Just read another article that says the next Boeing Starliner test
flight won't be before sometime in first half of 2022, and first manned flight hopefully by end of 2022.
With SpaceX reliably providing the crew taxi/Uber service, Starliner
isn't needed. Is it possible that Boeing is trying to find a face-saving
way out of that contract for a Starliner nobody needs?
Another possible reason would be lack of cash. Bombardier started 2
business jet and the C-series project concurrently, and the second the C-Series was late, the company ran out of cash. Killing he Lear 85
wasn't enough and it ended up draining cash from all divisions, so the
rail division no longer had the cash to increase workforce to deliver on
time and within quality standards. (to a point where New York Cuty told Bombarder to not bother bidding again). (All that is left of Bombardier today is the Global 7500 and Challenger business jets, the rest of the
empire was all liquidated).
With Boeing having problems with the 737 and 787, coumpounded with
COVID, if Starliner is not judged strategic, I could see why it would be
easy for Boeing to just starve it of the cash needed to boost
workforce/man hours to complete the project.
What are the odds of Starliner getting finished and going into production/manned launches vs Boeing and NASA agreeing that Starliner is
not needed anymore ?
On 20-Oct-21 3:18 pm, JF Mezei wrote:
Just read another article that says the next Boeing Starliner test
flight won't be before sometime in first half of 2022, and first manned
flight hopefully by end of 2022.
With SpaceX reliably providing the crew taxi/Uber service, Starliner
isn't needed. Is it possible that Boeing is trying to find a face-saving
way out of that contract for a Starliner nobody needs?
Another possible reason would be lack of cash. Bombardier started 2
business jet and the C-series project concurrently, and the second the
C-Series was late, the company ran out of cash. Killing he Lear 85
wasn't enough and it ended up draining cash from all divisions, so the
rail division no longer had the cash to increase workforce to deliver on
time and within quality standards. (to a point where New York Cuty told
Bombarder to not bother bidding again). (All that is left of Bombardier
today is the Global 7500 and Challenger business jets, the rest of the
empire was all liquidated).
With Boeing having problems with the 737 and 787, coumpounded with
COVID, if Starliner is not judged strategic, I could see why it would be
easy for Boeing to just starve it of the cash needed to boost
workforce/man hours to complete the project.
What are the odds of Starliner getting finished and going into
production/manned launches vs Boeing and NASA agreeing that Starliner is
not needed anymore ?
I think I read somewhere, that Starliner has an ability to lift the orbit of the ISS that Dragon lacks. Unfortunately, I cannot find a reference.
But even if that's true, NASA would certainly be better off paying SpaceX to develop that capability, than hoping that Starliner will eventually deliver.
NASA doesn't want a sole provider. They've already had that, and if
SpaceX had to stand down ....
On Tuesday, Sylvia Else exclaimed wildly:
On 20-Oct-21 4:56 pm, Snidely wrote:
NASA doesn't want a sole provider. They've already had that, and if
SpaceX had to stand down ....
They have a sole provider now.
If they got SpaceX to address the near term problem, they could ditch
Boeing in favour of a company more likely to deliver.
There's someone who can deliver in two years, without already being as
far along as Boeing? Even Dragon wasn't that fast.
/dps
On 20-Oct-21 4:56 pm, Snidely wrote:
NASA doesn't want a sole provider. They've already had that, and if SpaceX >> had to stand down ....
They have a sole provider now.
If they got SpaceX to address the near term problem, they could ditch Boeing in favour of a company more likely to deliver.
Just read another article that says the next Boeing Starliner test
flight won't be before sometime in first half of 2022, and first
manned flight hopefully by end of 2022.
There's someone who can deliver in two years, without already being as
far along as Boeing? Even Dragon wasn't that fast.
Yes they do have an incentive to deliver. NASA has been a very lucrative client of Boeing for a very long time. If they don't deliver, they will probably never get another contract from NASA. SpaceX is no longer an unproven startup and Blue Origin is starting to have some credibility so
NASA now has other options for future contracts.
Hi all,inflated they are, and no matter how far behind schedule Boeing slips.
What kind of contract had Boeing got with NASA for Starliner? IF its one of their traditional "Cost+ work done+ performance bonus for delivery" then do they have any incentive to actually deliver. NASA carries on paying the bills, no matter how big and
Hi all,
What kind of contract had Boeing got with NASA for Starliner? IF its one of >their traditional "Cost+ work done+ performance bonus for delivery" then do >they have any incentive to actually deliver. NASA carries on paying the >bills, no matter how big and inflated they are, and no matter how far
behind schedule Boeing slips.
On 2021-10-20 03:15, Snidely wrote:
There's someone who can deliver in two years, without already being as
far along as Boeing? Even Dragon wasn't that fast.
I understand that after the Columbia Shuttle stand down, NASA wanted 2 >distinct taxis so if one goes down, ISS can still function.
But, with ISS funding ending 2025 (NASA has to go by that until it is >extended, right?), does it make sense to still push for 2 suppliers when >SpaceX has demonstrated it's ability to deliver? (and re-use)
When you look at Dragon overall, SpaceX has been sending cargo ship
to/from for years reliably, and now has done crewed transport a few
times. They already have running docking system, tested re-entry/landing
etc.
SpaceX recent private flight shows that it has more capacity to launch
than what NASA needs.
Boeing has about half a flight on its sleeve. And isn't showing signs of >being motivated or in a hurry to get Starliner into "production" (aka: >routine manned flights to ISS).
I find it ery odd that a company like Boeing can't fix Starliner in a
timely fashion.
The idea is that we are going to become a spacefaring nation and as such we need to develop the infrastructure similar to how the Air Mail program
helped flying.
Just read another article that says the next Boeing Starliner test
flight won't be before sometime in first half of 2022, and first manned flight hopefully by end of 2022.
With SpaceX reliably providing the crew taxi/Uber service, Starliner
isn't needed. Is it possible that Boeing is trying to find a face-saving
way out of that contract for a Starliner nobody needs?
Another possible reason would be lack of cash. Bombardier started 2
business jet and the C-series project concurrently, and the second the C-Series was late, the company ran out of cash. Killing he Lear 85
wasn't enough and it ended up draining cash from all divisions, so the
rail division no longer had the cash to increase workforce to deliver on
time and within quality standards. (to a point where New York Cuty told Bombarder to not bother bidding again). (All that is left of Bombardier today is the Global 7500 and Challenger business jets, the rest of the
empire was all liquidated).
With Boeing having problems with the 737 and 787, coumpounded with
COVID, if Starliner is not judged strategic, I could see why it would be
easy for Boeing to just starve it of the cash needed to boost
workforce/man hours to complete the project.
What are the odds of Starliner getting finished and going into production/manned launches vs Boeing and NASA agreeing that Starliner is
not needed anymore ?
I thought there was another company that had completed and tested a cargo resupply, or did I hallucinate that one. It was a strictly cargo vehicle, launched on one of the super expensive boosters that the usual suspects love to supply.
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