fight in.

    Been there, I know what you're talking about. Kinda
    low rolling hills of grass - seems idyllic but it CAN
    hide and assist skilled opponents.

    But my point is about "unity", a focused sense of self,
    culture and nation. The Amerindians did not have that,
    so the more self-posessed, organized, Euros were able
    to crush them.

    And the USA, and to an extent the EU, is in a similar
    disassociated disparate condition themselves.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to All on Sat Oct 8 20:45:39 2022
    XPost: talk.politics.misc, alt.survival, alt.politics.usa
    XPost: alt.politics.eu

    On 10/8/22 16:51, 26C.Z968 wrote:
    A coalition of tribes killed off Gen Custer and his
      army. The tribes were armed, good fighters. Alas the
      coalition fell apart almost immediately - and the
      individual tribes could easily be exterminated one
      by one.

    It was a number of tribes gathered for the buffalo hunt but Custer got
    himself and his troops killed. Despite the Crow scouts saying 'Lot of
    Indians down there, sir' Custer and Reno stirred them up. They were
    supposed to cut and run, not stand and fight. They didn't.

    Fort Phil Kearney is a better example of the Lakota, Cheyenne, and
    Arapaho working together.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetterman_Fight https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagon_Box_Fight

    People still argue about Fetterman's role but the facts are clear. He
    went up the Lodge Ridge Trail. Once he crossed Sullivant Hill he was out
    of sight of the fort. As he got further out on the ridge the trap was
    sprung by the forces concealed in the gullies.

    Up until that disaster the combined tribes had be playing rope-a-dope
    for some time. The fort would send out a wood party, the Indians would
    attack it, and the for would send out a QRT to drive them off. Fetterman
    had already been lured in once but seems to have forgotten all he knew
    that day. In the best Army tradition they named a fort after him.

    All this was during Red Cloud's War, 10 years before the Great Sioux War
    where Custer bought it. The Lakota won that one. The US sold out the
    Crow with the Treaty of Fort Laramie. It didn't last long since there
    was gold in the Black Hills. The Cheyenne and Arapaho had some contact
    with the Lakota with the Dog Soldiers but Sand Creek sealed the deal.

    It's eerie walking those battlefields. They're mostly short grass
    prairie with rolling hills and numerous erosion gullies. You can't see
    what's over the next hill. It's not terrain I'd want to fight in.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mighty Wannabe@21:1/5 to All on Sat Oct 8 23:50:18 2022
    XPost: talk.politics.misc, alt.survival, alt.politics.usa
    XPost: alt.politics.eu

    26C.Z968 wrote on 10/8/2022 11:10 PM:
    On 10/8/22 10:45 PM, rbowman wrote:
    On 10/8/22 16:51, 26C.Z968 wrote:
    A coalition of tribes killed off Gen Custer and his
       army. The tribes were armed, good fighters. Alas the
       coalition fell apart almost immediately - and the
       individual tribes could easily be exterminated one
       by one.

    It was a number of tribes gathered for the buffalo hunt but Custer
    got himself and his troops killed. Despite the Crow scouts saying
    'Lot of Indians down there, sir' Custer and Reno stirred them up.
    They were supposed to cut and run, not stand and fight. They didn't.

    Fort Phil Kearney is a better example of the Lakota, Cheyenne, and
    Arapaho working together.

      Therein lies the problem ... even in the face of a
      quasi-genocidal threat the Amerindian tribes could
      NOT unite for more than brief, contentious, moments.
      Even worse, other tribes took advantage of US power
      to assault their traditional foes, perhaps imagining
      they would come out on top.

      Similar issues south of the border.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetterman_Fight
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagon_Box_Fight

    People still argue about Fetterman's role but the facts are clear. He
    went up the Lodge Ridge Trail. Once he crossed Sullivant Hill he was
    out of sight of the fort. As he got further out on the ridge the trap
    was sprung by the forces concealed in the gullies.

    Up until that disaster the combined tribes had be playing rope-a-dope
    for some time. The fort would send out a wood party, the Indians
    would attack it, and the for would send out a QRT to drive them off.
    Fetterman had already been lured in once but seems to havee 
    forgotten all he knew that day. In the best Army tradition they named
    a fort after him.

    All this was during Red Cloud's War, 10 years before the Great Sioux
    War where Custer bought it. The Lakota won that one. The US sold out
    the Crow with the Treaty of Fort Laramie. It didn't last long since
    there was gold in the Black Hills. The Cheyenne and Arapaho had some
    contact with the Lakota with the Dog Soldiers but Sand Creek sealed
    the deal.

    It's eerie walking those battlefields. They're mostly short grass
    prairie with rolling hills and numerous erosion gullies. You can't
    see what's over the next hill. It's not terrain I'd want to fight in.

      Been there, I know what you're talking about. Kinda
      low rolling hills of grass - seems idyllic but it CAN
      hide and assist skilled opponents.

      But my point is about "unity", a focused sense of self,
      culture and nation. The Amerindians did not have that,
      so the more self-posessed, organized, Euros were able
      to crush them.



    The natives had tomahawks and arrows while the European invaders had
    guns and cannons. Military technology made the British the empire on
    which the sun never sets.


      And the USA, and to an extent the EU, is in a similar
      disassociated disparate condition themselves.



    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to All on Sun Oct 9 00:15:53 2022
    XPost: talk.politics.misc, alt.survival, alt.politics.usa
    XPost: alt.politics.eu

    On 10/8/22 21:10, 26C.Z968 wrote:
    But my point is about "unity", a focused sense of self,
      culture and nation. The Amerindians did not have that,
      so the more self-posessed, organized, Euros were able
      to crush them.

    See the French and Indian War. Oh goody, the Brits gave us guns to kill
    those damn Cree and Hurons! It definitely wasn't peace and love before
    the evil white man arrived.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)