Consider the Nyquist criterion for sampling a continuousWell lamda/ D (diameter of lens). But sure it's a kinda a spacial
waveform - 2x bandwidth - then the Rayleigh resolution
principle - peaks must separate by at least 1 wavelength.
Don't these look much analogous?
Especially as λ = 1/f
Ruminating a bit more... Nyquist sampling can be
viewed as a mandate to sample each period, at least
twice. And, Rayleigh mandates that the image be
'sampled' twice, in the sense of a peak and trough.
It strikes me they may be equivalent, in some deeper
sense. Has anyone ever tried to derive such a result,
mathematically?
I can't be the first to ever conjecture this -
--
Rich
Consider the Nyquist criterion for sampling a continuous
waveform - 2x bandwidth - then the Rayleigh resolution
principle - peaks must separate by at least 1 wavelength.
Don't these look much analogous?
Especially as λ = 1/f
Ruminating a bit more... Nyquist sampling can be
viewed as a mandate to sample each period, at least
twice. And, Rayleigh mandates that the image be
'sampled' twice, in the sense of a peak and trough.
It strikes me they may be equivalent, in some deeper
sense. Has anyone ever tried to derive such a result,
mathematically?
I can't be the first to ever conjecture this -
--
Rich
Consider the Nyquist criterion for sampling a continuous
waveform - 2x bandwidth - then the Rayleigh resolution
principle - peaks must separate by at least 1 wavelength.
Don't these look much analogous?
Especially as λ = 1/f
Ruminating a bit more... Nyquist sampling can be
viewed as a mandate to sample each period, at least
twice. And, Rayleigh mandates that the image be
'sampled' twice, in the sense of a peak and trough.
It strikes me they may be equivalent, in some deeper
sense. Has anyone ever tried to derive such a result,
mathematically?
I can't be the first to ever conjecture this -
--
Rich
On Wednesday, December 13, 2017 at 2:36:45 AM UTC+3, RichD wrote:
Consider the Nyquist criterion for sampling a continuous waveform -
2x bandwidth - then the Rayleigh resolution principle - peaks must
separate by at least 1 wavelength.
Don't these look much analogous? Especially as λ = 1/f
Ruminating a bit more... Nyquist sampling can be viewed as a
mandate to sample each period, at least twice. And, Rayleigh
mandates that the image be 'sampled' twice, in the sense of a peak
and trough.
It strikes me they may be equivalent, in some deeper sense. Has
anyone ever tried to derive such a result, mathematically?
I can't be the first to ever conjecture this -
-- Rich
Both Rayleigh Limit and Nyquist Rate are so 20th century.. They are
basically hard limits for differentiation between two close entities
(in time or space). It has been shown that you can operate below
these limits; that is for good enough snr optical systems yo can
achieve resolutions below rayleigh limit, and for sparse or
compressible (lossy usually) data you can use undersampling or
compressive sampling. It is in the EOTB, if you can understand what
you see or hear that is enough. Regards, Asaf http://www.laserfocusworld.com/articles/print/volume-52/issue-12/world-news/imaging-theory-breaking-rayleigh-s-limit-imaging-resolution-not-defined-by-the-criterion.html
On 12/13/2017 02:36 PM, Behzat Sahin wrote:
On Wednesday, December 13, 2017 at 2:36:45 AM UTC+3, RichD wrote:
Consider the Nyquist criterion for sampling a continuous waveform -
2x bandwidth - then the Rayleigh resolution principle - peaks must
separate by at least 1 wavelength.
Don't these look much analogous? Especially as λ = 1/f
Ruminating a bit more... Nyquist sampling can be viewed as a
mandate to sample each period, at least twice. And, Rayleigh
mandates that the image be 'sampled' twice, in the sense of a peak
and trough.
It strikes me they may be equivalent, in some deeper sense. Has
anyone ever tried to derive such a result, mathematically?
I can't be the first to ever conjecture this -
-- Rich
Both Rayleigh Limit and Nyquist Rate are so 20th century.. They are basically hard limits for differentiation between two close entities
(in time or space). It has been shown that you can operate below
these limits; that is for good enough snr optical systems yo can
achieve resolutions below rayleigh limit, and for sparse or
compressible (lossy usually) data you can use undersampling or
compressive sampling. It is in the EOTB, if you can understand what
you see or hear that is enough. Regards, Asaf http://www.laserfocusworld.com/articles/print/volume-52/issue-12/world-news/imaging-theory-breaking-rayleigh-s-limit-imaging-resolution-not-defined-by-the-criterion.html
statweb.stanford.edu/~markad/publications/ddek-chapter1-2011.pdf
Spoken like a true software guy. ;)
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com
Both Rayleigh Limit and Nyquist Rate are so 20th century.. They are basically hard limits for differentiation between two close entities (in time or space).
On Wednesday, December 13, 2017 at 11:36:36 AM UTC-8, Behzat Sahin wrote:
Both Rayleigh Limit and Nyquist Rate are so 20th century.. They are basically hard limits for differentiation between two close entities (in time or space).
The Rayleigh limit is only correct for very low signal/noise ratios, Shannon's theorem
supersedes it (so resolving doublets an order of magnitude closer than Rayleigh
limit is quite possible). Nyquist is only a discrete-transform theorem, the uncertainty principles of quantum mechanics have broader coverage of resolution limitations.
FFT and commutator mathematics are, indeed, 'so 20th century'.
The Rayleigh limit is only correct for very low signal/noise ratios
FFT and commutator mathematics are, indeed, 'so 20th century'.
Consider the Nyquist criterion for sampling a continuous
waveform - 2x bandwidth - then the Rayleigh resolution
principle - peaks must separate by at least 1 wavelength.
Nyquist sampling can be
viewed as a mandate to sample each period, at least
twice. And, Rayleigh mandates that the image be
'sampled' twice, in the sense of a peak and trough.
It strikes me they may be equivalent, in some deeper
sense. Has anyone ever tried to derive such a result,
mathematically?
The Rayleigh criterion also uses both real and Fourier space, but it's a heuristic based on visual or photographic detection, and not anything
very fundamental. The idea is that if you have two point sources
close together, you can tell that there are two
and not just one if they're separated by at least the diameter of the
Airy disc (the central peak of the point spread function). The two are
then said to be _resolved_.
Usually when we use a
telescope or a microscope, we just want to look and see what's there,
without having some a priori model in mind. In that case, resolution
does degrade roughly in line with Rayleigh, though there's no aliasing
or spectral leakage as there is with poorly-designed sampling systems.
There is an analogue of aliasing in optics, namely grating orders.
On December 16, whit3rd wrote:
The Rayleigh limit is only correct for very low signal/noise ratios
What is the assumed S/N such that the Rayleigh limit holds?
FFT and commutator mathematics are, indeed, 'so 20th century'.
commutator mathematics?
--
Rich
On December 13, Phil Hobbs wrote:
Consider the Nyquist criterion for sampling a continuous
waveform - 2x bandwidth - then the Rayleigh resolution
principle - peaks must separate by at least 1 wavelength.
Nyquist sampling can be
viewed as a mandate to sample each period, at least
twice. And, Rayleigh mandates that the image be
'sampled' twice, in the sense of a peak and trough.
It strikes me they may be equivalent, in some deeper
sense. Has anyone ever tried to derive such a result,
mathematically?
The Rayleigh criterion also uses both real and Fourier space, but it's a
heuristic based on visual or photographic detection, and not anything
very fundamental. The idea is that if you have two point sources
close together, you can tell that there are two
and not just one if they're separated by at least the diameter of the
Airy disc (the central peak of the point spread function). The two are
then said to be _resolved_.
The confusing bit is, the Rayleigh criterion is usually
presented as a hard limit, something mathematically precise,
not as a heuristic.
Usually when we use a
telescope or a microscope, we just want to look and see what's there,
without having some a priori model in mind. In that case, resolution
does degrade roughly in line with Rayleigh, though there's no aliasing
or spectral leakage as there is with poorly-designed sampling systems.
In other words, diffraction limited, as the spacing decreases?
There is an analogue of aliasing in optics, namely grating orders.
That would be, if the grating spacing is larger than λ?
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