If so, where do you think you went wrong?
https://evolutionnews.org/2023/09/new-article-in-science-boosts-plausibility-of-a-primordial-pair/
If so, where do you think you went wrong?
https://evolutionnews.org/2023/09/new-article-in-science-boosts-plausibility-of-a-primordial-pair/
On 2023-09-20 11:30:06 +0000, patdolan said:
If so, where do you think you went wrong?
https://evolutionnews.org/2023/09/new-article-in-science-boosts-plausibility-of-a-primordial-pair/
Maybe your grasp of arithmetic is as weak as your grasp of physics and biology, but 1280 is bigger than 2.
--Athel, I congratulate your very close reading of the article. Yes, I know the the difference between 1280 and 2. Even their square roots multiplied by i (that is for you Legion). It's the ethos of the article, more than its literality that I rejoice
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 36 years; mainly
in England until 1987.
On Wednesday, September 20, 2023 at 7:29:40 AM UTC-7, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
On 2023-09-20 11:30:06 +0000, patdolan said:Athel, I congratulate your very close reading of the article. Yes, I know the the difference between 1280 and 2.
If so, where do you think you went wrong?Maybe your grasp of arithmetic is as weak as your grasp of physics and
https://evolutionnews.org/2023/09/new-article-in-science-boosts-plausibility-of-a-primordial-pair/
biology, but 1280 is bigger than 2.
--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 36 years; mainly
in England until 1987.
There were two Biblical bottlenecks. Not one. I'm surprised this article make no reference to the time when humanity shrank to but 8 individuals: Noah, his wife, three sons and daughters-in-law.
On 9/20/2023 1:28 PM, patdolan wrote:Volney,
On Wednesday, September 20, 2023 at 7:29:40 AM UTC-7, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:So you admit this isn't any sort of evidence of a bottleneck of 2, nor
On 2023-09-20 11:30:06 +0000, patdolan said:Athel, I congratulate your very close reading of the article. Yes, I know the the difference between 1280 and 2.
If so, where do you think you went wrong?Maybe your grasp of arithmetic is as weak as your grasp of physics and
https://evolutionnews.org/2023/09/new-article-in-science-boosts-plausibility-of-a-primordial-pair/
biology, but 1280 is bigger than 2.
--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 36 years; mainly
in England until 1987.
that of Noah. 1280 people is 1280 people, not 2.
There were two Biblical bottlenecks. Not one. I'm surprised this article make no reference to the time when humanity shrank to but 8 individuals: Noah, his wife, three sons and daughters-in-law.The effective size of that bottleneck wouldn't be 8 since Noah's sons
are obviously related to Noah and his wife, and each other. Also were
the daughters-in-law related to Noah or his wife in any way?
The problem with close relative marriage is that deleterious recessive
genes can be inherited from both parents, resulting in any of many nasty birth defects or inherited conditions. See the Hapsburg line of royalty
of Europe for a few examples, King Charles II of Spain in particular.
Also purebred (inbred) dog breeds with problems common to the breed, zoo animals etc.
On Wednesday, September 20, 2023 at 11:23:28 AM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
The effective size of that bottleneck wouldn't be 8 since Noah's sonsVolney,
are obviously related to Noah and his wife, and each other. Also were
the daughters-in-law related to Noah or his wife in any way?
The problem with close relative marriage is that deleterious recessive
genes can be inherited from both parents, resulting in any of many nasty
birth defects or inherited conditions. See the Hapsburg line of royalty
of Europe for a few examples, King Charles II of Spain in particular.
Also purebred (inbred) dog breeds with problems common to the breed, zoo
animals etc.
Each Noachiac child possesses single nukleotide polymorphisms entirely independent of Mr. and Mrs. Noah. These SNPs are the stuff of evolution.
On 9/20/2023 3:12 PM, patdolan wrote:I agree Volney. The Flood gene pool bottleneck ended the 800 year median life span for humans. Trees were not on the Arc because they didn't need to be. Plenty of cones and seeds survived the Flood just floating it out. Interestingly, trees
On Wednesday, September 20, 2023 at 11:23:28 AM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
The effective size of that bottleneck wouldn't be 8 since Noah's sonsVolney,
are obviously related to Noah and his wife, and each other. Also were
the daughters-in-law related to Noah or his wife in any way?
The problem with close relative marriage is that deleterious recessive
genes can be inherited from both parents, resulting in any of many nasty >> birth defects or inherited conditions. See the Hapsburg line of royalty >> of Europe for a few examples, King Charles II of Spain in particular.
Also purebred (inbred) dog breeds with problems common to the breed, zoo >> animals etc.
Each Noachiac child possesses single nukleotide polymorphisms entirely independent of Mr. and Mrs. Noah. These SNPs are the stuff of evolution.You mean there was lots of that biblical "knowing" and "begetting" hanky panky going on? Well that would still involve Mrs. Noah at minimum. And after the flood there would still be that severe bottleneck and those
bad genes popping up for generations.
On Wednesday, September 20, 2023 at 4:12:16 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
On 9/20/2023 3:12 PM, patdolan wrote:
Each Noachiac child possesses single nukleotide polymorphisms entirely independent of Mr. and Mrs. Noah. These SNPs are the stuff of evolution.
You mean there was lots of that biblical "knowing" and "begetting" hanky
panky going on? Well that would still involve Mrs. Noah at minimum. And
after the flood there would still be that severe bottleneck and those
bad genes popping up for generations.
I agree Volney. The Flood gene pool bottleneck ended the 800 year median life span for humans.
On 9/20/2023 7:33 PM, patdolan wrote:
On Wednesday, September 20, 2023 at 4:12:16 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
On 9/20/2023 3:12 PM, patdolan wrote:
Word Salad.Each Noachiac child possesses single nukleotide polymorphisms entirely independent of Mr. and Mrs. Noah. These SNPs are the stuff of evolution.
You mean there was lots of that biblical "knowing" and "begetting" hanky >> panky going on? Well that would still involve Mrs. Noah at minimum. And >> after the flood there would still be that severe bottleneck and those
bad genes popping up for generations.
I agree Volney. The Flood gene pool bottleneck ended the 800 year median life span for humans.There's no evidence humans ever had a lifespan of 800 years, much less a median 800 year lifespan. I don't believe any animal has a recorded
lifespan of that long,
would kill off the species. Even the Hapsburgs weren't that bad.
On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 10:12:08 AM UTC-7, patdolan wrote:really existed, millennia after the "story" supposedly occurred.
On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 8:45:20 AM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
On 9/20/2023 7:33 PM, patdolan wrote:
On Wednesday, September 20, 2023 at 4:12:16 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
On 9/20/2023 3:12 PM, patdolan wrote:
Word Salad.Each Noachiac child possesses single nukleotide polymorphisms entirely independent of Mr. and Mrs. Noah. These SNPs are the stuff of evolution.
You mean there was lots of that biblical "knowing" and "begetting" hanky
panky going on? Well that would still involve Mrs. Noah at minimum. And
after the flood there would still be that severe bottleneck and those >> bad genes popping up for generations.
That's because all animals died in the Flood too.I agree Volney. The Flood gene pool bottleneck ended the 800 year median life span for humans.There's no evidence humans ever had a lifespan of 800 years, much less a median 800 year lifespan. I don't believe any animal has a recorded lifespan of that long,
"For behold, I will bring a flood of waters upon the earth to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life under heaven. Everything that is on the earth shall die."You actually believe, word for word, that the "story" of Noah in the bible is 100% accurate? Based upon exactly what evidence? The bible was written hundreds of years after the death of a character known as Jesus of Nazareth who may or may not have
Dolan, I can make you a great deal on a bridge in Brooklyn... if you act fast, before someone else snaps it up!Muttonchops you damned fool. You think Paul wrote hundreds of years after Christ?
On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 8:45:20 AM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
On 9/20/2023 7:33 PM, patdolan wrote:
On Wednesday, September 20, 2023 at 4:12:16 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
On 9/20/2023 3:12 PM, patdolan wrote:
Word Salad.Each Noachiac child possesses single nukleotide polymorphisms entirely independent of Mr. and Mrs. Noah. These SNPs are the stuff of evolution.
You mean there was lots of that biblical "knowing" and "begetting" hanky
panky going on? Well that would still involve Mrs. Noah at minimum. And >> after the flood there would still be that severe bottleneck and those >> bad genes popping up for generations.
That's because all animals died in the Flood too.I agree Volney. The Flood gene pool bottleneck ended the 800 year median life span for humans.There's no evidence humans ever had a lifespan of 800 years, much less a median 800 year lifespan. I don't believe any animal has a recorded lifespan of that long,
"For behold, I will bring a flood of waters upon the earth to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life under heaven. Everything that is on the earth shall die."
On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 10:12:08 AM UTC-7, patdolan wrote:
On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 8:45:20 AM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
On 9/20/2023 7:33 PM, patdolan wrote:That's because all animals died in the Flood too.
On Wednesday, September 20, 2023 at 4:12:16 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote: >>>>> On 9/20/2023 3:12 PM, patdolan wrote:Word Salad.
Each Noachiac child possesses single nukleotide polymorphisms entirely independent of Mr. and Mrs. Noah. These SNPs are the stuff of evolution.
There's no evidence humans ever had a lifespan of 800 years, much less a >>> median 800 year lifespan. I don't believe any animal has a recordedYou mean there was lots of that biblical "knowing" and "begetting" hanky >>>>> panky going on? Well that would still involve Mrs. Noah at minimum. And >>>>> after the flood there would still be that severe bottleneck and those >>>>> bad genes popping up for generations.
I agree Volney. The Flood gene pool bottleneck ended the 800 year median life span for humans.
lifespan of that long,
"For behold, I will bring a flood of waters upon the earth to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life under heaven. Everything that is on the earth shall die."
You actually believe, word for word, that the "story" of Noah in the bible is 100% accurate? Based upon exactly what evidence?
Dolan, I can make you a great deal on a bridge in Brooklyn... if you act fast, before someone else snaps it up!
On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 5:29:41 PM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote:really existed, millennia after the "story" supposedly occurred.
On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 10:12:08 AM UTC-7, patdolan wrote:
"For behold, I will bring a flood of waters upon the earth to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life under heaven. Everything that is on the earth shall die."You actually believe, word for word, that the "story" of Noah in the bible is 100% accurate? Based upon exactly what evidence? The bible was written hundreds of years after the death of a character known as Jesus of Nazareth who may or may not have
Dolan, I can make you a great deal on a bridge in Brooklyn... if you act fast, before someone else snaps it up!
Muttonchops you damned fool. You think Paul wrote hundreds of years after Christ?
As for the Flood and the Old Testament, keep your eye out for the "For Muttonchops' Eyes Only" series of posts. Coming soon.
I look forward to your epistle regarding the Great Flood... I love a good work of fiction.
As always, any scrap of evidence would be good for your side... and good luck with that!
On 9/22/2023 12:03 AM, Paul Alsing wrote:
I look forward to your epistle regarding the Great Flood... I love a good work of fiction.
As always, any scrap of evidence would be good for your side... and good luck with that!
Several cultures have flood legends. One scientific theory is that the
Black Sea was an isolated body of water like the Caspian Sea is now. Its level was below sea level, and people settled along its shores. At some point in prehistory, sea levels rose and the Mediterranean Sea
overflowed what are now Bosporus/Dardanelles Straits and the Black Sea
rose up to sea level, flooding those along its shores, and the Black Sea
is no longer isolated from the world's oceans. The version now in the
Bible morphed into a worldwide flood as a punishment from God.
On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 9:48:10 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote:A $hit-ton of other sea creatures? It seems like a lot of *details* were exaggerated in the bible...
On 9/22/2023 12:03 AM, Paul Alsing wrote:
I look forward to your epistle regarding the Great Flood... I love a good work of fiction.
As always, any scrap of evidence would be good for your side... and good luck with that!
Several cultures have flood legends. One scientific theory is that the Black Sea was an isolated body of water like the Caspian Sea is now. Its level was below sea level, and people settled along its shores. At some point in prehistory, sea levels rose and the Mediterranean SeaSounds like a logical scenario. Having the entire world flood to the extent that *all* animals were destroyed except for those on the ark is pretty hard to swallow... or to defend. I suppose Noah had 2 sharks and 2 whales on his boat? Shrimp? Lobsters?
overflowed what are now Bosporus/Dardanelles Straits and the Black Sea rose up to sea level, flooding those along its shores, and the Black Sea is no longer isolated from the world's oceans. The version now in the Bible morphed into a worldwide flood as a punishment from God.
On 9/22/2023 12:03 AM, Paul Alsing wrote:EVERY culture has a world flood story.
I look forward to your epistle regarding the Great Flood... I love a good work of fiction.
As always, any scrap of evidence would be good for your side... and good luck with that!Several cultures have flood legends. One scientific theory is that the
Black Sea was an isolated body of water like the Caspian Sea is now. Its level was below sea level, and people settled along its shores. At some point in prehistory, sea levels rose and the Mediterranean Sea
overflowed what are now Bosporus/Dardanelles Straits and the Black Sea
rose up to sea level, flooding those along its shores, and the Black Sea
is no longer isolated from the world's oceans. The version now in the
Bible morphed into a worldwide flood as a punishment from God.
On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 9:48:10 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
On 9/22/2023 12:03 AM, Paul Alsing wrote:
I look forward to your epistle regarding the Great Flood... I love a good work of fiction.Several cultures have flood legends. One scientific theory is that the
As always, any scrap of evidence would be good for your side... and good luck with that!
Black Sea was an isolated body of water like the Caspian Sea is now. Its
level was below sea level, and people settled along its shores. At some
point in prehistory, sea levels rose and the Mediterranean Sea
overflowed what are now Bosporus/Dardanelles Straits and the Black Sea
rose up to sea level, flooding those along its shores, and the Black Sea
is no longer isolated from the world's oceans. The version now in the
Bible morphed into a worldwide flood as a punishment from God.
EVERY culture has a world flood story.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_myths
Conclusion there was no Flood. Competing conclusion: the sons and daughters-in-law of Grandpa and Grandma Noah passed on the Flood story with compelling authority.
On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 11:13:38 AM UTC-7, Volney wrote:event. An event that rang down the corridors of history. A myth told them by their originals parents: Japeth to the white man; Ham to the black; and Shem to the yellow.
On 9/22/2023 1:17 PM, patdolan wrote:
On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 9:48:10 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
On 9/22/2023 12:03 AM, Paul Alsing wrote:
I look forward to your epistle regarding the Great Flood... I love a good work of fiction.Several cultures have flood legends. One scientific theory is that the >> Black Sea was an isolated body of water like the Caspian Sea is now. Its
As always, any scrap of evidence would be good for your side... and good luck with that!
level was below sea level, and people settled along its shores. At some >> point in prehistory, sea levels rose and the Mediterranean Sea
overflowed what are now Bosporus/Dardanelles Straits and the Black Sea >> rose up to sea level, flooding those along its shores, and the Black Sea
is no longer isolated from the world's oceans. The version now in the >> Bible morphed into a worldwide flood as a punishment from God.
EVERY culture has a world flood story.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_mythsThat article never claims "EVERY" culture has a flood myth, just across
a "wide range" of cultures. It even starts off how Africa has relatively few flood legends, and in Egypt the floods were good, not catastrophic.
So you just made up garbage and pretended it was true.
All cultures have been used to spring flooding, flash floods, tsunamis from the sea, etc. Yet they never composed myths to those commonly occurring events. No Volney. All these ancient cultures composed their myths to a single, unique, gigantic worldConclusion there was no Flood. Competing conclusion: the sons and daughters-in-law of Grandpa and Grandma Noah passed on the Flood story with compelling authority.False dichotomy. Another conclusion, there were many different floods in
As for the evil God punishing all...Just as the flood was monumental, so too was the evil on the earth it was meant to punish. The evil spread from the first murder to engulf the world, we are told. Recall that animals didn't even eat each other untilmany different places causing many different cultures to have many different flood legends. And many with no flood legend, likely because they never experienced any flood catastrophic to live on in legend.
Not to mention, what kind of evil God punishes all humans except for 8, and every (air breathing) animal except for two of each species, for the evil of most humans. Why didn't God do a lot of "smiting" only the evil humans, leaving us with legends of, perhaps, a catastrophic thunderstorm of smiting leaving nearly every human dead instead. Nor do you address
how a lethally tight bottleneck of 2 (5 for humans) didn't cause the extinction of every species of air-breathing animal.
On 9/22/2023 1:17 PM, patdolan wrote:
On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 9:48:10 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
On 9/22/2023 12:03 AM, Paul Alsing wrote:
I look forward to your epistle regarding the Great Flood... I love a good work of fiction.Several cultures have flood legends. One scientific theory is that the
As always, any scrap of evidence would be good for your side... and good luck with that!
Black Sea was an isolated body of water like the Caspian Sea is now. Its >> level was below sea level, and people settled along its shores. At some >> point in prehistory, sea levels rose and the Mediterranean Sea
overflowed what are now Bosporus/Dardanelles Straits and the Black Sea
rose up to sea level, flooding those along its shores, and the Black Sea >> is no longer isolated from the world's oceans. The version now in the
Bible morphed into a worldwide flood as a punishment from God.
EVERY culture has a world flood story.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_mythsThat article never claims "EVERY" culture has a flood myth, just across
a "wide range" of cultures. It even starts off how Africa has relatively
few flood legends, and in Egypt the floods were good, not catastrophic.
So you just made up garbage and pretended it was true.
Conclusion there was no Flood. Competing conclusion: the sons and daughters-in-law of Grandpa and Grandma Noah passed on the Flood story with compelling authority.False dichotomy. Another conclusion, there were many different floods in
many different places causing many different cultures to have many
different flood legends. And many with no flood legend, likely because
they never experienced any flood catastrophic to live on in legend.
Not to mention, what kind of evil God punishes all humans except for 8,
and every (air breathing) animal except for two of each species, for the evil of most humans. Why didn't God do a lot of "smiting" only the evil humans, leaving us with legends of, perhaps, a catastrophic thunderstorm
of smiting leaving nearly every human dead instead. Nor do you address
how a lethally tight bottleneck of 2 (5 for humans) didn't cause the extinction of every species of air-breathing animal.
Recall that animals didn't even eat each other until Cain killed Abel.
On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 10:00:50 PM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote:Lobsters? A $hit-ton of other sea creatures? It seems like a lot of *details* were exaggerated in the bible...
On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 9:48:10 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
On 9/22/2023 12:03 AM, Paul Alsing wrote:
I look forward to your epistle regarding the Great Flood... I love a good work of fiction.
As always, any scrap of evidence would be good for your side... and good luck with that!
Several cultures have flood legends. One scientific theory is that the Black Sea was an isolated body of water like the Caspian Sea is now. Its level was below sea level, and people settled along its shores. At some point in prehistory, sea levels rose and the Mediterranean Sea overflowed what are now Bosporus/Dardanelles Straits and the Black Sea rose up to sea level, flooding those along its shores, and the Black Sea is no longer isolated from the world's oceans. The version now in the Bible morphed into a worldwide flood as a punishment from God.
Sounds like a logical scenario. Having the entire world flood to the extent that *all* animals were destroyed except for those on the ark is pretty hard to swallow... or to defend. I suppose Noah had 2 sharks and 2 whales on his boat? Shrimp?
You only list beasts that do not breath air. Everything you list, Muttons, breaths water (and the oxygen contained therein). So they didn't qualify for God's kill list.
On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 12:22:58 PM UTC-7, patdolan wrote:Gen 9:3
Recall that animals didn't even eat each other until Cain killed Abel.Evidence for this off-the-wall claim?
On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 5:57:29 PM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote:
On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 12:22:58 PM UTC-7, patdolan wrote:
Recall that animals didn't even eat each other until Cain killed Abel.
Evidence for this off-the-wall claim?
Gen 9:3
On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 11:13:38 AM UTC-7, Volney wrote:world event.
On 9/22/2023 1:17 PM, patdolan wrote:
On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 9:48:10 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
On 9/22/2023 12:03 AM, Paul Alsing wrote:
I look forward to your epistle regarding the Great Flood... I love a good work of fiction.Several cultures have flood legends. One scientific theory is that the >>>> Black Sea was an isolated body of water like the Caspian Sea is now. Its >>>> level was below sea level, and people settled along its shores. At some >>>> point in prehistory, sea levels rose and the Mediterranean Sea
As always, any scrap of evidence would be good for your side... and good luck with that!
overflowed what are now Bosporus/Dardanelles Straits and the Black Sea >>>> rose up to sea level, flooding those along its shores, and the Black Sea >>>> is no longer isolated from the world's oceans. The version now in the
Bible morphed into a worldwide flood as a punishment from God.
EVERY culture has a world flood story.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_myths
That article never claims "EVERY" culture has a flood myth, just across
a "wide range" of cultures. It even starts off how Africa has relatively
few flood legends, and in Egypt the floods were good, not catastrophic.
So you just made up garbage and pretended it was true.
Conclusion there was no Flood. Competing conclusion: the sons and daughters-in-law of Grandpa and Grandma Noah passed on the Flood story with compelling authority.
False dichotomy. Another conclusion, there were many different floods in
All cultures have been used to spring flooding, flash floods, tsunamis from the sea, etc. Yet they never composed myths to those commonly occurring events. No Volney. All these ancient cultures composed their myths to a single, unique, gigantic
An event that rang down the corridors of history. A myth told them by their originals parents: Japeth to the white man; Ham to the black; and Shem to the yellow.
On 9/22/2023 3:16 PM, patdolan wrote:event.
On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 11:13:38 AM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
On 9/22/2023 1:17 PM, patdolan wrote:
On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 9:48:10 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote: >>>> On 9/22/2023 12:03 AM, Paul Alsing wrote:
I look forward to your epistle regarding the Great Flood... I love a good work of fiction.Several cultures have flood legends. One scientific theory is that the >>>> Black Sea was an isolated body of water like the Caspian Sea is now. Its
As always, any scrap of evidence would be good for your side... and good luck with that!
level was below sea level, and people settled along its shores. At some >>>> point in prehistory, sea levels rose and the Mediterranean Sea
overflowed what are now Bosporus/Dardanelles Straits and the Black Sea >>>> rose up to sea level, flooding those along its shores, and the Black Sea
is no longer isolated from the world's oceans. The version now in the >>>> Bible morphed into a worldwide flood as a punishment from God.
EVERY culture has a world flood story.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_myths
That article never claims "EVERY" culture has a flood myth, just across >> a "wide range" of cultures. It even starts off how Africa has relatively >> few flood legends, and in Egypt the floods were good, not catastrophic. >> So you just made up garbage and pretended it was true.
Conclusion there was no Flood. Competing conclusion: the sons and daughters-in-law of Grandpa and Grandma Noah passed on the Flood story with compelling authority.
False dichotomy. Another conclusion, there were many different floods in
All cultures have been used to spring flooding, flash floods, tsunamis from the sea, etc. Yet they never composed myths to those commonly occurring events. No Volney. All these ancient cultures composed their myths to a single, unique, gigantic world
Nope. Only some of them. You yourself pointed out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_myths which stated many but
not all cultures had a catastrophic flood myth (yet you lied that it
stated all cultures did. Why do you lie?)
Also the catastrophic flood myths are all different, no Noah in cultures away from the Middle East area. The only thing these catastrophic flood myths have are a catastrophic flood (and no reason to believe it's theIn what way?
same catastrophic flood)
An event that rang down the corridors of history. A myth told them by their originals parents: Japeth to the white man; Ham to the black; and Shem to the yellow.Racist.
You don't explain why an evil God would destroy innocent air-breathing animals as well as any innocent humans. Did a newborn baby born the day before the biblical flood deserve to drown?Did a newborn baby born the day before the flood deserve to be born?
On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 8:33:58 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote:world event.
On 9/22/2023 3:16 PM, patdolan wrote:
On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 11:13:38 AM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
On 9/22/2023 1:17 PM, patdolan wrote:
On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 9:48:10 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote: >>>> On 9/22/2023 12:03 AM, Paul Alsing wrote:
I look forward to your epistle regarding the Great Flood... I love a good work of fiction.Several cultures have flood legends. One scientific theory is that the
As always, any scrap of evidence would be good for your side... and good luck with that!
Black Sea was an isolated body of water like the Caspian Sea is now. Its
level was below sea level, and people settled along its shores. At some
point in prehistory, sea levels rose and the Mediterranean Sea
overflowed what are now Bosporus/Dardanelles Straits and the Black Sea
rose up to sea level, flooding those along its shores, and the Black Sea
is no longer isolated from the world's oceans. The version now in the >>>> Bible morphed into a worldwide flood as a punishment from God.
EVERY culture has a world flood story.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_myths
That article never claims "EVERY" culture has a flood myth, just across >> a "wide range" of cultures. It even starts off how Africa has relatively
few flood legends, and in Egypt the floods were good, not catastrophic. >> So you just made up garbage and pretended it was true.
Conclusion there was no Flood. Competing conclusion: the sons and daughters-in-law of Grandpa and Grandma Noah passed on the Flood story with compelling authority.
False dichotomy. Another conclusion, there were many different floods in
All cultures have been used to spring flooding, flash floods, tsunamis from the sea, etc. Yet they never composed myths to those commonly occurring events. No Volney. All these ancient cultures composed their myths to a single, unique, gigantic
Well MorVolney? Did an innocent newborn baby, born the day before Noah's Flood deserve, nay, have a RIGHT to be born in the first place?Nope. Only some of them. You yourself pointed out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_myths which stated many but not all cultures had a catastrophic flood myth (yet you lied that it stated all cultures did. Why do you lie?)I'm not sure why I lie, Volney. Do you have any ideas why I lie?
Also the catastrophic flood myths are all different, no Noah in cultures away from the Middle East area. The only thing these catastrophic flood myths have are a catastrophic flood (and no reason to believe it's the same catastrophic flood)In what way?
An event that rang down the corridors of history. A myth told them by their originals parents: Japeth to the white man; Ham to the black; and Shem to the yellow.Racist.
You don't explain why an evil God would destroy innocent air-breathing animals as well as any innocent humans. Did a newborn baby born the day before the biblical flood deserve to drown?Did a newborn baby born the day before the flood deserve to be born?
On Saturday, September 23, 2023 at 10:30:39 AM UTC-7, patdolan wrote:world event.
On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 8:33:58 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
On 9/22/2023 3:16 PM, patdolan wrote:
On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 11:13:38 AM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
On 9/22/2023 1:17 PM, patdolan wrote:
On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 9:48:10 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote: >>>>>>> On 9/22/2023 12:03 AM, Paul Alsing wrote:
I look forward to your epistle regarding the Great Flood... I love a good work of fiction.Several cultures have flood legends. One scientific theory is that the >>>>>>> Black Sea was an isolated body of water like the Caspian Sea is now. Its
As always, any scrap of evidence would be good for your side... and good luck with that!
level was below sea level, and people settled along its shores. At some >>>>>>> point in prehistory, sea levels rose and the Mediterranean Sea
overflowed what are now Bosporus/Dardanelles Straits and the Black Sea >>>>>>> rose up to sea level, flooding those along its shores, and the Black Sea
is no longer isolated from the world's oceans. The version now in the >>>>>>> Bible morphed into a worldwide flood as a punishment from God.
EVERY culture has a world flood story.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_myths
That article never claims "EVERY" culture has a flood myth, just across >>>>> a "wide range" of cultures. It even starts off how Africa has relatively >>>>> few flood legends, and in Egypt the floods were good, not catastrophic. >>>>> So you just made up garbage and pretended it was true.
Conclusion there was no Flood. Competing conclusion: the sons and daughters-in-law of Grandpa and Grandma Noah passed on the Flood story with compelling authority.
False dichotomy. Another conclusion, there were many different floods in >>>>All cultures have been used to spring flooding, flash floods, tsunamis from the sea, etc. Yet they never composed myths to those commonly occurring events. No Volney. All these ancient cultures composed their myths to a single, unique, gigantic
Nope. Only some of them. You yourself pointed outI'm not sure why I lie, Volney. Do you have any ideas why I lie?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_myths which stated many but
not all cultures had a catastrophic flood myth (yet you lied that it
stated all cultures did. Why do you lie?)
In what way?
Also the catastrophic flood myths are all different, no Noah in cultures >>> away from the Middle East area. The only thing these catastrophic flood
myths have are a catastrophic flood (and no reason to believe it's the
same catastrophic flood)
An event that rang down the corridors of history. A myth told them by their originals parents: Japeth to the white man; Ham to the black; and Shem to the yellow.Racist.
You don't explain why an evil God would destroy innocent air-breathing
animals as well as any innocent humans. Did a newborn baby born the day
before the biblical flood deserve to drown?
Did a newborn baby born the day before the flood deserve to be born?
Well MorVolney? Did an innocent newborn baby, born the day before Noah's Flood deserve, nay, have a RIGHT to be born in the first place?
On 9/24/2023 10:00 AM, patdolan wrote:world event.
On Saturday, September 23, 2023 at 10:30:39 AM UTC-7, patdolan wrote:
On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 8:33:58 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
On 9/22/2023 3:16 PM, patdolan wrote:
On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 11:13:38 AM UTC-7, Volney wrote: >>>>> On 9/22/2023 1:17 PM, patdolan wrote:
On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 9:48:10 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote: >>>>>>> On 9/22/2023 12:03 AM, Paul Alsing wrote:
I look forward to your epistle regarding the Great Flood... I love a good work of fiction.Several cultures have flood legends. One scientific theory is that the
As always, any scrap of evidence would be good for your side... and good luck with that!
Black Sea was an isolated body of water like the Caspian Sea is now. Its
level was below sea level, and people settled along its shores. At some
point in prehistory, sea levels rose and the Mediterranean Sea >>>>>>> overflowed what are now Bosporus/Dardanelles Straits and the Black Sea
rose up to sea level, flooding those along its shores, and the Black Sea
is no longer isolated from the world's oceans. The version now in the
Bible morphed into a worldwide flood as a punishment from God.
EVERY culture has a world flood story.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_myths
That article never claims "EVERY" culture has a flood myth, just across
a "wide range" of cultures. It even starts off how Africa has relatively
few flood legends, and in Egypt the floods were good, not catastrophic.
So you just made up garbage and pretended it was true.
Conclusion there was no Flood. Competing conclusion: the sons and daughters-in-law of Grandpa and Grandma Noah passed on the Flood story with compelling authority.
False dichotomy. Another conclusion, there were many different floods in
All cultures have been used to spring flooding, flash floods, tsunamis from the sea, etc. Yet they never composed myths to those commonly occurring events. No Volney. All these ancient cultures composed their myths to a single, unique, gigantic
So am I. So humor me by answering my question. It may be pertinent to the answer of yours.Nope. Only some of them. You yourself pointed outI'm not sure why I lie, Volney. Do you have any ideas why I lie?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_myths which stated many but >>> not all cultures had a catastrophic flood myth (yet you lied that it
stated all cultures did. Why do you lie?)
In what way?
Also the catastrophic flood myths are all different, no Noah in cultures >>> away from the Middle East area. The only thing these catastrophic flood >>> myths have are a catastrophic flood (and no reason to believe it's the >>> same catastrophic flood)
An event that rang down the corridors of history. A myth told them by their originals parents: Japeth to the white man; Ham to the black; and Shem to the yellow.Racist.
You don't explain why an evil God would destroy innocent air-breathing >>> animals as well as any innocent humans. Did a newborn baby born the day >>> before the biblical flood deserve to drown?
Did a newborn baby born the day before the flood deserve to be born?
Well MorVolney? Did an innocent newborn baby, born the day before Noah's Flood deserve, nay, have a RIGHT to be born in the first place?What the hell kind of STUPID question is that? (And you even repeated
that stupidity!) Did you have the right to be born? Did I? Did anyone? You're just trying to divert the discussion.
I'm talking about the most INNOCENT possible person!
of every possible sin except for pooping its diapers!
drowned that innocent baby along with nearly everyone else, rather than
just "smiting" the evildoers. And drowning is a rather awful way to go.
(And, should I point out, your evil god did it again! Rather than
preventing the slaughter of innocent boys by Herod, he just told
Mary&Joseph to get out of Dodge, don't forget to bring the baby)
On 9/24/2023 10:00 AM, patdolan wrote:world event.
On Saturday, September 23, 2023 at 10:30:39 AM UTC-7, patdolan wrote:
On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 8:33:58 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
On 9/22/2023 3:16 PM, patdolan wrote:
On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 11:13:38 AM UTC-7, Volney wrote: >>>>> On 9/22/2023 1:17 PM, patdolan wrote:
On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 9:48:10 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote: >>>>>>> On 9/22/2023 12:03 AM, Paul Alsing wrote:
I look forward to your epistle regarding the Great Flood... I love a good work of fiction.Several cultures have flood legends. One scientific theory is that the
As always, any scrap of evidence would be good for your side... and good luck with that!
Black Sea was an isolated body of water like the Caspian Sea is now. Its
level was below sea level, and people settled along its shores. At some
point in prehistory, sea levels rose and the Mediterranean Sea >>>>>>> overflowed what are now Bosporus/Dardanelles Straits and the Black Sea
rose up to sea level, flooding those along its shores, and the Black Sea
is no longer isolated from the world's oceans. The version now in the
Bible morphed into a worldwide flood as a punishment from God.
EVERY culture has a world flood story.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_myths
That article never claims "EVERY" culture has a flood myth, just across
a "wide range" of cultures. It even starts off how Africa has relatively
few flood legends, and in Egypt the floods were good, not catastrophic.
So you just made up garbage and pretended it was true.
Conclusion there was no Flood. Competing conclusion: the sons and daughters-in-law of Grandpa and Grandma Noah passed on the Flood story with compelling authority.
False dichotomy. Another conclusion, there were many different floods in
All cultures have been used to spring flooding, flash floods, tsunamis from the sea, etc. Yet they never composed myths to those commonly occurring events. No Volney. All these ancient cultures composed their myths to a single, unique, gigantic
Nope. Only some of them. You yourself pointed outI'm not sure why I lie, Volney. Do you have any ideas why I lie?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_myths which stated many but >>> not all cultures had a catastrophic flood myth (yet you lied that it
stated all cultures did. Why do you lie?)
In what way?
Also the catastrophic flood myths are all different, no Noah in cultures >>> away from the Middle East area. The only thing these catastrophic flood >>> myths have are a catastrophic flood (and no reason to believe it's the >>> same catastrophic flood)
An event that rang down the corridors of history. A myth told them by their originals parents: Japeth to the white man; Ham to the black; and Shem to the yellow.Racist.
You don't explain why an evil God would destroy innocent air-breathing >>> animals as well as any innocent humans. Did a newborn baby born the day >>> before the biblical flood deserve to drown?
Did a newborn baby born the day before the flood deserve to be born?
Well MorVolney? Did an innocent newborn baby, born the day before Noah's Flood deserve, nay, have a RIGHT to be born in the first place?What the hell kind of STUPID question is that? (And you even repeated
that stupidity!) Did you have the right to be born? Did I? Did anyone? You're just trying to divert the discussion.
I'm talking about the most INNOCENT possible person! A Newborn! Innocent
of every possible sin except for pooping its diapers! And your evil god drowned that innocent baby along with nearly everyone else, rather than
just "smiting" the evildoers. And drowning is a rather awful way to go.
(And, should I point out, your evil god did it again! Rather than
preventing the slaughter of innocent boys by Herod, he just told
Mary&Joseph to get out of Dodge, don't forget to bring the baby)
On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 8:11:41 AM UTC-7, Volney wrote:world event.
On 9/24/2023 10:00 AM, patdolan wrote:
On Saturday, September 23, 2023 at 10:30:39 AM UTC-7, patdolan wrote:
On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 8:33:58 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
On 9/22/2023 3:16 PM, patdolan wrote:
On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 11:13:38 AM UTC-7, Volney wrote: >>>>> On 9/22/2023 1:17 PM, patdolan wrote:
On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 9:48:10 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
On 9/22/2023 12:03 AM, Paul Alsing wrote:EVERY culture has a world flood story.
I look forward to your epistle regarding the Great Flood... I love a good work of fiction.Several cultures have flood legends. One scientific theory is that the
As always, any scrap of evidence would be good for your side... and good luck with that!
Black Sea was an isolated body of water like the Caspian Sea is now. Its
level was below sea level, and people settled along its shores. At some
point in prehistory, sea levels rose and the Mediterranean Sea >>>>>>> overflowed what are now Bosporus/Dardanelles Straits and the Black Sea
rose up to sea level, flooding those along its shores, and the Black Sea
is no longer isolated from the world's oceans. The version now in the
Bible morphed into a worldwide flood as a punishment from God. >>>>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_myths
That article never claims "EVERY" culture has a flood myth, just across
a "wide range" of cultures. It even starts off how Africa has relatively
few flood legends, and in Egypt the floods were good, not catastrophic.
So you just made up garbage and pretended it was true.
Conclusion there was no Flood. Competing conclusion: the sons and daughters-in-law of Grandpa and Grandma Noah passed on the Flood story with compelling authority.
False dichotomy. Another conclusion, there were many different floods in
All cultures have been used to spring flooding, flash floods, tsunamis from the sea, etc. Yet they never composed myths to those commonly occurring events. No Volney. All these ancient cultures composed their myths to a single, unique, gigantic
Why do you tarry with your answer, Volroney? You won't even answer as to why you won't answer? Please appreciate that I have just acquainted you with something that you and the God you distain have in common: killing innocent babies.Nope. Only some of them. You yourself pointed outI'm not sure why I lie, Volney. Do you have any ideas why I lie?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_myths which stated many but
not all cultures had a catastrophic flood myth (yet you lied that it >>> stated all cultures did. Why do you lie?)
In what way?
Also the catastrophic flood myths are all different, no Noah in cultures
away from the Middle East area. The only thing these catastrophic flood
myths have are a catastrophic flood (and no reason to believe it's the >>> same catastrophic flood)
An event that rang down the corridors of history. A myth told them by their originals parents: Japeth to the white man; Ham to the black; and Shem to the yellow.Racist.
You don't explain why an evil God would destroy innocent air-breathing >>> animals as well as any innocent humans. Did a newborn baby born the day
before the biblical flood deserve to drown?
Did a newborn baby born the day before the flood deserve to be born?
Well MorVolney? Did an innocent newborn baby, born the day before Noah's Flood deserve, nay, have a RIGHT to be born in the first place?What the hell kind of STUPID question is that? (And you even repeated
that stupidity!) Did you have the right to be born? Did I? Did anyone? You're just trying to divert the discussion.
I'm talking about the most INNOCENT possible person!So am I. So humor me by answering my question. It may be pertinent to the answer of yours.
A Newborn! Innocent
of every possible sin except for pooping its diapers!
And your evil god
drowned that innocent baby along with nearly everyone else, rather than just "smiting" the evildoers. And drowning is a rather awful way to go.
(And, should I point out, your evil god did it again! Rather than preventing the slaughter of innocent boys by Herod, he just told Mary&Joseph to get out of Dodge, don't forget to bring the baby)
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