PROBLEM OF PHYSICS FOUND WHICH HAS TO BE SOLVED PROPERLY:
Coordinate Time Axis Points to Past Direction in Interior of
Schwarzschild Black Hole (0 < r < 2*MG/c^2).
Proper Time Axis Points to Future Direction in Interior of
Schwarzschild Black Hole (0 < r < 2*MG/c^2).
For any object, anywhere and anywhen, its proper time axis is always
future pointing. That's part of what "proper time" means.
On 5/3/23 5:58 AM, Hannu Poropudas wrote:
PROBLEM OF PHYSICS FOUND WHICH HAS TO BE SOLVED PROPERLY:The solution is trivial.
Coordinate Time Axis Points to Past Direction in Interior ofOnly when you choose such coordinates. Instead, choose coordinates in
Schwarzschild Black Hole (0 < r < 2*MG/c^2).
which the time axis is future pointing. Your imaginary "problem" is
solved. Of course in this region the singularity is in the future of
every point. Note also that your coordinate "r" is TIMELIKE, and a
suitable future-pointing time axis is -d/dr (d = partial derivative). Of course many other coordinate systems are possible, and some don't even
have a time axis (e.g. Kruskal coordinates).
Proper Time Axis Points to Future Direction in Interior ofFor any object, anywhere and anywhen, its proper time axis is always
Schwarzschild Black Hole (0 < r < 2*MG/c^2).
future pointing. That's part of what "proper time" means.
Tom Roberts
On 5/3/2023 11:53 AM, Tom Roberts wrote:
For any object, anywhere and anywhen, its proper time axis is always future pointing. That's part of what "proper time" means.
I once heard an interesting description long ago that at the event
horizon, the time axis and the r axis switch behaviors. That is, outside time is always into the future and never the past, nor can it be stopped
but you have freedom in 3 space dimensions. Inside the horizon, the "r"
axis is always heading to the singularity and never away from it, nor
can motion along the r axis be stopped. So "r" behaves more like time
than distance. I think the poster claimed that there was freedom of
movement in time. The alternative is that time is time but there are two timelike dimensions.
Bogus?
On Wednesday, May 3, 2023 at 3:21:45 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote:
On 5/3/2023 11:53 AM, Tom Roberts wrote:
For any object, anywhere and anywhen, its proper time axis is always future pointing. That's part of what "proper time" means.
I once heard an interesting description long ago that at the event horizon, the time axis and the r axis switch behaviors. That is, outside time is always into the future and never the past, nor can it be stopped but you have freedom in 3 space dimensions. Inside the horizon, the "r" axis is always heading to the singularity and never away from it, nor
can motion along the r axis be stopped. So "r" behaves more like time
than distance. I think the poster claimed that there was freedom of movement in time. The alternative is that time is time but there are two timelike dimensions.
Bogus?This is only a coordinate property of the standard Schwarzschild coordinates,
keskiviikko 3. toukokuuta 2023 klo 18.56.17 UTC+3 Tom Roberts
kirjoitti:
On 5/3/23 5:58 AM, Hannu Poropudas wrote:
PROBLEM OF PHYSICS FOUND WHICH HAS TO BE SOLVED PROPERLY:The solution is trivial.
NO
Coordinate Time Axis Points to Past Direction in Interior ofOnly when you choose such coordinates. Instead, choose coordinates
Schwarzschild Black Hole (0 < r < 2*MG/c^2).
in which the time axis is future pointing. Your imaginary "problem"
is solved. Of course in this region the singularity is in the
future of every point. Note also that your coordinate "r" is
TIMELIKE, and a suitable future-pointing time axis is -d/dr (d =
partial derivative). Of course many other coordinate systems are
possible, and some don't even have a time axis (e.g. Kruskal
coordinates).
NO, I think that this your mentioned mathematics (=only trick of mathematics?) is of NO USE in this case of REAL General Relativity
problem of Schwarzschild metrics.
My speculation: [... complete nonsense displaying a serious lack of understanding of basic GR]
On 5/4/23 12:31 AM, Hannu Poropudas wrote:
keskiviikko 3. toukokuuta 2023 klo 18.56.17 UTC+3 Tom Roberts
kirjoitti:
On 5/3/23 5:58 AM, Hannu Poropudas wrote:
PROBLEM OF PHYSICS FOUND WHICH HAS TO BE SOLVED PROPERLY:The solution is trivial.
NOYes. You simply do not understand this.
Coordinate Time Axis Points to Past Direction in Interior ofOnly when you choose such coordinates. Instead, choose coordinates
Schwarzschild Black Hole (0 < r < 2*MG/c^2).
in which the time axis is future pointing. Your imaginary "problem"
is solved. Of course in this region the singularity is in the
future of every point. Note also that your coordinate "r" is
TIMELIKE, and a suitable future-pointing time axis is -d/dr (d =
partial derivative). Of course many other coordinate systems are
possible, and some don't even have a time axis (e.g. Kruskal
coordinates).
NO, I think that this your mentioned mathematics (=only trick of mathematics?) is of NO USE in this case of REAL General RelativityTHINK about what you just said. The metric is a TENSOR, and is thus completely independent of any coordinates.
problem of Schwarzschild metrics.
On 5/4/23 12:31 AM, Hannu Poropudas wrote:
keskiviikko 3. toukokuuta 2023 klo 18.56.17 UTC+3 Tom Roberts
kirjoitti:
On 5/3/23 5:58 AM, Hannu Poropudas wrote:
PROBLEM OF PHYSICS FOUND WHICH HAS TO BE SOLVED PROPERLY:The solution is trivial.
NOYes. You simply do not understand this.
Coordinate Time Axis Points to Past Direction in Interior ofOnly when you choose such coordinates. Instead, choose coordinates
Schwarzschild Black Hole (0 < r < 2*MG/c^2).
in which the time axis is future pointing. Your imaginary "problem"
is solved. Of course in this region the singularity is in the
future of every point. Note also that your coordinate "r" is
TIMELIKE, and a suitable future-pointing time axis is -d/dr (d =
partial derivative). Of course many other coordinate systems are
possible, and some don't even have a time axis (e.g. Kruskal
coordinates).
NO, I think that this your mentioned mathematics (=only trick of mathematics?) is of NO USE in this case of REAL General RelativityTHINK about what you just said. The metric is a TENSOR, and is thus completely independent of any coordinates. Moreover, one is free to
problem of Schwarzschild metrics.
select any coordinate system one likes. This is not "only a trick of mathematics", this is an essential aspect of GR, which is inherently
based on the differential geometry of semi-Riemannian manifolds.
The usual Schwarzschild coordinates on Schwarzschild spacetime apply in
two DISJOINT regions, with a singular region in which they don't apply
at all (here G=c=1):
2M<r: the region outside the horizon; r is spacelike, t is
timelike, and d/dt is future pointing
0<r<2M: the region inside the horizon; t is spacelike, r is
timelike, and -d/dr is future pointing
r=2M: these coordinates are singular, and therefore useless
These are facts about THIS COORDINATE SYSTEM, and are not properties of
the manifold itself.
It took physicists many decades to learn to distinguish
coordinate-specific properties from properties of the manifold itself.
You seem to never have learned that essential lesson about differential geometry and GR.
My speculation: [... complete nonsense displaying a serious lack of understanding of basic GR]
Tom Roberts
torstai 4. toukokuuta 2023 klo 22.26.52 UTC+3 Tom Roberts kirjoitti:
You simply do not understand this.
NO, real space-time is not full 4-dimensional due time dimension is
different kind that space dimensions.
Real space-time is not full 4-dimensional due time dimension is
different kind that space dimensions.
I think that new physics starts in many cases with somehow rough
speculations [...]
Yes. But it does NOT start from a position of ignorance. EVERY physicist
who has created a viable new theory has demonstrated a masterful understanding of the then-current physics, both theoretical and
experimental.
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