• Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

    From Laurence Clark Crossen@21:1/5 to All on Sat Aug 26 21:25:01 2023
    Examples of extraordinary claims remaining completely unproven:

    1. Time dilation.
    2. Length contraction.
    3. Equivalence "principle"
    4. Curved spacetime.
    5.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul Alsing@21:1/5 to Laurence Clark Crossen on Sat Aug 26 22:26:19 2023
    On Saturday, August 26, 2023 at 9:25:04 PM UTC-7, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
    Examples of extraordinary claims remaining completely unproven:

    1. Time dilation.
    2. Length contraction.
    3. Equivalence "principle"
    4. Curved spacetime.
    5.

    You remain curiously ignorantly of the fact that no theorem in physics can ever be "proven" to be true... only proven to be false... and so far, no one has ever been able to prove any of your bullet points to be false...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to Paul Alsing on Sat Aug 26 23:10:30 2023
    On Sunday, 27 August 2023 at 07:26:21 UTC+2, Paul Alsing wrote:
    On Saturday, August 26, 2023 at 9:25:04 PM UTC-7, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
    Examples of extraordinary claims remaining completely unproven:

    1. Time dilation.
    2. Length contraction.
    3. Equivalence "principle"
    4. Curved spacetime.
    5.
    You remain curiously ignorantly

    Stop making wise faces, por halfbrain, the
    mumble you're worshipping was not even
    consistent.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From JanPB@21:1/5 to Laurence Clark Crossen on Sun Aug 27 00:31:57 2023
    On Saturday, August 26, 2023 at 9:25:04 PM UTC-7, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
    Examples of extraordinary claims remaining completely unproven:

    1. Time dilation.
    2. Length contraction.
    3. Equivalence "principle"
    4. Curved spacetime.

    This is not how science works.
    You are fighting ghosts of your own imagination.

    --
    Jan

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mikko@21:1/5 to Laurence Clark Crossen on Sun Aug 27 11:18:14 2023
    On 2023-08-27 04:25:01 +0000, Laurence Clark Crossen said:

    Examples of extraordinary claims remaining completely unproven:

    1. Time dilation.

    Observed.

    2. Length contraction.

    Indirectly observed. No exception observed.

    3. Equivalence "principle"

    Confirmed. No exception observed.

    4. Curved spacetime.

    Observed.

    Note that "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" is not
    universally true. Some people, e.g., Laurence Clark Crossen, do
    accept and present extraordinary claims without extraordinary proof
    or evidence. But in general, reasonable people do want proof (if the
    claim is about mathematics) or evidence (if the claim is about the
    real worldI, at least if the claim has some practical significance.

    Mikko

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to Mikko on Sun Aug 27 02:35:30 2023
    On Sunday, 27 August 2023 at 10:18:18 UTC+2, Mikko wrote:
    On 2023-08-27 04:25:01 +0000, Laurence Clark Crossen said:

    Examples of extraordinary claims remaining completely unproven:

    1. Time dilation.
    Observed.

    A lie, of course, as expected from relativistic
    trash.

    2. Length contraction.

    Indirectly observed. No exception observed.

    3. Equivalence "principle"

    Confirmed. No exception observed.

    But in the meantime in the real world, forbidden by
    your bunch of idiots improper clocks keep measuring
    improper t'=t in improper seconds.


    4. Curved spacetime.

    Observed.

    Buhahahahahahahaha. That's a good one.


    Note that "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" is not universally true.

    Oh, sure, it's only true when not a claim of yours.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Laurence Clark Crossen@21:1/5 to Paul Alsing on Sun Aug 27 20:14:33 2023
    On Saturday, August 26, 2023 at 10:26:21 PM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote:
    On Saturday, August 26, 2023 at 9:25:04 PM UTC-7, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
    Examples of extraordinary claims remaining completely unproven:

    1. Time dilation.
    2. Length contraction.
    3. Equivalence "principle"
    4. Curved spacetime.
    5.
    You remain curiously ignorantly of the fact that no theorem in physics can ever be "proven" to be true... only proven to be false... and so far, no one has ever been able to prove any of your bullet points to be false...
    Then they are only claimed to be true, and extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs, according to Carl Sagan.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Laurence Clark Crossen@21:1/5 to Mikko on Sun Aug 27 20:28:08 2023
    On Sunday, August 27, 2023 at 1:18:18 AM UTC-7, Mikko wrote:
    On 2023-08-27 04:25:01 +0000, Laurence Clark Crossen said:

    Examples of extraordinary claims remaining completely unproven:

    1. Time dilation.
    Observed.

    2. Length contraction.

    Indirectly observed. No exception observed.

    3. Equivalence "principle"

    Confirmed. No exception observed.

    4. Curved spacetime.

    Observed.

    Note that "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" is not universally true. Some people, e.g., Laurence Clark Crossen, do
    accept and present extraordinary claims without extraordinary proof
    or evidence. But in general, reasonable people do want proof (if the
    claim is about mathematics) or evidence (if the claim is about the
    real worldI, at least if the claim has some practical significance.

    Mikko
    1. Only electromagnetic dilation has been observed, and no chemical, biological, or gravitational dilation, so it is not TIME dilation, as that would require it to be common to all processes. Pendulums demonstrate that time works for gravity, the
    opposite of both SR and GR. In a rocket traveling 10g the pendulum moves faster and not slower.
    2. Length contraction is the same as for time dilation. It is only shown in electromagnetic processes.
    3. The equivalence principle is disproven by several facts, including that gravity diminishes by the inverse square law. A rocket moving at 1g has the same gravity on every deck even if it is as tall as the Earth is wide.
    4. Curved spacetime is disproved by logic as it involves reification fallacy as any child could tell you.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Laurence Clark Crossen@21:1/5 to JanPB on Sun Aug 27 20:15:32 2023
    On Sunday, August 27, 2023 at 12:32:00 AM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
    On Saturday, August 26, 2023 at 9:25:04 PM UTC-7, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
    Examples of extraordinary claims remaining completely unproven:

    1. Time dilation.
    2. Length contraction.
    3. Equivalence "principle"
    4. Curved spacetime.
    This is not how science works.
    You are fighting ghosts of your own imagination.

    --
    Jan
    Relativity is not science and it does not work.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Volney@21:1/5 to Laurence Clark Crossen on Mon Aug 28 02:48:34 2023
    On 8/27/2023 11:28 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
    On Sunday, August 27, 2023 at 1:18:18 AM UTC-7, Mikko wrote:
    On 2023-08-27 04:25:01 +0000, Laurence Clark Crossen said:

    Examples of extraordinary claims remaining completely unproven:

    1. Time dilation.
    Observed.

    2. Length contraction.

    Indirectly observed. No exception observed.

    3. Equivalence "principle"

    Confirmed. No exception observed.

    4. Curved spacetime.

    Observed.

    Note that "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" is not
    universally true. Some people, e.g., Laurence Clark Crossen, do
    accept and present extraordinary claims without extraordinary proof
    or evidence. But in general, reasonable people do want proof (if the
    claim is about mathematics) or evidence (if the claim is about the
    real worldI, at least if the claim has some practical significance.

    Mikko
    1. Only electromagnetic dilation has been observed, and no chemical, biological, or gravitational dilation, so it is not TIME dilation, as that would require it to be common to all processes.

    That is not true. Physical time dilation is routinely measured. In fact,
    part of Einstein's motivation was why did Maxwell's Equations follow
    Lorentzian rules but physical mechanics followed Galilean rules? (The
    answer, of course, was that physical actually didn't follow Galilean
    rules after all)

    Pendulums demonstrate that time works for gravity, the opposite of both SR and GR. In a rocket traveling 10g the pendulum moves faster and not slower.

    This has been shot down in flames repeatedly. Pendulum clocks have the gravitating object such as Earth as part of the clock. Move a pendulum
    clock to the moon and you actually replaced part of the clock, just as
    if you replaced the quartz crystal in a quartz clock. A pendulum clock
    won't work at all in deep space with no gravity since part of the clock
    is missing! Also GR effects depend on the gravitational potential while
    a pendulum clock depends on the gravitational strength at the pendulum.
    (You know the difference, correct? I didn't think so.)

    Also, as you happen to mention by using the 10g rocket analogy, pendulum
    clocks can use other sources of force, such as acceleration, charges on
    the pendulum and something nearby, or even a spring.

    2. Length contraction is the same as for time dilation. It is only shown in electromagnetic processes.

    Again, wrong. It is shown in mechanics.

    3. The equivalence principle is disproven by several facts, including that gravity diminishes by the inverse square law.

    Irrelevant. It is all valid LOCALLY. Also in theory a gravitating plane
    would work perfectly for the equivalence principle. (the earth's surface
    is a very good approximation to a gravitating plane, producing "little g").

    4. Curved spacetime is disproved by logic as it involves reification fallacy as any child could tell you.

    "Disproof by logic" (whose? Your illogical 'logic'?) isn't valid. You
    need an actual experiment which disproves any theory of physics. Just
    one is needed. But in 100+ years, no such experiment has happened.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to Volney on Sun Aug 27 23:55:38 2023
    On Monday, 28 August 2023 at 08:48:39 UTC+2, Volney wrote:
    On 8/27/2023 11:28 PM, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
    On Sunday, August 27, 2023 at 1:18:18 AM UTC-7, Mikko wrote:
    On 2023-08-27 04:25:01 +0000, Laurence Clark Crossen said:

    Examples of extraordinary claims remaining completely unproven:

    1. Time dilation.
    Observed.

    2. Length contraction.

    Indirectly observed. No exception observed.

    3. Equivalence "principle"

    Confirmed. No exception observed.

    4. Curved spacetime.

    Observed.

    Note that "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" is not
    universally true. Some people, e.g., Laurence Clark Crossen, do
    accept and present extraordinary claims without extraordinary proof
    or evidence. But in general, reasonable people do want proof (if the
    claim is about mathematics) or evidence (if the claim is about the
    real worldI, at least if the claim has some practical significance.

    Mikko
    1. Only electromagnetic dilation has been observed, and no chemical, biological, or gravitational dilation, so it is not TIME dilation, as that would require it to be common to all processes.
    That is not true. Physical time dilation is routinely measured. In fact,

    A lie, of course, as expected from stupid Mike.
    In fact, the clocks of all the real timekeeping systems (UTC,
    TAI, GPS, zone times) keep measuring t'=t, just like they
    always did.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mitchrae3323@gmail.com@21:1/5 to Paul Alsing on Mon Aug 28 11:46:19 2023
    On Saturday, August 26, 2023 at 10:26:21 PM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote:
    On Saturday, August 26, 2023 at 9:25:04 PM UTC-7, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
    Examples of extraordinary claims remaining completely unproven:

    1. Time dilation.
    2. Length contraction.
    3. Equivalence "principle"
    4. Curved spacetime.
    5.
    You remain curiously ignorantly of the fact that no theorem in physics can ever be "proven" to be true... only proven to be false... and so far, no one has ever been able to prove any of your bullet points to be false...

    Right paul. If science cannot prove anything what does it have..?
    Religion has always been better than science
    Math before man proves God.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to mitchr...@gmail.com on Mon Aug 28 11:56:08 2023
    On Monday, 28 August 2023 at 20:46:22 UTC+2, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Saturday, August 26, 2023 at 10:26:21 PM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote:
    On Saturday, August 26, 2023 at 9:25:04 PM UTC-7, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
    Examples of extraordinary claims remaining completely unproven:

    1. Time dilation.
    2. Length contraction.
    3. Equivalence "principle"
    4. Curved spacetime.
    5.
    You remain curiously ignorantly of the fact that no theorem in physics can ever be "proven" to be true... only proven to be false... and so far, no one has ever been able to prove any of your bullet points to be false...
    Right paul. If science cannot prove anything what does it have..?

    Faith. Faith works.

    Religion has always been better than science
    Math before man proves God.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Laurence Clark Crossen@21:1/5 to Laurence Clark Crossen on Mon Aug 28 13:28:57 2023
    On Saturday, August 26, 2023 at 9:25:04 PM UTC-7, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
    Examples of extraordinary claims remaining completely unproven:

    1. Time dilation.
    2. Length contraction.
    3. Equivalence "principle"
    4. Curved spacetime.
    5. That relativity explains Mercurys anomalous perihelion advance: "Mercury’s perihelion precession shows there may be sufficient and compelling reason to re-visit the currently accepted model of Mercury’s perihelion precession, and its use as an
    originating or defining “test” of general relativity" - "Diffusion Gravity (5): Perihelion Precessions as Indicators of Galactic Gravity" Dale Fulton
    AS PER HERTZ's PREVIOUS POST.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul Alsing@21:1/5 to Laurence Clark Crossen on Mon Aug 28 18:13:59 2023
    On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 1:28:59 PM UTC-7, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
    On Saturday, August 26, 2023 at 9:25:04 PM UTC-7, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
    Examples of extraordinary claims remaining completely unproven:

    1. Time dilation.
    2. Length contraction.
    3. Equivalence "principle"
    4. Curved spacetime.
    5. That relativity explains Mercurys anomalous perihelion advance: "Mercury’s perihelion precession shows there may be sufficient and compelling reason to re-visit the currently accepted model of Mercury’s perihelion precession, and its use as an
    originating or defining “test” of general relativity" - "Diffusion Gravity (5): Perihelion Precessions as Indicators of Galactic Gravity" Dale Fulton

    AS PER HERTZ's PREVIOUS POST.

    Hertz is an idiot and knows no physics... just like you!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mitchrae3323@gmail.com@21:1/5 to Maciej Wozniak on Mon Aug 28 18:18:01 2023
    On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 11:56:11 AM UTC-7, Maciej Wozniak wrote:
    On Monday, 28 August 2023 at 20:46:22 UTC+2, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Saturday, August 26, 2023 at 10:26:21 PM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote:
    On Saturday, August 26, 2023 at 9:25:04 PM UTC-7, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
    Examples of extraordinary claims remaining completely unproven:

    1. Time dilation.
    2. Length contraction.
    3. Equivalence "principle"
    4. Curved spacetime.
    5.
    You remain curiously ignorantly of the fact that no theorem in physics can ever be "proven" to be true... only proven to be false... and so far, no one has ever been able to prove any of your bullet points to be false...
    Right paul. If science cannot prove anything what does it have..?
    Faith. Faith works.

    since where does science advocate that reality?
    Science is wrong.

    Religion has always been better than science
    Math before man proves God.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul Alsing@21:1/5 to Maciej Wozniak on Mon Aug 28 20:10:11 2023
    On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 11:56:11 AM UTC-7, Maciej Wozniak wrote:
    On Monday, 28 August 2023 at 20:46:22 UTC+2, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Saturday, August 26, 2023 at 10:26:21 PM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote:
    On Saturday, August 26, 2023 at 9:25:04 PM UTC-7, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
    Examples of extraordinary claims remaining completely unproven:

    1. Time dilation.
    2. Length contraction.
    3. Equivalence "principle"
    4. Curved spacetime.
    5.
    You remain curiously ignorantly of the fact that no theorem in physics can ever be "proven" to be true... only proven to be false... and so far, no one has ever been able to prove any of your bullet points to be false...
    Right paul. If science cannot prove anything what does it have..?

    Faith. Faith works.

    Faith only work for religion because religion does not demand any evidence whatsoever, whereas physics *always" demands evidence.

    Evidence rules... got any?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Laurence Clark Crossen@21:1/5 to mitchr...@gmail.com on Mon Aug 28 20:18:08 2023
    On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 6:18:03 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 11:56:11 AM UTC-7, Maciej Wozniak wrote:
    On Monday, 28 August 2023 at 20:46:22 UTC+2, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Saturday, August 26, 2023 at 10:26:21 PM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote:
    On Saturday, August 26, 2023 at 9:25:04 PM UTC-7, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
    Examples of extraordinary claims remaining completely unproven:

    1. Time dilation.
    2. Length contraction.
    3. Equivalence "principle"
    4. Curved spacetime.
    5.
    You remain curiously ignorantly of the fact that no theorem in physics can ever be "proven" to be true... only proven to be false... and so far, no one has ever been able to prove any of your bullet points to be false...
    Right paul. If science cannot prove anything what does it have..?
    Faith. Faith works.
    since where does science advocate that reality?
    Science is wrong.
    Religion has always been better than science
    Math before man proves God.
    Obviously, we have probabilities such as Newtonian reality and improbabilities such as relativistic fairy tales.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul Alsing@21:1/5 to Laurence Clark Crossen on Mon Aug 28 21:41:07 2023
    On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 8:18:10 PM UTC-7, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
    On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 6:18:03 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 11:56:11 AM UTC-7, Maciej Wozniak wrote:
    On Monday, 28 August 2023 at 20:46:22 UTC+2, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Saturday, August 26, 2023 at 10:26:21 PM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote:
    On Saturday, August 26, 2023 at 9:25:04 PM UTC-7, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
    Examples of extraordinary claims remaining completely unproven:

    1. Time dilation.
    2. Length contraction.
    3. Equivalence "principle"
    4. Curved spacetime.
    5.
    You remain curiously ignorantly of the fact that no theorem in physics can ever be "proven" to be true... only proven to be false... and so far, no one has ever been able to prove any of your bullet points to be false...
    Right paul. If science cannot prove anything what does it have..?
    Faith. Faith works.
    since where does science advocate that reality?
    Science is wrong.
    Religion has always been better than science
    Math before man proves God.

    Obviously, we have probabilities such as Newtonian reality and improbabilities such as relativistic fairy tales.

    You continue to fail to provide any evidence to support your claim that relativity is false. ZERO. EVIDENCE.

    Sucks to be you!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to Paul Alsing on Mon Aug 28 23:09:36 2023
    On Tuesday, 29 August 2023 at 06:41:09 UTC+2, Paul Alsing wrote:
    On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 8:18:10 PM UTC-7, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
    On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 6:18:03 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 11:56:11 AM UTC-7, Maciej Wozniak wrote:
    On Monday, 28 August 2023 at 20:46:22 UTC+2, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Saturday, August 26, 2023 at 10:26:21 PM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote:
    On Saturday, August 26, 2023 at 9:25:04 PM UTC-7, Laurence Clark Crossen wrote:
    Examples of extraordinary claims remaining completely unproven:

    1. Time dilation.
    2. Length contraction.
    3. Equivalence "principle"
    4. Curved spacetime.
    5.
    You remain curiously ignorantly of the fact that no theorem in physics can ever be "proven" to be true... only proven to be false... and so far, no one has ever been able to prove any of your bullet points to be false...
    Right paul. If science cannot prove anything what does it have..?
    Faith. Faith works.
    since where does science advocate that reality?
    Science is wrong.
    Religion has always been better than science
    Math before man proves God.

    Obviously, we have probabilities such as Newtonian reality and improbabilities such as relativistic fairy tales.
    You continue to fail to provide any evidence to support your claim that relativity is false. ZERO. EVIDENCE.

    I've proven your Shit was not even consistent. And
    what? It has only made you spitting more fiercely
    than usually. Not that anything else can be expected
    from a fanatic idiot, of course.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)