• The Profound Junk Science of Climate

    From R Kym Horsell@21:1/5 to Ms. Kristina Georgia on Tue Nov 30 10:50:07 2021
    In sci.skeptic Ms. Kristina Georgia <inanaini899@gmail.com> wrote:
    Climate change prophecy hangs its hat on computer climate models. The
    models have gigantic problems. According to Kevin Trenberth, once in
    charge of modeling at the National Center for Atmospheric Research,
    ...

    LOL.

    I like the way Exxon's own climate models in the early 1980s predicted
    today's global temperatures better than the disinformers they later paid
    to confuse the public about the science:


    Dana Nuccitelli @dana1981 19 Jun 2019 15:17Z
    Exclusively @skepticscience, I compare Exxon's 1982 global warming
    predictions to those from think tankers it later quietly funded. Here's the
    money shot #ExxonKnew
    skepticalscience.com/1982-exxon-acc# <https://t.co/p3cdm83UH6>
    [Exxon 1982 & NASA data vs Lindzen '89 & Michaels '99:]
    <pic.twitter.com/M1Ii1dmz3D>


    Google scholar says there are 23,500 cites to the Exxon model(s).
    There's also a wikipedia page with some background and a bib.

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  • From Bob Casanova@21:1/5 to All on Tue Nov 30 08:58:48 2021
    On Mon, 29 Nov 2021 13:02:44 +0000, the following appeared
    in sci.skeptic, posted by " Ms. Kristina Georgia"
    <inanaini899@gmail.com>:

    [Groups trimmed]

    Climate change prophecy...

    <snip>

    All of this is off-topic in sci.skeptic. Unless, of course,
    it's somehow about a claim of paranormal ability on
    someone's part? No? Then please take it to an appropriate
    group; I'm sure there are sci groups dedicated to
    climatology.

    --

    Bob C.

    "The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
    the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
    'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

    - Isaac Asimov

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  • From Bob Casanova@21:1/5 to All on Tue Nov 30 08:56:05 2021
    On Tue, 30 Nov 2021 10:50:07 -0000 (UTC), the following
    appeared in sci.skeptic, posted by R Kym Horsell
    <kym@kymhorsell.com>:

    In sci.skeptic Ms. Kristina Georgia <inanaini899@gmail.com> wrote:
    Climate change prophecy hangs its hat on computer climate models. The
    models have gigantic problems. According to Kevin Trenberth, once in
    charge of modeling at the National Center for Atmospheric Research,
    ...

    LOL.

    <snip>

    All of this is off-topic in sci.skeptic. Unless, of course,
    it's somehow about a claim of paranormal ability on
    someone's part? No? Then please take it to an appropriate
    group; I'm sure there are sci groups dedicated to
    climatology.

    --

    Bob C.

    "The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
    the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
    'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

    - Isaac Asimov

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  • From R Kym Horsell@21:1/5 to Bob Casanova on Tue Nov 30 18:37:03 2021
    Bob Casanova <nospam@buzz.off> wrote:
    On Mon, 29 Nov 2021 13:02:44 +0000, the following appeared
    in sci.skeptic, posted by " Ms. Kristina Georgia"
    <inanaini899@gmail.com>:

    [Groups trimmed]

    Climate change prophecy...

    <snip>

    All of this is off-topic in sci.skeptic. Unless, of course,
    it's somehow about a claim of paranormal ability on
    ...

    I predate the death of USENET.

    Back in the 90s sci.skeptic was dedicated to "scientific skepticism"
    that is somewhat more general and useful that discussing ghosties and
    and ghoulies.

    Somewhat ironically I cited something from the "SKS" -- skeptical science -- web page in response to the OP.

    --
    Usenet - RationalWiki
    sci.skeptic (news://sci.skeptic) was the first newsgroup on the Internet to discuss matters on skepticism. Its current incarnation has turned into
    a wasteland ...
    -- rationalwiki.org

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  • From Bob Casanova@21:1/5 to All on Tue Nov 30 21:04:07 2021
    On Tue, 30 Nov 2021 18:37:03 -0000 (UTC), the following
    appeared in sci.skeptic, posted by R Kym Horsell
    <kym@kymhorsell.com>:

    Bob Casanova <nospam@buzz.off> wrote:
    On Mon, 29 Nov 2021 13:02:44 +0000, the following appeared
    in sci.skeptic, posted by " Ms. Kristina Georgia"
    <inanaini899@gmail.com>:

    [Groups trimmed]

    Climate change prophecy...

    <snip>

    All of this is off-topic in sci.skeptic. Unless, of course,
    it's somehow about a claim of paranormal ability on
    ...

    I predate the death of USENET.

    Good for you.

    Back in the 90s sci.skeptic was dedicated to "scientific skepticism"
    that is somewhat more general and useful that discussing ghosties and
    and ghoulies.

    Sorry, but sci.skeptic is/was dedicated to claims of the
    paranormal, not general scientific skepticism. And
    climatology doesn't qualify.

    HAND.

    Somewhat ironically I cited something from the "SKS" -- skeptical science -- >web page in response to the OP.

    So? That has nothing to do with s.s.

    --

    Bob C.

    "The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
    the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
    'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

    - Isaac Asimov

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  • From David Dalton@21:1/5 to Bob Casanova on Wed Dec 1 00:48:16 2021
    On Dec 1, 2021, Bob Casanova wrote
    (in article<oqsdqgla8hpmk460b6cf2bc3p6gc7a6eiq@4ax.com>):

    Sorry, but sci.skeptic is/was dedicated to claims of the
    paranormal, not general scientific skepticism. And
    climatology doesn't qualify.

    The Description of the group, available at https://groups.google.com/g/sci.skeptic/about
    is

    Description
    Skeptics discussing pseudo-science.

    But I think Bob has me killfiled so he might not see this,
    unless someone else follows up and quotes it.

    --
    David Dalton dalton@nfld.com https://www.nfld.com/~dalton (home page) https://www.nfld.com/~dalton/dtales.html Salmon on the Thorns (mystic page) “‘You could lay down your head by a sweet river bed/But Sonny
    always remembers what it was his Mama said” (Ron Hynes)

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  • From George Black@21:1/5 to Bob Casanova on Mon Dec 6 07:59:39 2021
    On 1/12/21 5:04 pm, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Tue, 30 Nov 2021 18:37:03 -0000 (UTC), the following
    appeared in sci.skeptic, posted by R Kym Horsell
    <kym@kymhorsell.com>:

    Bob Casanova <nospam@buzz.off> wrote:
    On Mon, 29 Nov 2021 13:02:44 +0000, the following appeared
    in sci.skeptic, posted by " Ms. Kristina Georgia"
    <inanaini899@gmail.com>:

    [Groups trimmed]

    Climate change prophecy...

    <snip>

    All of this is off-topic in sci.skeptic. Unless, of course,
    it's somehow about a claim of paranormal ability on
    ...

    I predate the death of USENET.

    Good for you.

    Back in the 90s sci.skeptic was dedicated to "scientific skepticism"
    that is somewhat more general and useful that discussing ghosties and
    and ghoulies.

    Sorry, but sci.skeptic is/was dedicated to claims of the
    paranormal, not general scientific skepticism. And
    climatology doesn't qualify.

    HAND.

    Somewhat ironically I cited something from the "SKS" -- skeptical science --
    web page in response to the OP.

    So? That has nothing to do with s.s.


    USERNET...
    How many of us were around then.
    Remember EGC ????
    Bet he didn't see it coming

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  • From George Black@21:1/5 to Bob Casanova on Mon Dec 6 07:56:23 2021
    On 1/12/21 4:58 am, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Mon, 29 Nov 2021 13:02:44 +0000, the following appeared
    in sci.skeptic, posted by " Ms. Kristina Georgia"
    <inanaini899@gmail.com>:

    [Groups trimmed]

    Climate change prophecy...

    <snip>

    All of this is off-topic in sci.skeptic. Unless, of course,
    it's somehow about a claim of paranormal ability on
    someone's part? No? Then please take it to an appropriate
    group; I'm sure there are sci groups dedicated to
    climatology.


    Well most people are sceptical of the extra ordinary claims made by the
    global warming (we're all going to die)_ fraternity.
    They (who crosspost to here) have to be forgiven as they have the IQs of
    damp lettuce leaves

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  • From Bob Casanova@21:1/5 to All on Sun Dec 5 16:36:10 2021
    On Mon, 6 Dec 2021 07:56:23 +1300, the following appeared in
    sci.skeptic, posted by George Black <gblack@hnpl.net>:

    On 1/12/21 4:58 am, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Mon, 29 Nov 2021 13:02:44 +0000, the following appeared
    in sci.skeptic, posted by " Ms. Kristina Georgia"
    <inanaini899@gmail.com>:

    [Groups trimmed]

    Climate change prophecy...

    <snip>

    All of this is off-topic in sci.skeptic. Unless, of course,
    it's somehow about a claim of paranormal ability on
    someone's part? No? Then please take it to an appropriate
    group; I'm sure there are sci groups dedicated to
    climatology.


    Well most people are sceptical of the extra ordinary claims made by the >global warming (we're all going to die)_ fraternity.

    That's nice, but "off-topic" has an actual meaning. It's not
    "perception is reality" garbage, as espoused by the current
    crop of educated idiots.

    They (who crosspost to here) have to be forgiven as they have the IQs of
    damp lettuce leaves

    ...which in no way implies that they should "be forgiven".
    Actions have consequences, and neither ignorance nor
    incompetence is, or should be, a defense.

    \
    --

    Bob C.

    "The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
    the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
    'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

    - Isaac Asimov

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  • From Bob Casanova@21:1/5 to All on Sun Dec 5 16:31:28 2021
    On Mon, 6 Dec 2021 07:59:39 +1300, the following appeared in
    sci.skeptic, posted by George Black <gblack@hnpl.net>:

    On 1/12/21 5:04 pm, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Tue, 30 Nov 2021 18:37:03 -0000 (UTC), the following
    appeared in sci.skeptic, posted by R Kym Horsell
    <kym@kymhorsell.com>:

    Bob Casanova <nospam@buzz.off> wrote:
    On Mon, 29 Nov 2021 13:02:44 +0000, the following appeared
    in sci.skeptic, posted by " Ms. Kristina Georgia"
    <inanaini899@gmail.com>:

    [Groups trimmed]

    Climate change prophecy...

    <snip>

    All of this is off-topic in sci.skeptic. Unless, of course,
    it's somehow about a claim of paranormal ability on
    ...

    I predate the death of USENET.

    Good for you.

    Back in the 90s sci.skeptic was dedicated to "scientific skepticism"
    that is somewhat more general and useful that discussing ghosties and
    and ghoulies.

    Sorry, but sci.skeptic is/was dedicated to claims of the
    paranormal, not general scientific skepticism. And
    climatology doesn't qualify.

    HAND.

    Somewhat ironically I cited something from the "SKS" -- skeptical science --
    web page in response to the OP.

    So? That has nothing to do with s.s.


    USERNET...
    How many of us were around then.

    I was.

    Remember EGC ????
    Bet he didn't see it coming

    I certainly remember Curley.

    Which has nothing to do with any of the preceding off-topic
    spam, from either "R Kym Horsell" or "Ms. Kristina Georgia".

    And at least Curley, as idiotic as he was, didn't indulge in
    *egregious* off-topic spam. Again, unlike "R Kym Horsell" or
    " Ms. Kristina Georgia".

    --

    Bob C.

    "The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
    the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
    'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

    - Isaac Asimov

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  • From George Black@21:1/5 to Bob Casanova on Wed Dec 8 07:45:22 2021
    On 6/12/21 12:31 pm, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Mon, 6 Dec 2021 07:59:39 +1300, the following appeared in
    sci.skeptic, posted by George Black <gblack@hnpl.net>:

    On 1/12/21 5:04 pm, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Tue, 30 Nov 2021 18:37:03 -0000 (UTC), the following
    appeared in sci.skeptic, posted by R Kym Horsell
    <kym@kymhorsell.com>:

    Bob Casanova <nospam@buzz.off> wrote:
    On Mon, 29 Nov 2021 13:02:44 +0000, the following appeared
    in sci.skeptic, posted by " Ms. Kristina Georgia"
    <inanaini899@gmail.com>:

    [Groups trimmed]

    Climate change prophecy...

    <snip>

    All of this is off-topic in sci.skeptic. Unless, of course,
    it's somehow about a claim of paranormal ability on
    ...

    I predate the death of USENET.

    Good for you.

    Back in the 90s sci.skeptic was dedicated to "scientific skepticism"
    that is somewhat more general and useful that discussing ghosties and
    and ghoulies.

    Sorry, but sci.skeptic is/was dedicated to claims of the
    paranormal, not general scientific skepticism. And
    climatology doesn't qualify.

    HAND.

    Somewhat ironically I cited something from the "SKS" -- skeptical science --
    web page in response to the OP.

    So? That has nothing to do with s.s.


    USERNET...
    How many of us were around then.

    I was.

    Remember EGC ????
    Bet he didn't see it coming

    I certainly remember Curley.

    Which has nothing to do with any of the preceding off-topic
    spam, from either "R Kym Horsell" or "Ms. Kristina Georgia".

    True but I wanted to get the group back on topic

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  • From Bob Casanova@21:1/5 to All on Tue Dec 7 11:51:04 2021
    On Wed, 8 Dec 2021 07:45:22 +1300, the following appeared in
    sci.skeptic, posted by George Black <gblack@hnpl.net>:

    On 6/12/21 12:31 pm, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Mon, 6 Dec 2021 07:59:39 +1300, the following appeared in
    sci.skeptic, posted by George Black <gblack@hnpl.net>:

    On 1/12/21 5:04 pm, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Tue, 30 Nov 2021 18:37:03 -0000 (UTC), the following
    appeared in sci.skeptic, posted by R Kym Horsell
    <kym@kymhorsell.com>:

    Bob Casanova <nospam@buzz.off> wrote:
    On Mon, 29 Nov 2021 13:02:44 +0000, the following appeared
    in sci.skeptic, posted by " Ms. Kristina Georgia"
    <inanaini899@gmail.com>:

    [Groups trimmed]

    Climate change prophecy...

    <snip>

    All of this is off-topic in sci.skeptic. Unless, of course,
    it's somehow about a claim of paranormal ability on
    ...

    I predate the death of USENET.

    Good for you.

    Back in the 90s sci.skeptic was dedicated to "scientific skepticism" >>>>> that is somewhat more general and useful that discussing ghosties and >>>>> and ghoulies.

    Sorry, but sci.skeptic is/was dedicated to claims of the
    paranormal, not general scientific skepticism. And
    climatology doesn't qualify.

    HAND.

    Somewhat ironically I cited something from the "SKS" -- skeptical science --
    web page in response to the OP.

    So? That has nothing to do with s.s.


    USERNET...
    How many of us were around then.

    I was.

    Remember EGC ????
    Bet he didn't see it coming

    I certainly remember Curley.

    Which has nothing to do with any of the preceding off-topic
    spam, from either "R Kym Horsell" or "Ms. Kristina Georgia".

    True but I wanted to get the group back on topic

    A lost cause, I'm afraid. Even before the group essentially
    died from malnutrition it was overrun with religious (and
    antireligious) fanatics and other woo-woos of sorts other
    than paranormal claimants. EGC and the "Riley the Psychic
    De(f)ective" types were long gone by then. RIP.

    --

    Bob C.

    "The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
    the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
    'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

    - Isaac Asimov

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  • From George Black@21:1/5 to Bob Casanova on Sun Dec 12 07:47:54 2021
    On 8/12/21 7:51 am, Bob Casanova wrote:

    A lost cause, I'm afraid. Even before the group essentially
    died from malnutrition it was overrun with religious (and
    antireligious) fanatics and other woo-woos of sorts other
    than paranormal claimants. EGC and the "Riley the Psychic
    De(f)ective" types were long gone by then. RIP.

    As has happened to most groups.
    You'd think that a military.naval group would be that but no.
    The nutters are everywhere

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  • From Bob Casanova@21:1/5 to All on Sat Dec 11 12:44:28 2021
    On Sun, 12 Dec 2021 07:47:54 +1300, the following appeared
    in sci.skeptic, posted by George Black <gblack@hnpl.net>:

    On 8/12/21 7:51 am, Bob Casanova wrote:

    A lost cause, I'm afraid. Even before the group essentially
    died from malnutrition it was overrun with religious (and
    antireligious) fanatics and other woo-woos of sorts other
    than paranormal claimants. EGC and the "Riley the Psychic
    De(f)ective" types were long gone by then. RIP.

    As has happened to most groups.
    You'd think that a military.naval group would be that but no.

    I suspect the rise of blogs did more to kill Usenet than any
    other factor. Remember chatrooms and bulletin boards?
    Evolution in action...

    The nutters are everywhere

    Yep. Especially in Mordor-on-the-Potomac...

    --

    Bob C.

    "The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
    the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
    'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

    - Isaac Asimov

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  • From George Black@21:1/5 to Bob Casanova on Sun Dec 12 15:09:49 2021
    On 12/12/21 8:44 am, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Sun, 12 Dec 2021 07:47:54 +1300, the following appeared
    in sci.skeptic, posted by George Black <gblack@hnpl.net>:

    On 8/12/21 7:51 am, Bob Casanova wrote:

    A lost cause, I'm afraid. Even before the group essentially
    died from malnutrition it was overrun with religious (and
    antireligious) fanatics and other woo-woos of sorts other
    than paranormal claimants. EGC and the "Riley the Psychic
    De(f)ective" types were long gone by then. RIP.

    As has happened to most groups.
    You'd think that a military.naval group would be that but no.

    I suspect the rise of blogs did more to kill Usenet than any
    other factor. Remember chatrooms and bulletin boards?
    Evolution in action...

    The nutters are everywhere

    Yep. Especially in Mordor-on-the-Potomac...


    Deja News ????
    Mate and I ran a BBS in the Fidonet days

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  • From Bob Casanova@21:1/5 to All on Sat Dec 11 19:57:26 2021
    On Sun, 12 Dec 2021 15:09:49 +1300, the following appeared
    in sci.skeptic, posted by George Black <gblack@hnpl.net>:

    On 12/12/21 8:44 am, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Sun, 12 Dec 2021 07:47:54 +1300, the following appeared
    in sci.skeptic, posted by George Black <gblack@hnpl.net>:

    On 8/12/21 7:51 am, Bob Casanova wrote:

    A lost cause, I'm afraid. Even before the group essentially
    died from malnutrition it was overrun with religious (and
    antireligious) fanatics and other woo-woos of sorts other
    than paranormal claimants. EGC and the "Riley the Psychic
    De(f)ective" types were long gone by then. RIP.

    As has happened to most groups.
    You'd think that a military.naval group would be that but no.

    I suspect the rise of blogs did more to kill Usenet than any
    other factor. Remember chatrooms and bulletin boards?
    Evolution in action...

    The nutters are everywhere

    Yep. Especially in Mordor-on-the-Potomac...


    Deja News ????
    Mate and I ran a BBS in the Fidonet days

    I didn't really get into it until the mid-90s. I started on
    a 300-baud modem from an Apple II+, but even the 19k modems
    that came later were too slow to be an attraction for me.
    Until I was able to use a cable modem at home the only way I
    really got into it was at work with a dedicated link
    provided by [company].

    .
    --

    Bob C.

    "The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
    the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
    'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

    - Isaac Asimov

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  • From vallor@21:1/5 to David Dalton on Fri Dec 17 12:05:05 2021
    On Wed, 01 Dec 2021 00:48:16 -0330, David Dalton wrote:

    On Dec 1, 2021, Bob Casanova wrote
    (in article<oqsdqgla8hpmk460b6cf2bc3p6gc7a6eiq@4ax.com>):

    Sorry, but sci.skeptic is/was dedicated to claims of the
    paranormal, not general scientific skepticism. And
    climatology doesn't qualify.

    The Description of the group, available at https://groups.google.com/g/sci.skeptic/about
    is

    Description
    Skeptics discussing pseudo-science.

    But I think Bob has me killfiled so he might not see this,
    unless someone else follows up and quotes it.


    I was curious, so I retrieved the original control messages from ftp.isc.org, and you are correct:

    For your newsgroups file:
    sci.skeptic Skeptics discussing pseudo-science.

    I was around back in '98, but I can't say I really remember
    much about the group.

    I will point out that the sword cuts both ways, and that a claim
    that "climate science is pseudo-science" is a pseudo-scientific
    claim in and of itself.

    (And, also, considerable good could come about by allaying the
    fears of vaccine skeptics/cynics...)

    --
    -v

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  • From Bob Casanova@21:1/5 to All on Fri Dec 17 09:43:06 2021
    On 17 Dec 2021 12:05:05 GMT, the following appeared in
    sci.skeptic, posted by vallor <vallor@cultnix.org>:

    On Wed, 01 Dec 2021 00:48:16 -0330, David Dalton wrote:

    On Dec 1, 2021, Bob Casanova wrote
    (in article<oqsdqgla8hpmk460b6cf2bc3p6gc7a6eiq@4ax.com>):

    Sorry, but sci.skeptic is/was dedicated to claims of the
    paranormal, not general scientific skepticism. And
    climatology doesn't qualify.

    The Description of the group, available at
    https://groups.google.com/g/sci.skeptic/about
    is

    Description
    Skeptics discussing pseudo-science.

    But I think Bob has me killfiled so he might not see this,
    unless someone else follows up and quotes it.


    I was curious, so I retrieved the original control messages from ftp.isc.org, >and you are correct:

    For your newsgroups file:
    sci.skeptic Skeptics discussing pseudo-science.

    I was around back in '98, but I can't say I really remember
    much about the group.

    I will point out that the sword cuts both ways, and that a claim
    that "climate science is pseudo-science" is a pseudo-scientific
    claim in and of itself.

    (And, also, considerable good could come about by allaying the
    fears of vaccine skeptics/cynics...)

    He's correct; I do have him killfiled. That said...

    Relying on Gurgle to provide an accurate description of a
    newsgroup charter which existed before Gurgle did is a bit
    naive. As a general vague description, OK (it is, after all,
    about discussions of *a particular branch* of
    pseudo-science), but I'd say it's as valid as describing
    Formula 1 racing as "a group of people driving cars in
    various places"; true, but far from accurate. It's not
    worth my time to try to find a link to the original charter*
    (which I *did* read in its entirety, which was *way* more
    than a one-liner in Gurgle, when I first started posting
    back in the mid-90s), but it specifically stated that the
    group, which was, IIRC, related directly to CSICOP
    (Committee for Scientific Investigation of Claims of the
    Paranormal) and to James Randi's work, was for just that,
    discussing claims of paranormal abilities, and not for
    pseudo-science in general. Many refused to adhere to that,
    and discussions frequently went off the rails into
    flat-Earth, Vogons and other such woo-woo subjects, but that
    *was* the stated purpose as defined in the charter.

    *Actually, I did try to find the original charter, and
    thought I had here:
    https://www.newsdemon.com/newsgroup-info/skeptic

    Unfortunately, that link is to an RFD to create
    sci.bio.evolution; sci.skeptic, already in existence at the
    time, was merely on the RFD distribution list.

    --

    Bob C.

    "The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
    the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
    'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

    - Isaac Asimov

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