• Is Spacetime Flat or Curved ?

    From 44socrat@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Thu Dec 21 00:02:40 2017
    Many cosmologists believe that '' spacetime is curved ''
    ====
    The spacetime (as whole ) is cold continuum.
    The light travels in this continuum in a straight line.
    But near the hot masses of stars light can be curved.
    Not spacetime curves but the movement of light is curved by hot masses.
    #
    Sun changes the road of light like a car changes its movement by road
    but Euclidian geometry of Earth remains unchanged.
    #
    Sun (and its surrounded space) curves the straight movement of light quanta, but the geometry of Pseudo Euclidian (Minkovski ) spacetime remains unchanged.

    =====================
    Israel Sadovnik Socratus

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  • From 44socrat@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Thu Dec 21 22:13:19 2017
    Local Curvature of Space
    According to Einstein’s theory of general relativity, massive objects warp the spacetime around them, and the effect a warp has on objects is what we call gravity.
    So, locally, spacetime is curved around every object with mass.

    http://www.skyandtelescope.com/astronomy-resources/curvature-of-spacece/

    Only '' around every (local - hot) object with mass.'' light is curved.
    The mass-objects in the universe (as whole) is very few.
    Therefore the universe (as whole) is a flat spacetime (vacuum) continuum.
    #
    Different objects and all different waves act in vacuum.
    (one of vacuum's name is spacetime because in vacuum space and time are united) ===================================
    Israel Sadovnik Socratus

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  • From 44socrat@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Sat Dec 23 00:27:17 2017
    a)
    The fourth dimension (an absolute spacetime) is the
    negative two (-2) dimensions flat negative Pseudo Euclidian spacetime.
    ( + 4-D = -2D )
    b)
    We know only one system where apace and time are united and this
    is Vacuum. Spacetime = Vacuum.
    c)
    From this absolute spacetime (vacuum) our three dimensions + time
    Earth - gravity existence were created.
    d)
    We don't need 5-D, 11-D, 27-D . . . etc. to explain the Existence.

    ==================

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  • From Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn@21:1/5 to 44socrat@gmail.com on Thu Jan 4 21:08:13 2018
    44socrat@gmail.com wrote:

    a)
    The fourth dimension (an absolute spacetime) is the
    negative two (-2) dimensions flat negative Pseudo Euclidian spacetime.
    ( + 4-D = -2D )

    Not even wrong. Please educate yourself.

    --
    PointedEars

    Twitter: @PointedEars2
    Please do not cc me. /Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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  • From Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn@21:1/5 to 44socrat@gmail.com on Thu Jan 4 21:07:24 2018
    44socrat@gmail.com wrote:

    Many cosmologists believe that '' spacetime is curved ''

    You are off-topic. This belongs in .relativity instead.

    ====
    The spacetime (as whole ) is cold continuum.

    No. Spacetime is a mathematical model of the geometry of the universe. Temperature does not feature in it directly.

    The light travels in this continuum in a straight line.

    If, and only if, the spacetime through which it travels is flat (pseudo- Euclidean).

    But near the hot masses of stars light can be curved.

    It does not matter that the stars are hot. All that matters is the density
    of stress, energy and momentum. Mostly energy density, and as rest energy
    is equivalent to mass, mass density matters most.

    IOW, a brown dwarf or a Sun-like dwarf of the same mass as a red giant will “curve light” in the same way, even though its average temperature is much lower.

    Not spacetime curves but the movement of light is curved by hot masses.

    Black holes (without jets) are among the coldest things there are as they
    emit only Hawking radiation, if any; yet they “curve light” that much that they can act as gravitational lenses, magnifying objects far behind them for
    us to observe.

    This refutes your argument.

    [Further misconceptions and fallacies]

    Pass “Physics 101” first.

    --
    PointedEars

    Twitter: @PointedEars2
    Please do not cc me. /Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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  • From margaretporat@gmail.com@21:1/5 to 44so...@gmail.com on Wed Jun 26 16:53:18 2019
    On Thursday, December 21, 2017 at 10:02:41 AM UTC+2, 44so...@gmail.com wrote:
    Many cosmologists believe that '' spacetime is curved ''
    ====
    The spacetime (as whole ) is cold continuum.
    The light travels in this continuum in a straight line.
    But near the hot masses of stars light can be curved.
    Not spacetime curves but the movement of light is curved by hot masses.
    #
    Sun changes the road of light like a car changes its movement by road
    but Euclidian geometry of Earth remains unchanged.
    #
    Sun (and its surrounded space) curves the straight movement of light quanta, but the geometry of Pseudo Euclidian (Minkovski ) spacetime remains unchanged.

    =====================
    Israel Sadovnik Socratus
    ========================
    space is nothing
    and if so
    it is not curved and not scmerved


    IT (all forces IS ALL DONE BY MASS!!

    ATB
    Y.Porat
    ==============

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  • From poraty4@gmail.com@21:1/5 to 44so...@gmail.com on Fri Jul 5 15:05:18 2019
    On Friday, December 22, 2017 at 8:13:21 AM UTC+2, 44so...@gmail.com wrote:
    Local Curvature of Space
    According to Einstein’s theory of general relativity, massive objects warp the spacetime around them, and the effect a warp has on objects is what we call gravity.

    ===================================
    (:-)
    if so which is the active part there ??
    space or mess ????
    you say
    mass ** is wrapping ''(mass is warped '' )
    it means that the active entity
    is ....... mass!!!
    and that s it!!! full stop!!
    2
    see the y circlon mechanism http://sites.google.com/site/theyporatmodel/an-abstract
    at its appendix !!

    TIA
    Y.P
    ====================


    So, locally, spacetime is curved around every object with mass.

    http://www.skyandtelescope.com/astronomy-resources/curvature-of-spacece/

    Only '' around every (local - hot) object with mass.'' light is curved.
    The mass-objects in the universe (as whole) is very few.
    Therefore the universe (as whole) is a flat spacetime (vacuum) continuum.
    #
    Different objects and all different waves act in vacuum.
    (one of vacuum's name is spacetime because in vacuum space and time are united)
    ===================================
    Israel Sadovnik Socratus

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  • From Tom Roberts@21:1/5 to poraty4@gmail.com on Fri Jul 5 18:22:32 2019
    On 7/5/19 5:05 PM, poraty4@gmail.com wrote:
    On Friday, December 22, 2017 at 8:13:21 AM UTC+2, 44so...@gmail.com wrote:
    Local Curvature of Space
    According to Einstein’s theory of general relativity, massive objects warp >> the spacetime around them, and the effect a warp has on objects is what we call gravity.

    ===================================
    (:-)
    if so which is the active part there ??
    space or mess ????
    you say
    mass ** is wrapping ''(mass is warped '' )
    it means that the active entity
    is ....... mass!!!
    and that s it!!! full stop!!

    No, that is NOT it. The "source" of curvature in GR is the full
    energy-momentum tensor, not just mass. So even massless phenomena such
    as electromagnetic fields and waves can generate spacetime curvature,
    and thus gravity.

    Tom Roberts

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  • From poraty4@gmail.com@21:1/5 to Tom Roberts on Fri Jul 5 23:02:49 2019
    On Saturday, July 6, 2019 at 2:22:40 AM UTC+3, Tom Roberts wrote:
    On 7/5/19 5:05 PM, poraty4@gmail.com wrote:
    On Friday, December 22, 2017 at 8:13:21 AM UTC+2, 44so...@gmail.com wrote:
    Local Curvature of Space
    According to Einstein’s theory of general relativity, massive objects warp
    the spacetime around them, and the effect a warp has on objects is what we call gravity.

    ===================================
    (:-)
    if so which is the active part there ??
    space or mess ????
    you say
    mass ** is wrapping ''(mass is warped '' )



    ======================

    Mr professional parrot
    it means that the active entity
    is ....... mass!!!

    see for instance the
    Faraday experiment with the permanent magnet
    and you will get wiser unless you are a born parrot
    or may be
    you are making your life income as a teacher
    from f en ''curved space time ''''

    TIA
    Y.Porat
    ===============

    and that s it!!! full stop!!

    No, that is NOT it. The "source" of curvature in GR is the full energy-momentum tensor, not just mass. So even massless phenomena such
    as electromagnetic fields and waves can generate spacetime curvature,
    and thus gravity.

    Tom Roberts

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  • From poraty4@gmail.com@21:1/5 to por...@gmail.com on Sat Jul 13 08:36:57 2019
    On Saturday, July 6, 2019 at 9:02:50 AM UTC+3, por...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Saturday, July 6, 2019 at 2:22:40 AM UTC+3, Tom Roberts wrote:
    On 7/5/19 5:05 PM, poraty4@gmail.com wrote:
    On Friday, December 22, 2017 at 8:13:21 AM UTC+2, 44so...@gmail.com wrote:
    Local Curvature of Space
    According to Einstein’s theory of general relativity, massive objects warp
    the spacetime around them, and the effect a warp has on objects is what we call gravity.

    ===================================
    (:-)
    if so which is the active part there ??
    space or mess ????
    you say
    mass ** is wrapping ''(mass is warped '' )



    ======================

    Mr professional parrot
    it means that the active entity
    is ....... mass!!!

    see for instance the
    Faraday experiment with the permanent magnet
    and you will get wiser unless you are a born parrot
    or may be
    you are making your life income as a teacher
    from f en ''curved space time ''''

    TIA
    Y.Porat
    ===============

    and that s it!!! full stop!!

    No, that is NOT it. The "source" of curvature in GR is the full energy-momentum tensor,
    ================================
    physics is not mathematics !!just impressive vooddo magic
    mumbling

    if you yourself dont understand what you are mumbling
    how do you expect that others will swallow it ??
    do you consider all others as idiots ??

    how do you expect that others will be impressed
    not just mass. So even massless phenomena such
    as electromagnetic fields

    Mr cureless parrot
    some news for you

    even em waves HAS MASS
    THE MASS THE REAL SINGLE PHOTON
    ia BOUT (sit still on your chair)
    is about
    exp -90 kilogram !!!
    i proved i many times in past
    in this very ng !!


    and waves can generate spacetime curvature,
    ??
    and can lie eggs of birds as well
    and thus gravity.
    ==
    bravo!!
    you are a NOBEL PRIZE
    ========================
    ATB
    Y.P
    =====================

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  • From poraty4@gmail.com@21:1/5 to 44so...@gmail.com on Sat Nov 23 03:03:47 2019
    On Thursday, December 21, 2017 at 10:02:41 AM UTC+2, 44so...@gmail.com wrote:
    Many cosmologists believe that '' spacetime is curved ''
    ====
    The spacetime (as whole ) is cold continuum.
    The light travels in this continuum in a straight line.
    But near the hot masses of stars light can be curved.
    Not spacetime curves but the movement of light is curved by hot masses.
    #
    Sun changes the road of light like a car changes its movement by road
    but Euclidian geometry of Earth remains unchanged.
    #
    Sun (and its surrounded space) curves the straight movement of light quanta, but the geometry of Pseudo Euclidian (Minkovski ) spacetime remains unchanged.

    =====================
    Israel Sadovnik Socratus
    ==================
    space is nothing
    not curved
    bot flat
    it is nothing
    ==
    P
    =======

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  • From poraty4@gmail.com@21:1/5 to por...@gmail.com on Sat Nov 30 03:16:48 2019
    On Saturday, November 23, 2019 at 1:03:49 PM UTC+2, por...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Thursday, December 21, 2017 at 10:02:41 AM UTC+2, 44so...@gmail.com wrote:
    Many cosmologists believe that '' spacetime is curved ''
    ====
    The spacetime (as whole ) is cold continuum.
    The light travels in this continuum in a straight line.
    But near the hot masses of stars light can be curved.
    Not spacetime curves but the movement of light is curved by hot masses.
    #
    Sun changes the road of light like a car changes its movement by road
    but Euclidian geometry of Earth remains unchanged.
    #
    Sun (and its surrounded space) curves the straight movement of light quanta,
    but the geometry of Pseudo Euclidian (Minkovski ) spacetime remains unchanged.

    =====================
    Israel Sadovnik Socratus
    ==================
    space is nothing
    not curved
    bot flat
    it is nothing
    ==
    P
    =======
    mass is the creator of all forces !!
    nothing to do with curved or 'chmerved space
    space is nothing
    it is all done by mass
    ====
    copy right
    Y.Porat
    ========================

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  • From margaretporat@gmail.com@21:1/5 to Tom Roberts on Sun Jul 26 02:14:37 2020
    On Saturday, July 6, 2019 at 2:22:40 AM UTC+3, Tom Roberts wrote:
    On 7/5/19 5:05 PM, poraty4@gmail.com wrote:
    On Friday, December 22, 2017 at 8:13:21 AM UTC+2, 44so...@gmail.com wrote:
    Local Curvature of Space
    According to Einstein’s theory of general relativity, massive objects warp
    the spacetime around them, and the effect a warp has on objects is what we call gravity.

    ===================================
    (:-)
    if so which is the active part there ??
    space or mess ????
    you say
    mass ** is wrapping ''(mass is warped '' )
    it means that the active entity
    is ....... mass!!!
    and that s it!!! full stop!!

    No, that is NOT it. The "source" of curvature in GR is the full energy-momentum tensor, not just mass. So even massless phenomena such
    as electromagnetic fields and waves
    ================================
    electromagnetic field
    has no mass """"????

    you look like Baron Munchausen
    that was pulling himself from the mud
    by puling up himself out of mud by pulling his booth straps up
    in other words
    ie
    correcting his mistake by by using another mistake

    Now listen carefully to your old friend
    WE CANNOT DETECT ***ANY OBJECT***
    IF IT HAS NO MASS !!!
    TIA
    Y.P
    ==================

    just remember who told it to you
    the first time ….
    ==================


    can generate spacetime curvature,
    and thus gravity.

    Tom Roberts

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  • From Tom Roberts@21:1/5 to margaretporat@gmail.com on Sun Jul 26 13:53:17 2020
    On 7/26/20 4:14 AM, margaretporat@gmail.com wrote:
    On Saturday, July 6, 2019 at 2:22:40 AM UTC+3, Tom Roberts wrote:
    The "source" of curvature in GR is the full
    energy-momentum tensor, not just mass. So even massless phenomena such
    as electromagnetic fields and waves
    ================================
    electromagnetic field
    has no mass """"????

    Yes. In classical electrodynamics it is quite clear that the EM field is massless. In QED, the theory assigns zero mass to photons, and the
    experimental upper bound on the photon mass is 1E-18 eV, a fantastically
    tiny upper bound.

    WE CANNOT DETECT ***ANY OBJECT***
    IF IT HAS NO MASS !!!

    So you claim, and keep repeating, without any justification whatsoever.

    I point out that we do indeed detect photons, even though they
    presumably have zero mass.

    I also point out that we detect sound waves, waves on the beach, and
    many other types of waves, all of which CLEARLY have no mass -- they are
    just specific kinds of synchronized movements.

    Tom Roberts

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  • From margaretporat@gmail.com@21:1/5 to Tom Roberts on Fri Jul 31 08:35:15 2020
    On Sunday, July 26, 2020 at 9:53:24 PM UTC+3, Tom Roberts wrote:
    On 7/26/20 4:14 AM, margaretporat@gmail.com wrote:
    On Saturday, July 6, 2019 at 2:22:40 AM UTC+3, Tom Roberts wrote:
    The "source" of curvature in GR is the full
    energy-momentum tensor, not just mass. So even massless phenomena such
    as electromagnetic fields and waves
    ================================
    electromagnetic field
    has no mass """"????

    Yes. In classical electrodynamics it is quite clear that the EM field is massless. In QED, the theory assigns zero mass to photons, and the experimental upper bound on the photon mass is 1E-18 eV, a fantastically
    tiny upper bound.

    WE CANNOT DETECT ***ANY OBJECT***
    IF IT HAS NO MASS !!!

    So you claim, and keep repeating, without any justification whatsoever.

    I point out that we do indeed detect photons, even though they
    presumably have zero mass.

    I also point out that we detect sound waves, waves on the beach, and
    many other types of waves, all of which CLEARLY have no mass -- they are
    just specific kinds of synchronized movements.

    Tom Roberts
    =========================
    some news for you
    the mass he **single*photon is about
    exp-80 KG
    see Google old thread of

    'the mass of the real single ton
    ===
    Y.P
    ================

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