• SLS launch. NASA still has it

    From Alain Fournier@21:1/5 to All on Wed Nov 16 06:04:46 2022
    SLS launched this morning. It was spectacular. NASA showed us again that
    they really know how to run a boondoggle.


    Alain Fournier

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Spain@21:1/5 to Alain Fournier on Thu Nov 17 07:49:16 2022
    On 2022-11-16 6:04 AM, Alain Fournier wrote:
    SLS launched this morning. It was spectacular. NASA showed us again that
    they really know how to run a boondoggle.


    Alain Fournier

    *snicker*

    The point I think, as was pointed out to me elsewhere, is that getting
    SLS off the pad now enables Starship/SuperHeavy to perform either an
    orbital or sub-orbital test without any political road-blocks being
    thrown in its way to prevent an embarrassment to NASA.

    I'm happy SLS got off the ground. I'd be even more happy if it were reconfigured to deliver cargo only and we could use up the supply of
    this expensive, ill-conceived rocket to put one and done cargo into
    space. Perhaps in either lunar or Lagrange Point orbits.

    Not a big fan of the gateway/toll-booth either....

    Dave

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Trolidan7@21:1/5 to Alain Fournier on Sat Nov 19 14:30:02 2022
    On 11/16/22 3:04 AM, Alain Fournier wrote:
    SLS launched this morning. It was spectacular. NASA showed us again that
    they really know how to run a boondoggle.

    Alain Fournier

    Are those center tanks painted red, or do they rust quickly?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Snidely@21:1/5 to All on Sat Nov 19 23:50:48 2022
    Trolidan7 submitted this gripping article, maybe on Saturday:
    On 11/16/22 3:04 AM, Alain Fournier wrote:
    SLS launched this morning. It was spectacular. NASA showed us again that
    they really know how to run a boondoggle.

    Alain Fournier

    Are those center tanks painted red, or do they rust quickly?

    The foam insulation on the core stage gets a suntan, just like the
    Shuttle's external tanks did.

    /dps

    --
    Killing a mouse was hardly a Nobel Prize-worthy exercise, and Lawrence
    went apopleptic when he learned a lousy rodent had peed away all his
    precious heavy water.
    _The Disappearing Spoon_, Sam Kean

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alain Fournier@21:1/5 to Snidely on Sun Nov 20 08:38:15 2022
    On Nov/20/2022 at 02:50, Snidely wrote :
    Trolidan7 submitted this gripping article, maybe on Saturday:
    On 11/16/22 3:04 AM, Alain Fournier wrote:
    SLS launched this morning. It was spectacular. NASA showed us again
    that they really know how to run a boondoggle.

    Alain Fournier

    Are those center tanks painted red, or do they rust quickly?

    The foam insulation on the core stage gets a suntan, just like the
    Shuttle's external tanks did.

    To be more precise. The natural colour of the insulation foam is light
    orange. After exposition to sunlight, it becomes a darker rusty colour
    (what Snidely called a suntan).


    Alain Fournier

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Sylvia Else@21:1/5 to David Spain on Mon Nov 21 13:09:20 2022
    On 17/11/2022 11:49 pm, David Spain wrote:

    I'm happy SLS got off the ground. I'd be even more happy if it were reconfigured to deliver cargo only and we could use up the supply of
    this expensive, ill-conceived rocket to put one and done cargo into
    space. Perhaps in either lunar or Lagrange Point orbits.

    Not a big fan of the gateway/toll-booth either....

    Dave


    I seem to remember the USAF [*] doing a study that showed that a solid
    rocket failure after lift-off could be unsurvivable because bits of
    burning solid rocket fuel would destroy the capsule's parachutes. I
    don't believe a solution was found.

    So relegating it to cargo only would certainly make sense, if there
    really is no cheaper alternative available.

    Sylvia.

    [*] Yes - I don't know why the USAF was doing that either.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Trolidan7@21:1/5 to Alain Fournier on Thu Nov 24 12:36:46 2022
    On 11/20/22 5:38 AM, Alain Fournier wrote:
    On Nov/20/2022 at 02:50, Snidely wrote :
    Trolidan7 submitted this gripping article, maybe on Saturday:
    On 11/16/22 3:04 AM, Alain Fournier wrote:
    SLS launched this morning. It was spectacular. NASA showed us again
    that they really know how to run a boondoggle.

    Alain Fournier

    Are those center tanks painted red, or do they rust quickly?

    The foam insulation on the core stage gets a suntan, just like the
    Shuttle's external tanks did.

    To be more precise. The natural colour of the insulation foam is light orange. After exposition to sunlight, it becomes a darker rusty colour
    (what Snidely called a suntan).


    Alain Fournier

    Am I mistaken or did they used to be lighter in
    color?

    Was the composition of the insulation foam changed
    at some point in time?

    Are the tanks stored longer now than earlier before
    they are used?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Snidely@21:1/5 to All on Thu Nov 24 13:48:11 2022
    Trolidan7 blurted out:
    On 11/20/22 5:38 AM, Alain Fournier wrote:
    On Nov/20/2022 at 02:50, Snidely wrote :
    Trolidan7 submitted this gripping article, maybe on Saturday:
    On 11/16/22 3:04 AM, Alain Fournier wrote:
    SLS launched this morning. It was spectacular. NASA showed us again that >>>>> they really know how to run a boondoggle.

    Alain Fournier

    Are those center tanks painted red, or do they rust quickly?

    The foam insulation on the core stage gets a suntan, just like the
    Shuttle's external tanks did.

    To be more precise. The natural colour of the insulation foam is light
    orange. After exposition to sunlight, it becomes a darker rusty colour
    (what Snidely called a suntan).


    Alain Fournier

    Am I mistaken or did they used to be lighter in
    color?

    All depends on how long a tank has been in the sun. Some had short
    exposure, some had long (and multiple trips on the causeway).

    Was the composition of the insulation foam changed
    at some point in time?

    I believe the answer is "yes", but it is in the same family of
    plastics. The UV behavor is very similar. I'm not going to go back
    through the NasaSpaceFlight.com [NSF] streams of rollouts to track down
    the quote, and you may be better off looking at the media packets NASA
    has prepared.

    Are the tanks stored longer now than earlier before
    they are used?

    Being stored indoors would not result in much discoloration.

    This tank has spent a lot of time on stands and pads. Remember that it
    dd 2 attempts at the full-duration static fire, and has rolled out on
    the mobile launch pad 3 or 4 times and was out at 39B long enough to
    hook up connections, do inspections, run the tests (full wet dress is a
    4 day event, AIUI), and then for each roll back there's undoing all the connections.

    Consider also that Shuttles were often on the pad for months during
    their flight preparations, and the tank color would change during that
    time. There's a ewetoob vid of the rollout for STS-133, on Sep 23,
    2010, according to the tag. Launch was February 24, 2011.


    /dps

    --
    Who, me? And what lacuna?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Spain@21:1/5 to Sylvia Else on Fri Nov 25 16:34:30 2022
    On 2022-11-20 9:09 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
    On 17/11/2022 11:49 pm, David Spain wrote:

    I'm happy SLS got off the ground. I'd be even more happy if it were
    reconfigured to deliver cargo only and we could use up the supply of
    this expensive, ill-conceived rocket to put one and done cargo into
    space. Perhaps in either lunar or Lagrange Point orbits.

    Not a big fan of the gateway/toll-booth either....

    Dave


    I seem to remember the USAF [*] doing a study that showed that a solid
    rocket failure after lift-off could be unsurvivable because bits of
    burning solid rocket fuel would destroy the capsule's parachutes. I
    don't believe a solution was found.


    That was for the "Liberty" Constellation configuration, aka Ares I aka
    'The Stick'. This was a single 5 segment SRB with a TBD second stage to
    boost the Orion Capsule into LEO only. I believe the original plan
    called for the second stage to use LH2/LO2 and a modified J-2 rocket
    engine first used on the upper stages of the
    Saturn V and to be called the J-2X. However, the J-2X eventually ended
    up being a 'clean-sheet' design and did not evolve from the J2 due to performance requirements needed for the Ares I/V program.

    Constellation was cancelled by the Obama Administration and I believe
    the J2-X died with it along with Ares I. Ares V moved on to morph into
    the SLS. SLS upper stage currently is the DCSS (Delta Cryogenic Second
    Stage) to eventually be replaced by the ESA developed Exploration Upper
    Stage EUS. The latter will extend the SLS in height requiring a new
    launch tower to accommodate it. It's in the works as they say, even if
    it tilts slightly off-center (or at least it used to)!.

    The AF range safety folks based out of Patrick AFB at the Cape did a
    study which suggested the LAS system for the Orion capsule on an Ares I
    would not be able to boost it beyond the debris field should the SRB
    explode or be launch destructed via side splitting munitions on the way
    up. Flaming segments of solid fuel could melt the nylon parachute
    material used to make up the Orion parachutes should the capsule fall
    through this debris field. I believe there are videos available of a
    Delta II explosion that used SRBs that show the effect of this flaming
    debris quite nicely. Here's one from Scott Manley:

    https://youtu.be/ey-bbM7m1L8


    I don't know what analysis was done for SLS. Perhaps the abort plan is
    to jettison the SRBs and remain on the core booster long enough to fly
    clear any SRB debris? If the core booster goes first maybe it is just as
    risky? I don't know.

    Liberty flew exactly once. Uncrewed, with dummy payload simulators for
    the capsule and upper-stage. As NASA PAO said at the time: "Testing new concepts in space exploration..."

    So relegating it to cargo only would certainly make sense, if there
    really is no cheaper alternative available.

    Sylvia.


    There is, but might as well leverage sunk cost if you can.

    [*] Yes - I don't know why the USAF was doing that either.They are responsible for range safety at the Cape.

    Dave

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)