• It's the steel !

    From Snag@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jan 3 12:45:50 2021
    I did the test someone suggested to check for shield gas with my TIG
    , it was getting gas to the nozzle . So I tried a few things , different
    filler , different steel piece ... and it turns out the 3x 1/4 steel I
    used is the problem . With no filler , just melt a puddle and chase it a
    couple of inches and there were all kinds of craters . Different steel
    welded nicely and had no problems . Strange , that steel welds right
    pretty with the MIG .
    I'm still going to pick up a new bottle tomorrow ... along with a
    trip to the LPG store and the grocery store . Hmmm , I should probably
    fill my gasoline cans too .
    --
    Snag
    Illegitimi non
    carborundum

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jan 3 18:51:09 2021
    "Snag" wrote in message news:rst3cu$jbq$1@dont-email.me...

    I did the test someone suggested to check for shield gas with my TIG
    , it was getting gas to the nozzle . So I tried a few things , different
    filler , different steel piece ... and it turns out the 3x 1/4 steel I
    used is the problem . With no filler , just melt a puddle and chase it a
    couple of inches and there were all kinds of craters . Different steel
    welded nicely and had no problems . Strange , that steel welds right
    pretty with the MIG .
    I'm still going to pick up a new bottle tomorrow ... along with a
    trip to the LPG store and the grocery store . Hmmm , I should probably
    fill my gasoline cans too .
    --
    Snag
    Illegitimi non
    carborundum

    ----------------------
    A possible reason:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deoxidized_steel

    https://www.esabna.com/euweb/oxy_handbook/589oxy10_4.htm

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Snag@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Sun Jan 3 19:43:27 2021
    On 1/3/2021 5:51 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Snag"  wrote in message news:rst3cu$jbq$1@dont-email.me...
      I did the test someone suggested to check for shield gas with my TIG
    , it was getting gas to the nozzle . So I tried a few things , different filler , different steel piece ... and it turns out the 3x 1/4 steel I
    used is the problem . With no filler , just melt a puddle and chase it a couple of inches and there were all kinds of craters . Different steel
    welded nicely and had no problems . Strange , that steel welds right
    pretty with the MIG .
      I'm still going to pick up a new bottle tomorrow ... along with a
    trip to the LPG store and the grocery store . Hmmm , I should probably
    fill my gasoline cans too .


    ----------------------
    A possible reason:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deoxidized_steel https://www.esabna.com/euweb/oxy_handbook/589oxy10_4.htm
    ----------------------

    This is a piece of common hot rolled steel ... that first article
    gave some insights into the problem . I won't be using the TIG welder on
    it , got a couple of welds still to do for the weathercock mount and
    I'll just use the MIG .
    --
    Snag
    Illegitimi non
    carborundum

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Billington@21:1/5 to Snag on Mon Jan 4 02:19:09 2021
    On 04/01/2021 01:43, Snag wrote:
    On 1/3/2021 5:51 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Snag"  wrote in message news:rst3cu$jbq$1@dont-email.me...
       I did the test someone suggested to check for shield gas with my
    TIG , it was getting gas to the nozzle . So I tried a few things ,
    different filler , different steel piece ... and it turns out the 3x
    1/4 steel I used is the problem . With no filler , just melt a puddle
    and chase it a couple of inches and there were all kinds of craters .
    Different steel welded nicely and had no problems . Strange , that
    steel welds right pretty with the MIG .
       I'm still going to pick up a new bottle tomorrow ... along with a
    trip to the LPG store and the grocery store . Hmmm , I should
    probably fill my gasoline cans too .


    ----------------------
    A possible reason:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deoxidized_steel https://www.esabna.com/euweb/oxy_handbook/589oxy10_4.htm ----------------------

      This is a piece of common hot rolled steel ... that first article
    gave some insights into the problem . I won't be using the TIG welder
    on it , got a couple of welds still to do for the weathercock mount
    and I'll just use the MIG .

    When I lived in the US and was doing machining training I turned a
    number of parts from hot rolled steel and would frequently  have lines
    along the axis of the part on the surface, I questioned the instructor
    and he was puzzled but we figured in the end it was slag or porosity in
    the melt being drawn out when the steel was rolled into bar stock
    leading to small voids/inclusions in the material. I think I've only
    seen it once since in the UK and I have no idea of how it might effect
    welds. I've welded many hot rolled and cold rolled pieces subsequently
    in the UK without issue although I have seen some products that must
    have been made from a contaminated steel batch  which split up and
    cracked in use due to the contamination.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Richard Smith@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Mon Jan 4 22:54:34 2021
    "Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

    "Snag" wrote in message news:rst3cu$jbq$1@dont-email.me...

    I did the test someone suggested to check for shield gas with my TIG
    , it was getting gas to the nozzle . So I tried a few things ,
    different filler , different steel piece ... and it turns out the 3x
    1/4 steel I used is the problem . With no filler , just melt a puddle
    and chase it a couple of inches and there were all kinds of craters
    . Different steel welded nicely and had no problems . Strange , that
    steel welds right pretty with the MIG .
    I'm still going to pick up a new bottle tomorrow ... along with a
    trip to the LPG store and the grocery store . Hmmm , I should probably
    fill my gasoline cans too .
    --
    Snag
    Illegitimi non
    carborundum

    ----------------------

    A possible reason:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deoxidized_steel

    https://www.esabna.com/euweb/oxy_handbook/589oxy10_4.htm

    I thought all concast (continuously cast) steels are "killed" "flat" -
    and all general steels these days are concast?

    These articles describe what did happen in history, when general
    steels were ingot cast?

    ???

    Rich S

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Tue Jan 5 07:11:09 2021
    "Richard Smith" wrote in message news:ly5z4ctis5.fsf@richards-air-2.home...

    "Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

    "Snag" wrote in message news:rst3cu$jbq$1@dont-email.me...

    I did the test someone suggested to check for shield gas with my TIG
    , it was getting gas to the nozzle . So I tried a few things ,
    different filler , different steel piece ... and it turns out the 3x
    1/4 steel I used is the problem . With no filler , just melt a puddle
    and chase it a couple of inches and there were all kinds of craters
    . Different steel welded nicely and had no problems . Strange , that
    steel welds right pretty with the MIG .
    I'm still going to pick up a new bottle tomorrow ... along with a
    trip to the LPG store and the grocery store . Hmmm , I should probably
    fill my gasoline cans too .
    --
    Snag
    Illegitimi non
    carborundum

    ----------------------

    A possible reason:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deoxidized_steel

    https://www.esabna.com/euweb/oxy_handbook/589oxy10_4.htm

    I thought all concast (continuously cast) steels are "killed" "flat" -
    and all general steels these days are concast?

    These articles describe what did happen in history, when general
    steels were ingot cast?

    ???

    Rich S
    --------------

    Britannica gives about 55% concast. https://www.britannica.com/technology/steel/Casting-of-steel

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Smith@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Tue Jan 5 20:38:39 2021
    "Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

    "Richard Smith" wrote in message news:ly5z4ctis5.fsf@richards-air-2.home...

    "Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

    "Snag" wrote in message news:rst3cu$jbq$1@dont-email.me...

    I did the test someone suggested to check for shield gas with my TIG
    ...
    fill my gasoline cans too .
    --
    Snag
    Illegitimi non
    carborundum

    ----------------------

    A possible reason:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deoxidized_steel

    https://www.esabna.com/euweb/oxy_handbook/589oxy10_4.htm

    I thought all concast (continuously cast) steels are "killed" "flat" -
    and all general steels these days are concast?

    These articles describe what did happen in history, when general
    steels were ingot cast?

    ???

    Rich S
    --------------

    Britannica gives about 55% concast. https://www.britannica.com/technology/steel/Casting-of-steel

    "Wide end up" ingot casting is expensive and uses exothermic capping
    to avoid vast "pipes" etc.
    Yield only about 80% at best given that.

    "Balanced" narrow end up, direct pour into ingot mould - high yield -
    something in the upper 90's percent?
    (no experience of ...)
    ("balanced" equals fizzes out just the right amount of gas to offset
    shrinkage on cooling and solidification)

    But that oxide reaction means the steel cannot be "clean" (it's got a
    lot of oxide inclusions).

    "concast" - benefits from increase in performance of refractories.
    You can only "concast" fully "killed" steel - (fully deoxidised).
    You get high yield with concast, with that "killed" steel.
    Then it gets better, as I understand it.
    With the performance of current refractories, after the arc furnace
    (scrap melt) or the converter (first melt in blast furnace), you can
    tip that initial steel into a ladle-furnace and set up a ferociously
    cleansing reducing chemically basic slag. Plus in no-oxygen
    condition, can inject thing like calcium as mega refiner.
    So when "concast" - getting that high yield - things are highly
    stacked in your favour...

    Is that as you understand?

    Rich Smith

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Tue Jan 5 17:40:27 2021
    "Richard Smith" wrote in message news:lyh7nvw240.fsf@richards-air-2.home...

    "Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

    "Richard Smith" wrote in message
    news:ly5z4ctis5.fsf@richards-air-2.home...

    "Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

    "Snag" wrote in message news:rst3cu$jbq$1@dont-email.me...

    I did the test someone suggested to check for shield gas with my TIG
    ...
    fill my gasoline cans too .
    --
    Snag
    Illegitimi non
    carborundum

    ----------------------

    A possible reason:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deoxidized_steel

    https://www.esabna.com/euweb/oxy_handbook/589oxy10_4.htm

    I thought all concast (continuously cast) steels are "killed" "flat" -
    and all general steels these days are concast?

    These articles describe what did happen in history, when general
    steels were ingot cast?

    ???

    Rich S
    --------------

    Britannica gives about 55% concast. https://www.britannica.com/technology/steel/Casting-of-steel

    "Wide end up" ingot casting is expensive and uses exothermic capping
    to avoid vast "pipes" etc.
    Yield only about 80% at best given that.

    "Balanced" narrow end up, direct pour into ingot mould - high yield -
    something in the upper 90's percent?
    (no experience of ...)
    ("balanced" equals fizzes out just the right amount of gas to offset
    shrinkage on cooling and solidification)

    But that oxide reaction means the steel cannot be "clean" (it's got a
    lot of oxide inclusions).

    "concast" - benefits from increase in performance of refractories.
    You can only "concast" fully "killed" steel - (fully deoxidised).
    You get high yield with concast, with that "killed" steel.
    Then it gets better, as I understand it.
    With the performance of current refractories, after the arc furnace
    (scrap melt) or the converter (first melt in blast furnace), you can
    tip that initial steel into a ladle-furnace and set up a ferociously
    cleansing reducing chemically basic slag. Plus in no-oxygen
    condition, can inject thing like calcium as mega refiner.
    So when "concast" - getting that high yield - things are highly
    stacked in your favour...

    Is that as you understand?

    Rich Smith

    -------------------------------
    Most of my steel making knowledge dates from a Materials Science course in
    the 1960's. I remember oscillating water cooled copper molds and not much
    more. After graduation the Army tempted me into computer electronics where I stayed.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Randy333@21:1/5 to Snag on Fri Jan 29 09:04:09 2021
    On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 12:45:50 -0600, Snag <Snag_one@msn.com> wrote:

    I did the test someone suggested to check for shield gas with my TIG
    , it was getting gas to the nozzle . So I tried a few things , different >filler , different steel piece ... and it turns out the 3x 1/4 steel I
    used is the problem . With no filler , just melt a puddle and chase it a >couple of inches and there were all kinds of craters . Different steel
    welded nicely and had no problems . Strange , that steel welds right
    pretty with the MIG .
    I'm still going to pick up a new bottle tomorrow ... along with a
    trip to the LPG store and the grocery store . Hmmm , I should probably
    fill my gasoline cans too .

    TIG weld with 70S6 filler rod. 70S6 filler has the highest amount of de-oxidizers and works good with steel that's not perfect.

    In my limited experience hot rolled generally welds worse than cold
    rolled, a de-oxidizing filler is required.

    Randy
    Remove 333 to reply.
    Randy

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Snag@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jan 29 08:42:57 2021
    On 1/29/2021 8:04 AM, Randy333 wrote:
    On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 12:45:50 -0600, Snag <Snag_one@msn.com> wrote:

    I did the test someone suggested to check for shield gas with my TIG
    , it was getting gas to the nozzle . So I tried a few things , different
    filler , different steel piece ... and it turns out the 3x 1/4 steel I
    used is the problem . With no filler , just melt a puddle and chase it a
    couple of inches and there were all kinds of craters . Different steel
    welded nicely and had no problems . Strange , that steel welds right
    pretty with the MIG .
    I'm still going to pick up a new bottle tomorrow ... along with a
    trip to the LPG store and the grocery store . Hmmm , I should probably
    fill my gasoline cans too .

    TIG weld with 70S6 filler rod. 70S6 filler has the highest amount of de-oxidizers and works good with steel that's not perfect.

    In my limited experience hot rolled generally welds worse than cold
    rolled, a de-oxidizing filler is required.

    Randy
    Remove 333 to reply.
    Randy


    The TIG filler I have is 70S2 , the MIG wire is 70S6 , maybe that's
    why it was more easily weldable with the MIG . Either way , the weather
    vane is finished and mounted on the house now . And apparently I got it perfectly plumb on the first try , seems every time I look at it it's
    pointing a different direction . Not settling to the same position is a
    good thing .
    --
    Snag
    Illegitimi non
    carborundum

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From etpm@whidbey.com@21:1/5 to Snag on Fri Jan 29 09:25:07 2021
    On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 08:42:57 -0600, Snag <Snag_one@msn.com> wrote:

    On 1/29/2021 8:04 AM, Randy333 wrote:
    On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 12:45:50 -0600, Snag <Snag_one@msn.com> wrote:

    I did the test someone suggested to check for shield gas with my TIG
    , it was getting gas to the nozzle . So I tried a few things , different >>> filler , different steel piece ... and it turns out the 3x 1/4 steel I
    used is the problem . With no filler , just melt a puddle and chase it a >>> couple of inches and there were all kinds of craters . Different steel
    welded nicely and had no problems . Strange , that steel welds right
    pretty with the MIG .
    I'm still going to pick up a new bottle tomorrow ... along with a
    trip to the LPG store and the grocery store . Hmmm , I should probably
    fill my gasoline cans too .

    TIG weld with 70S6 filler rod. 70S6 filler has the highest amount of
    de-oxidizers and works good with steel that's not perfect.

    In my limited experience hot rolled generally welds worse than cold
    rolled, a de-oxidizing filler is required.

    Randy
    Remove 333 to reply.
    Randy


    The TIG filler I have is 70S2 , the MIG wire is 70S6 , maybe that's
    why it was more easily weldable with the MIG . Either way , the weather
    vane is finished and mounted on the house now . And apparently I got it >perfectly plumb on the first try , seems every time I look at it it's >pointing a different direction . Not settling to the same position is a
    good thing .
    How do you know it's not gremlins pushing your vane around? It could
    happen. Just ask William Shatner.
    Eric

    ---
    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Snag@21:1/5 to etpm@whidbey.com on Sat Jan 30 07:19:24 2021
    On 1/29/2021 11:25 AM, etpm@whidbey.com wrote:
    On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 08:42:57 -0600, Snag <Snag_one@msn.com> wrote:

    On 1/29/2021 8:04 AM, Randy333 wrote:
    On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 12:45:50 -0600, Snag <Snag_one@msn.com> wrote:

    I did the test someone suggested to check for shield gas with my TIG >>>> , it was getting gas to the nozzle . So I tried a few things , different >>>> filler , different steel piece ... and it turns out the 3x 1/4 steel I >>>> used is the problem . With no filler , just melt a puddle and chase it a >>>> couple of inches and there were all kinds of craters . Different steel >>>> welded nicely and had no problems . Strange , that steel welds right
    pretty with the MIG .
    I'm still going to pick up a new bottle tomorrow ... along with a
    trip to the LPG store and the grocery store . Hmmm , I should probably >>>> fill my gasoline cans too .

    TIG weld with 70S6 filler rod. 70S6 filler has the highest amount of
    de-oxidizers and works good with steel that's not perfect.

    In my limited experience hot rolled generally welds worse than cold
    rolled, a de-oxidizing filler is required.

    Randy
    Remove 333 to reply.
    Randy


    The TIG filler I have is 70S2 , the MIG wire is 70S6 , maybe that's
    why it was more easily weldable with the MIG . Either way , the weather
    vane is finished and mounted on the house now . And apparently I got it
    perfectly plumb on the first try , seems every time I look at it it's
    pointing a different direction . Not settling to the same position is a
    good thing .
    How do you know it's not gremlins pushing your vane around? It could
    happen. Just ask William Shatner.
    Eric

    ---
    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus


    Well , they must be mighty damn quick if that's the answer ! So fast
    that you can't see 'em doing their dirty little tricks , I've watched it
    move with wind changes and I haven't seen the little buggers .
    --
    Snag
    Illegitimi non
    carborundum

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to etpm@whidbey.com on Sat Jan 30 09:16:31 2021
    "Snag" wrote in message news:rv3mcn$p5k$1@dont-email.me...

    On 1/29/2021 11:25 AM, etpm@whidbey.com wrote:
    ...
    How do you know it's not gremlins pushing your vane around? It could
    happen. Just ask William Shatner.
    Eric


    Well , they must be mighty damn quick if that's the answer ! So fast
    that you can't see 'em doing their dirty little tricks , I've watched it
    move with wind changes and I haven't seen the little buggers .
    --
    Snag
    Illegitimi non
    carborundum

    ----------------

    Gremlins are from another dimension and can only be seen with special
    filters. For example I only see their mischief through a welding hood.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Snag on Sun Jan 31 20:38:00 2021
    On 1/29/2021 7:42 AM, Snag wrote:
    On 1/29/2021 8:04 AM, Randy333 wrote:
    On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 12:45:50 -0600, Snag <Snag_one@msn.com> wrote:

       I did the test someone suggested to check for shield gas with my TIG >>> , it was getting gas to the nozzle . So I tried a few things , different >>> filler , different steel piece ... and it turns out the 3x 1/4 steel I
    used is the problem . With no filler , just melt a puddle and chase it a >>> couple of inches and there were all kinds of craters . Different steel
    welded nicely and had no problems . Strange , that steel welds right
    pretty with the MIG .
       I'm still going to pick up a new bottle tomorrow ... along with a
    trip to the LPG store and the grocery store . Hmmm , I should probably
    fill my gasoline cans too .

    TIG weld with 70S6 filler rod.  70S6 filler has the highest amount of
    de-oxidizers and works good with steel that's not perfect.

    In my limited experience hot rolled generally welds worse than cold
    rolled, a de-oxidizing filler is required.

    Randy
    Remove 333 to reply.
    Randy


      The TIG filler I have is 70S2 , the MIG wire is 70S6 , maybe that's
    why it was more easily weldable with the MIG . Either way , the weather
    vane is finished and mounted on the house now . And apparently I got it perfectly plumb on the first try , seems every time I look at it it's pointing a different direction . Not settling to the same position is a
    good thing .

    You know at my local welding supply (the good one) I asked for some 70S6
    TIG rod and they acted like I didn't know any better. I asked the store manager what the difference was, and he said basically the same thing.
    70S6 was for metal with light mill scale or not totally cleaned up.
    70S2 requires clean metal.

    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
    https://www.avg.com

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