• Confirming Surha Tal (Ballia, India) As Asteroid Impact Crater

    From Travis McGee@21:1/5 to Abhiriksh Patil on Sun Jan 1 04:36:32 2017
    On 1/1/2017 4:18 AM, Abhiriksh Patil wrote:
    The 7.5 Km wide Surha Tal lake is located at Lat 25.836050°, Long 84.174503° in Ballia district of Uttar Pradesh (India). It is also spelled as Suraha Tal or Surah Tal.

    In Google Earth satellite images from 1984 to 2016, the area around the water body in Surha Tal clearly looks circular. There are legends that it was dug by kings in ancient time, but I strongly suspect that it is asteroid impact crater. In fact after
    reading ancient Indian history I "know" that it is asteroid impact crater, but I just don't know how to prove it scientifically. It looks that no geologist has ever bothered to look at that lake.

    Any ideas?

    Thanks !


    Check out https://www.amazon.com/Rocks-Space-Meteorites-Meteorite-Astronomy/dp/0878423737.
    It has a lot of info on what might indicate an impact crater.

    My impression is that someone would have to do some field geology in the
    area, to look for minerals such as shocked quartz and structures such as
    shock cones.

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  • From Paul in Houston TX@21:1/5 to Abhiriksh Patil on Sun Jan 1 10:52:31 2017
    Abhiriksh Patil wrote:
    The 7.5 Km wide Surha Tal lake is located at Lat 25.836050°, Long 84.174503° in Ballia
    district of Uttar Pradesh (India). It is also spelled as Suraha Tal or Surah Tal.

    In Google Earth satellite images from 1984 to 2016, the area around the water body in
    Surha Tal clearly looks circular. There are legends that it was dug by kings in ancient
    time, but I strongly suspect that it is asteroid impact crater. In fact after reading
    ancient Indian history I "know" that it is asteroid impact crater, but I just don't
    know how to prove it scientifically. It looks that no geologist has ever bothered to
    look at that lake.

    Any ideas?

    Thanks !

    It looks to me like a cut-off meander of the Ganga. It is on the flood plain between two major rivers. There are other similar features nearby.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From The New Other Guy@21:1/5 to abhiriksh@gmail.com on Sun Jan 1 17:58:17 2017
    On Sun, 1 Jan 2017 01:18:02 -0800 (PST), Abhiriksh Patil
    <abhiriksh@gmail.com> wrote:

    The 7.5 Km wide Surha Tal lake is located at Lat 25.836050, Long 84.174503 in Ballia district of Uttar Pradesh (India). It is also spelled as Suraha Tal or Surah Tal.

    In Google Earth satellite images from 1984 to 2016, the area around the water body in Surha Tal clearly looks circular. There are legends that it was dug by kings in ancient time, but I strongly suspect that it is asteroid impact crater. In fact after
    reading ancient Indian history I "know" that it is asteroid impact crater, but I just don't know how to prove it scientifically. It looks that no geologist has ever bothered to look at that lake.

    Any ideas?

    The main body of the lake is less than 10 feet deep,
    and there is no discernable debris ring anywhere near
    it, so I'd have to say no, unless you have something
    more, like magnetometer surveys and such.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Abhiriksh Patil@21:1/5 to The New Other Guy on Tue Jan 3 01:57:54 2017
    On Monday, January 2, 2017 at 7:28:21 AM UTC+5:30, The New Other Guy wrote:
    On Sun, 1 Jan 2017 01:18:02 -0800 (PST), Abhiriksh Patil <abhiriksh@gmail.com> wrote:

    The 7.5 Km wide Surha Tal lake is located at Lat 25.836050°, Long 84.174503° in Ballia district of Uttar Pradesh (India). It is also spelled as Suraha Tal or Surah Tal.

    In Google Earth satellite images from 1984 to 2016, the area around the water body in Surha Tal clearly looks circular. There are legends that it was dug by kings in ancient time, but I strongly suspect that it is asteroid impact crater. In fact after
    reading ancient Indian history I "know" that it is asteroid impact crater, but I just don't know how to prove it scientifically. It looks that no geologist has ever bothered to look at that lake.

    Any ideas?

    The main body of the lake is less than 10 feet deep,
    and there is no discernable debris ring anywhere near
    it, so I'd have to say no, unless you have something
    more, like magnetometer surveys and such.

    Just 10 feet deep? I don't know how you found out this. Well, that impact crater lies in flood plain area of Ganga and Ghagra, two big rivers. So I guess, that impact crater was flooded many times and hence those rings are washed away long time ago. And
    may be half of those debris in ring are flooded back in the crater. Some are washed away with Ganga.

    One more thing. The area around that Surha Tal has dozens of archaeological sites ranging from 1500 BC-2000 BC. One such site "Pakka Kot" is more than 5000 year old. ( http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/kanpur/Major-trade-centre-existed-in-Ballia/
    articleshow/16405268.cms ).

    Well, and have I mentioned that "hum' sound produced by that meteorite impact is source of "AUM" mantra in Hinduism? Those Bramhins in that area heard that "hum, hmm' sound. They saw that devastation and deaths of thousands of people. So this "hum" sound
    became divine for them and everything in Vedas start with this "AUM or OM" mantra.

    There is much more with that "Surha Tal". I am still trying to make sense of Ramayana, Mahabharata and Buddhacarita. Someday I will write in details, but ultimately I will have to prove that it is asteroid impact crater.

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  • From Abhiriksh Patil@21:1/5 to Paul in Houston TX on Tue Jan 3 01:32:17 2017
    On Sunday, January 1, 2017 at 10:22:35 PM UTC+5:30, Paul in Houston TX wrote:
    Abhiriksh Patil wrote:
    The 7.5 Km wide Surha Tal lake is located at Lat 25.836050°, Long 84.174503° in Ballia
    district of Uttar Pradesh (India). It is also spelled as Suraha Tal or Surah Tal.

    In Google Earth satellite images from 1984 to 2016, the area around the water body in
    Surha Tal clearly looks circular. There are legends that it was dug by kings in ancient
    time, but I strongly suspect that it is asteroid impact crater. In fact after reading
    ancient Indian history I "know" that it is asteroid impact crater, but I just don't
    know how to prove it scientifically. It looks that no geologist has ever bothered to
    look at that lake.

    Any ideas?

    Thanks !

    It looks to me like a cut-off meander of the Ganga. It is on the flood plain between two major rivers. There are other similar features nearby.

    Yes, there are horse-shoe shaped lakes nearby and they are former course Ghagra river. Course of these two rivers near their confluence is highly irratic and it is well documented in "Ballia district gaztteer" by British in 1907. Even today you can
    visibly notice flood plain area of these two rivers and extinct course of some small streams.

    But the area around water body in this Surha lake looks circular. It doesn't look horse-shoe shaped or zig-zag shaped former course of Ganga. Natural lakes doesn't make circular shapes. The visible difference in color of soil in this circular shaped area
    and surrounding area makes me think that geology of this circle is impacted by something.

    Now if I start talking about Ramayana, Mahabharata etc, then it will be too long. But I will try to be short.

    In Ramayana, in Sarga 40 of Bala-Kanda ( http://www.valmikiramayan.net/utf8/baala/sarga40/bala_5F40_frame.htmit ) it is mentioned that Sage Kapila "turned 60,000 sons of King Sagara into ashes by producing hum sound".

    Here is translation of 2 shlokas from that sarga...

    ------------
    "On hearing their words, oh, Rama, the descendant of Raghu, then sage Kapila is beset with high wrath, and he boomed a 'hum' sound at them. [1-40-29b, 30a]

    "Oh, Rama of Kakutstha, then that great-souled sage Kapila, rather Vishnu with unimaginable power, has rendered all of those sons of Sagara as heaps of ashes by virtue of his 'hum' sound." Thus Sage Vishvamitra is narrating the legend of Sagara to Rama
    and others.
    ----------------------

    As you can read in other shlokas, they were digging earth to "find horse". Same story is mentioned in Mahabharata also ( http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m03/m03107.htm ).

    ------------
    "And with spades and pickaxes they went on digging the sea, making the utmost efforts. And that same abode of Varuna (namely the ocean), being thus, excavated by the united sons of Sagara and rent and cut on all sides round".
    -----------

    Those words "cut on all sides round" attracted my attention. Now they don't need to dig lake when two mighty rivers are nearby. Also at other places in Ramayana and Mahabharata they frequently mention meteorite falling, earth shaking, dust flying up in
    the air, then "blood rain" etc. This description can be given only by people who has seen the asteroid impact. I guess, this meteorite struck around 1500 BC, then this legend was orally carried forward for many centuries and by the time they wrote
    Ramayana-Mahabharata in around 600 BC, it had become "Sage Kapila killed people".

    There is another thing. "Kapila" means "reddish" and "Vastu" means "object" or "becoming light". Kapilavastu place is famous place in ancient texts.

    I guess, I will keep writing endlessly. So I stop.

    But this Surha Tal really needs attention of Geologists.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Abhiriksh Patil@21:1/5 to Travis McGee on Tue Jan 3 02:59:16 2017
    On Sunday, January 1, 2017 at 3:06:33 PM UTC+5:30, Travis McGee wrote:
    On 1/1/2017 4:18 AM, Abhiriksh Patil wrote:
    The 7.5 Km wide Surha Tal lake is located at Lat 25.836050°, Long 84.174503° in Ballia district of Uttar Pradesh (India). It is also spelled as Suraha Tal or Surah Tal.

    In Google Earth satellite images from 1984 to 2016, the area around the water body in Surha Tal clearly looks circular. There are legends that it was dug by kings in ancient time, but I strongly suspect that it is asteroid impact crater. In fact
    after reading ancient Indian history I "know" that it is asteroid impact crater, but I just don't know how to prove it scientifically. It looks that no geologist has ever bothered to look at that lake.

    Any ideas?

    Thanks !


    Check out https://www.amazon.com/Rocks-Space-Meteorites-Meteorite-Astronomy/dp/0878423737.
    It has a lot of info on what might indicate an impact crater.

    My impression is that someone would have to do some field geology in the area, to look for minerals such as shocked quartz and structures such as shock cones.

    Right. I will have to convince geologists to carry out tests around that Surha Lake. For that I will have to write detailed report supported by ancient texts and satellite imagery. I hope I will be able to do that.

    If some geologist immediately wants to jump in this Surha Tal, he will either get biggest finding in geology and history or he will lose some money and time.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Abhiriksh Patil@21:1/5 to Abhiriksh Patil on Tue Jan 3 03:33:55 2017
    On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 at 3:02:19 PM UTC+5:30, Abhiriksh Patil wrote:
    On Sunday, January 1, 2017 at 10:22:35 PM UTC+5:30, Paul in Houston TX wrote:
    Abhiriksh Patil wrote:
    The 7.5 Km wide Surha Tal lake is located at Lat 25.836050°, Long 84.174503° in Ballia
    district of Uttar Pradesh (India). It is also spelled as Suraha Tal or Surah Tal.

    In Google Earth satellite images from 1984 to 2016, the area around the water body in
    Surha Tal clearly looks circular. There are legends that it was dug by kings in ancient
    time, but I strongly suspect that it is asteroid impact crater. In fact after reading
    ancient Indian history I "know" that it is asteroid impact crater, but I just don't
    know how to prove it scientifically. It looks that no geologist has ever bothered to
    look at that lake.

    Any ideas?

    Thanks !

    It looks to me like a cut-off meander of the Ganga. It is on the flood plain
    between two major rivers. There are other similar features nearby.

    Yes, there are horse-shoe shaped lakes nearby and they are former course Ghagra river. Course of these two rivers near their confluence is highly irratic and it is well documented in "Ballia district gaztteer" by British in 1907. Even today you can
    visibly notice flood plain area of these two rivers and extinct course of some small streams.

    But the area around water body in this Surha lake looks circular. It doesn't look horse-shoe shaped or zig-zag shaped former course of Ganga. Natural lakes doesn't make circular shapes. The visible difference in color of soil in this circular shaped
    area and surrounding area makes me think that geology of this circle is impacted by something.

    Now if I start talking about Ramayana, Mahabharata etc, then it will be too long. But I will try to be short.

    In Ramayana, in Sarga 40 of Bala-Kanda ( http://www.valmikiramayan.net/utf8/baala/sarga40/bala_5F40_frame.htmit ) it is mentioned that Sage Kapila "turned 60,000 sons of King Sagara into ashes by producing hum sound".

    Here is translation of 2 shlokas from that sarga...

    ------------
    "On hearing their words, oh, Rama, the descendant of Raghu, then sage Kapila is beset with high wrath, and he boomed a 'hum' sound at them. [1-40-29b, 30a]

    "Oh, Rama of Kakutstha, then that great-souled sage Kapila, rather Vishnu with unimaginable power, has rendered all of those sons of Sagara as heaps of ashes by virtue of his 'hum' sound." Thus Sage Vishvamitra is narrating the legend of Sagara to Rama
    and others.
    ----------------------

    As you can read in other shlokas, they were digging earth to "find horse". Same story is mentioned in Mahabharata also ( http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m03/m03107.htm ).

    ------------
    "And with spades and pickaxes they went on digging the sea, making the utmost efforts. And that same abode of Varuna (namely the ocean), being thus, excavated by the united sons of Sagara and rent and cut on all sides round".
    -----------

    Those words "cut on all sides round" attracted my attention. Now they don't need to dig lake when two mighty rivers are nearby. Also at other places in Ramayana and Mahabharata they frequently mention meteorite falling, earth shaking, dust flying up in
    the air, then "blood rain" etc. This description can be given only by people who has seen the asteroid impact. I guess, this meteorite struck around 1500 BC, then this legend was orally carried forward for many centuries and by the time they wrote
    Ramayana-Mahabharata in around 600 BC, it had become "Sage Kapila killed people".

    There is another thing. "Kapila" means "reddish" and "Vastu" means "object" or "becoming light". Kapilavastu place is famous place in ancient texts.

    I guess, I will keep writing endlessly. So I stop.

    But this Surha Tal really needs attention of Geologists.

    One more thing. King Bhagiratha was descendant of King Sagara. Ganga river and this Surha Tal are at same level. He dug a channel between Ganga and this Surha Tal impact crater and diverted flow of Ganga in this crater to perform "water oblation" to dead
    people in this crater. (There is "katehar Nala" between this Surha Tal and Ganga. 1907 British gazetteer mentions that water flows to and fro between Ganga and this Surha Tal.) This episode is narrated in Ramayana and Mahabharata as "King Bhagiratha
    brought Ganga on Earth through his ascesis".

    Here is some text quoted from http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m03/m03109.htm

    ---------
    "Thus assuming very many different aspects, when she fell from the sky, and reached the surface of the earth, she said to Bhagiratha, 'O great king! show me the path that I shall have to take. O lord of the earth! for thy sake have I descended to the
    earth.' Having heard these words, king Bhagiratha directed his course towards the spot where lay those bodies of mighty Sagara's sons, in order that, O most praiseworthy of men, the holy water might flood (the same). Having achieved the task of
    sustaining Ganga, Siva, saluted by men, went to Kailasa the most praiseworthy of mountains, accompanied by the celestials. And the protector of men (Bhagiratha) accompanied by Ganga reached the sea; and the sea, the abode of Varuna, was quickly filled.
    And the king adopted Ganga as a daughter of himself, and at that spot offered

    p. 236

    libations of water to the names of his forefathers; thus was his heart's wish fulfilled."
    ---------------

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  • From Paul in Houston TX@21:1/5 to Abhiriksh Patil on Tue Jan 3 12:48:05 2017
    Abhiriksh Patil wrote:
    On Sunday, January 1, 2017 at 10:22:35 PM UTC+5:30, Paul in Houston TX wrote:
    Abhiriksh Patil wrote:
    The 7.5 Km wide Surha Tal lake is located at Lat 25.836050°, Long 84.174503° in Ballia
    district of Uttar Pradesh (India). It is also spelled as Suraha Tal or Surah Tal.

    In Google Earth satellite images from 1984 to 2016, the area around the water body in
    Surha Tal clearly looks circular. There are legends that it was dug by kings in ancient
    time, but I strongly suspect that it is asteroid impact crater. In fact after reading
    ancient Indian history I "know" that it is asteroid impact crater, but I just don't
    know how to prove it scientifically. It looks that no geologist has ever bothered to
    look at that lake.

    Any ideas?

    Thanks !

    No raised edges, ,no central cone, and no rays.
    ~7+km in diameter. If it is a crater then my guess would be millions of years old.
    The glass beads would likely be found for at least 1000+ km radius and possibly orbital.
    I count at least 5 similar features nearby on Google and Bing maps.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)