Hi everyone
Reason for saying "in UK" is there's an orthodoxy which means it's
difficult to get other than Ar/20%CO2.
So for the rest of the world this "wow!" moment would come as a
surprise.
I worked at a highly-skilled high-specification place and they did
have Ar/15%CO2.
Can get clearly formed spray transfer.
Do not get "cannonball" spatters.
Delight to use
(eg. with Ar/20%CO2, for the time spent welding, you often spend half
as much time again chipping off spatter - even have an air power tool
to to it it's such a common matter)
Is Ar/12%CO2 better still?
Problem we'd have here is most weld qualification with "M21" gas - so Ar/15%CO2 good, but Ar/12%CO2 is in category "M20" and would need new
WPQR and WPS.
If all dip-transfer MIG/GMAW is positional eg. v-up, or low thickness
(eg. butt/girth welding RHS's together), is Ar/12%CO2 even better?
Spray transfer - even clearer defined? Or same as with 15%CO2?
"bite" with dip-transfer still good for positional?
Hi everyone
Reason for saying "in UK" is there's an orthodoxy which means it's
difficult to get other than Ar/20%CO2.
So for the rest of the world this "wow!" moment would come as a
surprise.
I worked at a highly-skilled high-specification place and they did
have Ar/15%CO2.
Can get clearly formed spray transfer.
Do not get "cannonball" spatters.
Delight to use
(eg. with Ar/20%CO2, for the time spent welding, you often spend half
as much time again chipping off spatter - even have an air power tool
to to it it's such a common matter)
Is Ar/12%CO2 better still?
Problem we'd have here is most weld qualification with "M21" gas - so Ar/15%CO2 good, but Ar/12%CO2 is in category "M20" and would need new
WPQR and WPS.
If all dip-transfer MIG/GMAW is positional eg. v-up, or low thickness
(eg. butt/girth welding RHS's together), is Ar/12%CO2 even better?
Spray transfer - even clearer defined? Or same as with 15%CO2?
"bite" with dip-transfer still good for positional?
On 31/05/2021 09:14, Richard Smith wrote:
...
"bite" with dip-transfer still good for positional?
I use BOC Argoshield light which is 93% Ar, 5% CO2, 2% O2 I've never
had a problem getting it. The Argoshield Universal is 86% Ar, 12% CO2,
and 2% O2 I've no idea about availability as I've never needed to ask.
David Billington <djb@invalid.com> writes:
On 31/05/2021 09:14, Richard Smith wrote:OK - thanks for relating experience.
...I use BOC Argoshield light which is 93% Ar, 5% CO2, 2% O2 I've never
"bite" with dip-transfer still good for positional?
had a problem getting it. The Argoshield Universal is 86% Ar, 12% CO2,
and 2% O2 I've no idea about availability as I've never needed to ask.
It's the "Argoshield Light / Medium / Heavy", a catchy marketing
slogan from some time ago, which is exactly why we have this problem,
with it becoming an orthodoxy.
There was only dip transfer then, which contributed to getting it
fairly much the wrong way around.
The problem is most have qualified their welds - done WPQR tests, with
all the costs of witnessing and tests - with Ar 20%CO2 (2%O2) - which
is in gas category "M21".
Ar 12%CO2 (2%O2) is in gas category "M20". Which I suspect these days
you'd want. But there's no way for me to know. Requalifying welds - expensive. "Painted into corner". A situation that's more political
than technical?
I don't know if with 5%CO2 you'd have enough "bite" to do dip transfer
on positional thick plate and box-sections (SHS, RHS - efficient low thicknesses compared to plate and beam)?
Honestly - never chance to try, and no-one to ask.
On 02/06/2021 07:08, Richard Smith wrote:
David Billington <djb@invalid.com> writes:I don't know how long the Argoshield gases have been around it's just
On 31/05/2021 09:14, Richard Smith wrote:...
......
what I use currently. My venerable old Eland MIG is only 160A so dip
transfer only AFAIK but it suits my needs fine. The only time I've had
the pleasure of trying spray transfer was at a small welding show back
in about 1985 in Bristol and it worked great but I don't need to weld
thick stuff very often, when I do I'll either use MMA or farm it out.
...
I don't need to weld thick stuff very often, when I do I'll either
use MMA ...
...
I don't need to weld thick stuff very often, when I do I'll either
use MMA ...
David - sounds like a very good technically sound choice.
"stick"/SMAW has that advantage.
'tother advantage is - while "stick"'s doing nothing, it's costing
nothing. Good for infrequently used process, obviouisly.
Whereas MIG/GMAW - gas bottle hire - need regular work to justify it.
Well, you know all this. Just agreeing, for what it's worth.
Rich S
...
I don't need to weld thick stuff very often, when I do I'll either
use MMA ...
David - sounds like a very good technically sound choice.
"stick"/SMAW has that advantage.
'tother advantage is - while "stick"'s doing nothing, it's costing
nothing. Good for infrequently used process, obviouisly.
Whereas MIG/GMAW - gas bottle hire - need regular work to justify it.
Well, you know all this. Just agreeing, for what it's worth.
Rich S
"Snag" wrote in message news:s9fofj$53a$1@dont-email.me...
On 6/5/2021 1:07 AM, Richard Smith wrote:
...
I don't need to weld thick stuff very often, when I do I'll either
use MMA ...
David - sounds like a very good technically sound choice.
"stick"/SMAW has that advantage.
'tother advantage is - while "stick"'s doing nothing, it's costing
nothing. Good for infrequently used process, obviouisly.
Whereas MIG/GMAW - gas bottle hire - need regular work to justify it.
Well, you know all this. Just agreeing, for what it's worth.
Rich S
Every bottle I have here is owned , not leased ... I leased an oxygen bottle for a couple of years because the supplier (NLR out of north
Little Rock Ar) refused to refill my 20 cf bottles . When I found a
supplier that would and returned that leased bottle , the new manager
GAVE me a couple of empty 20's as an apology for the previous manager's
being an asshole . They could have filled MY bottles rather than swap
them , but he was an asshole who didn't like "small guys" .
On 6/5/2021 4:29 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Snag" wrote in message news:s9fofj$53a$1@dont-email.me...
On 6/5/2021 1:07 AM, Richard Smith wrote:
...
I don't need to weld thick stuff very often, when I do I'll either
use MMA ...
David - sounds like a very good technically sound choice.
"stick"/SMAW has that advantage.
'tother advantage is - while "stick"'s doing nothing, it's costing
nothing. Good for infrequently used process, obviouisly.
Whereas MIG/GMAW - gas bottle hire - need regular work to justify it.
Well, you know all this. Just agreeing, for what it's worth.
Rich S
Every bottle I have here is owned , not leased ... I leased an oxygen >> bottle for a couple of years because the supplier (NLR out of north
Little Rock Ar) refused to refill my 20 cf bottles . When I found a
supplier that would and returned that leased bottle , the new manager
GAVE me a couple of empty 20's as an apology for the previous manager's
being an asshole . They could have filled MY bottles rather than swap
them , but he was an asshole who didn't like "small guys" .
Same here in NH, but the dealers will sell only the smaller portable
tanks, not the industrial sizes.
https://hobbyweld.co.uk/
---------------------------
The only big tank I have is the argon for the TIG welder , it's a 300
cf . CO2 , oxy and acetylene are all the smaller bottles . That's OK
though , I don't use that much of any of them - my last argon bottle
lasted like 3 years . I might use a pair of OA bottles (20 cf O2 , "B"
tank of acetylene) in a year ... especially now that I have a plasma
cutter .
Snag - is commercial welding - fine line with productivity and cost.
With a big industrial welding machine on 3-phase power, you can and
will be using spray transfer a lot of the time. Around 8kW at the
arc. More into the machine.
This gas optimisation is about getting good spray transfer, which
starts at 240A 29V - lowest commercial spray transfer condition and a
nice condition actually.
On 6/1/2021 10:52 PM, Richard Smith wrote:
Snag - is commercial welding - fine line with productivity and cost.
With a big industrial welding machine on 3-phase power, you can and
will be using spray transfer a lot of the time. Around 8kW at the
arc. More into the machine.
This gas optimisation is about getting good spray transfer, which
starts at 240A 29V - lowest commercial spray transfer condition and a
nice condition actually.
I think Snag was talking about setting up a gas mixing setup to test
your ideas. I have not seen one, but I seem to recall people talking
about having such a rig right here on this group in years past. They
hook up two bottles and the rig mixes it to give you the desired
ratio.
--
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Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> writes:
On 6/1/2021 10:52 PM, Richard Smith wrote:
Snag - is commercial welding - fine line with productivity and cost.
With a big industrial welding machine on 3-phase power, you can and
will be using spray transfer a lot of the time. Around 8kW at the
arc. More into the machine.
This gas optimisation is about getting good spray transfer, which
starts at 240A 29V - lowest commercial spray transfer condition and a
nice condition actually.
I think Snag was talking about setting up a gas mixing setup to test
your ideas. I have not seen one, but I seem to recall people talking
about having such a rig right here on this group in years past. They
hook up two bottles and the rig mixes it to give you the desired
ratio.
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
Oh if I've misread his post and said something skewy I extend
apologies to Snag.
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