• Have you intellectual capacity to follow me =?UTF-8?Q?=3F=20?=

    From Richard Hachel@21:1/5 to All on Tue Oct 17 22:41:09 2023
    Einstein said a lot of stupid things in wanting to take Poincaré's
    teachings further.

    I think he deflected them more than carried them further.

    It is often said that the moving watch runs slower FOR the observer at
    rest in its frame of reference.

    This is a true statement, but a bit biased.

    Because the student of relativity, or the professor who says this,
    will begin to believe many things that may turn out to be false.

    The main and universal mistake (because everyone makes it)
    it is to confuse the relativistic concept of chronotropy and the concept
    of apprehended time.

    In fact, it is completely wrong to think "the watch is running slower", it
    is a very stupid shortcut of thinking. It's not the watch that runs
    slower, it's its internal mechanism. What Doctor Hachel calls his
    chronotropy. This effect, of the second degree, is reciprocal and depends
    only on the speed.

    But that's not all. We must also take into account the external movement
    of the watch, which crosses spaces in relation to the other, and vice
    versa. This effect is of the first degree and only depends on the
    position.

    The two effects cumulate, we can sometimes have, in total, a watch which approaches and which beats faster than the watch at rest.

    If this were not the case, the RR would be absurd.

    Two watches cannot have reciprocal chronotropy
    positive and mark each one more than the other shows. Which was also what
    we called Langevin's paradox.

    If we understand things correctly, we see with great clarity that Stella actually considered during her outward journey that Terrence's watch had
    an internal mechanism which beat less quickly, a phenomenon aggravated by
    a Doppler effect relating to the position of more further away, and
    therefore during the journey she ages much more than her brother (she ages
    nine years, while her brother, if we combine the effect on time of the
    first degree, only ages a total of three years ).
    But on the way back, even if the chronotropy (the internal mechanism of Terrence's watch) still beats just as slowly compared to it, the external effect of movement in space is such that Terrence's watch beats, in total,
    even with a slower internal mechanism, much faster. For Stella, Terrence
    will age 27 years during this return, while she only ages nine years.

    We therefore see that despite a perpetual internal chronotopy that is reciprocally greater for both, the external effects, even more important,
    mean that Stella's watch will score less while having had a stronger
    internal chronotropy.

    Is there anyone who understands what I just said?

    It seems that many do not have the intellectual capacity to follow me,
    even specialists in SR.

    It's really very unfortunate.

    R.H.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ross Finlayson@21:1/5 to Richard Hachel on Tue Oct 17 17:15:44 2023
    On Tuesday, October 17, 2023 at 3:41:13 PM UTC-7, Richard Hachel wrote:
    Einstein said a lot of stupid things in wanting to take Poincaré's teachings further.

    I think he deflected them more than carried them further.

    It is often said that the moving watch runs slower FOR the observer at
    rest in its frame of reference.

    This is a true statement, but a bit biased.

    Because the student of relativity, or the professor who says this,
    will begin to believe many things that may turn out to be false.

    The main and universal mistake (because everyone makes it)
    it is to confuse the relativistic concept of chronotropy and the concept
    of apprehended time.

    In fact, it is completely wrong to think "the watch is running slower", it is a very stupid shortcut of thinking. It's not the watch that runs
    slower, it's its internal mechanism. What Doctor Hachel calls his chronotropy. This effect, of the second degree, is reciprocal and depends only on the speed.

    But that's not all. We must also take into account the external movement
    of the watch, which crosses spaces in relation to the other, and vice
    versa. This effect is of the first degree and only depends on the
    position.

    The two effects cumulate, we can sometimes have, in total, a watch which approaches and which beats faster than the watch at rest.

    If this were not the case, the RR would be absurd.

    Two watches cannot have reciprocal chronotropy
    positive and mark each one more than the other shows. Which was also what
    we called Langevin's paradox.

    If we understand things correctly, we see with great clarity that Stella actually considered during her outward journey that Terrence's watch had
    an internal mechanism which beat less quickly, a phenomenon aggravated by
    a Doppler effect relating to the position of more further away, and therefore during the journey she ages much more than her brother (she ages nine years, while her brother, if we combine the effect on time of the
    first degree, only ages a total of three years ).
    But on the way back, even if the chronotropy (the internal mechanism of Terrence's watch) still beats just as slowly compared to it, the external effect of movement in space is such that Terrence's watch beats, in total, even with a slower internal mechanism, much faster. For Stella, Terrence will age 27 years during this return, while she only ages nine years.

    We therefore see that despite a perpetual internal chronotopy that is reciprocally greater for both, the external effects, even more important, mean that Stella's watch will score less while having had a stronger internal chronotropy.

    Is there anyone who understands what I just said?

    It seems that many do not have the intellectual capacity to follow me,
    even specialists in SR.

    It's really very unfortunate.

    R.H.

    No, I don't have enough "Hachel" in my head to follow any more at all.

    Time only slows is how it works out, sort of, real-valued physical quantities.

    Passing twins is kind of silly because, space contraction.

    Of course any observer sees their own clock at constant rate,
    and sees clocks falling away as slower, and approaching
    as same, with respect to "seeing" and propagation of images
    at only c, while the substance might be approaching as Galilean,
    as that the image seems inflates.

    Most people's only regular concerns are more like "this Sagnac
    laser gyro" or variously "resonances in electrical waves",
    vis-a-vis "lapping waves" and interference patterns, "twins".

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)