• Lightning, static, and humidity

    From Commander Kinsey@21:1/5 to All on Fri Aug 25 17:23:55 2023
    How can lightning build up a charge when it's damp? Static electricity doesn't work that way if you rub a balloon in humid weather.

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  • From mitchrae3323@gmail.com@21:1/5 to Jim Pennino on Fri Aug 25 10:52:14 2023
    On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 10:31:10 AM UTC-7, Jim Pennino wrote:
    Commander Kinsey <C...@nospam.com> wrote:
    How can lightning build up a charge when it's damp? Static electricity doesn't work that way if you rub a balloon in humid weather.
    https://www.nssl.noaa.gov/education/svrwx101/lightning/

    A lightning bolt is in an instant... why does its sound extend as thunder?
    if its source does not?

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  • From Jim Pennino@21:1/5 to Commander Kinsey on Fri Aug 25 10:16:18 2023
    Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
    How can lightning build up a charge when it's damp? Static electricity doesn't work that way if you rub a balloon in humid weather.

    https://www.nssl.noaa.gov/education/svrwx101/lightning/

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  • From Alan Folmsbee@21:1/5 to mitchr...@gmail.com on Fri Aug 25 12:17:42 2023
    On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 1:52:17 PM UTC-4, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 10:31:10 AM UTC-7, Jim Pennino wrote:
    Commander Kinsey <C...@nospam.com> wrote:
    How can lightning build up a charge when it's damp? Static electricity doesn't work that way if you rub a balloon in humid weather.
    https://www.nssl.noaa.gov/education/svrwx101/lightning/
    A lightning bolt is in an instant... why does its sound extend as thunder? if its source does not?
    The lightning has a length of about 2 miles. The sound from the far end
    takes 10 seconds to reach your blouse , while the sound from the near
    end takes about 1 second to reach your skirt.

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  • From Jim Pennino@21:1/5 to mitchr...@gmail.com on Fri Aug 25 15:34:47 2023
    mitchr...@gmail.com <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 10:31:10 AM UTC-7, Jim Pennino wrote:
    Commander Kinsey <C...@nospam.com> wrote:
    How can lightning build up a charge when it's damp? Static electricity doesn't work that way if you rub a balloon in humid weather.
    https://www.nssl.noaa.gov/education/svrwx101/lightning/

    A lightning bolt is in an instant... why does its sound extend as thunder?
    if its source does not?

    Because the hot plasma formed expands rapidly forming a shock wave, moron.

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  • From Commander Kinsey@21:1/5 to Jim Pennino on Sat Sep 9 20:13:13 2023
    On Fri, 25 Aug 2023 18:16:18 +0100, Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> wrote:

    Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
    How can lightning build up a charge when it's damp? Static electricity doesn't work that way if you rub a balloon in humid weather.

    https://www.nssl.noaa.gov/education/svrwx101/lightning/

    I can't find anything in there about why damp air doesn't conduct.

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  • From Timothy Golden@21:1/5 to Commander Kinsey on Sun Sep 10 08:39:03 2023
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 3:14:15 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
    On Fri, 25 Aug 2023 18:16:18 +0100, Jim Pennino <ji...@gonzo.specsol.net> wrote:

    Commander Kinsey <C...@nospam.com> wrote:
    How can lightning build up a charge when it's damp? Static electricity doesn't work that way if you rub a balloon in humid weather.

    https://www.nssl.noaa.gov/education/svrwx101/lightning/
    I can't find anything in there about why damp air doesn't conduct.

    Distilled water does not conduct.

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  • From Andy Everett@21:1/5 to Commander Kinsey on Sun Sep 10 09:04:31 2023
    On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 3:14:15 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
    On Fri, 25 Aug 2023 18:16:18 +0100, Jim Pennino <ji...@gonzo.specsol.net> wrote:

    Commander Kinsey <C...@nospam.com> wrote:
    How can lightning build up a charge when it's damp? Static electricity doesn't work that way if you rub a balloon in humid weather.

    https://www.nssl.noaa.gov/education/svrwx101/lightning/
    I can't find anything in there about why damp air doesn't conduct.

    Google search "break down voltage of dry air verses wet air"

    https://www.google.com/search?q=break+down+voltage+of+dry+air+verses+wet+air&oq=break+down+voltage+of+dry+air+verses+wet+air&aqs=chrome..69i57j33i10i160j33i22i29i30l2.22295j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

    First result, "Breakdown voltage of air vs humidity
    Although the breakdown voltage of dry air is 30 kV/cm, environmental factors such as increased humidity and air pressure may reduce this, 40 leading to potentially dangerous arcing between the electrodes. ..."

    https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Breakdown-voltage-in-air-versus-relative-humidity-with-an-alumina-surface-Electrode_fig17_3165903#:~:text=Although%20the%20breakdown%20voltage%20of,dangerous%20arcing%20between%20the%20electrodes.

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  • From Claudius Denk@21:1/5 to Jim Pennino on Sun Sep 10 09:34:10 2023
    On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 10:31:10 AM UTC-7, Jim Pennino wrote:
    Commander Kinsey <C...@nospam.com> wrote:
    How can lightning build up a charge when it's damp? Static electricity doesn't work that way if you rub a balloon in humid weather.
    https://www.nssl.noaa.gov/education/svrwx101/lightning/

    You got nothing, you link dropping moron.

    Go away. Everybody here knows how to use a search engine, you pinhead.

    CD

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  • From William Hyde@21:1/5 to Commander Kinsey on Sun Sep 10 11:37:33 2023
    On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 12:24:03 PM UTC-4, Commander Kinsey wrote:
    How can lightning build up a charge when it's damp? Static electricity doesn't work that way if you rub a balloon in humid weather.

    It's a dynamic process, based on the differential fall rates of droplets depending on their sizes.

    Imagine droplets in an updraft, strong enough that the small drops are lifted while the larger ones are
    falling. Due to the Earth's electric field, these drops are polarized, with positive charges on
    their lower halves and negative above.

    When there is a grazing collision between a small droplet and a large, the negative area of the small droplet will
    come into contact with the positive area of the large. Charge will be exchanged, and when the two droplets
    separate, the small will be positively charged and the large negatively charged. If this process carries on long
    enough the upper reaches of the cloud will amass a large positive charge, the lower a negative. If this grows
    large enough, the conductivity of the air will allow lightning, from the negatively charged region to the
    positive, from the negative to the ground, or to another cloud.

    Of course, things are really more complex than the simple scheme given above. Ice is always, or nearly
    always, present along with liquid water. Charge separation works more efficiently with ice particles
    added to the water.

    Bernard Vonnegut and others ran experiments with a strong electric field at ground level which
    produced clouds with a reversed charge distribution.

    William Hyde

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  • From Physfitfreak@21:1/5 to Timothy Golden on Sun Sep 10 15:13:30 2023
    On 9/10/2023 10:39 AM, Timothy Golden wrote:


    Distilled water does not conduct.


    I wouldn't be that confident!

    It does conduct, but very slightly. How can one prevent a solution of
    molecules from having _some_ degree of ionization of those same
    molecules? Are you god?... Hehe :)

    Even god cannot do that.




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  • From Jim Pennino@21:1/5 to Claudius Denk on Mon Sep 11 10:49:02 2023
    Claudius Denk <claudiusdenk@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 10:31:10 AM UTC-7, Jim Pennino wrote:
    Commander Kinsey <C...@nospam.com> wrote:
    How can lightning build up a charge when it's damp? Static electricity doesn't work that way if you rub a balloon in humid weather.
    https://www.nssl.noaa.gov/education/svrwx101/lightning/

    You got nothing, you link dropping moron.

    The delusionally insane crackpot has awakened.


    Go away. Everybody here knows how to use a search engine, you pinhead.

    Everyone that is other than the delusionally insane crackpot who does
    not read online information or printed books, including dictionaries,
    because the information threatens his delusions.



    CD

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