• a- in [Times they are a-changin] and a- in [afoot, abroad, alit]

    From HenHanna@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jul 17 15:46:47 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.language.latin

    Do you have this a- (or something like it) in French or Latin ?


    ___________________________

    a- in [Times they are a-changing] and a- in [afoot, abroad, alit]
    ------ same or different etym.?


    The "a-" in "Times They Are A-Changin'" vs. "Afoot, Abroad, Alit"


    The "a-" in these phrases has different etymological origins.

    --- "Times They Are A-Changin'"

    The "a-" in this phrase is a verbal particle, a
    grammatical element that functions as a marker of the progressive
    aspect. It indicates that an action is ongoing or continuous. This usage
    is common in older English and dialects.



    --- "Afoot, Abroad, Alit"

    The "a-" in these words is a prefix, a morpheme added to
    the beginning of a word to change its meaning. In these cases, it is a
    remnant of the Old English preposition "on" or "in," indicating location
    or direction.


    So, while both use the letter "a-," they have distinct roles in the
    language.

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  • From Ed Cryer@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 18 08:24:39 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.language.latin

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  • From Dragonot@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jul 19 09:03:12 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.language.latin

    Il 18/07/2024 09:24, Ed Cryer ha scritto:
    Also not to be confused with alpha privative, which comes from Greek; an alpha in front of a word turns it negative (Latin uses "in").


    If I remember correctly, Greek α-privative and Latin "in-" derive from
    the Indo-European nasal sonant "n̥".
    Bepe

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  • From Ed Cryer@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jul 19 09:18:49 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.language.latin

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  • From Hibou@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jul 19 09:48:30 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.language.latin

    Le 17/07/2024 à 23:46, HenHanna a écrit :

    Do you have  this     a-    (or something like it) in French or Latin ?

    I don't think French has it. 'a-' can be used to mark direction (amener)
    or negation (anormal):

    <https://dictionnaire.lerobert.com/definition/a>

    (My usual Larousse is speaking not unto me this morning.)

    'e-' also comes to mind, marking a lack of something: écrémé (skimmed (milk)), écervelé (brainless), éborgner (to remove an eye)....

    ___________________________

    a- in [Times they are a-changing]  and  a- in [afoot, abroad, alit]
             ------ same or different etym.?

    The "a-" in "Times They Are A-Changin'" vs. "Afoot, Abroad, Alit"

    The "a-" in these phrases has different etymological origins.

    --- "Times They Are A-Changin'"

                    The "a-" in this phrase is a verbal particle, a
    grammatical element that functions as a marker of the progressive
    aspect. It indicates that an action is ongoing or continuous. This usage
    is common in older English and dialects.

    ---  "Afoot, Abroad, Alit"

                  The "a-" in these words is a prefix, a morpheme added to
    the beginning of a word to change its meaning. In these cases, it is a remnant of the Old English preposition "on" or "in," indicating location
    or direction.

    So, while both use the letter "a-," they have distinct roles in the
    language.

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  • From Hibou@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jul 19 10:52:48 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.language.latin

    Le 19/07/2024 à 09:48, Hibou a écrit :

    (My usual Larousse is speaking not unto me this morning.)

    Very likely because of this:

    'Planes grounded as worldwide IT outage hits airlines, banks and
    healthcare' -
    <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cnk4jdwp49et>

    Never allow automatic patching, say I (policy at Hibou Towers since
    forever); wait a bit and see.

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  • From HenHanna@21:1/5 to Hibou on Fri Jul 19 15:11:48 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.language.latin

    On 7/19/2024 1:48 AM, Hibou wrote:
    Le 17/07/2024 à 23:46, HenHanna a écrit :

    Do you have  this     a-    (or something like it) in French or Latin ?

    I don't think French has it. 'a-' can be used to mark direction (amener)
    or negation (anormal):

    <https://dictionnaire.lerobert.com/definition/a>

    (My usual Larousse is speaking not unto me this morning.)

    'e-' also comes to mind, marking a lack of something: écrémé (skimmed (milk)), écervelé (brainless), éborgner (to remove an eye)....

    ___________________________

    a- in [Times they are a-changing]  and  a- in [afoot, abroad, alit]
              ------ same or different etym.?

    The "a-" in "Times They Are A-Changin'" vs. "Afoot, Abroad, Alit"

    The "a-" in these phrases has different etymological origins.

    --- "Times They Are A-Changin'"

                     The "a-" in this phrase is a verbal particle, a
    grammatical element that functions as a marker of the progressive
    aspect. It indicates that an action is ongoing or continuous. This
    usage is common in older English and dialects.

    ---  "Afoot, Abroad, Alit"

                   The "a-" in these words is a prefix, a morpheme added
    to the beginning of a word to change its meaning. In these cases, it
    is a remnant of the Old English preposition "on" or "in," indicating
    location or direction.

    So, while both use the letter "a-," they have distinct roles in the
    language.




    'e-' also comes to mind, marking a lack of something: écrémé (skimmed (milk)), écervelé (brainless), éborgner (to remove an eye)....

    eviscerate (an Engineer missing a Thumb)

    emasculate



    'a-' can be used to mark direction (amener)

    amenable.



    Yes, the "a" in the French verb "amener" does play a role in indicating direction. Here's the breakdown:

    Amener itself means "to bring someone or something to a specific location."

    The "a" emphasizes the destination, the place where the person or thing
    is being brought.


    In simpler terms, it highlights the "to" part of "bring someone to" a place.

    Here's an example:

    J'amène mon fils à l'école. (I take my son to school)
    Here, "école" (school) is the destination, and "amène" with its "a" emphasizes that the son is being brought "to" school.

    For comparison, there's another verb "emmener" that also means "to bring someone somewhere." However, "emmener" suggests that you'll be going to
    the place with the person and staying there too.

    ____________________

    Old French "amener" is further broken down into two parts:

    "a-" which is a prefix meaning "to" (derived from Latin "ad" and
    ultimately Proto-Indo-European "hed" meaning "at")

    "mener" which is a verb meaning "to lead"


    __________________________


    Here are some examples of verbs in different languages with a- prefixes
    that function similarly to "amener" (to bring someone/something to a
    location):

    French:

    Approcher (a- + procher) - To bring someone/something closer (emphasizes bringing near)

    Apporter (a- + porter) - To bring something to someone (emphasizes
    bringing something specifically)
    English:

    Arrive (a- + rive) - To reach a destination (emphasizes reaching a final
    point)

    Approach (a- + proach) - To come closer to someone/something (similar to
    French "approcher")



    German:

    Ankommen (an- + kommen) - To arrive (emphasizes reaching a destination,
    similar to English "arrive")

    Abholen (ab- + holen) - To pick someone/something up (emphasizes taking someone/something away from a location)


    Italian: -- Affrontare (a- + fronte) - To confront someone (emphasizes
    facing someone)

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  • From Tilde@21:1/5 to HenHanna on Tue Jul 23 23:12:40 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.language.latin

    HenHanna wrote:

    Do you have  this     a-    (or something like it) in French or Latin ?
    ___________________________

    a- in [Times they are a-changing]  and  a- in [afoot, abroad, alit]
             ------ same or different etym.?

    The "a-" in "Times They Are A-Changin'" vs. "Afoot, Abroad, Alit"


    The "a-" in these phrases has different etymological origins.

    --- "Times They Are A-Changin'"

                    The "a-" in this phrase is a verbal particle, a
    grammatical element that functions as a marker of the progressive
    aspect. It indicates that an action is ongoing or continuous. This usage
    is common in older English and dialects.

    ---  "Afoot, Abroad, Alit"

                  The "a-" in these words is a prefix, a morpheme added to
    the beginning of a word to change its meaning. In these cases, it is a remnant of the Old English preposition "on" or "in," indicating location
    or direction.

    So, while both use the letter "a-," they have distinct roles in the
    language.

    I presume you are referring to the Bob Dylan song
    "The Times they are a-changin'" ? If so

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Times_They_Are_a-Changin%27_(song)

    "The a- in the song title is an archaic
    intensifying prefix, as in the British songs
    "A-Hunting We Will Go" and "Here We Come
    a-Wassailing", from the 18th and 19th century."

    Hmmm. I'll take their word for it. Lots of google
    hits for "intensifying prefix". Hadn't looked into
    this sort of thing before. There's the words you
    mentioned, like "abroad", but I'd sorta mostly
    encountered it in lyrics like the Dylan song. It
    always seemed like a bridging sound (don't know the
    musical term for that). (notice, "sorta", with -a
    suffix)

    Here's another example, not necessarily a
    good one, of a song by the old country and
    western satirists Homer and Jethro. This is
    a satire of the song "Sink the Bismarck" which
    they called "We Didn't Sink the Bismarck"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L0jlnMkN_4

    with lyrics with the a-

    https://lyricstranslate.com/en/homer-and-jethro-we-didn%E2%80%99t-sink-bismarck-lyrics.html

    "Chasin' after women while our ship was overhauled,
    A-livin' it up on grapefruit juice and sickbay alcohol."

    "Tony, our Italian cook, was a-settin' on the deck,
    And we were a-peelin' 'taters. We must 'a' peeled a peck."

    This all seems like two different things. The lyrics
    usage don't seem to me to imply direction or location.

    Hah - here's what I'm looking for

    https://ygdp.yale.edu/phenomena/a-prefixing

    "He just kep' a-beggin' and a-cryin' and
    a-wantin' to go out."

    "A-prefixing is a phenomenon where a prefix,
    a-, attaches to a verbal form with the
    suffix -ing..."

    Definitely what I'm thinking of. I'll leave the Homer
    and Jethro part in ;)

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  • From Christian Weisgerber@21:1/5 to Tilde on Wed Jul 24 12:02:34 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.language.latin

    On 2024-07-24, Tilde <invalide@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    I presume you are referring to the Bob Dylan song
    "The Times they are a-changin'" ? If so

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Times_They_Are_a-Changin%27_(song)

    "The a- in the song title is an archaic
    intensifying prefix, as in the British songs
    "A-Hunting We Will Go" and "Here We Come
    a-Wassailing", from the 18th and 19th century."

    As far as I know, it's a participle prefix. It goes back to Old
    English ge- /je/, which could be used to give a past participle a
    perfective meaning. This was generalized into a prefix for past
    participles and even present participles, but remained dialectal.
    For instance, use of a- with present particles is a feature of
    Appalachian English.

    Compare ge- in German. In Old High German this again could be used
    to give a past participle a perfective meaning, but eventually it
    was simply generalized to all past participles if not blocked by
    another prefix.

    --
    Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

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  • From guido wugi@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jul 24 18:20:03 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.language.latin

    Op 24-7-2024 om 14:02 schreef Christian Weisgerber:
    On 2024-07-24, Tilde <invalide@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    I presume you are referring to the Bob Dylan song
    "The Times they are a-changin'" ? If so

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Times_They_Are_a-Changin%27_(song)

    "The a- in the song title is an archaic
    intensifying prefix, as in the British songs
    "A-Hunting We Will Go" and "Here We Come
    a-Wassailing", from the 18th and 19th century."
    As far as I know, it's a participle prefix. It goes back to Old
    English ge- /je/, which could be used to give a past participle a
    perfective meaning. This was generalized into a prefix for past
    participles and even present participles, but remained dialectal.
    For instance, use of a- with present particles is a feature of
    Appalachian English.

    Compare ge- in German. In Old High German this again could be used
    to give a past participle a perfective meaning, but eventually it
    was simply generalized to all past participles if not blocked by
    another prefix.

    According to etymonline it stems from "on": https://www.etymonline.com/word/A#etymonline_v_2 https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=a-

    which, if correct, makes it similar to the Dutch 'progressive' form
    "aan het jagen (zijn)", be 'a-hunting'.

    --
    guido wugi

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