• Re: PTD on Baring-Gould's Annotated Sherlock Holmes

    From Peter Moylan@21:1/5 to Aidan Kehoe on Sat Apr 13 22:30:15 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.english.usage

    [rec.puzzles deleted, since it seems to be irrelevant to the topic. But alt.english.usage added, on the grounds that some of the people there
    remember the good old days.]

    On 13/04/24 18:34, Aidan Kehoe wrote:
    Ar an dara lá déag de mí Aibreán, scríobh HenHanna:

    I'm still struggling with the Irish number system (second day ten =
    12th), but I guess I'll get used to it eventually.

    Was PTD more of a Presence in Sci.Lang or in AUE?

    I was never active in alt.usage.english so I can’t comment.

    Was he a BIG FISH in other groups?

    When did he come to Usenet?

    Google Group suggests about 1997.

    He doesn’t appear to be active anymore, not a great use of your time
    to obsess about him.

    I'm always a little nervous of responding to a HenHanna question, but as
    the oldest living member of AUE I'd better give an answer.

    PTD originally was an inhabitant of sci.lang, but he appeared in AUE via crossposts complaining about crossposts from AUE to sci.lang. Over time
    he appeared more and more often in AUE, possibly because sci.lang seemed
    to be in its death throes. (Not his fault, I gather.) He was a bit of a
    misfit in AUE because he got into so many disputes, usually because of
    an inability to admit when he was wrong.

    Most recently, he disappeared from all newsgroups, possibly because he
    was one of the many who were unable to adapt to the disappearance of
    Google Groups from Usenet. But this is not certain, because he
    disappeared some time before Google pulled the plug.

    The BIG FISH comment reminds me of a Master's thesis, I forget where,
    that analysed roles of people in newsgroups. It caused great amusement
    here (AUE) because it so badly miscategorised the roles of the regulars. In particular, it concluded that PTD was the most-respected of the AUE
    regulars, because of the many responses to him. It's true that he did
    start the most arguments.

    --
    Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
    Newcastle, NSW

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  • From Anton Shepelev@21:1/5 to All on Sat Apr 13 16:52:16 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.english.usage

    Peter Moylan about PTD:

    Most recently, he disappeared from all newsgroups,
    possibly because he was one of the many who were unable to
    adapt to the disappearance of Google Groups from Usenet.

    Anybody tried to e-mail those missing in action with a
    suggestion to access Usenet via <https://news.novabbs.org/>
    and perhaps instructions for setting up a newsreader with a
    list of free Usenet servers (<https://sybershock.com/#usenet>)?
    I believe this is a grammatical colloquial question, with
    the initial `Have' omitted, is it not?

    The BIG FISH comment reminds me of a Master's thesis, I
    forget where, that analysed roles of people in newsgroups.
    It caused great amusement here (AUE) because it so badly
    miscategorised the roles of the regulars. In particular,
    it concluded that PTD was the most-respected of the AUE
    regulars, because of the many responses to him. It's true
    that he did start the most arguments.

    PTD has proven that one need neither respect nor authority
    to keep a lively discussion. Notoriety with occasional
    nastiness is just as good, if not better.

    For me, the most respected regular of all time was Don
    Phillipson, supposedly known later as Don P. When once he
    replied to a post of mine persoanlly via e-mail I felt as if
    a god has descended from a throne. I love you, Don.

    --
    () ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail
    /\ www.asciiribbon.org -- against proprietary attachments

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  • From Anton Shepelev@21:1/5 to All on Sat Apr 13 16:55:40 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.english.usage

    I wrote:

    When once he replied to a post of mine persoanlly via
    e-mail I felt as if a god has descended from a throne.

    `had'.

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  • From Rich Ulrich@21:1/5 to jerryfriedman on Sat Apr 13 16:45:28 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.english.usage

    On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 15:52:57 +0000, jerry.friedman99@gmail.com
    (jerryfriedman) wrote:

    Peter Moylan wrote:


    PTD originally was an inhabitant of sci.lang, but he appeared in AUE via
    crossposts complaining about crossposts from AUE to sci.lang. Over time
    he appeared more and more often in AUE, possibly because sci.lang seemed
    to be in its death throes. (Not his fault, I gather.) He was a bit of a
    misfit in AUE because he got into so many disputes, usually because of
    an inability to admit when he was wrong.

    I would say, "inability to recognize when he was wrong."


    And his astonishing ability to be wrong or misleading so often on so
    many topics. Eventually a lot of people, including me, stopped
    correcting him.

    On the other hand, I ignored the language threads and many
    others. There were other things of occasional interest.

    Eventually, he and I agreed on a number of political observations,
    and I was pleased with his recollection of political trivia relevant
    to sins of Trump et al. He had-read a lot, with good recall.

    When I mentioned having read in Wiki, spring of 2016 (a few years
    earlier), that Trump as a 13-year-old had been sent to his
    military academy/ boarding school (a 1959 alternative to Juvenile
    Detention) after being deemed an incorrigible offender, PTD said
    he had never read that. I accepted his authority: either I had read
    a short-lived libel, or this bit of history has been well-scrubbed.



    --
    Rich Ulrich

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  • From Anton Shepelev@21:1/5 to All on Sun Apr 14 01:24:36 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.english.usage

    I wrote:

    Anybody tried to e-mail those missing in action with a
    suggestion to access Usenet via
    <https://news.novabbs.org/>

    The Nova BBS administrator warns me that the .org site may
    be soon closed, and the correct one is <www.novabbs.com>.

    --
    () ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail
    /\ www.asciiribbon.org -- against proprietary attachments

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  • From Peter Moylan@21:1/5 to Anton Shepelev on Sun Apr 14 10:40:17 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.english.usage

    On 13/04/24 23:52, Anton Shepelev wrote:
    Peter Moylan about PTD:

    Most recently, he disappeared from all newsgroups, possibly because
    he was one of the many who were unable to adapt to the
    disappearance of Google Groups from Usenet.

    Anybody tried to e-mail those missing in action with a suggestion to
    access Usenet via <https://news.novabbs.org/> and perhaps
    instructions for setting up a newsreader with a list of free Usenet
    servers (<https://sybershock.com/#usenet>)?

    Before the transition there were plenty of suggestions, at least in AUE,
    for news servers and newsreader software, and several people offered to
    help. It seemed, though, that many of the Google Groups users viewed
    those suggestions as being in the "too hard" category, and they didn't
    try. Some did transition, of course, but not a great many.

    --
    Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
    Newcastle, NSW

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  • From Peter Moylan@21:1/5 to Rich Ulrich on Sun Apr 14 11:02:29 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.english.usage

    On 14/04/24 06:45, Rich Ulrich wrote:

    When I mentioned having read in Wiki, spring of 2016 (a few years
    earlier), that Trump as a 13-year-old had been sent to his military
    academy/ boarding school (a 1959 alternative to Juvenile Detention)
    after being deemed an incorrigible offender, PTD said he had never
    read that. I accepted his authority: either I had read a short-lived
    libel, or this bit of history has been well-scrubbed.

    That part is well documented, including on Wikipedia, and Trump himself
    has said that he was a high achiever (he would say that, wouldn't he?)
    at the military academy. The part that he disputes is the reason for his
    being sent there. A book written by his niece says that his family
    decided to send him there because he was a bully and an uncontrollable adolescent who didn't fit into a normal school.

    It's not surprising that PTD didn't know that at the time, because it
    took some time for the story to come out.

    --
    Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
    Newcastle, NSW

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  • From Rich Ulrich@21:1/5 to peter@pmoylan.org.invalid on Sat Apr 13 22:58:36 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.english.usage

    On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 11:02:29 +1000, Peter Moylan
    <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

    On 14/04/24 06:45, Rich Ulrich wrote:

    When I mentioned having read in Wiki, spring of 2016 (a few years
    earlier), that Trump as a 13-year-old had been sent to his military
    academy/ boarding school (a 1959 alternative to Juvenile Detention)
    after being deemed an incorrigible offender, PTD said he had never
    read that. I accepted his authority: either I had read a short-lived
    libel, or this bit of history has been well-scrubbed.

    That part is well documented, including on Wikipedia, and Trump himself
    has said that he was a high achiever (he would say that, wouldn't he?)
    at the military academy. The part that he disputes is the reason for his >being sent there. A book written by his niece says that his family
    decided to send him there because he was a bully and an uncontrollable >adolescent who didn't fit into a normal school.

    It's not surprising that PTD didn't know that at the time, because it
    took some time for the story to come out.

    I see that Mary Trump's book was out in 2020. Your explanation
    is consistent with PDT usually knowing the trivia but missing this.

    That leaves unanswered the question of what served as the
    source of the 2016 Wiki article. Much detail is in the article that
    Tony cites, which is from January, 2016.

    That one also does not mention bully and uncontrollable or
    mention the Juvie alternative. "Juvie" is the libel that may have
    been scrubbed.

    --
    Rich Ulrich

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  • From Rich Ulrich@21:1/5 to tonycooper214@gmail.com on Sat Apr 13 23:35:14 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.english.usage

    On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 17:35:44 -0400, Tony Cooper
    <tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 16:45:28 -0400, Rich Ulrich
    <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> wrote:

    On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 15:52:57 +0000, jerry.friedman99@gmail.com >>(jerryfriedman) wrote:

    Peter Moylan wrote:


    PTD originally was an inhabitant of sci.lang, but he appeared in AUE via >>>> crossposts complaining about crossposts from AUE to sci.lang. Over time >>>> he appeared more and more often in AUE, possibly because sci.lang seemed >>>> to be in its death throes. (Not his fault, I gather.) He was a bit of a >>>> misfit in AUE because he got into so many disputes, usually because of >>>> an inability to admit when he was wrong.

    I would say, "inability to recognize when he was wrong."


    And his astonishing ability to be wrong or misleading so often on so
    many topics. Eventually a lot of people, including me, stopped >>>correcting him.

    On the other hand, I ignored the language threads and many
    others. There were other things of occasional interest.

    Eventually, he and I agreed on a number of political observations,
    and I was pleased with his recollection of political trivia relevant
    to sins of Trump et al. He had-read a lot, with good recall.

    When I mentioned having read in Wiki, spring of 2016 (a few years
    earlier), that Trump as a 13-year-old had been sent to his
    military academy/ boarding school (a 1959 alternative to Juvenile >>Detention) after being deemed an incorrigible offender, PTD said
    he had never read that. I accepted his authority: either I had read
    a short-lived libel, or this bit of history has been well-scrubbed.

    Trump did attend New York Military Academy. When Trump was 13, his
    father sent him there, though. When someone is sent to Juvenile
    Detention, it is at a court order. In DJT's case, it was a family
    decision, not by court order. What prompted the family decision,
    though, is not stated.



    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/decades-later-disagreement-over-young-trumps-military-academy-post/2016/01/09/907a67b2-b3e0-11e5-a842-0feb51d1d124_story.html


    That was published in 2016, and could have been the source
    of most of what I read a few months later.

    Trump was sent to the Academy in 1959. My understanding of
    the 1960s was that courts let charges drop when suitable
    alternative actions were taken. So a friend of a friend in 1969
    joined the Coast Guard and he was not prosecuted for dealing
    pot. (in Austin, Texas, where marijuana sentences were LONG).
    (It was a few years after that when the U.S. military became a
    bit negative about that sort of referral.)

    Another acquaintance who sold a hit of acid to a federal agent
    cut off his long hair and got a job with the state highway
    department; and charges were dropped.

    It was earlier, like 1965, when a 13-year-old fellow in my home
    town was threatened with the choice of juvie or military academy --
    that could have been a threat generated by his family rather than
    a court.

    What I read in 2016-Wiki did mention juvie. I THINK it was
    mentioned as a court-based threat, rather than family threat
    used for persuasion. My understanding of the time is that a
    court would have happily -- and wisely -- sent a rich kid to a
    strict boarding school rather than to Juvie. IIRC, his hitting
    a teacher was the immediate cause of the decision. Previous
    bullying only had him hitting students.

    --
    Rich Ulrich

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