• the-absurdity-of-the-nobel-prizes-in-science

    From The Starmaker@21:1/5 to All on Sat Sep 30 17:22:59 2023
    XPost: sci.physics.relativity

    https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/10/the-absurdity-of-the-nobel-prizes-in-science/541863/



    --
    The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
    to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable,
    and challenge the unchallengeable.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Starmaker@21:1/5 to The Starmaker on Sat Sep 30 22:40:07 2023
    XPost: sci.physics.relativity

    The Starmaker wrote:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/10/the-absurdity-of-the-nobel-prizes-in-science/541863/


    they gave the Nobel Prize to.....Bob Dylan???? all he did was steal
    'other' peoples music! and he couldn't even sing!!



    --
    The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
    to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable,
    and challenge the unchallengeable.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Starmaker@21:1/5 to The Starmaker on Sat Sep 30 22:44:48 2023
    XPost: sci.physics.relativity

    The Starmaker wrote:

    The Starmaker wrote:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/10/the-absurdity-of-the-nobel-prizes-in-science/541863/


    they gave the Nobel Prize to.....Bob Dylan???? all he did was steal
    'other' peoples music! and he couldn't even sing!!


    Why Obama??? because he actually became President? dat crack smoking
    fag!

    I don't get it.


    About Women? don't dey giv those to women?


    Nobody in India?...or China?




    --
    The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
    to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable,
    and challenge the unchallengeable.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Thomas Heger@21:1/5 to All on Sun Oct 1 08:06:49 2023
    XPost: sci.physics.relativity

    Am 01.10.2023 um 02:22 schrieb The Starmaker:
    https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/10/the-absurdity-of-the-nobel-prizes-in-science/541863/



    I'm unable to reach this website. it always says: 'we're working on it'
    and show an excuse screen.

    TH

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Starmaker@21:1/5 to Thomas Heger on Sun Oct 1 11:16:53 2023
    XPost: sci.physics.relativity

    Thomas Heger wrote:

    Am 01.10.2023 um 02:22 schrieb The Starmaker:
    https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/10/the-absurdity-of-the-nobel-prizes-in-science/541863/



    I'm unable to reach this website. it always says: 'we're working on it'
    and show an excuse screen.

    TH


    https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=the+absurdity+of+nobel+prize+in+science



    there is also the current WSJ

    https://www.wsj.com/science/the-nobel-prizes-need-a-makeover-554bc2fa?mod=itp_wsj


    --
    The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
    to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable,
    and challenge the unchallengeable.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Physfitfreak@21:1/5 to The Starmaker on Sun Oct 1 21:28:02 2023
    XPost: sci.physics.relativity

    On 10/1/2023 12:40 AM, The Starmaker wrote:
    Bob Dylan???? all he did was steal
    'other' peoples music! and he couldn't even sing!!


    Hahhahah :-)) No he couldn't sing, but he was very clever in bringing
    together long forgotten melodies and make money with them using his
    poetry powers. He is a poet first.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Arindam Banerjee@21:1/5 to Physfitfreak on Sun Oct 1 23:21:51 2023
    On Monday, 2 October 2023 at 13:28:07 UTC+11, Physfitfreak wrote:
    On 10/1/2023 12:40 AM, The Starmaker wrote:
    Bob Dylan???? all he did was steal
    'other' peoples music! and he couldn't even sing!!
    Hahhahah :-)) No he couldn't sing, but he was very clever in bringing together long forgotten melodies and make money with them using his
    poetry powers. He is a poet first.
    Not many lousier.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Starmaker@21:1/5 to Physfitfreak on Sun Oct 1 23:50:31 2023
    XPost: sci.physics.relativity

    Physfitfreak wrote:

    On 10/1/2023 12:40 AM, The Starmaker wrote:
    Bob Dylan???? all he did was steal
    'other' peoples music! and he couldn't even sing!!

    Hahhahah :-)) No he couldn't sing, but he was very clever in bringing together long forgotten melodies and make money with them using his
    poetry powers. He is a poet first.

    You don't get it...he stoled the lyrics/words from other artists, and he
    stole words from books.


    He's a gonif. He got the Nobel Prize for Gonif.

    --
    The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
    to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable,
    and challenge the unchallengeable.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Physfitfreak@21:1/5 to The Starmaker on Mon Oct 2 20:54:35 2023
    XPost: sci.physics.relativity

    On 10/2/2023 1:50 AM, The Starmaker wrote:
    Physfitfreak wrote:

    On 10/1/2023 12:40 AM, The Starmaker wrote:
    Bob Dylan???? all he did was steal
    'other' peoples music! and he couldn't even sing!!

    Hahhahah :-)) No he couldn't sing, but he was very clever in bringing
    together long forgotten melodies and make money with them using his
    poetry powers. He is a poet first.

    You don't get it...he stoled the lyrics/words from other artists, and he stole words from books.


    He's a gonif. He got the Nobel Prize for Gonif.


    Are you saying his lyrics were plagiarized too ?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Starmaker@21:1/5 to Physfitfreak on Mon Oct 2 19:48:06 2023
    XPost: sci.physics.relativity

    Physfitfreak wrote:

    On 10/2/2023 1:50 AM, The Starmaker wrote:
    Physfitfreak wrote:

    On 10/1/2023 12:40 AM, The Starmaker wrote:
    Bob Dylan???? all he did was steal
    'other' peoples music! and he couldn't even sing!!

    Hahhahah :-)) No he couldn't sing, but he was very clever in bringing
    together long forgotten melodies and make money with them using his
    poetry powers. He is a poet first.

    You don't get it...he stoled the lyrics/words from other artists, and he stole words from books.


    He's a gonif. He got the Nobel Prize for Gonif.


    Are you saying his lyrics were plagiarized too ?

    Joni Mitchell once said: "Bob Dylan is not authentic at all. He's a
    plagiarist and his name and voice are fake. Everything about Bob is a deception...."


    --
    The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
    to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable,
    and challenge the unchallengeable.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Physfitfreak@21:1/5 to The Starmaker on Mon Oct 2 22:32:30 2023
    XPost: sci.physics.relativity

    On 10/2/2023 9:48 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
    Physfitfreak wrote:

    On 10/2/2023 1:50 AM, The Starmaker wrote:
    Physfitfreak wrote:

    On 10/1/2023 12:40 AM, The Starmaker wrote:
    Bob Dylan???? all he did was steal
    'other' peoples music! and he couldn't even sing!!

    Hahhahah :-)) No he couldn't sing, but he was very clever in bringing
    together long forgotten melodies and make money with them using his
    poetry powers. He is a poet first.

    You don't get it...he stoled the lyrics/words from other artists, and he >>> stole words from books.


    He's a gonif. He got the Nobel Prize for Gonif.


    Are you saying his lyrics were plagiarized too ?

    Joni Mitchell once said: "Bob Dylan is not authentic at all. He's a plagiarist and his name and voice are fake. Everything about Bob is a deception...."




    Then no wonder Lennon hated him, and vice versa.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Physfitfreak@21:1/5 to Physfitfreak on Tue Oct 3 00:01:43 2023
    XPost: sci.physics.relativity

    On 10/2/2023 10:32 PM, Physfitfreak wrote:
    On 10/2/2023 9:48 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
    Physfitfreak wrote:

    On 10/2/2023 1:50 AM, The Starmaker wrote:
    Physfitfreak wrote:

    On 10/1/2023 12:40 AM, The Starmaker wrote:
    Bob Dylan???? all he did was steal
    'other' peoples music! and he couldn't even sing!!

    Hahhahah :-)) No he couldn't sing, but he was very clever in bringing >>>>> together long forgotten melodies and make money with them using his
    poetry powers. He is a poet first.

    You don't get it...he stoled the lyrics/words from other artists,
    and he
    stole words from books.


    He's a gonif. He got the Nobel Prize for Gonif.


    Are you saying his lyrics were plagiarized too ?

    Joni Mitchell once said: "Bob Dylan is not authentic at all. He's a
    plagiarist and his name and voice are fake. Everything about Bob is a
    deception...."




    Then no wonder Lennon hated him, and vice versa.

    In one of his tours in Dallas early in 1980s a neighbor told me he was
    booed. I thought it was the Rednecks in the audience doing it. Now with
    what you're saying perhaps he was actually booed by everyone there.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Thomas Heger@21:1/5 to All on Tue Oct 3 08:25:12 2023
    XPost: sci.physics.relativity

    Am 03.10.2023 um 07:01 schrieb Physfitfreak:

    Joni Mitchell once said: "Bob Dylan is not authentic at all. He's a
    plagiarist and his name and voice are fake. Everything about Bob is a
    deception...."




    Then no wonder Lennon hated him, and vice versa.

    In one of his tours in Dallas early in 1980s a neighbor told me he was
    booed. I thought it was the Rednecks in the audience doing it. Now with
    what you're saying perhaps he was actually booed by everyone there.

    I can hear quite good and have also good visual memories.

    Therefore I have the ability to estimate (by long experience) the face
    of a person from the sound of the voice of that person.

    But in many (if not most) of the cases of very popular artists the voice
    of a singer does not fit to the face.


    TH

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Thomas Heger@21:1/5 to All on Tue Oct 3 08:19:58 2023
    XPost: sci.physics.relativity

    Am 01.10.2023 um 20:16 schrieb The Starmaker:
    Thomas Heger wrote:

    Am 01.10.2023 um 02:22 schrieb The Starmaker:
    https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/10/the-absurdity-of-the-nobel-prizes-in-science/541863/



    I'm unable to reach this website. it always says: 'we're working on it'
    and show an excuse screen.

    TH


    https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=the+absurdity+of+nobel+prize+in+science



    there is also the current WSJ

    https://www.wsj.com/science/the-nobel-prizes-need-a-makeover-554bc2fa?mod=itp_wsj


    Same behaviour...

    There is a very strange habit of this website:

    the content pops up for an instant and shortly after a 'work in progress
    page' is shown.


    This is as if that website would be blocked on the way towards Germany
    (for uncertain reasons).


    TH

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Starmaker@21:1/5 to Thomas Heger on Tue Oct 3 21:13:34 2023
    XPost: sci.physics.relativity

    Thomas Heger wrote:

    Am 01.10.2023 um 20:16 schrieb The Starmaker:
    Thomas Heger wrote:

    Am 01.10.2023 um 02:22 schrieb The Starmaker:
    https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/10/the-absurdity-of-the-nobel-prizes-in-science/541863/



    I'm unable to reach this website. it always says: 'we're working on it'
    and show an excuse screen.

    TH


    https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=the+absurdity+of+nobel+prize+in+science



    there is also the current WSJ

    https://www.wsj.com/science/the-nobel-prizes-need-a-makeover-554bc2fa?mod=itp_wsj

    Same behaviour...

    There is a very strange habit of this website:

    the content pops up for an instant and shortly after a 'work in progress page' is shown.

    This is as if that website would be blocked on the way towards Germany
    (for uncertain reasons).

    TH

    You are having old browers/oldWindows problems..


    If you can go to


    https://www.wsj.com

    then click the Science menu






    --
    The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
    to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable,
    and challenge the unchallengeable.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Starmaker@21:1/5 to The Starmaker on Wed Oct 4 14:10:44 2023
    XPost: sci.physics.relativity

    The Starmaker wrote:

    Thomas Heger wrote:

    Am 01.10.2023 um 20:16 schrieb The Starmaker:
    Thomas Heger wrote:

    Am 01.10.2023 um 02:22 schrieb The Starmaker:
    https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/10/the-absurdity-of-the-nobel-prizes-in-science/541863/



    I'm unable to reach this website. it always says: 'we're working on it' >> and show an excuse screen.

    TH


    https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=the+absurdity+of+nobel+prize+in+science



    there is also the current WSJ

    https://www.wsj.com/science/the-nobel-prizes-need-a-makeover-554bc2fa?mod=itp_wsj

    Same behaviour...

    There is a very strange habit of this website:

    the content pops up for an instant and shortly after a 'work in progress page' is shown.

    This is as if that website would be blocked on the way towards Germany
    (for uncertain reasons).

    TH

    You are having old browers/oldWindows problems..

    If you can go to

    https://www.wsj.com

    then click the Science menu

    also today...Lead Story:

    https://www.wsj.com/

    https://www.wsj.com/science?mod=nav_top_section



    After Shunning Scientist, University of Pennsylvania Celebrates Her Nobel Prize School that once demoted Katalin Karikó and cut her pay has made millions of dollars from patenting her work

    https://www.wsj.com/health/after-shunning-scientist-university-of-pennsylvania-celebrates-her-nobel-prize-96157321?mod=science_lead_story






    --
    The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
    to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable,
    and challenge the unchallengeable.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Starmaker@21:1/5 to The Starmaker on Wed Oct 4 16:20:27 2023
    XPost: sci.physics.relativity

    The Starmaker wrote:

    The Starmaker wrote:

    Thomas Heger wrote:

    Am 01.10.2023 um 20:16 schrieb The Starmaker:
    Thomas Heger wrote:

    Am 01.10.2023 um 02:22 schrieb The Starmaker:
    https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/10/the-absurdity-of-the-nobel-prizes-in-science/541863/



    I'm unable to reach this website. it always says: 'we're working on it'
    and show an excuse screen.

    TH


    https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=the+absurdity+of+nobel+prize+in+science



    there is also the current WSJ

    https://www.wsj.com/science/the-nobel-prizes-need-a-makeover-554bc2fa?mod=itp_wsj

    Same behaviour...

    There is a very strange habit of this website:

    the content pops up for an instant and shortly after a 'work in progress page' is shown.

    This is as if that website would be blocked on the way towards Germany (for uncertain reasons).

    TH

    You are having old browers/oldWindows problems..

    If you can go to

    https://www.wsj.com

    then click the Science menu

    also today...Lead Story:

    https://www.wsj.com/

    https://www.wsj.com/science?mod=nav_top_section

    After Shunning Scientist, University of Pennsylvania Celebrates Her Nobel Prize
    School that once demoted Katalin Karikó and cut her pay has made millions of dollars from patenting her work

    https://www.wsj.com/health/after-shunning-scientist-university-of-pennsylvania-celebrates-her-nobel-prize-96157321?mod=science_lead_story



    dis link contains the whole article:

    https://www.livemint.com/science/after-shunning-scientist-university-of-pennsylvania-celebrates-her-nobel-prize-11696444798369.html
    --
    The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
    to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable,
    and challenge the unchallengeable.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Physfitfreak@21:1/5 to The Starmaker on Wed Oct 4 20:35:46 2023
    XPost: sci.physics.relativity

    On 10/4/2023 4:10 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
    The Starmaker wrote:

    Is there a free trial of wsj, so I can make it forever? :)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Starmaker@21:1/5 to Physfitfreak on Wed Oct 4 22:57:03 2023
    XPost: sci.physics.relativity

    Physfitfreak wrote:

    On 10/4/2023 4:10 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
    The Starmaker wrote:

    Is there a free trial of wsj, so I can make it forever? :)


    ask mr. git hub

    --
    The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
    to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable,
    and challenge the unchallengeable.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Physfitfreak@21:1/5 to The Starmaker on Fri Oct 6 18:21:56 2023
    XPost: sci.physics.relativity

    On 10/4/2023 6:20 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
    dis link contains the whole article: https://www.livemint.com/science/after-shunning-scientist-university-of-pennsylvania-celebrates-her-nobel-prize-11696444798369.html


    The university people in charge of decisions, since Reagan, haven't been
    supposed to be scientists. In top universities in USA a few of them
    still might be scientists, but in all the rest, the closest they ever
    come to "sound like" a scientist are "engineers" in fact, not scientists.

    An "engineer" can have a PhD in one of the natural philosophy fields and calling himself a "scientist", but he's just an "engineer."

    Being "engineer" or scientist has to do with the type of autism
    involved. It is not a matter of degree they hold.

    "Engineer" has normal (average) analytical powers, just like a grocer or
    a salesman, a secretary, but part of wires that in a normal person
    serves the emotional centers are allocated to the fight and flight
    centers (fear based centers). That's why most terrorists have been
    "engineers."

    A scientist has superior analytical power compared to a normal person
    because some of the fear based wires are allocated to analytical areas.
    That's why he is so patient and painstakingly takes his correct steps
    toward understanding anything he wants.

    Two different creatures!

    The "engineer" type people were in charge in that university, and you
    saw how they goofed up when dealing with a bright scientist.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Thomas Heger@21:1/5 to All on Sat Oct 7 08:07:28 2023
    XPost: sci.physics.relativity

    Am 07.10.2023 um 01:21 schrieb Physfitfreak:

    The university people in charge of decisions, since Reagan, haven't been
    supposed to be scientists. In top universities in USA a few of them
    still might be scientists, but in all the rest, the closest they ever
    come to "sound like" a scientist are "engineers" in fact, not scientists.

    An "engineer" can have a PhD in one of the natural philosophy fields and calling himself a "scientist", but he's just an "engineer."

    Being "engineer" or scientist has to do with the type of autism
    involved. It is not a matter of degree they hold.

    "Engineer" has normal (average) analytical powers, just like a grocer or
    a salesman, a secretary, but part of wires that in a normal person
    serves the emotional centers are allocated to the fight and flight
    centers (fear based centers). That's why most terrorists have been "engineers."

    A scientist has superior analytical power compared to a normal person
    because some of the fear based wires are allocated to analytical areas. That's why he is so patient and painstakingly takes his correct steps
    toward understanding anything he wants.

    Two different creatures!

    The "engineer" type people were in charge in that university, and you
    saw how they goofed up when dealing with a bright scientist.

    This is actually a very strange statement.

    As far as I know, it does not require to study physics, biology or
    chemistry at a university.

    And I had never encountered the type of people you seem to have in mind
    in any of these sciences (at the university).

    Maybe this is different in the USA than in Germany (were I live).

    But here the autists have no real advantage in science.

    That disease is actually often misinterpreted and related to the so
    calle 'Savant syndrom', where people have occasionally exceptional
    abilities.

    But usually autism causes a lack of mental abilities.

    I'm personally an engineer and do not agree to your statement from my
    own perspective, too, as engineers can actually be quite smart and
    certainly are able to solve problems and to achiever their goals.



    TH




    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Physfitfreak@21:1/5 to Thomas Heger on Sat Oct 7 02:29:57 2023
    XPost: sci.physics.relativity

    On 10/7/2023 1:07 AM, Thomas Heger wrote:


    I'm personally an engineer and do not agree to your statement from my

    You are, and yes you wouldn't.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Thomas Heger@21:1/5 to All on Sun Oct 8 07:28:54 2023
    XPost: sci.physics.relativity

    Am 07.10.2023 um 09:29 schrieb Physfitfreak:
    On 10/7/2023 1:07 AM, Thomas Heger wrote:


    I'm personally an engineer and do not agree to your statement from my

    You are, and yes you wouldn't.

    Could you, please, be so kind and write in complete sentences?

    TH

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Starmaker@21:1/5 to starmaker@ix.netcom.com on Tue Oct 31 14:10:24 2023
    XPost: sci.physics.relativity

    On Wed, 04 Oct 2023 22:57:03 -0700, The Starmaker
    <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

    Physfitfreak wrote:

    On 10/4/2023 4:10 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
    The Starmaker wrote:

    Is there a free trial of wsj, so I can make it forever? :)


    ask mr. git hub



    now, those of yous waiting for your favorites to be...updated..

    you can use this for the time being:

    https://archive.is/


    just insert complete url.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Starmaker@21:1/5 to The Starmaker on Tue Oct 31 21:58:08 2023
    XPost: sci.physics.relativity

    The Starmaker wrote:

    On Wed, 04 Oct 2023 22:57:03 -0700, The Starmaker
    <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

    Physfitfreak wrote:

    On 10/4/2023 4:10 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
    The Starmaker wrote:

    Is there a free trial of wsj, so I can make it forever? :)


    ask mr. git hub

    now, those of yous waiting for your favorites to be...updated..

    you can use this for the time being:

    https://archive.is/

    just insert complete url.

    complete url means full url of 'the article'.





    --
    The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
    to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable,
    and challenge the unchallengeable.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)