Ptolemeian epicycles managed the predictions
quite well (better than circular orbits of
Copernicus). Does it mean that the planet
movements were somehow the evidence for
geocentrism?
Sorry, poor halfbrains.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Perhaps that goes for the relativistic formula for the effects of
gravity on atomic clocks. What does electromagnetism have to do with the
decay rate of atomic clocks?

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On Fri, 13 Sep 2024 17:50:59 +0000, LaurenceClarkCrossen wrote:

Perhaps that goes for the relativistic formula for the effects
of gravity on atomic clocks. What does electromagnetism have
to do with the decay rate of atomic clocks?

Caesium-133 is stable: it doesn't undergo radioactive decay.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isotopes_of_caesium

“A person who won’t read has no advantage over one who can’t
read.” – Mark Twain

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On 2024-09-13 17:50:59 +0000, LaurenceClarkCrossen said:

Perhaps that goes for the relativistic formula for the effects of
gravity on atomic clocks.

The relativistic formula for the effects of gravity on atomic clocks
has been verified for weak fields.

What does electromagnetism have to do with the
decay rate of atomic clocks?

The frequency of atomic clocks is not a decay rate. Atomic clocks
are shielded against effects of electormagnetism. Similar shielding
against gravity is not possible.

--
Mikko

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Gary: Thank you.

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Mikko: How is the formula for determining the gravitational effect on
atomic clocks GR and not just gravity?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Mikko: How can we know the different rates of atomic clocks in space are
due to gravity when there are numerous differences in that environment
from Earth?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Sat, 14 Sep 2024 23:06:47 +0000, LaurenceClarkCrossen wrote:

Mikko: How can we know the different rates of atomic clocks in space are
due to gravity when there are numerous differences in that environment
from Earth?

(1) The satellite clocks are isolated from environmental conditions with
the exception of relative velocity and gravitational field.

(2) https://www.nist.gov/news-events/news/2010/09/nist-pair-aluminum-atomic-clocks-reveal-einsteins-relativity-personal-scale

NIST scientists performed the new "time dilation" experiments by
comparing operations of a pair of the world's best experimental
atomic clocks. The nearly identical clocks are each based on the
"ticking" of a single aluminum ion (electrically charged atom)
as it vibrates between two energy levels over a million billion
times per second.

In one set of experiments, scientists raised one of the clocks
by jacking up the laser table to a height one-third of a meter
(about a foot) above the second clock. Sure enough, the higher
clock ran at a slightly faster rate than the lower clock,
exactly as predicted.

The second set of experiments examined the effects of altering
the physical motion of the ion in one clock. (The ions are almost
completely motionless during normal clock operations.) NIST
scientists tweaked the one ion so that it gyrated back and forth
at speeds equivalent to several meters per second. That clock
ticked at a slightly slower rate than the second clock, as
predicted by relativity.

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Mikko: It's in this article; "Relativistic Corrections in the European
GNSS Galileo"

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W dniu 15.09.2024 o 02:06, gharnagel pisze:

On Sat, 14 Sep 2024 23:06:47 +0000, LaurenceClarkCrossen wrote:

Mikko: How can we know the different rates of atomic clocks in space are
due to gravity when there are numerous differences in that environment
from Earth?

(1) The satellite clocks are isolated from environmental conditions with
the exception of relative velocity and gravitational field.

(2)
https://www.nist.gov/news-events/news/2010/09/nist-pair-aluminum-atomic- clocks-reveal-einsteins-relativity-personal-scale

NIST scientists performed the new "time dilation" experiments by

There is no time dilation in the real world, anyone
can check GPS, time (as defined by your idiot guru
himself) is galilean, with the precision of an acceptable
error.

comparing operations of a pair of the world's best experimental
atomic clocks.

Anyone can check GPS, the best of physicists means
unusable for serious measurements crap.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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W dniu 15.09.2024 o 11:56, Mikko pisze:

On 2024-09-14 22:07:58 +0000, LaurenceClarkCrossen said:

Mikko: How is the formula for determining the gravitational effect on
atomic clocks GR and not just gravity?

Depends on which formula you want to use. One of the symbols in the
formula refer to time as measured by a clock and one to coordinate
time. The dependency on the altitude of the ratio of these two times
is the effect on clocks.

Your pathetic lies of 2 different times
allegedly present in your moronic Shit
won't save it at all.

So, 2 times, eh? Which one of them
should we use to determine simultaneity?

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On 2024-09-14 22:07:58 +0000, LaurenceClarkCrossen said:

Mikko: How is the formula for determining the gravitational effect on
atomic clocks GR and not just gravity?

Depends on which formula you want to use. One of the symbols in the
formula refer to time as measured by a clock and one to coordinate
time. The dependency on the altitude of the ratio of these two times
is the effect on clocks.

--
Mikko

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On 2024-09-14 23:06:47 +0000, LaurenceClarkCrossen said:

Mikko: How can we know the different rates of atomic clocks in space are
due to gravity when there are numerous differences in that environment
from Earth?

For the purpose of those clocks it does not really matter. What matters
is that we know how much clock rates need be corrected. Assuming the
difference is a consequence of gravitation as modelled by GR permits
the prediction of the clock rates as accurately as is needed.

--
Mikko

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W dniu 15.09.2024 o 12:23, Mikko pisze:



Assuming the

difference is a consequence of gravitation as modelled by GR permits
the prediction of the clock rates as accurately as is needed.

A lie, as expected from a piece of relativistic shit.
According to your absurd religion there is no need
for any clock rates correction and they're strictly
forbidden.

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Gary: Given that they are isolated, how would relative velocity cause
them to run slower? (It doesn't cause time itself to dilate. That is
pure nonsense.)

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Mikko: What does the gravitational effect have to do with relativity?
The formula is about gravitational potential.

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Mikko: Then relativity has two types of time contraction. One due to
gravity and the other due to relative motion as in the H&K they have
time dilate in one direction and contract in the other.

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Mikko: Then the gravitational effect is time contraction? Rational
scientists understand it is instrumental error.

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Mikko: A pendulum clock must be adjusted to different lengths to keep
the same time to varying latitudes because of the difference in gravity.
That has nothing to do with relativity, so why would it be relativity
with the atomic clocks?

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On Sun, 15 Sep 2024 5:41:30 +0000, Maciej Wozniak wrote:

W dniu 15.09.2024 o 02:06, gharnagel pisze:

On Sat, 14 Sep 2024 23:06:47 +0000, LaurenceClarkCrossen wrote:

Mikko: How can we know the different rates of atomic clocks in space

are

due to gravity when there are numerous differences in that

environment

from Earth?

(1) The satellite clocks are isolated from environmental conditions

with

the exception of relative velocity and gravitational field.

(2)

https://www.nist.gov/news-events/news/2010/09/nist-pair-aluminum-atomic-

clocks-reveal-einsteins-relativity-personal-scale

NIST scientists performed the new "time dilation" experiments by

There is no time dilation in the real world,

confirmation bias: only seeking information to validate what is already believed.

“Two-thirds of what we see is behind our eyes.” --Chinese proverb

anyone can check GPS,

Not unless they can jump 20000 km high and breathe vacuum :-)

time (as defined by your idiot guru himself) is galilean, with
the precision of an acceptable error.

Denial of reality is a common mental illness.

comparing operations of a pair of the world's best experimental
atomic clocks.

Anyone can check GPS,

Not unless they can jump 20000 km high and breathe vacuum :-))

But they can check the results of aluminum atomic clocks right
here on earth, if they're not afraid of having their delusional
protection bubble burst.

https://arxiv.org/abs/0911.4527

the best of physicists means unusable for serious measurements

What kind of measurements has a self-proclaimed "information
engineer" made? as opposed to REAL engineers and scientists:

"We have constructed an optical clock with a fractional frequency
inaccuracy of 8.6e-18" -- https://arxiv.org/abs/0911.4527

crap.

Got coprophilia?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Sun, 15 Sep 2024 19:05:35 +0000, LaurenceClarkCrossen wrote:

Gary: Given that they are isolated, how would relative velocity
cause them to run slower? (It doesn't cause time itself to dilate.
That is pure nonsense.)

It certainly is nonsense that velocity causes a clock to run
slower. Clocks run at their normal rate regardless of velocity
or gravitational potential.

Relativity predicts that measuring such a clock at different
gravitational potentials or in relative motion will get different
results from measuring them when next to the clock. This is a
fact, valid information.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-04349-7

https://arxiv.org/abs/2109.12238

"we measure a linear frequency gradient consistent with the
gravitational redshift within a single millimetre-scale sample
of ultracold strontium. Our result is enabled by improving the
fractional frequency measurement uncertainty by more than a
factor of 10, now reaching 7.6 × 10−21."

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The Starmaker wrote:

LaurenceClarkCrossen wrote:

Mikko: A pendulum clock must be adjusted to different lengths to keep
the same time to varying latitudes because of the difference in gravity. That has nothing to do with relativity, so why would it be relativity
with the atomic clocks?

The *fact* is...
what no one here wants to admit ..
is that,
it was a CucKoo-Clock
where Albert Einstein
produced Relativity from.

I forgot to mentioned...a CucKoo-Clock is in fact A pendulum clock.


(but yous people have to probably have to look that up....)

yous people are all into 'look-up science' ...cause info doesn't exist
in your head.


--
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable,
and challenge the unchallengeable.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Mon, 16 Sep 2024 3:23:54 +0000, The Starmaker wrote:

The Starmaker wrote:

LaurenceClarkCrossen wrote:

Mikko: A pendulum clock must be adjusted to different lengths to

keep

the same time to varying latitudes because of the difference in

gravity.

That has nothing to do with relativity, so why would it be

relativity

with the atomic clocks?

The *fact* is...
what no one here wants to admit ..
is that,
it was a CucKoo-Clock
where Albert Einstein
produced Relativity from.

I forgot to mentioned...a CucKoo-Clock is in fact A pendulum clock.

(but yous people have to probably have to look that up....)

yous people are all into 'look-up science' ...cause info doesn't exist
in your head.

It was dere, but it leaked out :-(

I KNOW that it's a pendulum clock, good grief! I usta bullseye kookoo
boids wit' my B-B gun.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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LaurenceClarkCrossen wrote:

Mikko: A pendulum clock must be adjusted to different lengths to keep
the same time to varying latitudes because of the difference in gravity.
That has nothing to do with relativity, so why would it be relativity
with the atomic clocks?

The *fact* is...
what no one here wants to admit ..
is that,
it was a CucKoo-Clock
where Albert Einstein
produced Relativity from.




--
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable,
and challenge the unchallengeable.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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W dniu 16.09.2024 o 04:24, gharnagel pisze:

It certainly is nonsense that velocity causes a clock to run
slower.  Clocks run at their normal rate regardless of velocity
or gravitational potential.

Anyone can check GPS, and you stated many times
yourself, poor trash: no, they are not.

At least - that's how things are in the reality;
of course, your delusional gedankenwelt is
different.

Common sense was warning your idiot guru.

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W dniu 16.09.2024 o 13:43, gharnagel pisze:

On Mon, 16 Sep 2024 5:24:20 +0000, Maciej Wozniak wrote:

W dniu 16.09.2024 o 04:24, gharnagel pisze:

It certainly is nonsense that velocity causes a clock to run
slower.  Clocks run at their normal rate regardless of velocity
or gravitational potential.

[Lies and nonsense deleted]

Common sense was warning your idiot guru.

More lies, insults and slanders left in to show the kind of
person Wozniak is.

More lies, insults and slanders left in to show
the kind of person Harnagel is.
Do you want a quoting where you - in person - wrote
about DIFFERENT clock rates in GPS? Allegedly
predicted by your beloved Shit? And "confirming"
it?
So, are different clock rates really confirming that
"Clocks run at their normal rate regardless of..."?

Lies have short legs, poor trash.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Mon, 16 Sep 2024 5:24:20 +0000, Maciej Wozniak wrote:

W dniu 16.09.2024 o 04:24, gharnagel pisze:

It certainly is nonsense that velocity causes a clock to run
slower.  Clocks run at their normal rate regardless of velocity
or gravitational potential.

[Lies and nonsense deleted]

Common sense was warning your idiot guru.

More lies, insults and slanders left in to show the kind of
person Wozniak is.

"At the time of launch of the first NTS-2 satellite (June 1977),
which contained the first Cesium clock to be placed in orbit,
there were some who doubted that relativistic effects were real."

(Unfortunately, Wozniak refuses to accept reality, so he still
doubts)

"A frequency synthesizer was built into the satellite clock
system so that after launch, if in fact the rate of the clock in
its final orbit was that predicted by GR, then the synthesizer
could be turned on bringing the clock to the coordinate rate
necessary for operation. The atomic clock was first operated for
about 20 days to measure its clock rate before turning on the
synthesizer. The frequency measured during that interval was
+442.5 parts in 1012 faster than clocks on the ground; if left
uncorrected this would have resulted in timing errors of about
38,000 nanoseconds per day." -- Neil Ashby http://www.leapsecond.com/history/Ashby-Relativity.htm

So Wozniak has been in denial of reality for 47 years. That's
a LONG time to be a mental case :-(

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Starmaker: I'll have to look that up!
We don't need relativity to calculate the adjustment in the lengths of pendulums or atomic clocks in space. An adjustment for gravity does not necessarily employ relativity. The equation doesn't seem to use
relativity. It's just about gravitational potential. Where is relativity
in the formula?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 2024-09-15 21:27:28 +0000, LaurenceClarkCrossen said:

Mikko: Then relativity has two types of time contraction. One due to
gravity and the other due to relative motion as in the H&K they have
time dilate in one direction and contract in the other.

Both theories have time dilation and contraction for moving clocks,
depending on how clocks are synchronized and compared. General
Relativity has in addition effects from gravity.

--
Mikko

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On 2024-09-15 21:33:05 +0000, LaurenceClarkCrossen said:

Mikko: A pendulum clock must be adjusted to different lengths to keep
the same time to varying latitudes because of the difference in gravity.
That has nothing to do with relativity, so why would it be relativity
with the atomic clocks?

Basically because God created the world that way. It probably is too
late to discuss that with God even if you think another way would be
better.

--
Mikko

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On 2024-09-15 19:07:02 +0000, LaurenceClarkCrossen said:

Mikko: What does the gravitational effect have to do with relativity?
The formula is about gravitational potential.

Special Relativity says that there is no gravitation. General Relativity
is a theory about gravitation and geometry.

--
Mikko

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Le 17/09/2024 à 08:00, Mikko a écrit :

On 2024-09-15 21:27:28 +0000, LaurenceClarkCrossen said:

Mikko: Then relativity has two types of time contraction. One due to
gravity and the other due to relative motion as in the H&K they have
time dilate in one direction and contract in the other.

Both theories have time dilation and contraction for moving clocks,
depending on how clocks are synchronized and compared. General
Relativity has in addition effects from gravity.

I do not share this point of view.
It is already said, wrongly in my opinion, that we must separate the
notion of internal chornotropy of watches from the longitudinal Doppler
effect.
For me, this is already excessive.
And then we say: "Let's add general relativity effects due to the presence
of masses".
On this ground, I have even more difficulty following the ramblings of scientists.
I am not saying that there are no effects, nor that the effects are not measurable.
I am simply wondering if all this, from A to Z, is not just simple
relativistic effects that could be considered pure native SR.

R.H.

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Mikko: It's not necessary for an adjustment for the effects of gravity. Newtonian is fine.

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Mikko: We can adjust it for gravity without using relativity just fine.
What about the formula is relativity? It's just an adjustment for
gravity.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Mon, 16 Sep 2024 12:02:25 +0000, Maciej Wozniak wrote:

W dniu 16.09.2024 o 13:43, gharnagel pisze:

On Mon, 16 Sep 2024 5:24:20 +0000, Maciej Wozniak wrote:

W dniu 16.09.2024 o 04:24, gharnagel pisze:

It certainly is nonsense that velocity causes a clock to run
slower.  Clocks run at their normal rate regardless of velocity
or gravitational potential.

[Lies and nonsense deleted]

Common sense was warning your idiot guru.

More lies, insults and slanders left in to show the kind of
person Wozniak is.

More lies, insults and slanders left in to show
the kind of person Harnagel is.

Just infantile ranting "nyah, nyah, nyah, so are you!"
As expected from Wozniak with his arrested development.

Do you want a quoting where you - in person -

"In person"? I don't recall actually having the
pleasure of meeting Maciej "in person"

wrote

That's not "in person" :-)

about DIFFERENT clock rates in GPS?

Wozzie-prevaricator is trying to twist the truth
again. Different clock rates (of identical clocks)
are always observed from a distance, when up close
("in person" :-) they keep identical time.
Deceitful Wozniak is trying to confuse, not illuminate.

Allegedly predicted

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_time_dilation

No "allegedly" about it.

by your beloved Shit?

Wozniak demonstrates his coprophilia again.

And "confirming" it?

https://www.nist.gov/news-events/news/2010/09/nist-pair-aluminum-atomic-clocks-reveal-einsteins-relativity-personal-scale

Dishonest Wozniak deletes the evidence and then
casts doubt.

So, are different clock rates really confirming that
"Clocks run at their normal rate regardless of..."?

That's what relativity predicts and that's what physical
evidence confirms.

[Wozzie's] Lies have short legs,
poor trash.

Denigration rather than enlightenment is the hallmark
of Wozniak's posts.

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W dniu 18.09.2024 o 14:12, gharnagel pisze:

On Mon, 16 Sep 2024 12:02:25 +0000, Maciej Wozniak wrote:

W dniu 16.09.2024 o 13:43, gharnagel pisze:

On Mon, 16 Sep 2024 5:24:20 +0000, Maciej Wozniak wrote:

W dniu 16.09.2024 o 04:24, gharnagel pisze:

It certainly is nonsense that velocity causes a clock to run
slower.  Clocks run at their normal rate regardless of velocity
or gravitational potential.

[Lies and nonsense deleted]

Common sense was warning your idiot guru.

More lies, insults and slanders left in to show the kind of
person Wozniak is.

More lies, insults and slanders left in to show
the kind of person Harnagel is.

Just infantile ranting "nyah, nyah, nyah, so are you!"
As expected from Wozniak with his arrested development.

Do you want a quoting where you - in person -

"In person"?  I don't recall actually having the
pleasure of meeting Maciej "in person"

wrote

That's not "in person" :-)

about DIFFERENT clock rates in GPS?

Wozzie-prevaricator is trying to twist the truth
again.  Different clock rates (of identical clocks)
are always observed from a distance

Lies still have short legs, poor trash.
"Clocks run at their normal rate regardless of velocity"
Regardless of velocity. You were not speaking about
"when up close".
Anyway, that's what your Shit is really claiming/predicting.
The same rates, regardless of...

Too bad that the clock rates are chosen
by engineers making these clocks. To bad
that your idiot guru with his delusional
"laws of nature" was trying to mess with
our job.
Common sense was warning the idiot it's
not going to work.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 12:49:07 +0000, Maciej Wozniak wrote:

W dniu 18.09.2024 o 14:12, gharnagel pisze:

Wozzie-prevaricator is trying to twist the truth
again.  Different clock rates (of identical clocks)
are always observed from a distance

[Unbelievably stupid ranting response deleted by
sanitation engineers (who are rational, unlike
"information" engineers)]

Wozzie-liar makes no sane sense, as expected from
his previous dishonest posts designed, apparently,
to keep his ego stroked by seeing his name in print.
No further response to his vacuous rants is necessary.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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W dniu 18.09.2024 o 15:15, gharnagel pisze:

On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 12:49:07 +0000, Maciej Wozniak wrote:

W dniu 18.09.2024 o 14:12, gharnagel pisze:

Wozzie-prevaricator is trying to twist the truth
again.  Different clock rates (of identical clocks)
are always observed from a distance

[Unbelievably stupid ranting response deleted by
sanitation engineers (who are rational, unlike
"information" engineers)]

Wozzie-liar makes no sane sense, as expected from

See, poor trash - I've proven the mumble of your idiot
guru to be inconsistent, and you can do nothing about it
apart of spitting, insulting and slandering.

Still - you will do what you can for your beloved
Shit and your beloved church.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 14:09:59 +0000, Maciej Wozniak wrote:

W dniu 18.09.2024 o 15:15, gharnagel pisze:

On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 12:49:07 +0000, Maciej Wozniak wrote:

[Unbelievably stupid ranting response deleted by
sanitation engineers (who are rational, unlike
"information" engineers)]

Wozzie-liar makes no sane sense, as expected from
his previous dishonest posts designed, apparently,
to keep his ego stroked by seeing his name in print.
No further response to his vacuous rants is necessary.

See, poor trash - I've proven the mumble of your idiot
guru to be inconsistent,

Repeating a refuted assertion doesn't make it true, neither
do insults and pasted lies.

and you can do nothing about it apart of spitting,
insulting and slandering.

I've presented solid evidence that Wozniak's assertions
are completely false. Since he has serious mental issues,
he will do what he can for his beloved coprophilia and
his beloved satanic Church of What Never Happened. His
liturgy:

"Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience
seared with a hot iron" -- 1 Tim 4:2

"A true witness delivereth souls: but a deceitful witness
speaketh lies." -- Proverbs 14:25

"And they will deceive every one his neighbour, and
will not speak the truth: they have taught their tongue
to speak lies"

Whereas the Church of What Really Happens has in its
liturgy such truths as

https://www.nist.gov/news-events/news/2010/09/nist-pair-aluminum-atomic-clocks-reveal-einsteins-relativity-personal-scale

"NIST scientists performed the new "time dilation" experiments by
comparing operations of a pair of the world's best experimental
atomic clocks. The nearly identical clocks are each based on the
"ticking" of a single aluminum ion (electrically charged atom)
as it vibrates between two energy levels over a million billion
times per second."

"In one set of experiments, scientists raised one of the clocks
by jacking up the laser table to a height one-third of a meter
(about a foot) above the second clock. Sure enough, the higher
clock ran at a slightly faster rate than the lower clock,
exactly as predicted."

"The second set of experiments examined the effects of altering
the physical motion of the ion in one clock. (The ions are almost
completely motionless during normal clock operations.) NIST
scientists tweaked the one ion so that it gyrated back and forth
at speeds equivalent to several meters per second. That clock
ticked at a slightly slower rate than the second clock, as
predicted by relativity."

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-04349-7

https://arxiv.org/abs/2109.12238

"we measure a linear frequency gradient consistent with the
gravitational redshift within a single millimetre-scale sample
of ultracold strontium. Our result is enabled by improving the
fractional frequency measurement uncertainty by more than a
factor of 10, now reaching 7.6 × 10−21."

http://www.leapsecond.com/history/Ashby-Relativity.htm

"A frequency synthesizer was built into the satellite clock
system so that after launch, if in fact the rate of the clock in
its final orbit was that predicted by GR, then the synthesizer
could be turned on bringing the clock to the coordinate rate
necessary for operation. The atomic clock was first operated for
about 20 days to measure its clock rate before turning on the
synthesizer. The frequency measured during that interval was
+442.5 parts in 1012 faster than clocks on the ground; if left
uncorrected this would have resulted in timing errors of about
38,000 nanoseconds per day." -- Neil Ashby

https://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SR/experiments.html

Bailey et al., "Measurements of relativistic time
dilation for positive and negative muons in a
circular orbit," Nature 268 (July 28, 1977) pg 301.
Bailey et al., Nuclear Physics B 150 pg 1–79 (1979).

Sherwin, "Some Recent Experimental Tests of the 'Clock
Paradox'", Phys. Rev. 129 no. 1 (1960), pg 17.

Bender et al., Science 182 (1973), pg 229. "The corner
reflectors placed on the moon by the Apollo astronauts
are used to verify GR with a net accuracy of 15 cm in
the telescope-to-reflector distance."

So Wozniak's Church of What Never Happened insists that thousands of
scientists are lying, but The Church of What Really Happens includes
Occam's Razor, which shaves off Deceitful Wozniak's lies and reveals
the simple truth: Wozniak is a satanic liar.

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W dniu 18.09.2024 o 23:05, gharnagel pisze:

On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 14:09:59 +0000, Maciej Wozniak wrote:

W dniu 18.09.2024 o 15:15, gharnagel pisze:

On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 12:49:07 +0000, Maciej Wozniak wrote:

[Unbelievably stupid ranting response deleted by
sanitation engineers (who are rational, unlike
"information" engineers)]

Wozzie-liar makes no sane sense, as expected from
his previous dishonest posts designed, apparently,
to keep his ego stroked by seeing his name in print.
No further response to his vacuous rants is necessary.

See, poor trash - I've proven the mumble of your idiot
guru to be inconsistent,

Repeating a refuted assertion doesn't make it true, neither
do insults and pasted lies.

and you can do nothing about it apart of spitting,
insulting and slandering.

I've presented solid evidence that Wozniak's assertions

I've pointed directly 2 denying themself
predictions of the physics of your idiot
guru; so I've proven its inconsistency.
A fanatic scumbag screaming "NOOOO!!!"
raving, insulting and slandering is
changing nothing, dorry, trash.

"NIST scientists performed the new "time dilation" experiments by

And in the meantime in the real world -
forbiddewn by your insane church
"engineered" clocks keep measuring
t'=t, just like all serious clocks
always did.

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On 2024-09-17 15:16:06 +0000, Richard Hachel said:

Le 17/09/2024 à 08:00, Mikko a écrit :

On 2024-09-15 21:27:28 +0000, LaurenceClarkCrossen said:

Mikko: Then relativity has two types of time contraction. One due to
gravity and the other due to relative motion as in the H&K they have
time dilate in one direction and contract in the other.

Both theories have time dilation and contraction for moving clocks,
depending on how clocks are synchronized and compared. General
Relativity has in addition effects from gravity.

I do not share this point of view.

Nobody needs care whether you share.

--
Mikko

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On 2024-09-17 18:07:20 +0000, LaurenceClarkCrossen said:

Mikko: We can adjust it for gravity without using relativity just fine.
What about the formula is relativity? It's just an adjustment for
gravity.

In order to adjust for gravity you need to know how much adjustment
is needed. General Relativity can tell you how much. The same for
adjustment for motion. If smothing simpler gives the same accurately
enough it may be better but "accurately enough" varies depending on
the purpose.

--
Mikko

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W dniu 19.09.2024 o 10:51, Mikko pisze:

On 2024-09-17 18:07:20 +0000, LaurenceClarkCrossen said:

Mikko: We can adjust it for gravity without using relativity just fine.
What about the formula is relativity? It's just an adjustment for
gravity.

In order to adjust for gravity you need to know how much adjustment
is needed. General Relativity can tell you how much.

Sure, The Shit tells you that no adjustment is needed
and trying to synchronize clocks means some common sense
prejudices.
In the perfect relativistic world - nothing would work,
but we would have a magnificient symmetry instead.

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Le 19/09/2024 à 10:46, Mikko a écrit :

On 2024-09-17 15:16:06 +0000, Richard Hachel said:

Le 17/09/2024 à 08:00, Mikko a écrit :

On 2024-09-15 21:27:28 +0000, LaurenceClarkCrossen said:

Mikko: Then relativity has two types of time contraction. One due to
gravity and the other due to relative motion as in the H&K they have
time dilate in one direction and contract in the other.

Both theories have time dilation and contraction for moving clocks,
depending on how clocks are synchronized and compared. General
Relativity has in addition effects from gravity.

I do not share this point of view.

Nobody needs care whether you share.

"Nobody" is an idiot.

R.H.

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Am Dienstag000017, 17.09.2024 um 07:54 schrieb Mikko:

On 2024-09-15 19:07:02 +0000, LaurenceClarkCrossen said:

Mikko: What does the gravitational effect have to do with relativity?
The formula is about gravitational potential.

Special Relativity says that there is no gravitation. General Relativity
is a theory about gravitation and geometry.

No

SRT is a theory about a certain abstract 'space', which is not the real universe.

This SRT-space has certain features, which the real space does not have.

Especially 'SRT-space' allows linear, unaccelerated 'inertial' motion
along a streigth line.

This requires a dark and force-free void, along which spaceships (for
instance) float.

This situation is not real, but an abstraction of the real world.

In the real world space is not force free, for instance, and not
entirely dark.


TH

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On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 5:11:52 +0000, Maciej Wozniak wrote:

W dniu 18.09.2024 o 23:05, gharnagel pisze:

On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 14:09:59 +0000, Maciej Wozniak wrote:

See, poor trash - I've proven the mumble of your idiot
guru to be inconsistent,

Repeating a refuted assertion doesn't make it true, neither
do insults and pasted lies.

and you can do nothing about it apart of spitting,
insulting and slandering.

I've presented solid evidence that Wozniak's assertions

are completely false. Since he has serious mental issues,

he will do what he can for his beloved coprophilia and
his beloved satanic Church of What Never Happened.]

Wozniak cannot delete the truth that he lies incessantly.

I've pointed directly 2 denying themself
predictions of the physics

A regurgitated lie, refuted by previous posts.

of your idiot guru;

Which proves that Wozniak is the insulting and
slandering one projecting his shortcomings on
others.

so I've proven its inconsistency.

Only in Wozniak's dreams. His "proof" is
invalid because he misrepresents the meaning
of t and t'.

A fanatic scumbag screaming "NOOOO!!!"
raving, insulting and slandering is
changing nothing, dorry, trash.

and that Wozniak is the one screaming, raving,
insulting and slandering.

"NIST scientists performed the new "time
dilation" experiments by comparing

operations of a pair of the world's best

experimental atomic clocks. The nearly
identical clocks are each based on the
"ticking" of a single aluminum ion
(electrically charged atom) as it vibrates
between two energy levels over a million
billion times per second."
"In one set of experiments, scientists
raised one of the clocks by jacking up the
laser table to a height one-third of a meter
(about a foot) above the second clock. Sure
enough, the higher clock ran at a slightly
faster rate than the lower clock, exactly as
predicted."
"The second set of experiments examined the
effects of altering the physical motion of
the ion in one clock. (The ions are almost
completely motionless during normal clock
operations.) NIST scientists tweaked the one
ion so that it gyrated back and forth at
speeds equivalent to several meters per
second. That clock ticked at a slightly
slower rate than the second clock, as
predicted by relativity."]

Dishonest Wozniak tries to delete evidence,
REAL information, restored here, that refutes
his lies.

And in the meantime in the real world -
forbiddewn by your insane church
"engineered" clocks keep measuring
t'=t, just like all serious clocks
always did.

Wozniak misrepresents t' and t in his never-
ending insults and slanders, he deceitfully
asserts that dt' and dt have nothing to do with
t' and t, and he pretends that t' is just
another clock keeping t time. The t' clock is
in the satellite, which has no observer.

Wozniak is a congenital liar.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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W dniu 20.09.2024 o 13:14, gharnagel pisze:

On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 5:11:52 +0000, Maciej Wozniak wrote:

W dniu 18.09.2024 o 23:05, gharnagel pisze:

On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 14:09:59 +0000, Maciej Wozniak wrote:

See, poor trash - I've proven the mumble of your idiot
guru to be inconsistent,

Repeating a refuted assertion doesn't make it true, neither
do insults and pasted lies.

and you can do nothing about it apart of spitting,
insulting and slandering.

I've presented solid evidence that Wozniak's assertions

are completely false.  Since he has serious mental issues,

he will do what he can for his beloved coprophilia and
his beloved satanic Church of What Never Happened.]

Wozniak cannot delete the truth that he lies incessantly.

I've pointed directly 2 denying themself
predictions of the physics

A regurgitated lie, refuted by previous posts.

I've pointed directly 2 denying themself
predictions of the physics of your idiot
guru. I've proven its inconsistency.
A fanatic piece of shit screaming "NOOOO!!",
insulting and slandering is changing nothing.

Only in Wozniak's dreams.  His "proof" is
invalid because he misrepresents the meaning
of t and t'.

Well, the proof was never invoking any of them,
poor lying piece of shit.

And in the meantime in the real world -
forbiddewn by your insane church
"engineered" clocks keep measuring
t'=t, just like all serious clocks
always did.

Wozniak misrepresents t' and t in his never-

t and t' - the indications of two clock of
GPS system - are equal with a good precision
in any time. Sorry, trash, that's how things
really are in the real world, that's where
the mad lies of your mad church end.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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