• Re: Scientists failed to understand that Einstein's (SRT) is an incompl

    From Dono.@21:1/5 to Ken Seto on Mon Oct 23 10:54:20 2023
    On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 10:42:36 AM UTC-7, Ken Seto wrote:
    Their failures are based on the following faulty assumptions:
    1. Every SR observer is faultily assumed to be in a state of absolute rest in space (the aether or the E-Matrix).

    Cretin. Incurable.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Tom Roberts@21:1/5 to Ken Seto on Mon Oct 23 13:22:41 2023
    On 10/23/23 12:42 PM, Ken Seto wrote:
    Their failures are based on the following faulty assumptions: 1.
    Every SR observer is faultily assumed to be in a state of absolute
    rest [...]

    This is just plain not true -- SR makes no such "assumption", indeed
    this is nonsensical in SR.

    2. I have formulated a complete theory of relativity called IRT. IRT
    is included in My book: Model Mechanics :The Final Theory.

    3. Please read my book before comment.

    No need. You are CLEARLY incompetent, and whatever you write is useless.

    Tom Roberts

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  • From Volney@21:1/5 to Romano Baibikov on Mon Oct 23 15:19:19 2023
    On 10/23/2023 2:56 PM, Romano Baibikov wrote:
    Ken Seto wrote:

    2. I have formulated a complete theory of relativity called IRT. IRT is
    included in My book: Model Mechanics :The Final Theory.

    3. Please read my book before comment.

    Lisa Heaven is not 𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿_𝘀𝗲𝗰𝗿𝗲𝘁𝗮𝗿𝘆, you lying thief. They not for nothing
    bombed your country with 2 atomic bombs.

    𝗚𝗲𝗿𝗺𝗮𝗻𝘆_𝗻𝗲𝗲𝗱𝘀_𝗡𝗼𝗿𝗱_𝗦𝘁𝗿𝗲𝗮𝗺_2_–_𝗔𝗙𝗗_𝗠𝗣
    Resuming energy flows from Russia will help stave off deindustrialization, Steffen Kotre says https://r%74.com/business/585508-germany-needs-nord-stream/

    It’s kind of amazing to see Russia go from a world powerhouse to a petty colony in just over one year. Right now, there is no food in supermarkets.

    Germany should have invoked article 5 when nazi Russia
    blew up Nordstream

    There. I fixed your typos, nymshifter. No need to thank me.

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  • From JanPB@21:1/5 to Ken Seto on Tue Oct 24 02:48:59 2023
    On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 10:42:36 AM UTC-7, Ken Seto wrote:
    Their failures are based on the following faulty assumptions:
    1. Every SR observer is faultily assumed to be in a state of absolute rest in space

    SR makes no such assumption.

    (the aether or the E-Matrix). And thus every SR observer faultily assumes that a clock moving wrt him is running slower.

    Therefore, N/A.

    In real life a clock moving wrt the observer is accumulating clock seconds at a slower rate of 1/gamma or faster rate of gamma.

    N/A.

    2. I have formulated a complete theory of relativity called IRT. IRT is included in My book: Model Mechanics :The Final Theory.

    You are wasting your time.

    --
    Jan

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  • From The Starmaker@21:1/5 to Ken Seto on Wed Oct 25 23:00:23 2023
    Ken Seto wrote:

    Their failures are based on the following faulty assumptions:
    1. Every SR observer is faultily assumed to be in a state of absolute rest in space (the aether or the E-Matrix). And thus every SR observer faultily assumes that a clock moving wrt him is running slower. In real life a clock moving wrt the observer
    is accumulating clock seconds at a slower rate of 1/gamma or faster rate of gamma.

    2. I have formulated a complete theory of relativity called IRT. IRT is included in My book: Model Mechanics :The Final Theory.

    3. Please read my book before comment.

    Thank you ,
    Ken Seto



    can you post a link, please?


    --
    The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
    to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable,
    and challenge the unchallengeable.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ken Seto@21:1/5 to Tom Roberts on Fri Oct 27 15:33:50 2023
    On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 2:22:54 PM UTC-4, Tom Roberts wrote:
    On 10/23/23 12:42 PM, Ken Seto wrote:
    Their failures are based on the following faulty assumptions: 1.
    Every SR observer is faultily assumed to be in a state of absolute
    rest [...]

    This is just plain not true -- SR makes no such "assumption", indeed
    this is nonsensical in SR.

    Then how come every SR observer claims that all clocks moving wrt him are running slow? That is --very SR observer claims that clocks moving wrt him are accumulating clock seconds at a slower rate ?----

    2. I have formulated a complete theory of relativity called IRT. IRT
    is included in My book: Model Mechanics :The Final Theory.


    3. Please read my book before comment.
    No need. You are CLEARLY incompetent, and whatever you write is useless.

    Tom Roberts

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ken Seto@21:1/5 to JanPB on Fri Oct 27 15:41:21 2023
    On Tuesday, October 24, 2023 at 5:49:01 AM UTC-4, JanPB wrote:
    On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 10:42:36 AM UTC-7, Ken Seto wrote:
    Their failures are based on the following faulty assumptions:
    1. Every SR observer is faultily assumed to be in a state of absolute rest in space
    SR makes no such assumption.ow come

    Then how come a clock moving wrt the SR observer runs at a slower rate of 1/gamma?

    (the aether or the E-Matrix). And thus every SR observer faultily assumes that a clock moving wrt him is running slower.
    Therefore, N/A.
    In real life a clock moving wrt the observer is accumulating clock seconds at a slower rate of 1/gamma or faster rate of gamma.
    N/A.
    2. I have formulated a complete theory of relativity called IRT. IRT is included in My book: Model Mechanics :The Final Theory.
    You are wasting your time.

    --
    Jan

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tom Roberts@21:1/5 to Ken Seto on Fri Oct 27 18:01:57 2023
    On 10/27/23 5:33 PM, Ken Seto wrote:
    how come every SR observer claims that all clocks moving wrt him
    are running slow?

    They don't. Anyone who understands modern physics knows that all clocks
    ALWAYS run at their usual rate, never "slowing" (or speeding up). Such
    people recognize that when observing a moving clock BY PROJECTING ITS
    TICKS ONTO THEIR INERTIAL REST FRAME they will OBSERVE the moving clock
    to tick more slowly than their coordinate clocks; that of course does
    not affect how the clock ITSELF is ticking.

    You REALLY need to learn what SR actually says, rather than repeatedly
    making the same silly arguments AGAINST YOUR OWN MISUNDERSTANDINGS.

    Tom Roberts

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  • From Ken Seto@21:1/5 to Tom Roberts on Fri Oct 27 16:57:26 2023
    On Friday, October 27, 2023 at 7:02:09 PM UTC-4, Tom Roberts wrote:
    On 10/27/23 5:33 PM, Ken Seto wrote:
    how come every SR observer claims that all clocks moving wrt him
    are running slow?
    They don't. Anyone who understands modern physics knows that all clocks ALWAYS run at their usual rate,
    At their usual rate have no meaning.....you are assuming that a clock second contains an
    an absolute interval of time in different frames.......It does not.

    never "slowing" (or speeding up). Such
    people recognize that when observing a moving clock BY PROJECTING ITS
    TICKS ONTO THEIR INERTIAL REST FRAME they will OBSERVE the moving clock
    to tick more slowly than their coordinate clocks; that of course does
    not affect how the clock ITSELF is ticking.

    Experiments how that clocks in relative motions will accumulated clock seconds at different rates.

    You REALLY need to learn what SR actually says, rather than repeatedly making the same silly arguments AGAINST YOUR OWN MISUNDERSTANDINGS.

    You need to have an opened mind that SR assumptions might be wrong.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Ken Seto@21:1/5 to The Starmaker on Fri Oct 27 16:33:10 2023
    On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 2:00:01 AM UTC-4, The Starmaker wrote:
    Ken Seto wrote:

    Their failures are based on the following faulty assumptions:
    1. Every SR observer is faultily assumed to be in a state of absolute rest in space (the aether or the E-Matrix). And thus every SR observer faultily assumes that a clock moving wrt him is running slower. In real life a clock moving wrt the observer
    is accumulating clock seconds at a slower rate of 1/gamma or faster rate of gamma.

    2. I have formulated a complete theory of relativity called IRT. IRT is included in My book: Model Mechanics :The Final Theory.

    3. Please read my book before comment.

    Thank you ,
    Ken Seto


    can you post a link, please?


    --
    The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unmet website that contains the linkaskable,
    to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable,
    and challenge the unchallengeable.

    For reasons unknown, Microsoft destroyed my website that contains the link for my book. I tried to reactiveate the site but failed.
    However, Amazon saw the value of my book and they post my book in their site. I can open their link as follows:
    Amazon_Book Online(1).pdf
    If you can't get the book in the above link, I can email it to you.

    Ken Seto

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From JanPB@21:1/5 to Ken Seto on Fri Oct 27 20:55:18 2023
    On Friday, October 27, 2023 at 3:41:23 PM UTC-7, Ken Seto wrote:
    On Tuesday, October 24, 2023 at 5:49:01 AM UTC-4, JanPB wrote:
    On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 10:42:36 AM UTC-7, Ken Seto wrote:
    Their failures are based on the following faulty assumptions:
    1. Every SR observer is faultily assumed to be in a state of absolute rest in space
    SR makes no such assumption.ow come

    Then how come a clock moving wrt the SR observer runs at a slower rate of 1/gamma?

    It doesn't run at a slower rate. Its rate is measured to be slower by a different
    clock. (Reread the last sentence until you see why this is a very different claim
    that the sentence preceding it.)

    The source of this phenomenon is unknown, all we know so far is that it can be modelled mathematically in terms of certain geometry. The immediately observable
    "reason" is that the speed of light is in a certain well-defined experimental sense an invariant.

    Einstein was the first to notice this correlation. Physicists before him thought
    only that there was something peculiar about Maxwell's equations, and they quantified
    this peculiarity. But they didn't see the more direct correlation with space and time.

    --
    Jan

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  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to JanPB on Sat Oct 28 00:07:51 2023
    On Saturday, 28 October 2023 at 05:55:20 UTC+2, JanPB wrote:
    On Friday, October 27, 2023 at 3:41:23 PM UTC-7, Ken Seto wrote:
    On Tuesday, October 24, 2023 at 5:49:01 AM UTC-4, JanPB wrote:
    On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 10:42:36 AM UTC-7, Ken Seto wrote:
    Their failures are based on the following faulty assumptions:
    1. Every SR observer is faultily assumed to be in a state of absolute rest in space
    SR makes no such assumption.ow come

    Then how come a clock moving wrt the SR observer runs at a slower rate of 1/gamma?
    It doesn't run at a slower rate. Its rate is measured to be slower by a different
    clock.

    Nope, poor lying idiot. Clocks of GPS satellites run at the
    rate +4 compared to clocks of Earth, anyone can check.



    The source of this phenomenon is unknown

    The source of the "phenomenon" are sick delusions of an insane
    crazie.

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  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to Tom Roberts on Fri Oct 27 23:27:32 2023
    On Saturday, 28 October 2023 at 01:02:09 UTC+2, Tom Roberts wrote:
    On 10/27/23 5:33 PM, Ken Seto wrote:
    how come every SR observer claims that all clocks moving wrt him
    are running slow?
    They don't. Anyone who understands modern physics knows that all clocks ALWAYS run at their usual rate, never "slowing" (or speeding up). Such

    Such delusions, however, are nothing but some
    crappy delusions, as anyone can check in GPS.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From The Starmaker@21:1/5 to Ken Seto on Sun Oct 29 01:36:09 2023
    Ken Seto wrote:

    On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 2:00:01 AM UTC-4, The Starmaker wrote:
    Ken Seto wrote:

    Their failures are based on the following faulty assumptions:
    1. Every SR observer is faultily assumed to be in a state of absolute rest in space (the aether or the E-Matrix). And thus every SR observer faultily assumes that a clock moving wrt him is running slower. In real life a clock moving wrt the
    observer is accumulating clock seconds at a slower rate of 1/gamma or faster rate of gamma.

    2. I have formulated a complete theory of relativity called IRT. IRT is included in My book: Model Mechanics :The Final Theory.

    3. Please read my book before comment.

    Thank you ,
    Ken Seto


    can you post a link, please?


    --
    The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unmet website that contains the linkaskable,
    to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable,
    and challenge the unchallengeable.

    For reasons unknown, Microsoft destroyed my website that contains the link for my book. I tried to reactiveate the site but failed.
    However, Amazon saw the value of my book and they post my book in their site. I can open their link as follows:
    Amazon_Book Online(1).pdf
    If you can't get the book in the above link, I can email it to you.

    Ken Seto


    "reactiveate"???? Don't you mean find a host for your website name?

    The Truth is you own the website name you, just don't have anybody hosting it now. It's PARKED.


    But, telling you dat is hopeless.


    Do you still need these files?


    http://web.archive.org/web/20211208033204/http://www.modelmechanics.org/2015gravity.pdf

    http://web.archive.org/web/20161106112001/http://www.modelmechanics.org/2015irt.pdf



    (don't tell Bill Gates)





    --
    The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
    to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable,
    and challenge the unchallengeable.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ken Seto@21:1/5 to JanPB on Mon Oct 30 12:46:15 2023
    On Tuesday, October 24, 2023 at 5:49:01 AM UTC-4, JanPB wrote:
    On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 10:42:36 AM UTC-7, Ken Seto wrote:
    Their failures are based on the following faulty assumptions:
    1. Every SR observer is faultily assumed to be in a state of absolute rest in space
    SR makes no such assumption.

    So an SR observer doesn't say that a clock moving wrt him is accumulating clock second at a slower rate of 1/gamma????
    What does SR say?

    (the aether or the E-Matrix). And thus every SR observer faultily assumes that a clock moving wrt him is running slower.
    Therefore, N/A.
    In real life a clock moving wrt the observer is accumulating clock seconds at a slower rate of 1/gamma or faster rate of gamma.
    N/A.


    2. I have formulated a complete theory of relativity called IRT. IRT is included in My book: Model Mechanics :The Final Theory.
    You are wasting your time.

    SR is superseded by IRT.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ken Seto@21:1/5 to Tom Roberts on Mon Oct 30 13:15:14 2023
    On Friday, October 27, 2023 at 7:02:09 PM UTC-4, Tom Roberts wrote:
    On 10/27/23 5:33 PM, Ken Seto wrote:
    how come every SR observer claims that all clocks moving wrt him
    are running slow?
    They don't.
    Yes they do.....text book says that a clock moving wrt the SR observer is accumulating clock second by a factor of 1/gamma.

    Anyone who understands modern physics knows that all clocks
    ALWAYS run at their usual rate, never "slowing" (or speeding up). Such

    This is a faulty assumption.
    It assumes that a clock second is an absolute interval of time......it is not. Also run at their usual rate has no meaning ......it assumes that a clock second is an absolute interval of time in all frames.....it is not.

    people recognize that when observing a moving clock BY PROJECTING ITS
    TICKS ONTO THEIR INERTIAL REST FRAME they will OBSERVE the moving clock

    Clocks in relative motion accumuate clock seconds at different rate....this is confirmed by experiments.

    to tick more slowly than their coordinate clocks; that of course does
    not affect how the clock ITSELF is ticking.

    You REALLY need to learn what SR actually says, rather than repeatedly

    They had to add 4.1617 transitions to the GPS second to make it equal to the ground clock second in turn absolute time.


    Roberts

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Ken Seto@21:1/5 to All on Wed Nov 1 08:32:45 2023
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  • From Ken Seto@21:1/5 to JanPB on Wed Nov 1 08:23:02 2023
    On Friday, October 27, 2023 at 11:55:20 PM UTC-4, JanPB wrote:
    On Friday, October 27, 2023 at 3:41:23 PM UTC-7, Ken Seto wrote:
    On Tuesday, October 24, 2023 at 5:49:01 AM UTC-4, JanPB wrote:
    On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 10:42:36 AM UTC-7, Ken Seto wrote:
    Their failures are based on the following faulty assumptions:
    1. Every SR observer is faultily assumed to be in a state of absolute rest in space
    SR makes no such assumption.ow come

    Then how come a clock moving wrt the SR observer runs at a slower rate of 1/gamma?
    It doesn't run at a slower rate. Its rate is measured to be slower by a different
    clock. (Reread the last sentence until you see why this is a very different claim
    that the sentence preceding it.)

    SR math says that it runs at a slower rate compared to your clock.

    The source of this phenomenon is unknown, all we know so far is that it can be
    modelled mathematically in terms of certain geometry. The immediately observable
    "reason" is that the speed of light is in a certain well-defined experimental
    sense an invariant.
    The source of this phenomena is due to the different clocks are in different states of absolute motions.

    Einstein was the first to notice this correlation. Physicists before him thought
    only that there was something peculiar about Maxwell's equations, and they quantified
    this peculiarity. But they didn't see the more direct correlation with space and time.

    Einstein failed to include absolute motion of the two clocks.

    --
    Jan

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  • From Ken Seto@21:1/5 to JanPB on Wed Nov 1 13:12:39 2023
    On Friday, October 27, 2023 at 11:55:20 PM UTC-4, JanPB wrote:
    On Friday, October 27, 2023 at 3:41:23 PM UTC-7, Ken Seto wrote:
    On Tuesday, October 24, 2023 at 5:49:01 AM UTC-4, JanPB wrote:
    On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 10:42:36 AM UTC-7, Ken Seto wrote:
    Their failures are based on the following faulty assumptions:
    1. Every SR observer is faultily assumed to be in a state of absolute rest in space
    SR makes no such assumption.ow come

    Then how come a clock moving wrt the SR observer runs at a slower rate of 1/gamma?
    It doesn't run at a slower rate. of 1/gamma

    It does. It accumulates clock seconds at a rate 1/gamma) compare to your clock (the SR observer.)
    Its rate is measured to be slower by a different/
    clock. (Reread the last sentence until you see why this is a very different claim
    that the sentence preceding it.)

    How do you measure the rate f a remote clock?

    The source of this phenomenon is unknown,
    It is known.....it is due to different states of absolute motion between the two clocks.

    all we know so far is that it can be s
    modelled mathematically in terms of certain geometry. The immediately observable
    "reason" is that the speed of light is in a certain well-defined experimental
    sense an invariant.

    Einstein was the first to notice this correlation. Physicists before him thought
    only that there was something peculiar about Maxwell's equations, and they quantified
    this peculiarity. But they didn't see the more direct correlation with space and time.
    used to include absolute
    Einstein failed because he refused to include the effects of absolute motion.

    --
    Jan

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  • From mitchrae3323@gmail.com@21:1/5 to Jon Michael Jatzyshin on Wed Nov 1 20:13:14 2023
    On Wednesday, November 1, 2023 at 2:42:56 PM UTC-7, Jon Michael Jatzyshin wrote:
    Ken Seto wrote:

    Then how come a clock moving wrt the SR observer runs at a slower
    rate of 1/gamma?
    It doesn't run at a slower rate. of 1/gamma

    It does. It accumulates clock seconds at a rate 1/gamma) compare to your clock (the SR observer.)

    Gamma slow time is manifesting. It is part of space travel.
    Aging slow makes contact's distance travel more efficient.


    Mitchell Raemsch

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  • From Ken Seto@21:1/5 to All on Fri Nov 3 08:32:28 2023
    T24gV2VkbmVzZGF5LCBOb3ZlbWJlciAxLCAyMDIzIGF0IDU6NDI6NTbigK9QTSBVVEMtNCwgSm9u IE1pY2hhZWwgSmF0enlzaGluIHdyb3RlOg0KPiBLZW4gU2V0byB3cm90ZTogDQo+IA0KPiA+PiA+ IFRoZW4gaG93IGNvbWUgYSBjbG9jayBtb3Zpbmcgd3J0IHRoZSBTUiBvYnNlcnZlciBydW5zIGF0 IGEgc2xvd2VyIA0KPiA+PiA+IHJhdGUgb2YgMS9nYW1tYT8gDQo+ID4+IEl0IGRvZXNuJ3QgcnVu IGF0IGEgc2xvd2VyIHJhdGUuIG9mIDEvZ2FtbWEgDQo+ID4gDQo+ID4gSXQgZG9lcy4gSXQgYWNj dW11bGF0ZXMgY2xvY2sgc2Vjb25kcyBhdCBhIHJhdGUgMS9nYW1tYSkgY29tcGFyZSB0byB5b3Vy IA0KPiA+IGNsb2NrICh0aGUgU1Igb2JzZXJ2ZXIuKQ0KPiB0aGF0J3Mgbm90IHRoZSBzYW1lIHRo aW5nLCB5b3Ugc3R1cGlkIGZ1Y2suIFRoaW5rLiANCg0KSGV5ICBzdHVwaWQgZnVjayBmYWNlLi4u Li4uLnNvIGFjY3VtdWxhdGluZyBjbG9jayBzZWNvbmQgYXQgYSByYXRlIG9mIDEvZ2FtbWEgaXMg bm90IGEgc2xvd2VyIHJhdGU/DQo+IA0KPiANCj4g8J2Xp/Cdl7bwnZe68J2XvPCdl7PwnZey8J2Y hl/wnZeV8J2XvPCdl7/wnZex8J2XrvCdl7DwnZe18J2XsvCdmIM6X/Cdl6fwnZe18J2Xsl/wnZe0 8J2XufCdl7zwnZev8J2XrvCdl7lf8J2XuvCdl67wnZe38J2XvPCdl7/wnZe28J2YgfCdmIZf8J2X tvCdmIBf8J2YgPCdl7XwnZe88J2XsPCdl7jwnZey8J2XsV/wnZev8J2Yhl/wnZiB8J2XtfCdl7Jf 8J2XtfCdmIbwnZe98J2XvPCdl7DwnZe/8J2XtvCdmIDwnZiGIA0KPiDwnZe88J2Xs1/wnZiB8J2X tfCdl7Jf8J2XqvCdl7LwnZiA8J2YgV/wnZe28J2Xu1/wnZiB8J2XtfCdl7Jf8J2XnPCdmIDwnZe/ 8J2XrvCdl7LwnZe5LfCdl6PwnZeu8J2XufCdl7LwnZiA8J2YgfCdl7bwnZe78J2Xsl/wnZew8J2X vPCdl7vwnZez8J2XufCdl7bwnZew8J2YgSAgZmFjZS4uLi4NCj4gQ3VycmVudCBsZWFkZXJzIGlu IE5vcnRoIEFtZXJpY2EgYW5kIFdlc3Rlcm4gRXVyb3BlIGFyZSBkZXN0cm95aW5nIHRoZSANCj4g c3lzdGVtIHRoYXQgdW5kZXJwaW5uZWQgdGhlaXIgb3duIHByb3NwZXJpdHkgDQo+IGh0dHBzOi8v ciU3NC5jb20vbmV3cy81ODYzODAtZ2xvYmFsLW1ham9yaXR5LWlzLXNob2NrZWQvIA0KPiANCj4g VGhhbmtzIEdvZCB0aGVyZSBpcyB0aGUgZ2xvYmFsIG1ham9yaXR5IHdobyBjYW4gc3RpbGwgdGhp bmsgc3RyYWlnaHQuIA0KPiANCj4gU29vbiBvbmNlIHRoZSBaaW9uaXN0cyBhbmQgdGhlaXIgc2xh dmVzIGFyZSBkZWZlYXRlZCBpbiB0aGUgYmF0dGxlZmllbGQgb2YgDQo+IHRoZSBNaWRkbGUgRWFz dCwgdGhlIGRvbWlub2VzIHdpbGwgc3RhcnQgZmFsbGluZywgdGhlaXIgZW1waXJlIG9mIGxpZXMg YW5kIA0KPiBoeXBvY3Jpc3kgd2lsbCBlbmQgYW5kIGEgZmFyIGJldHRlciB3b3JsZCB3aWxsIGVt ZXJnZS4gDQo+IA0KPiBNYWpvcml0eSBvZiB0aGUgZ2Vub2NpZGVzIGNvbW1pdHRlZCBpbiB0aGlz IHdvcmxkIHdhcyBkb25lIGJ5IHRoZSB3ZXN0IGFuZCANCj4gaXQncyBub3Qgc3VycHJpc2luZyB0 byBzZWUgdGhlbSBzcG9uc29yaW5nIGlzcmVhbGkgZ2Vub2NpZGUuDQo=

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Ken Seto@21:1/5 to Shain Baumgarten on Sat Nov 4 06:08:04 2023
    On Friday, November 3, 2023 at 12:14:26 PM UTC-4, Shain Baumgarten wrote:
    Ken Seto wrote:

    On Wednesday, November 1, 2023 at 5:42:56 PM UTC-4, Jon Michael Jatzyshin
    wrote:
    Ken Seto wrote:
    Then how come a clock moving wrt the SR observer runs at a slower
    rate of 1/gamma?
    It doesn't run at a slower rate. of 1/gamma

    It does. It accumulates clock seconds at a rate 1/gamma) compare to
    your clock (the SR observer.)
    that's not the same thing, you stupid fuck. Think.

    Hey stupid fuck face.......so accumulating clock second at a rate of 1/gamma is not a slower rate?
    you have to prove it, 𝗮𝘀𝘀_𝗳𝗮𝗰𝗲, by a described procedure. Describe it, you
    fucking uneducated idiot.

    I don't have to prove anything to a fuck face like you. You prove that a clock running
    at a rate of 1/gamma is not running slow.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Ken Seto@21:1/5 to Tom Roberts on Sun Nov 5 05:56:11 2023
    On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 2:22:54 PM UTC-4, Tom Roberts wrote:
    On 10/23/23 12:42 PM, Ken Seto wrote:
    Their failures are based on the following faulty assumptions: 1.
    Every SR observer is faultily assumed to be in a state of absolute
    rest [...]

    This is just plain not true -- SR makes no such "assumption", indeed
    this is nonsensical in SR.

    Then how come every SR observer predicts all clocks moving wrt to him are running slow
    by a factor of 1/gama????

    2. I have formulated a complete theory of relativity called IRT. IRT
    is included in My book: Model Mechanics :The Final Theory.

    3. Please read my book before comment.
    No need. You are CLEARLY incompetent, and whatever you write is useless.

    Tom Roberts

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  • From Tom Roberts@21:1/5 to Ken Seto on Sun Nov 5 09:03:49 2023
    On 11/5/23 7:56 AM, Ken Seto wrote:
    how come every SR observer predicts all clocks moving wrt to him are
    running slow by a factor of 1/gama????

    NOBODY who understands SR predicts that, because SR predicts that every
    clock always runs at its usual rate. But they also predict that if I
    measure the rate of a moving clock using my inertial rest frame, I will
    MEASURE it to run at 1/gamma times its usual rate. This is NOT the clock itself, this is a measurement in SOME OTHER INERTIAL FRAME.

    It's unfortunate how many times you have been told this, and yet you
    keep making the same false claim. It seems you are unable to read. How sad.

    Tom Roberts

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  • From Ken Seto@21:1/5 to Tom Roberts on Sun Nov 5 08:20:16 2023
    On Sunday, November 5, 2023 at 10:04:03 AM UTC-5, Tom Roberts wrote:
    On 11/5/23 7:56 AM, Ken Seto wrote:
    how come every SR observer predicts all clocks moving wrt to him are running slow by a factor of 1/gama????
    NOBODY who understands SR predicts that, because SR predicts that every clock always runs at its usual rate.
    I don't accept these double talking because you assumed that a clock second is an
    absolute interval of time......it is not.
    Also every clock always runs at its usual rate has no meaning. It is better to say
    that every relative clock accumulate clock seconds at different rates.
    .
    But they also predict that if I
    measure the rate of a moving clock using my inertial rest frame, I will MEASURE it to run at 1/gamma times its usual rate. This is NOT the clock t rates.
    itself, this is a measure't accept this ment in SOME OTHER INERTIAL FRAME.

    It is the clocks themself......that's why clocks in relative motion accumulate clock seconds at different rates. BTW, how do you measure the rate of a clock moving wrt you?


    It's unfortunate how many times you have been told this, and yet you
    keep making the same false claim. It seems you are unable to read. How sad.

    I can only accept at the truth.....not what I been told.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to Tom Roberts on Sun Nov 5 09:30:32 2023
    On Sunday, 5 November 2023 at 16:04:03 UTC+1, Tom Roberts wrote:
    On 11/5/23 7:56 AM, Ken Seto wrote:
    how come every SR observer predicts all clocks moving wrt to him are running slow by a factor of 1/gama????
    NOBODY who understands SR predicts that, because SR predicts that every
    clock always runs at its usual rate.

    And thus, The Shit is falsified by GPS clocks running at
    9 192 631 774 instead 9 192 631 770. Your insane
    screams of THE BEST WAY we're FORCED to - simply don't
    work.

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  • From Tom Roberts@21:1/5 to Maciej Wozniak on Sun Nov 5 21:35:13 2023
    On 11/5/23 11:30 AM, Maciej Wozniak wrote:
    The Shit is falsified by GPS clocks running at
    9 192 631 774 instead 9 192 631 770.

    I have no idea what you mean by "The Shit", but General Relativity is
    CONFIRMED by the rate of GPS satellite clocks.

    Tom Roberts

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  • From Tom Roberts@21:1/5 to Ken Seto on Sun Nov 5 21:33:21 2023
    On 11/5/23 10:20 AM, Ken Seto wrote:
    On Sunday, November 5, 2023 at 10:04:03 AM UTC-5, Tom Roberts wrote:
    On 11/5/23 7:56 AM, Ken Seto wrote:
    how come every SR observer predicts all clocks moving wrt to him
    are running slow by a factor of 1/gama????
    NOBODY who understands SR predicts that, because SR predicts that
    every clock always runs at its usual rate.
    I don't accept these double talking because you assumed that a clock
    second is an absolute interval of time......it is not.

    Doesn't matter. Every Cs-133 atomic clock ticks at 9,192,631,770 Hz,
    because that is the definition of the second. This is completely
    independent of whatever you mean by "absolute interval of time" (a
    phrase you have NEVER defined sufficiently precisely).

    Also every clock always runs at its usual rate has no meaning.

    Sure it does. It negates your claim that "moving clocks run slow". For
    Cs-133 atomic clocks, their usual rate is 9,192,631,770 Hz; other types
    of clocks have different usual rates.

    It is better to say that every relative clock accumulate clock
    seconds at different rates.

    BUT THEY DON'T. Every Cs-133 clock accumulates ticks at 9,192,631,770
    Hz, independent of how it might be moving or where it might be located.

    You keep confusing what a clock does with how it is observed/measured
    from SOME OTHER INERTIAL FRAME. They are NOT the same.

    I give up; don't expect me to continue until you learn how to read, and
    learn basic physics.

    Tom Roberts

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  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to Tom Roberts on Sun Nov 5 21:59:32 2023
    On Monday, 6 November 2023 at 04:33:34 UTC+1, Tom Roberts wrote:
    On 11/5/23 10:20 AM, Ken Seto wrote:
    On Sunday, November 5, 2023 at 10:04:03 AM UTC-5, Tom Roberts wrote:
    On 11/5/23 7:56 AM, Ken Seto wrote:
    how come every SR observer predicts all clocks moving wrt to him
    are running slow by a factor of 1/gama????
    NOBODY who understands SR predicts that, because SR predicts that
    every clock always runs at its usual rate.
    I don't accept these double talking because you assumed that a clock second is an absolute interval of time......it is not.
    Doesn't matter. Every Cs-133 atomic clock ticks at 9,192,631,770 Hz,


    But anyone can check GPS, it's 9,192,631,774 on a satellite there.
    Common sense was warning your idiot guru.

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  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to Tom Roberts on Sun Nov 5 21:57:15 2023
    On Monday, 6 November 2023 at 04:35:26 UTC+1, Tom Roberts wrote:
    On 11/5/23 11:30 AM, Maciej Wozniak wrote:
    The Shit is falsified by GPS clocks running at
    9 192 631 774 instead 9 192 631 770.
    I have no idea what you mean by "The Shit",

    A l,ie, of course.

    but General Relativity is
    CONFIRMED by the rate of GPS satellite clocks.

    And another lie. You've said yourself - The Shit is
    predicting clocks to run everywhere at the same rate.
    In GPS they're not, the prediction is falsified, goodbye,
    The Shit.
    Common sense was warning your idiot guru.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Ken Seto@21:1/5 to Tom Roberts on Mon Nov 6 08:52:21 2023
    On Sunday, November 5, 2023 at 10:33:34 PM UTC-5, Tom Roberts wrote:
    On 11/5/23 10:20 AM, Ken Seto wrote:
    On Sunday, November 5, 2023 at 10:04:03 AM UTC-5, Tom Roberts wrote:
    On 11/5/23 7:56 AM, Ken Seto wrote:
    how come every SR observer predicts all clocks moving wrt to him
    are running slow by a factor of 1/gama????
    NOBODY who understands SR predicts that, because SR predicts that
    every clock always runs at its usual rate.
    I don't accept these double talking because you assumed that a clock second is an absolute interval of time......it is not.
    Doesn't matter. Every Cs-133 atomic clock ticks at 9,192,631,770 Hz,
    because that is the definition of the second. This is completely
    independent of whatever you mean by "absolute interval of time" (a
    phrase you have NEVER defined sufficiently precisely).
    Also every clock always runs at its usual rate has no meaning.
    Sure it does. It negates your claim that "moving clocks run slow". For Cs-133 atomic clocks, their usual rate is 9,192,631,770 Hz; other types
    of clocks have different usual rates.es.
    9,19
    You failed to understand that 9,192,6 31,770 Hz of Cs-133 atomic clock is not an absolute interval of time in different frames. For example:
    9,192,631,770 Hz in frame A is equal gamma(9.192,631,770 Hz) in frame B.

    It is better to say that every relative clock accumulate cl o
    seconds at different rates.
    BUT THEY DON'T. Every Cs-133 clock accumulates ticks at 9,192,631,770
    Hz, independent of how it might be moving or where it might be located.

    You keep confusing what a clock does with how it is observed/measured
    from SOME OTHER INERTIAL FRAME. They are NOT the same.

    I give up; don't expect me to continue until you learn how to read, and learn basic physics.

    Sorry, It is you who failed to understand the concept of time.
    The only time exists is absolute time. A clock second contains a different interval
    of absolute time in different frames.


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Volney@21:1/5 to Maciej Wozniak on Mon Nov 6 12:35:23 2023
    On 11/6/2023 12:57 AM, Maciej Wozniak wrote:
    On Monday, 6 November 2023 at 04:35:26 UTC+1, Tom Roberts wrote:

    but General Relativity is
    CONFIRMED by the rate of GPS satellite clocks.

    And another lie. You've said yourself - The Shit is
    predicting clocks to run everywhere at the same rate.
    In GPS they're not, the prediction is falsified, goodbye,
    The Shit.

    I realize educating you is a lost cause, but I'll repeat anyway: On
    board a GPS satellite, 1 second is equal to 9,192,631,770 cycles of its
    onboard Cs clock. As we know there is another divisor, one cycle per 9,192,631,774.1 cycles, but the GPS satellite observer sees this clock
    as slightly slower than 1 pulse per second. This value was deliberately
    chosen so that, when the signal is blueshifted on its trip to the
    ground, it is received at one pulse per second.

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  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to Volney on Mon Nov 6 10:04:59 2023
    On Monday, 6 November 2023 at 18:35:26 UTC+1, Volney wrote:
    On 11/6/2023 12:57 AM, Maciej Wozniak wrote:
    On Monday, 6 November 2023 at 04:35:26 UTC+1, Tom Roberts wrote:

    but General Relativity is
    CONFIRMED by the rate of GPS satellite clocks.

    And another lie. You've said yourself - The Shit is
    predicting clocks to run everywhere at the same rate.
    In GPS they're not, the prediction is falsified, goodbye,
    The Shit.
    I realize educating you is a lost cause, but I'll repeat anyway:

    Sure, repeat your idiocies as many times as you want,
    Fool yourself even more. Do it! Setting clocks to your
    ISO idiocy must be Newton mode - as it doesn't work.
    Right, stupid Mike?


    On
    board a GPS satellite, 1 second is equal to 9,192,631,770 cycles of its

    Even that idiot Roberts is admitting that a second of
    GPS is different from the one of your moronic
    gedanken delusions. And it is. So, no, it is
    equal to ~9,192,631,774.

    as slightly slower than 1 pulse per second. This value was deliberately chosen so

    It was chosen so, ignorig the mad screams of Roberts insisting
    we're FORCED not to choose so. No, we're not. Common sense
    was warning your idiot guru.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Mike Fontenot@21:1/5 to All on Mon Nov 6 15:52:48 2023
    On 11/5/23 7:56 AM, Ken Seto wrote:
    how come every SR observer predicts all clocks moving wrt to him are
    running slow by a factor of 1/gama????


    The correct statement is that every INERTIAL OBSERVER (i.e., every
    person who is stationary in an inertial frame) will conclude (by actual measurement, with help by other people stationary in his frame) that any
    clock moving with respect to him will run slower that his own clocks, by
    the factor gamma.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Tom Roberts@21:1/5 to Mike Fontenot on Mon Nov 6 17:36:58 2023
    On 11/6/23 4:52 PM, Mike Fontenot wrote:
    The correct statement is that every INERTIAL OBSERVER (i.e., every
    person who is stationary in an inertial frame) will conclude (by
    actual measurement, with help by other people stationary in his
    frame) that any clock moving with respect to him will run slower
    that his own clocks, by the factor gamma.

    ["that" => "than"]

    That is NOT correct, and they will conclude that only if they are
    idiots who don't understand SR. Yes, their MEASUREMENTS will be slower
    than their own clocks, but that has NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER on the moving
    clocks, each of which runs at its usual rate, not "slower". You MUST distinguish between what an inertial frame measures for a moving clock,
    and how that moving clock behaves -- the former cannot possibly affect
    the latter, but that's what you claim here.

    You keep using wishy-washy words that confuse both yourself and your
    readers. You REALLY need to learn how to write precisely.

    Tom Roberts

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  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to Tom Roberts on Mon Nov 6 22:48:14 2023
    On Tuesday, 7 November 2023 at 00:37:11 UTC+1, Tom Roberts wrote:
    On 11/6/23 4:52 PM, Mike Fontenot wrote:
    The correct statement is that every INERTIAL OBSERVER (i.e., every
    person who is stationary in an inertial frame) will conclude (by
    actual measurement, with help by other people stationary in his
    frame) that any clock moving with respect to him will run slower
    that his own clocks, by the factor gamma.
    ["that" => "than"]

    That is NOT correct, and they will conclude that only if they are
    idiots who don't understand SR. Yes, their MEASUREMENTS will be slower

    Having GPS, we can be absolutely sure that real MEASUREMENTS
    have little in common with your absurd delusions.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Ken Seto@21:1/5 to Mike Fontenot on Tue Nov 7 14:52:07 2023
    On Monday, November 6, 2023 at 5:52:52 PM UTC-5, Mike Fontenot wrote:
    On 11/5/23 7:56 AM, Ken Seto wrote:
    how come every SR observer predicts all clocks moving wrt to him are
    running slow by a factor of 1/gama????

    The correct statement is that every INERTIAL OBSERVER (i.e., every
    person who is stationary in an inertial frame) will conclude (by actual measurement, with help by other people stationary in his frame) that any clock moving with respect to him will run slower that his own clocks, by
    the factor gamma.
    There is no initial frame on earth..
    Every SR observer wrongly assumed that he is in an inertial frame.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Mike Fontenot@21:1/5 to Tom Roberts on Wed Nov 8 12:58:30 2023
    On 11/6/23 4:36 PM, Tom Roberts wrote:
    On 11/6/23 4:52 PM, Mike Fontenot wrote:
    The correct statement is that every INERTIAL OBSERVER (i.e., every
    person who is stationary in an inertial frame) will conclude (by
    actual measurement, with help by other people stationary in his frame)
    that any clock moving with respect to him will run slower
    than his own clocks, by the factor gamma.

    [...] (Tom replies):
    Yes, their MEASUREMENTS will be slower
    than their own clocks, but that has NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER on the moving
    clocks [...]

    And I, (Mike Fontenot), reply:

    That's true. I've never claimed otherwise.

    It is also important to understand that the people who are stationary in
    that inertial frame synchronized their clocks (that are stationary in
    that frame) using ONLY the fact that light travels at 186,000 miles per
    second in their frame (plus the fact that their clocks are separated by identical yardsticks).

    So if they for some reason later decide that their clocks are NOT
    synchronized, they must ALSO conclude that light is NOT traveling at
    186,000 miles per second in their frame. But THAT is THE fundamental assumption in Special Relativity.

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  • From Kevin Aylward@21:1/5 to Ken Seto on Thu Nov 23 20:23:47 2023
    "Tom Roberts" wrote in message news:U4ycnQSP7YIcw9X4nZ2dnZfqlJ9j4p2d@giganews.com...

    On 11/5/23 10:20 AM, Ken Seto wrote:
    On Sunday, November 5, 2023 at 10:04:03 AM UTC-5, Tom Roberts wrote:
    On 11/5/23 7:56 AM, Ken Seto wrote:
    how come every SR observer predicts all clocks moving wrt to him are
    running slow by a factor of 1/gama????
    NOBODY who understands SR predicts that, because SR predicts that every
    clock always runs at its usual rate.
    I don't accept these double talking because you assumed that a clock
    second is an absolute interval of time......it is not.

    Doesn't matter. Every Cs-133 atomic clock ticks at 9,192,631,770 Hz,
    because that is the definition of the second. This is completely
    independent of whatever you mean by "absolute interval of time" (a
    phrase you have NEVER defined sufficiently precisely).

    Also every clock always runs at its usual rate has no meaning.

    Sure it does. It negates your claim that "moving clocks run slow". For >>Cs-133 atomic clocks, their usual rate is 9,192,631,770 Hz; other types
    of clocks have different usual rates.

    It is better to say that every relative clock accumulate clock seconds at
    different rates.

    BUT THEY DON'T. Every Cs-133 clock accumulates ticks at 9,192,631,770
    Hz, independent of how it might be moving or where it might be located.

    Sure, that's the SR *interpretation* of the Lorentz transform, its not the
    only valid one.

    There is no way to prove that that interpretation is actually correct. Its
    only an *assumption* that the clocks tick independent of inertial frame,
    based on the POR

    Another equally valid interpretation is that clocks do what they are
    actually measured to do, and run at different rates. This leads to, as one alternative, the Lorentz Ether Theory

    However, the particular ether of Lorentz is not a requirement, only a background field is required. We know the vacuum isn't empty... Einstein didn't....so there you go....

    I do agree, that the vast majority don't understand that according to SR, clocks don't change their tick rate.

    For example, the well known pop media "Physicist" Neil deGrasse Tyson Ph.D

    1:30 "...The slower time ticks for you..."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BCkSYQ0NRQ -- Neil deGrasse Tyson Explains Time Dilation



    You keep confusing what a clock does with how it is observed/measured
    from SOME OTHER INERTIAL FRAME. They are NOT the same.

    I give up; don't expect me to continue until you learn how to read, and
    learn basic physics.

    Professional physicist's usually phrase matters such as this as "according
    to SR, clocks run at the same rate independent of inertial frame"

    They don't claim absolutes, when it is known that they are alternatives.

    For example in quantum mechanics one might point out several alternatives interpretations of the Schrodinger Equation, such as the MWI or Bohmian Mechanics.

    Not many actually go "the multiverse of QM is the way it is"

    SR is only a mathematical model of observations. By construction, it don't
    say why/how the model actually works.

    Its "space-time" is physically real, but isn't due to a physical substance,
    is obviously self contradictory and hence wrong.

    Its incredible that such a notion is still entertained.

    Lee Smolin:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2013/jun/10/time-reborn-farewell-reality-review

    "...And by making the clock's tick relative - what happens simultaneously
    for one observer might seem sequential to another - Einstein's theory of special relativity not only destroyed any notion of absolute time but made
    time equivalent to a dimension in space: the future is already out there waiting for us; we just can't see it until we get there. This view is a
    logical and metaphysical dead end, says Smolin."

    https://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/gr/misc/Geometry&Relativity.html


    -- https://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/gr/index.html - General Relativity http://www.anasoft.co.uk/ SuperSpice Simulation http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/ee/index.html - Electronics

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  • From Tom Roberts@21:1/5 to Kevin Aylward on Wed Nov 29 22:07:37 2023
    On 11/23/23 2:23 PM, Kevin Aylward wrote:
    Sure, that's the SR *interpretation* of the Lorentz transform, [...] Its only an *assumption* that the clocks tick independent of inertial
    frame, based on the POR

    It's much more than merely an "assumption", it is part and parcel of an
    entire MODEL that accurately predicts zillions of experimental results.

    Another equally valid interpretation is that clocks do what they are
    actually measured to do, and run at different rates. This leads to, as
    one alternative, the Lorentz Ether Theory

    Which is a theoretical dead end that does not lead to QED, the standard
    model, or GR. It also contains distasteful assumptions: an ether that is
    an "unmoved mover" that is itself completely unobservable yet controls
    the basic behavior of the universe. Moreover, LET cannot explain the
    weak or strong interactions, and does not lead to a relativistic version
    of QM.

    In short, LET is based on MAGIC, while SR is based on symmetry (local
    Lorentz invariance).

    [SR's] "space-time" is physically real,

    No! No! NO!!! In SR (and GR) spacetime is part of the MODEL, not the
    world. You REALLY need to learn what science actually is -- we make
    models of the world -- we do not attempt "to explain how the world
    works", but only to model its behavior.

    Tom Roberts

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