• Re: Biden gaffs...France recalls ambassadors to US and Australia in res

    From Keith Willshaw@21:1/5 to Leroy N. Soetoro on Mon Sep 27 15:57:39 2021
    XPost: alt.france, aus.politics

    On 25/09/2021 20:00, Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/france-recalls-ambassadors-to-u-s-and- australia-in-response-to-aukus-nuclear-submarine-pact

    France recalled its ambassadors to the United States and Australia in response to a pact signed by the two countries along with the United
    Kingdom that the French referred to as a stab in the back.

    "At the request of President Macron, I have decided to immediately recall
    our ambassadors to the United States and Australia to Paris for consultations," French Minister for Europe and Foreign Affairs Jean-Yves
    Le Drain said in a statement Friday.

    MACRON HAILS DEATH OF ISIS TERRORIST WHO KILLED US TROOPS AS MAJOR WIN

    France has expressed outrage after an announcement this week of a pact between Australia, the United Kingdom, and the U.S. that will provide
    nuclear submarines to Australia and scrap an agreement previously made to send French-made submarines to Australia.

    "The abandonment of the ocean-class submarine project that Australia and France had been working on since 2016 and the announcement of a new partnership with the United States aimed at studying the possibility of future cooperation on nuclear-powered submarines constitute unacceptable behavior among allies and partners; their consequences affect the very concept we have of our alliances, our partnerships, and the importance of
    the Indo-Pacific for Europe," the statement added.

    FRANCE ISSUES ANGRY RESPONSE TO NUCLEAR SUBMARINE DEAL BETWEEN US, UK, AUSTRALIA

    Earlier in the week, Le Drain told a French radio station that the pact, known as AUKUS and widely perceived as a challenge to China�s presence in the region, was a "stab in the back" and that France had been "betrayed."

    Le Drain also compared President Biden to former President Trump.

    "This brutal, unilateral and unpredictable decision reminds me a lot of
    what Mr. Trump used to do," Le Drian said. "I am angry and bitter. This
    isn't done between allies."

    CLICK TO GET THE FOX NEWS APP

    White House press secretary Jen Psaki denied that the move had created a "regional divide" and said that France was notified of the deal prior to
    the announcement.

    A White House official told Fox News that the Biden administration
    "regrets" France's decision but "will continue to be engaged in the coming days to resolve our differences."




    So much for free trade and competition, the 'gaff' concerned was
    allowing the US and Britain to compete with France when it came to
    Australia ordering its first nuclear submarines.

    In terms of rating the general consensus that the top 3 SSN's are
    1) US Seawolf Class
    2) US Virginia Class

    The French Barracuda/Suffren class boats are considerably smaller and
    less capable than the British and UK offerings but with pump jet
    propulsion should be quieter than the Chinese SSN's

    Cross postings trimmed.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Petzl@21:1/5 to keithwillshaw@gmail.com on Tue Sep 28 08:27:39 2021
    XPost: alt.france, aus.politics

    On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 15:57:39 +0100, Keith Willshaw
    <keithwillshaw@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 25/09/2021 20:00, Leroy N. Soetoro wrote: <https://www.foxnews.com/politics/france-recalls-ambassadors-to-u-s-and-australia-in-response-to-aukus-nuclear-submarine-pact>
    https://is.gd/jZN33y

    So much for free trade and competition, the 'gaff' concerned was
    allowing the US and Britain to compete with France when it came to
    Australia ordering its first nuclear submarines.

    In terms of rating the general consensus that the top 3 SSN's are
    1) US Seawolf Class
    2) US Virginia Class

    The French Barracuda/Suffren class boats are considerably smaller and
    less capable than the British and UK offerings but with pump jet
    propulsion should be quieter than the Chinese SSN's

    Cross postings trimmed.

    The French did nothing to progress on Australia's deal other than
    charge money, with which they used against us for completing their
    latest nuclear submarine.
    --
    Petzl
    The problem with socialism is that you
    eventually run out of other people's money.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dechucka@21:1/5 to Petzl on Tue Sep 28 08:37:30 2021
    XPost: alt.france, aus.politics

    On 28/09/2021 8:27 am, Petzl wrote:
    On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 15:57:39 +0100, Keith Willshaw
    <keithwillshaw@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 25/09/2021 20:00, Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
    <https://www.foxnews.com/politics/france-recalls-ambassadors-to-u-s-and-australia-in-response-to-aukus-nuclear-submarine-pact>
    https://is.gd/jZN33y

    So much for free trade and competition, the 'gaff' concerned was
    allowing the US and Britain to compete with France when it came to
    Australia ordering its first nuclear submarines.

    In terms of rating the general consensus that the top 3 SSN's are
    1) US Seawolf Class
    2) US Virginia Class

    The French Barracuda/Suffren class boats are considerably smaller and
    less capable than the British and UK offerings but with pump jet
    propulsion should be quieter than the Chinese SSN's

    Cross postings trimmed.

    The French did nothing to progress on Australia's deal other than
    charge money, with which they used against us for completing their
    latest nuclear submarine.

    The whole Future Submarine program was a screw-up from when Abbot's Gov
    went with modifying a nuke sub to a diesel electric instead of putting
    it out to tender and buying already working subs.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dechucka@21:1/5 to Fran on Tue Sep 28 09:48:10 2021
    XPost: aus.politics

    On 28/09/2021 9:19 am, Fran wrote:
    On 28/09/2021 8:37 am, Dechucka wrote:
    On 28/09/2021 8:27 am, Petzl wrote:
    On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 15:57:39 +0100, Keith Willshaw
    <keithwillshaw@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 25/09/2021 20:00, Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
    <https://www.foxnews.com/politics/france-recalls-ambassadors-to-u-s-and-australia-in-response-to-aukus-nuclear-submarine-pact>

         https://is.gd/jZN33y

    So much for free trade and competition, the 'gaff' concerned was
    allowing the US and Britain to compete with France when it came to
    Australia ordering its first nuclear submarines.

    In terms of rating the general consensus that the top 3 SSN's are
    1) US Seawolf Class
    2) US Virginia Class

    The French Barracuda/Suffren class boats are considerably smaller and
    less capable than the British and UK offerings but with pump jet
    propulsion should be quieter than the Chinese SSN's

    Cross postings trimmed.

    The French did nothing to progress on Australia's deal other than
    charge money, with which they used against us for completing their
    latest nuclear submarine.

    The whole Future Submarine program was a screw-up from when Abbot's
    Gov went with modifying a nuke sub to a diesel electric instead of
    putting it out to tender and buying already working subs.

    And of course the French didn't help themselves with the cost and time blowouts and their arrogance and digging their heels in against doing
    what they'd intitially agreed to do.

    To true but that has occurred with a lot of our defence purchases

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dechucka@21:1/5 to Petzl on Tue Sep 28 09:52:58 2021
    XPost: aus.politics

    On 28/09/2021 9:32 am, Petzl wrote:
    On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 09:19:52 +1000, Fran <f2r2a3@loonynutters.com>
    wrote:

    On 28/09/2021 8:37 am, Dechucka wrote:
    On 28/09/2021 8:27 am, Petzl wrote:
    On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 15:57:39 +0100, Keith Willshaw
    <keithwillshaw@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 25/09/2021 20:00, Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
    <https://www.foxnews.com/politics/france-recalls-ambassadors-to-u-s-and-australia-in-response-to-aukus-nuclear-submarine-pact>

         https://is.gd/jZN33y

    So much for free trade and competition, the 'gaff' concerned was
    allowing the US and Britain to compete with France when it came to
    Australia ordering its first nuclear submarines.

    In terms of rating the general consensus that the top 3 SSN's are
    1) US Seawolf Class
    2) US Virginia Class

    The French Barracuda/Suffren class boats are considerably smaller and >>>>> less capable than the British and UK offerings but with pump jet
    propulsion should be quieter than the Chinese SSN's

    Cross postings trimmed.

    The French did nothing to progress on Australia's deal other than
    charge money, with which they used against us for completing their
    latest nuclear submarine.

    The whole Future Submarine program was a screw-up from when Abbot's Gov
    went with modifying a nuke sub to a diesel electric instead of putting
    it out to tender and buying already working subs.

    And of course the French didn't help themselves with the cost and time
    blowouts and their arrogance and digging their heels in against doing
    what they'd intitially agreed to do.

    The deal was a complete scam. France started making making (with $AU)
    Suffren class completing it in 2020, there is no doubt they were
    trying to stiff Australia with their clapped out expired subs refitted
    with diesel engines.

    Really? We weren't buying the actual subs from France they were being
    built in Adelaide

    ScoMo got wind of this and nicley told the French to FOAD!

    Got wind of what? If what you say is true he should have known as
    Treasurer and acted ages ago on it as PM


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Petzl@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 28 09:32:49 2021
    XPost: aus.politics

    On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 09:19:52 +1000, Fran <f2r2a3@loonynutters.com>
    wrote:

    On 28/09/2021 8:37 am, Dechucka wrote:
    On 28/09/2021 8:27 am, Petzl wrote:
    On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 15:57:39 +0100, Keith Willshaw
    <keithwillshaw@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 25/09/2021 20:00, Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
    <https://www.foxnews.com/politics/france-recalls-ambassadors-to-u-s-and-australia-in-response-to-aukus-nuclear-submarine-pact>

         https://is.gd/jZN33y

    So much for free trade and competition, the 'gaff' concerned was
    allowing the US and Britain to compete with France when it came to
    Australia ordering its first nuclear submarines.

    In terms of rating the general consensus that the top 3 SSN's are
    1) US Seawolf Class
    2) US Virginia Class

    The French Barracuda/Suffren class boats are considerably smaller and
    less capable than the British and UK offerings but with pump jet
    propulsion should be quieter than the Chinese SSN's

    Cross postings trimmed.

    The French did nothing to progress on Australia's deal other than
    charge money, with which they used against us for completing their
    latest nuclear submarine.

    The whole Future Submarine program was a screw-up from when Abbot's Gov
    went with modifying a nuke sub to a diesel electric instead of putting
    it out to tender and buying already working subs.

    And of course the French didn't help themselves with the cost and time >blowouts and their arrogance and digging their heels in against doing
    what they'd intitially agreed to do.

    The deal was a complete scam. France started making making (with $AU)
    Suffren class completing it in 2020, there is no doubt they were
    trying to stiff Australia with their clapped out expired subs refitted
    with diesel engines.
    ScoMo got wind of this and nicley told the French to FOAD!
    --
    Petzl
    We know the Dumb3 are lying,
    they know they are lying,
    they know we know they are lying,
    we know they know we know they are lying,
    but they are still lying. Aleksandr Isayevich Solzhenitsyn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Petzl@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 28 09:22:58 2021
    XPost: alt.france, aus.politics

    On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 08:37:30 +1000, Dechucka <Dechucka1@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On 28/09/2021 8:27 am, Petzl wrote:
    On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 15:57:39 +0100, Keith Willshaw
    <keithwillshaw@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 25/09/2021 20:00, Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
    <https://www.foxnews.com/politics/france-recalls-ambassadors-to-u-s-and-australia-in-response-to-aukus-nuclear-submarine-pact>
    https://is.gd/jZN33y

    So much for free trade and competition, the 'gaff' concerned was
    allowing the US and Britain to compete with France when it came to
    Australia ordering its first nuclear submarines.

    In terms of rating the general consensus that the top 3 SSN's are
    1) US Seawolf Class
    2) US Virginia Class

    The French Barracuda/Suffren class boats are considerably smaller and
    less capable than the British and UK offerings but with pump jet
    propulsion should be quieter than the Chinese SSN's

    Cross postings trimmed.

    The French did nothing to progress on Australia's deal other than
    charge money, with which they used against us for completing their
    latest nuclear submarine.

    The whole Future Submarine program was a screw-up from when Abbot's Gov
    went with modifying a nuke sub to a diesel electric instead of putting
    it out to tender and buying already working subs.

    Correct but France treat Australia NZ like fools so the French should
    never of been in the equation,
    --
    Petzl
    We know the Dumb3 are lying,
    they know they are lying,
    they know we know they are lying,
    we know they know we know they are lying,
    but they are still lying. Aleksandr Isayevich Solzhenitsyn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fran@21:1/5 to Dechucka on Tue Sep 28 09:19:52 2021
    XPost: aus.politics

    On 28/09/2021 8:37 am, Dechucka wrote:
    On 28/09/2021 8:27 am, Petzl wrote:
    On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 15:57:39 +0100, Keith Willshaw
    <keithwillshaw@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 25/09/2021 20:00, Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
    <https://www.foxnews.com/politics/france-recalls-ambassadors-to-u-s-and-australia-in-response-to-aukus-nuclear-submarine-pact>

         https://is.gd/jZN33y

    So much for free trade and competition, the 'gaff' concerned was
    allowing the US and Britain to compete with France when it came to
    Australia ordering its first nuclear submarines.

    In terms of rating the general consensus that the top 3 SSN's are
    1) US Seawolf Class
    2) US Virginia Class

    The French Barracuda/Suffren class boats are considerably smaller and
    less capable than the British and UK offerings but with pump jet
    propulsion should be quieter than the Chinese SSN's

    Cross postings trimmed.

    The French did nothing to progress on Australia's deal other than
    charge money, with which they used against us for completing their
    latest nuclear submarine.

    The whole Future Submarine program was a screw-up from when Abbot's Gov
    went with modifying a nuke sub to a diesel electric instead of putting
    it out to tender and buying already working subs.

    And of course the French didn't help themselves with the cost and time
    blowouts and their arrogance and digging their heels in against doing
    what they'd intitially agreed to do.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dechucka@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 28 09:54:40 2021
    XPost: alt.france, aus.politics

    snip

    The French did nothing to progress on Australia's deal other than
    charge money, with which they used against us for completing their
    latest nuclear submarine.

    The whole Future Submarine program was a screw-up from when Abbot's Gov
    went with modifying a nuke sub to a diesel electric instead of putting
    it out to tender and buying already working subs.

    Correct but France treat Australia NZ like fools so the French should
    never of been in the equation,

    It was amazing that the free enterprise, love competition LNP didn't
    even put this out to tender


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fran@21:1/5 to Dechucka on Tue Sep 28 12:33:56 2021
    XPost: aus.politics

    On 28/09/2021 9:54 am, Dechucka wrote:
    snip

    The French did nothing to progress on Australia's deal other than
    charge money, with which they used against us for completing their
    latest nuclear submarine.

    The whole Future Submarine program was a screw-up from when Abbot's Gov
    went with modifying a nuke sub to a diesel electric instead of putting
    it out to tender and buying already working subs.

    Correct but France treat Australia NZ like fools so the French should
    never of been in the equation,

    It was amazing that the free enterprise, love competition LNP didn't
    even put this out to tender

    But for that to happen, you have to have a design/specifications so that
    when the tender documents come in you can compare like to like. From
    what I've gleaned, I think it was just the defence types looking at what
    was our there ie, with German, Japanese and French subs.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fran@21:1/5 to Dechucka on Tue Sep 28 12:30:42 2021
    XPost: aus.politics

    On 28/09/2021 9:48 am, Dechucka wrote:
    On 28/09/2021 9:19 am, Fran wrote:
    On 28/09/2021 8:37 am, Dechucka wrote:
    On 28/09/2021 8:27 am, Petzl wrote:
    On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 15:57:39 +0100, Keith Willshaw
    <keithwillshaw@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 25/09/2021 20:00, Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
    <https://www.foxnews.com/politics/france-recalls-ambassadors-to-u-s-and-australia-in-response-to-aukus-nuclear-submarine-pact>

         https://is.gd/jZN33y

    So much for free trade and competition, the 'gaff' concerned was
    allowing the US and Britain to compete with France when it came to
    Australia ordering its first nuclear submarines.

    In terms of rating the general consensus that the top 3 SSN's are
    1) US Seawolf Class
    2) US Virginia Class

    The French Barracuda/Suffren class boats are considerably smaller and >>>>> less capable than the British and UK offerings but with pump jet
    propulsion should be quieter than the Chinese SSN's

    Cross postings trimmed.

    The French did nothing to progress on Australia's deal other than
    charge money, with which they used against us for completing their
    latest nuclear submarine.

    The whole Future Submarine program was a screw-up from when Abbot's
    Gov went with modifying a nuke sub to a diesel electric instead of
    putting it out to tender and buying already working subs.

    And of course the French didn't help themselves with the cost and time
    blowouts and their arrogance and digging their heels in against doing
    what they'd intitially agreed to do.

    To true but that has occurred with a lot of our defence purchases

    True - way back as far as the F111 purchase IIRC, but then not too many
    of them also included issues like the hacking incident and the refusal
    to sign contracts which should have smartened up the French footwork to
    sort out any disagreements and concerns.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fran@21:1/5 to Dechucka on Tue Sep 28 12:28:03 2021
    XPost: aus.politics

    On 28/09/2021 9:52 am, Dechucka wrote:
    On 28/09/2021 9:32 am, Petzl wrote:
    On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 09:19:52 +1000, Fran <f2r2a3@loonynutters.com>
    wrote:

    On 28/09/2021 8:37 am, Dechucka wrote:
    On 28/09/2021 8:27 am, Petzl wrote:
    On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 15:57:39 +0100, Keith Willshaw
    <keithwillshaw@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 25/09/2021 20:00, Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
    <https://www.foxnews.com/politics/france-recalls-ambassadors-to-u-s-and-australia-in-response-to-aukus-nuclear-submarine-pact>


          https://is.gd/jZN33y

    So much for free trade and competition, the 'gaff' concerned was
    allowing the US and Britain to compete with France when it came to >>>>>> Australia ordering its first nuclear submarines.

    In terms of rating the general consensus that the top 3 SSN's are
    1) US Seawolf Class
    2) US Virginia Class

    The French Barracuda/Suffren class boats are considerably smaller and >>>>>> less capable than the British and UK offerings but with pump jet
    propulsion should be quieter than the Chinese SSN's

    Cross postings trimmed.

    The French did nothing to progress on Australia's deal other than
    charge money, with which they used against us for completing their
    latest nuclear submarine.

    The whole Future Submarine program was a screw-up from when Abbot's Gov >>>> went with modifying a nuke sub to a diesel electric instead of putting >>>> it out to tender and buying already working subs.

    And of course the French didn't help themselves with the cost and time
    blowouts and their arrogance and digging their heels in against doing
    what they'd intitially agreed to do.

    The deal was a complete scam. France started making making (with $AU)
    Suffren class completing it in 2020, there is no doubt they were
    trying to stiff Australia with their clapped out expired subs refitted
    with diesel engines.

    Really? We weren't buying the actual subs from France they were being
    built in Adelaide

    Hmmm. Not so sure about the 'being built'. That's been just one of the tensions with France. I got a chuckle out of one of the press reports
    that said that 'building' in Adelaide with this sub was akin to building
    IKEA furniture at home.

    ScoMo got wind of this and nicley told the French to FOAD!

    Got wind of what? If what you say is true he should have known as
    Treasurer and acted ages ago on it as PM

    There have been rumblings for a long, long time about maybe going
    elsewhere and with very god reason. If the French want to continue to
    claim that it's all a surprise to them and Australia blindsided them
    with this decision, then they are really only admitting that they are
    too arrogant and too obtuse to have noticed all the messages.
    correspondence and complaints that Australia has sent their way.

    I'm sure you'll remember the kerfuffle that went on when the sub company
    was hacked. The dangers arising from that lack of security and why
    another country would have grave concerns about something like that
    happening, should have sounded real alarm bells. It just kept on a
    downward spiral with this deal.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Petzl@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 28 12:51:14 2021
    XPost: aus.politics

    On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 09:52:58 +1000, Dechucka <Dechucka1@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On 28/09/2021 9:32 am, Petzl wrote:
    On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 09:19:52 +1000, Fran <f2r2a3@loonynutters.com>
    wrote:

    On 28/09/2021 8:37 am, Dechucka wrote:
    On 28/09/2021 8:27 am, Petzl wrote:
    On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 15:57:39 +0100, Keith Willshaw
    <keithwillshaw@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 25/09/2021 20:00, Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
    <https://www.foxnews.com/politics/france-recalls-ambassadors-to-u-s-and-australia-in-response-to-aukus-nuclear-submarine-pact>

         https://is.gd/jZN33y

    So much for free trade and competition, the 'gaff' concerned was
    allowing the US and Britain to compete with France when it came to >>>>>> Australia ordering its first nuclear submarines.

    In terms of rating the general consensus that the top 3 SSN's are
    1) US Seawolf Class
    2) US Virginia Class

    The French Barracuda/Suffren class boats are considerably smaller and >>>>>> less capable than the British and UK offerings but with pump jet
    propulsion should be quieter than the Chinese SSN's

    Cross postings trimmed.

    The French did nothing to progress on Australia's deal other than
    charge money, with which they used against us for completing their
    latest nuclear submarine.

    The whole Future Submarine program was a screw-up from when Abbot's Gov >>>> went with modifying a nuke sub to a diesel electric instead of putting >>>> it out to tender and buying already working subs.

    And of course the French didn't help themselves with the cost and time
    blowouts and their arrogance and digging their heels in against doing
    what they'd intitially agreed to do.

    The deal was a complete scam. France started making making (with $AU)
    Suffren class completing it in 2020, there is no doubt they were
    trying to stiff Australia with their clapped out expired subs refitted
    with diesel engines.

    Really? We weren't buying the actual subs from France they were being
    built in Adelaide

    Nonsense the Submarines that France was to reject would perhaps of
    been refitted with diesel engines in Adelaide

    ScoMo got wind of this and nicley told the French to FOAD!

    Got wind of what? If what you say is true he should have known as
    Treasurer and acted ages ago on it as PM

    Sometimes it becomes "known" with age the Submarines France built with Australian dollars, but not was this type. Australia were going to pay
    big money for French rejects, refitted in Adelaide <https://www.navalnews.com/event-news/euronaval-2020/2020/10/frances-submarine-game-changer-the-new-suffren-class/>
    https://is.gd/ZWofVA
    Six new attack submarines will form the vanguard of the French Navy
    (Marine Nationale) for the coming decades. Developed (paid for by
    Australia) as the Barracuda program, the lead boat of the new class,
    Suffren, is expected to formally join the fleet next year. The new
    submarines will offer a massive capability leap over the current
    Rubis-class boats.

    --
    Petzl
    We know the Dumb3 are lying,
    they know they are lying,
    they know we know they are lying,
    we know they know we know they are lying,
    but they are still lying. Aleksandr Isayevich Solzhenitsyn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Petzl@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 28 12:54:15 2021
    XPost: aus.politics

    On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 12:28:03 +1000, Fran <f2r2a3@loonynutters.com>
    wrote:

    On 28/09/2021 9:52 am, Dechucka wrote:
    On 28/09/2021 9:32 am, Petzl wrote:
    On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 09:19:52 +1000, Fran <f2r2a3@loonynutters.com>
    wrote:

    On 28/09/2021 8:37 am, Dechucka wrote:
    On 28/09/2021 8:27 am, Petzl wrote:
    On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 15:57:39 +0100, Keith Willshaw
    <keithwillshaw@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 25/09/2021 20:00, Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
    <https://www.foxnews.com/politics/france-recalls-ambassadors-to-u-s-and-australia-in-response-to-aukus-nuclear-submarine-pact>


          https://is.gd/jZN33y

    So much for free trade and competition, the 'gaff' concerned was >>>>>>> allowing the US and Britain to compete with France when it came to >>>>>>> Australia ordering its first nuclear submarines.

    In terms of rating the general consensus that the top 3 SSN's are >>>>>>> 1) US Seawolf Class
    2) US Virginia Class

    The French Barracuda/Suffren class boats are considerably smaller and >>>>>>> less capable than the British and UK offerings but with pump jet >>>>>>> propulsion should be quieter than the Chinese SSN's

    Cross postings trimmed.

    The French did nothing to progress on Australia's deal other than
    charge money, with which they used against us for completing their >>>>>> latest nuclear submarine.

    The whole Future Submarine program was a screw-up from when Abbot's Gov >>>>> went with modifying a nuke sub to a diesel electric instead of putting >>>>> it out to tender and buying already working subs.

    And of course the French didn't help themselves with the cost and time >>>> blowouts and their arrogance and digging their heels in against doing
    what they'd intitially agreed to do.

    The deal was a complete scam. France started making making (with $AU)
    Suffren class completing it in 2020, there is no doubt they were
    trying to stiff Australia with their clapped out expired subs refitted
    with diesel engines.

    Really? We weren't buying the actual subs from France they were being
    built in Adelaide

    Hmmm. Not so sure about the 'being built'. That's been just one of the >tensions with France. I got a chuckle out of one of the press reports
    that said that 'building' in Adelaide with this sub was akin to building
    IKEA furniture at home.

    ScoMo got wind of this and nicley told the French to FOAD!

    Got wind of what? If what you say is true he should have known as
    Treasurer and acted ages ago on it as PM

    There have been rumblings for a long, long time about maybe going
    elsewhere and with very god reason. If the French want to continue to
    claim that it's all a surprise to them and Australia blindsided them
    with this decision, then they are really only admitting that they are
    too arrogant and too obtuse to have noticed all the messages.
    correspondence and complaints that Australia has sent their way.

    I'm sure you'll remember the kerfuffle that went on when the sub company
    was hacked. The dangers arising from that lack of security and why
    another country would have grave concerns about something like that >happening, should have sounded real alarm bells. It just kept on a
    downward spiral with this deal.

    Amazing but Fran has got it!!!!

    --
    Petzl
    As Winston Churchill once said;

    The Monarchy is important,
    not for the power it wields,
    but for the power it denies others”.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dechucka@21:1/5 to Petzl on Tue Sep 28 13:08:49 2021
    XPost: aus.politics

    On 28/09/2021 12:51 pm, Petzl wrote:
    On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 09:52:58 +1000, Dechucka <Dechucka1@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On 28/09/2021 9:32 am, Petzl wrote:
    On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 09:19:52 +1000, Fran <f2r2a3@loonynutters.com>
    wrote:

    On 28/09/2021 8:37 am, Dechucka wrote:
    On 28/09/2021 8:27 am, Petzl wrote:
    On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 15:57:39 +0100, Keith Willshaw
    <keithwillshaw@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 25/09/2021 20:00, Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
    <https://www.foxnews.com/politics/france-recalls-ambassadors-to-u-s-and-australia-in-response-to-aukus-nuclear-submarine-pact>

         https://is.gd/jZN33y

    So much for free trade and competition, the 'gaff' concerned was >>>>>>> allowing the US and Britain to compete with France when it came to >>>>>>> Australia ordering its first nuclear submarines.

    In terms of rating the general consensus that the top 3 SSN's are >>>>>>> 1) US Seawolf Class
    2) US Virginia Class

    The French Barracuda/Suffren class boats are considerably smaller and >>>>>>> less capable than the British and UK offerings but with pump jet >>>>>>> propulsion should be quieter than the Chinese SSN's

    Cross postings trimmed.

    The French did nothing to progress on Australia's deal other than
    charge money, with which they used against us for completing their >>>>>> latest nuclear submarine.

    The whole Future Submarine program was a screw-up from when Abbot's Gov >>>>> went with modifying a nuke sub to a diesel electric instead of putting >>>>> it out to tender and buying already working subs.

    And of course the French didn't help themselves with the cost and time >>>> blowouts and their arrogance and digging their heels in against doing
    what they'd intitially agreed to do.

    The deal was a complete scam. France started making making (with $AU)
    Suffren class completing it in 2020, there is no doubt they were
    trying to stiff Australia with their clapped out expired subs refitted
    with diesel engines.

    Really? We weren't buying the actual subs from France they were being
    built in Adelaide

    Nonsense the Submarines that France was to reject would perhaps of
    been refitted with diesel engines in Adelaide

    Wrong


    ScoMo got wind of this and nicley told the French to FOAD!

    Got wind of what? If what you say is true he should have known as
    Treasurer and acted ages ago on it as PM

    Sometimes it becomes "known" with age the Submarines France built with Australian dollars, but not was this type. Australia were going to pay
    big money for French rejects, refitted in Adelaide

    Wrong

    <https://www.navalnews.com/event-news/euronaval-2020/2020/10/frances-submarine-game-changer-the-new-suffren-class/>
    https://is.gd/ZWofVA
    Six new attack submarines will form the vanguard of the French Navy
    (Marine Nationale) for the coming decades. Developed (paid for by
    Australia) as the Barracuda program, the lead boat of the new class,
    Suffren, is expected to formally join the fleet next year. The new
    submarines will offer a massive capability leap over the current
    Rubis-class boats.



    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From News 2021@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 28 08:12:44 2021
    XPost: aus.politics

    On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 12:33:56 +1000, Fran scribed:

    On 28/09/2021 9:54 am, Dechucka wrote:
    snip

    The French did nothing to progress on Australia's deal other than
    charge money, with which they used against us for completing their
    latest nuclear submarine.

    The whole Future Submarine program was a screw-up from when Abbot's
    Gov went with modifying a nuke sub to a diesel electric instead of
    putting it out to tender and buying already working subs.

    Correct but France treat Australia NZ like fools so the French should
    never of been in the equation,

    It was amazing that the free enterprise, love competition LNP didn't
    even put this out to tender

    But for that to happen, you have to have a design/specifications so that
    when the tender documents come in you can compare like to like. From
    what I've gleaned, I think it was just the defence types looking at what
    was our there ie, with German, Japanese and French subs.

    Lol, reminds me of a combat system I helped a mob prepare a proposal for
    quite a few years ago. At that stage it was just pitch us ideas, then it
    became they were going with a Us package. Now I've recently read that
    they are ripping out an Israeli package because of security concern. Talk
    about lack of specification as they have no idea of what they want.

    I suspect the Aussie guys with their proposal were just too competenent.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fran@21:1/5 to Petzl on Tue Sep 28 17:35:04 2021
    XPost: aus.politics

    On 28/09/2021 12:54 pm, Petzl wrote:
    On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 12:28:03 +1000, Fran <f2r2a3@loonynutters.com>
    wrote:

    On 28/09/2021 9:52 am, Dechucka wrote:
    On 28/09/2021 9:32 am, Petzl wrote:
    On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 09:19:52 +1000, Fran <f2r2a3@loonynutters.com>
    wrote:

    On 28/09/2021 8:37 am, Dechucka wrote:
    On 28/09/2021 8:27 am, Petzl wrote:
    On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 15:57:39 +0100, Keith Willshaw
    <keithwillshaw@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 25/09/2021 20:00, Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
    <https://www.foxnews.com/politics/france-recalls-ambassadors-to-u-s-and-australia-in-response-to-aukus-nuclear-submarine-pact>


          https://is.gd/jZN33y

    So much for free trade and competition, the 'gaff' concerned was >>>>>>>> allowing the US and Britain to compete with France when it came to >>>>>>>> Australia ordering its first nuclear submarines.

    In terms of rating the general consensus that the top 3 SSN's are >>>>>>>> 1) US Seawolf Class
    2) US Virginia Class

    The French Barracuda/Suffren class boats are considerably smaller and >>>>>>>> less capable than the British and UK offerings but with pump jet >>>>>>>> propulsion should be quieter than the Chinese SSN's

    Cross postings trimmed.

    The French did nothing to progress on Australia's deal other than >>>>>>> charge money, with which they used against us for completing their >>>>>>> latest nuclear submarine.

    The whole Future Submarine program was a screw-up from when Abbot's Gov >>>>>> went with modifying a nuke sub to a diesel electric instead of putting >>>>>> it out to tender and buying already working subs.

    And of course the French didn't help themselves with the cost and time >>>>> blowouts and their arrogance and digging their heels in against doing >>>>> what they'd intitially agreed to do.

    The deal was a complete scam. France started making making (with $AU)
    Suffren class completing it in 2020, there is no doubt they were
    trying to stiff Australia with their clapped out expired subs refitted >>>> with diesel engines.

    Really? We weren't buying the actual subs from France they were being
    built in Adelaide

    Hmmm. Not so sure about the 'being built'. That's been just one of the
    tensions with France. I got a chuckle out of one of the press reports
    that said that 'building' in Adelaide with this sub was akin to building
    IKEA furniture at home.

    ScoMo got wind of this and nicley told the French to FOAD!

    Got wind of what? If what you say is true he should have known as
    Treasurer and acted ages ago on it as PM

    There have been rumblings for a long, long time about maybe going
    elsewhere and with very god reason. If the French want to continue to
    claim that it's all a surprise to them and Australia blindsided them
    with this decision, then they are really only admitting that they are
    too arrogant and too obtuse to have noticed all the messages.
    correspondence and complaints that Australia has sent their way.

    I'm sure you'll remember the kerfuffle that went on when the sub company
    was hacked. The dangers arising from that lack of security and why
    another country would have grave concerns about something like that
    happening, should have sounded real alarm bells. It just kept on a
    downward spiral with this deal.

    Amazing but Fran has got it!!!!

    What's even more amazing is that you figured that out. Did nursie help
    by explaining what I wrote for you?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)