When the wind stops blowing, the electricity stops flowing!
On 28/09/2021 5:57 am, contact wrote:
When the wind stops blowing, the electricity stops flowing!
Interesting my house is totally solar and I have power at night. Go figure
On 28/09/2021 5:57 am, contact wrote:
When the wind stops blowing, the electricity stops flowing!
Interesting my house is totally solar and I have power at night. Go figure
On 9/27/2021 2:15 PM, Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 5:57 am, contact wrote:
When the wind stops blowing, the electricity stops flowing!
Interesting my house is totally solar and I have power at night. Go
figure
We all figure that either "my house is totally solar" or "I have
power at night" is a lie, because they can't both be true.
"Just Wondering" wrote in message news:Ssq4J.17545$IO1.13914@fx19.iad...
On 9/27/2021 2:15 PM, Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 5:57 am, contact wrote:
When the wind stops blowing, the electricity stops flowing!
Interesting my house is totally solar and I have power at night. Go
figure
We all figure that either "my house is totally solar" or "I have
power at night" is a lie, because they can't both be true.
-----------------------
"Totally solar" is a "black box" model which means that solar is your
only source of electricity, it can include storage batteries to postpone
the use of that electricity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_box
On 9/27/2021 2:15 PM, Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 5:57 am, contact wrote:
When the wind stops blowing, the electricity stops flowing!
Interesting my house is totally solar and I have power at night. Go
figure
We all figure that either "my house is totally solar" or "I have
power at night" is a lie, because they can't both be true.
"Just Wondering" wrote in message news:Ssq4J.17545$IO1.13914@fx19.iad...
On 9/27/2021 2:15 PM, Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 5:57 am, contact wrote:
When the wind stops blowing, the electricity stops flowing!
Interesting my house is totally solar and I have power at night. Go
figure
We all figure that either "my house is totally solar" or "I have
power at night" is a lie, because they can't both be true.
-----------------------
"Totally solar" is a "black box" model which means that solar is your
only source of electricity, it can include storage batteries to postpone
the use of that electricity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_box
On 28/09/2021 7:12 am, Just Wondering wrote:
On 9/27/2021 2:15 PM, Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 5:57 am, contact wrote:
When the wind stops blowing, the electricity stops flowing!
Interesting my house is totally solar and I have power at night. Go
figure
We all figure that either "my house is totally solar" or "I have
power at night" is a lie, because they can't both be true.
That is the reality. Come on have a think about how this reality is
achieved.
On 9/27/2021 2:12 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
On 9/27/2021 2:15 PM, Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 5:57 am, contact wrote:
When the wind stops blowing, the electricity stops flowing!
Interesting my house is totally solar and I have power at night. Go
figure
We all figure that either "my house is totally solar" or "I have
power at night" is a lie, because they can't both be true.
No, we do not.
Yes, they can.
On 28/09/2021 8:11 am, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Just Wondering" wrote in message news:Ssq4J.17545$IO1.13914@fx19.iad... >>Not sure solar power stored in a battery is a "black box" model. The
On 9/27/2021 2:15 PM, Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 5:57 am, contact wrote:
When the wind stops blowing, the electricity stops flowing!
Interesting my house is totally solar and I have power at night. Go
figure
We all figure that either "my house is totally solar" or "I have
power at night" is a lie, because they can't both be true.
-----------------------
"Totally solar" is a "black box" model which means that solar is your
only source of electricity, it can include storage batteries to
postpone the use of that electricity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_box
system I have can obviously be scaled up, Aus currently has 7000
megawatts of battery storage to put into the grid.
On 9/27/2021 5:00 PM, Bob F wrote:
On 9/27/2021 2:12 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
On 9/27/2021 2:15 PM, Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 5:57 am, contact wrote:
When the wind stops blowing, the electricity stops flowing!
Interesting my house is totally solar and I have power at night. Go
figure
We all figure that either "my house is totally solar" or "I have
power at night" is a lie, because they can't both be true.
No, we do not.
Yes, they can.
Explain how you get totally solar energy when the sun
is below the horizon.
On 9/27/2021 4:31 PM, Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 8:11 am, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Just Wondering" wrote in messageNot sure solar power stored in a battery is a "black box" model. The
news:Ssq4J.17545$IO1.13914@fx19.iad...
On 9/27/2021 2:15 PM, Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 5:57 am, contact wrote:
When the wind stops blowing, the electricity stops flowing!
Interesting my house is totally solar and I have power at night. Go
figure
We all figure that either "my house is totally solar" or "I have
power at night" is a lie, because they can't both be true.
-----------------------
"Totally solar" is a "black box" model which means that solar is your
only source of electricity, it can include storage batteries to
postpone the use of that electricity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_box
system I have can obviously be scaled up, Aus currently has 7000
megawatts of battery storage to put into the grid.
Battery storage is chemical energy not solar energy.
On 9/27/2021 3:25 PM, Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 7:12 am, Just Wondering wrote:
On 9/27/2021 2:15 PM, Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 5:57 am, contact wrote:
When the wind stops blowing, the electricity stops flowing!
Interesting my house is totally solar and I have power at night. Go
figure
We all figure that either "my house is totally solar" or "I have
power at night" is a lie, because they can't both be true.
That is the reality. Come on have a think about how this reality is
achieved.
The reality is probably that you uses solar energy when the sun
is shining, and chemical energy in the form of batteries when
solar energy is unavailable.
Storage batteries = NOT "totally solar".
Storage batteries =
chemical energy -> electrical energy. They don't postpone
the use of solar energy, they use electrical energy which can
be from any source to make a chemical reaction. When you use
a battery, another chemical reaction that results in the release
of electrical energy. None of those processes involve solar
energy.
On 9/27/2021 4:11 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Just Wondering" wrote in message news:Ssq4J.17545$IO1.13914@fx19.iad... >>
On 9/27/2021 2:15 PM, Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 5:57 am, contact wrote:
When the wind stops blowing, the electricity stops flowing!
Interesting my house is totally solar and I have power at night. Go
figure
We all figure that either "my house is totally solar" or "I have
power at night" is a lie, because they can't both be true.
-----------------------
"Totally solar" is a "black box" model which means that solar is your
only source of electricity, it can include storage batteries to
postpone the use of that electricity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_box
Storage batteries = NOT "totally solar". Storage batteries =
chemical energy -> electrical energy. They don't postpone
the use of solar energy, they use electrical energy which can
be from any source to make a chemical reaction. When you use
a battery, another chemical reaction that results in the release
of electrical energy. None of those processes involve solar
energy.
On 28/09/2021 11:16 am, Just Wondering wrote:
On 9/27/2021 4:31 PM, Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 8:11 am, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Just Wondering" wrote in messageNot sure solar power stored in a battery is a "black box" model. The
news:Ssq4J.17545$IO1.13914@fx19.iad...
On 9/27/2021 2:15 PM, Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 5:57 am, contact wrote:
When the wind stops blowing, the electricity stops flowing!
Interesting my house is totally solar and I have power at night. Go
figure
We all figure that either "my house is totally solar" or "I have
power at night" is a lie, because they can't both be true.
-----------------------
"Totally solar" is a "black box" model which means that solar is
your only source of electricity, it can include storage batteries to
postpone the use of that electricity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_box
system I have can obviously be scaled up, Aus currently has 7000
megawatts of battery storage to put into the grid.
Battery storage is chemical energy not solar energy.
Solar energy is a chemical reaction, hey you can claim I'm using nuclear power.
If it makes you happy to believe that renewable energy can't
keep going when the sun doesn't and the wind doesn't blow
because chemical storage is used so be it.
On 9/27/2021 6:17 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
On 9/27/2021 5:00 PM, Bob F wrote:
On 9/27/2021 2:12 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
On 9/27/2021 2:15 PM, Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 5:57 am, contact wrote:
When the wind stops blowing, the electricity stops flowing!
Interesting my house is totally solar and I have power at night. Go
figure
We all figure that either "my house is totally solar" or "I have
power at night" is a lie, because they can't both be true.
No, we do not.
Yes, they can.
Explain how you get totally solar energy when the sun
is below the horizon.
I don't need to play your word games. The energy is solar, with some
stored in batteries for later use. It is not hydro, it is not fossil
fuel, it is solar.
On 28/09/2021 11:15 am, Just Wondering wrote:
On 9/27/2021 3:25 PM, Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 7:12 am, Just Wondering wrote:
On 9/27/2021 2:15 PM, Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 5:57 am, contact wrote:
When the wind stops blowing, the electricity stops flowing!
Interesting my house is totally solar and I have power at night. Go
figure
We all figure that either "my house is totally solar" or "I have
power at night" is a lie, because they can't both be true.
That is the reality. Come on have a think about how this reality is
achieved.
The reality is probably that you uses solar energy when the sun
is shining, and chemical energy in the form of batteries when
solar energy is unavailable.
The reality is that the energy comes from the sun, batteries are a
storage mechanism
Storage batteries = NOT "totally solar".
Yes they are as that is what charges them
Storage batteries = chemical energy -> electrical energy.
They don't postpone the use of solar energy, they use electrical
energy which can be from any source to make a chemical reaction.
When you use a battery, another chemical reaction that results
in the release of electrical energy. None of those processes
involve solar energy.
I'll give it a go and disconnect my solar panels from the batteries
and see how long this chemical reaction lasts, actually I know it
will be 5 days.
Than I will recharge them from the sun.
On 9/27/2021 8:30 PM, Bob F wrote:
On 9/27/2021 6:17 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
On 9/27/2021 5:00 PM, Bob F wrote:
On 9/27/2021 2:12 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
On 9/27/2021 2:15 PM, Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 5:57 am, contact wrote:
When the wind stops blowing, the electricity stops flowing!
Interesting my house is totally solar and I have power at night.
Go figure
We all figure that either "my house is totally solar" or "I have
power at night" is a lie, because they can't both be true.
No, we do not.
Yes, they can.
Explain how you get totally solar energy when the sun
is below the horizon.
I don't need to play your word games. The energy is solar, with some
stored in batteries for later use. It is not hydro, it is not fossil
fuel, it is solar.
You could use excess solar power during the day to pump water into an
uphill pond and use a water-powered generator at night.
use solar energy to grow trees and such that can be burned to power
electric generators. Fossil fuel is just wood that has been stored a
very long time before we burn it to release the stored solar power.
It's not a word game. Energy stored in batteries literally is
not solar energy even if electricity generated from solar panels
is used to charge the batteries. If you're going to play THAT
word game, quite literally every energy source in use is stored
solar energy. If that's the game you want to play, hydro power
is stored solar power. Wind power is stored solar power, Energy
from burning any sort of fuel is stored solar power. Muscle power
is stored solar power. Geothermal is stored solar power. Even
nuclear is stored solar power. So if THAT's how you play the
game, every house on the planet is totally solar.
On 9/27/2021 8:53 PM, Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 11:15 am, Just Wondering wrote:
On 9/27/2021 3:25 PM, Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 7:12 am, Just Wondering wrote:
On 9/27/2021 2:15 PM, Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 5:57 am, contact wrote:
When the wind stops blowing, the electricity stops flowing!
Interesting my house is totally solar and I have power at night.
Go figure
We all figure that either "my house is totally solar" or "I have
power at night" is a lie, because they can't both be true.
That is the reality. Come on have a think about how this reality is
achieved.
The reality is probably that you uses solar energy when the sun
is shining, and chemical energy in the form of batteries when
solar energy is unavailable.
The reality is that the energy comes from the sun, batteries are a
storage mechanism
If you want to play that game, hydroelectric power is only a
storage mechanism for solar energy. Wind energy is only a
storage machanism for solar energy. Burning anything (wood,
coal, oil, natural gas, ethanol, whatever) is only a storage
mechanism for solar energy. From science's explanation of how
suns and planets are formed, even nuclear energy is only a
storage mechanism for solar energy.
Storage batteries = NOT "totally solar".
Yes they are as that is what charges them
Any source of electricity will charge batteries. I charge the
batteries in my wireless computer mouse by plugging the mouse
into a USB port, which draws power from my computer which is
plugged into an outlet that receives power from my friendly
regional electric utility, which gets its electricity from
who knows where. Battery power is not solar power no matter
how much you want to rationalize it.>
Storage batteries = chemical energy -> electrical energy. They don't
postpone the use of solar energy, they use electrical
energy which can be from any source to make a chemical reaction. When
you use a battery, another chemical reaction that results
in the release of electrical energy. None of those processes
involve solar energy.
I'll give it a go and disconnect my solar panels from the batteries
and see how long this chemical reaction lasts, actually I know it will
be 5 days.
During those five days you will get your electricity from a
chemical reaction, not from the sun.
Than I will recharge them from the sun.
Or you could recharge your batteries from a gas-powered generator,
or you could hook up a car generator to a windmill and use the wind
to charge your batteries,
or connect that generator to a stationary
bicycle and pedal away until your batteries are charged.
However
you charge your batteries, when you draw power from those batteries
it is not solar power, it is chemical energy.
On 28/09/2021 11:13 am, Just Wondering wrote:
On 9/27/2021 4:11 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Just Wondering" wrote in message
news:Ssq4J.17545$IO1.13914@fx19.iad...
On 9/27/2021 2:15 PM, Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 5:57 am, contact wrote:
When the wind stops blowing, the electricity stops flowing!
Interesting my house is totally solar and I have power at night. Go
figure
We all figure that either "my house is totally solar" or "I have
power at night" is a lie, because they can't both be true.
"Totally solar" is a "black box" model which means that solar is your
only source of electricity, it can include storage batteries to
postpone the use of that electricity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_box
Storage batteries = NOT "totally solar". Storage batteries =
chemical energy -> electrical energy. They don't postpone
the use of solar energy, they use electrical energy which can
be from any source to make a chemical reaction. When you use
a battery, another chemical reaction that results in the release
of electrical energy. None of those processes involve solar
energy.
Except for the charging part in my case
On 28/09/2021 4:39 pm, Just Wondering wrote:
On 9/27/2021 8:53 PM, Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 11:15 am, Just Wondering wrote:
On 9/27/2021 3:25 PM, Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 7:12 am, Just Wondering wrote:
On 9/27/2021 2:15 PM, Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 5:57 am, contact wrote:
When the wind stops blowing, the electricity stops flowing!
Interesting my house is totally solar and I have power at night. >>>>>>> Go figure
We all figure that either "my house is totally solar" or "I have
power at night" is a lie, because they can't both be true.
That is the reality. Come on have a think about how this reality is
achieved.
The reality is probably that you uses solar energy when the sun
is shining, and chemical energy in the form of batteries when
solar energy is unavailable.
The reality is that the energy comes from the sun, batteries are a
storage mechanism
If you want to play that game, hydroelectric power is only a
storage mechanism for solar energy. Wind energy is only a
storage machanism for solar energy. Burning anything (wood,
coal, oil, natural gas, ethanol, whatever) is only a storage
mechanism for solar energy. From science's explanation of how
suns and planets are formed, even nuclear energy is only a
storage mechanism for solar energy.
Storage batteries = NOT "totally solar".
Yes they are as that is what charges them
Any source of electricity will charge batteries. I charge the
batteries in my wireless computer mouse by plugging the mouse
into a USB port, which draws power from my computer which is
plugged into an outlet that receives power from my friendly
regional electric utility, which gets its electricity from
who knows where. Battery power is not solar power no matter
how much you want to rationalize it.>
Of course solar is the source of power for the batteries. Thanks for a
new but inane argument
Storage batteries = chemical energy -> electrical energy. They don't
postpone the use of solar energy, they use electrical
energy which can be from any source to make a chemical reaction.
When you use a battery, another chemical reaction that results
in the release of electrical energy. None of those processes
involve solar energy.
I'll give it a go and disconnect my solar panels from the batteries
and see how long this chemical reaction lasts, actually I know it
will be 5 days.
During those five days you will get your electricity from a
chemical reaction, not from the sun.
A chemical reaction that got it's power from being recharged by the sun
Than I will recharge them from the sun.
Or you could recharge your batteries from a gas-powered generator,
or you could hook up a car generator to a windmill and use the wind
to charge your batteries,
Are wind power is an excellent renewable energy source
or connect that generator to a stationary
bicycle and pedal away until your batteries are charged.
My emergency radio works like that
However you charge your batteries, when you draw power from
those batteries it is not solar power, it is chemical energy.
If you're happy with that inanity so be it
On 9/27/2021 2:15 PM, Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 5:57 am, contact wrote:
When the wind stops blowing, the electricity stops flowing!
Interesting my house is totally solar and I have power at night. Go
figure
We all figure that either "my house is totally solar" or "I have
power at night" is a lie, because they can't both be true.
My emergency radio works like that
However you charge your batteries, when you draw power from
those batteries it is not solar power, it is chemical energy.
If you're happy with that inanity so be it
I'm talking science, you're talking political correctness.
Not sure solar power stored in a battery is a "black box" model. The
system I have can obviously be scaled up, Aus currently has 7000 megawatts
of battery storage to put into the grid.
Battery storage is chemical energy not solar energy.
"Just Wondering" wrote in message news:Ssq4J.17545$IO1.13914@fx19.iad...
On 9/27/2021 2:15 PM, Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 5:57 am, contact wrote:
When the wind stops blowing, the electricity stops flowing!
Interesting my house is totally solar and I have power at night. Go
figure
We all figure that either "my house is totally solar" or "I have
power at night" is a lie, because they can't both be true.
-----------------------
"Totally solar" is a "black box" model which means that solar is your only source of electricity, it can include storage batteries to postpone the
use of that electricity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_box
On 9/27/2021 6:17 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
On 9/27/2021 5:00 PM, Bob F wrote:
On 9/27/2021 2:12 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
On 9/27/2021 2:15 PM, Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 5:57 am, contact wrote:
When the wind stops blowing, the electricity stops flowing!
Interesting my house is totally solar and I have power at night. Go
figure
We all figure that either "my house is totally solar" or "I have
power at night" is a lie, because they can't both be true.
No, we do not.
Yes, they can.
Explain how you get totally solar energy when the sun
is below the horizon.
I don't need to play your word games. The energy is solar, with some
stored in batteries for later use. It is not hydro, it is not fossil fuel,
it is solar.
"Bob F" <bobnospam@gmail.com> wrote in message news:situno$el1$1@dont-email.me...
On 9/27/2021 6:17 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
On 9/27/2021 5:00 PM, Bob F wrote:
On 9/27/2021 2:12 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
On 9/27/2021 2:15 PM, Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 5:57 am, contact wrote:
When the wind stops blowing, the electricity stops flowing!
Interesting my house is totally solar and I have power at night.
Go figure
We all figure that either "my house is totally solar" or "I have
power at night" is a lie, because they can't both be true.
No, we do not.
Yes, they can.
Explain how you get totally solar energy when the sun
is below the horizon.
I don't need to play your word games. The energy is solar, with some
stored in batteries for later use. It is not hydro, it is not fossil
fuel, it is solar.
<Raises Hand>
Can you tell me how you insure that the energy used to produce every component of the system, including transportation of such, used 100%
solar power?
Are cargo ships from China now equipped with solar powered engines?
Are you aware that the primary source of the overwhelming bulk of solar equipment is from the biggest source of emissions and pollution on the planet?
If you're just pushing the pollution to somewhere you don't see it, does
that really change anything?
On 9/27/2021 8:30 PM, Bob F wrote:
On 9/27/2021 6:17 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
On 9/27/2021 5:00 PM, Bob F wrote:
On 9/27/2021 2:12 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
On 9/27/2021 2:15 PM, Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 5:57 am, contact wrote:
When the wind stops blowing, the electricity stops flowing!
Interesting my house is totally solar and I have power at night.
Go figure
We all figure that either "my house is totally solar" or "I have
power at night" is a lie, because they can't both be true.
No, we do not.
Yes, they can.
Explain how you get totally solar energy when the sun
is below the horizon.
I don't need to play your word games. The energy is solar, with some
stored in batteries for later use. It is not hydro, it is not fossil
fuel, it is solar.
You could use excess solar power during the day to pump water into an
uphill pond and use a water-powered generator at night. We can and do
use solar energy to grow trees and such that can be burned to power
electric generators. Fossil fuel is just wood that has been stored a
very long time before we burn it to release the stored solar power.
It's not a word game. Energy stored in batteries literally is
not solar energy even if electricity generated from solar panels
is used to charge the batteries. If you're going to play THAT
word game, quite literally every energy source in use is stored
solar energy. If that's the game you want to play, hydro power
is stored solar power. Wind power is stored solar power, Energy
from burning any sort of fuel is stored solar power. Muscle power
is stored solar power. Geothermal is stored solar power. Even
nuclear is stored solar power. So if THAT's how you play the
game, every house on the planet is totally solar.
"Just Wondering" wrote in message news:Ssq4J.17545$IO1.13914@fx19.iad...
On 9/27/2021 2:15 PM, Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 5:57 am, contact wrote:
When the wind stops blowing, the electricity stops flowing!
Interesting my house is totally solar and I have power at night. Go
figure
We all figure that either "my house is totally solar" or "I have
power at night" is a lie, because they can't both be true.
-----------------------
"Totally solar" is a "black box" model which means that solar is your only source of electricity, it can include storage batteries to postpone the
use of that electricity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_box
If you're happy with that inanity so be it
I acknowledge the science. So you think science is inane. Got it.
If battery power is solar power, so is hydro power. But neither
is what people mean when they say "solar power".
On 28/09/2021 4:56 pm, Just Wondering wrote:
On 9/27/2021 8:30 PM, Bob F wrote:
On 9/27/2021 6:17 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
On 9/27/2021 5:00 PM, Bob F wrote:
On 9/27/2021 2:12 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
On 9/27/2021 2:15 PM, Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 5:57 am, contact wrote:
When the wind stops blowing, the electricity stops flowing!
Interesting my house is totally solar and I have power at night. >>>>>>> Go figure
We all figure that either "my house is totally solar" or "I have
power at night" is a lie, because they can't both be true.
No, we do not.
Yes, they can.
Explain how you get totally solar energy when the sun
is below the horizon.
I don't need to play your word games. The energy is solar, with some
stored in batteries for later use. It is not hydro, it is not fossil
fuel, it is solar.
You could use excess solar power during the day to pump water into an
uphill pond and use a water-powered generator at night.
Called pump hydro such a scheme is being built in the Snowys
We can and do
use solar energy to grow trees and such that can be burned to power
electric generators. Fossil fuel is just wood that has been stored a
very long time before we burn it to release the stored solar power.
It's not a word game. Energy stored in batteries literally is
not solar energy even if electricity generated from solar panels
is used to charge the batteries. If you're going to play THAT
word game, quite literally every energy source in use is stored
solar energy. If that's the game you want to play, hydro power
is stored solar power. Wind power is stored solar power, Energy
from burning any sort of fuel is stored solar power. Muscle power
is stored solar power. Geothermal is stored solar power. Even
nuclear is stored solar power. So if THAT's how you play the
game, every house on the planet is totally solar.
So lets stick to the renewable forms of this solar energy as
I'm doing with my solar powered farm
On 28/09/2021 4:39 pm, Just Wondering wrote:
On 9/27/2021 8:53 PM, Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 11:15 am, Just Wondering wrote:
On 9/27/2021 3:25 PM, Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 7:12 am, Just Wondering wrote:
On 9/27/2021 2:15 PM, Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 5:57 am, contact wrote:
When the wind stops blowing, the electricity stops flowing!
Interesting my house is totally solar and I have power at night. >>>>>>> Go figure
We all figure that either "my house is totally solar" or "I have
power at night" is a lie, because they can't both be true.
That is the reality. Come on have a think about how this reality is
achieved.
The reality is probably that you uses solar energy when the sun
is shining, and chemical energy in the form of batteries when
solar energy is unavailable.
The reality is that the energy comes from the sun, batteries are a
storage mechanism
If you want to play that game, hydroelectric power is only a
storage mechanism for solar energy. Wind energy is only a
storage machanism for solar energy. Burning anything (wood,
coal, oil, natural gas, ethanol, whatever) is only a storage
mechanism for solar energy. From science's explanation of how
suns and planets are formed, even nuclear energy is only a
storage mechanism for solar energy.
Storage batteries = NOT "totally solar".
Yes they are as that is what charges them
Any source of electricity will charge batteries. I charge the
batteries in my wireless computer mouse by plugging the mouse
into a USB port, which draws power from my computer which is
plugged into an outlet that receives power from my friendly
regional electric utility, which gets its electricity from
who knows where. Battery power is not solar power no matter
how much you want to rationalize it.>
Of course solar is the source of power for the batteries. Thanks for a
new but inane argument
Storage batteries = chemical energy -> electrical energy. They don't
postpone the use of solar energy, they use electrical
energy which can be from any source to make a chemical reaction.
When you use a battery, another chemical reaction that results
in the release of electrical energy. None of those processes
involve solar energy.
I'll give it a go and disconnect my solar panels from the batteries
and see how long this chemical reaction lasts, actually I know it
will be 5 days.
During those five days you will get your electricity from a
chemical reaction, not from the sun.
A chemical reaction that got it's power from being recharged by the sun
Than I will recharge them from the sun.
Or you could recharge your batteries from a gas-powered generator,
or you could hook up a car generator to a windmill and use the wind
to charge your batteries,
Are wind power is an excellent renewable energy source
or connect that generator to a stationary
bicycle and pedal away until your batteries are charged.
My emergency radio works like that
However you charge your batteries, when you draw power from
those batteries it is not solar power, it is chemical energy.
If you're happy with that inanity so be it
"Just Wondering" wrote in message news:D6z4J.85358$Dr.57485@fx40.iad...
It sounds like you use electricity from photovoltaic cells during
the day to charge your batteries. You then use electricity from
discharging your batteries when solar energy is not available.
That latter use is chemical energy, not solar energy.
Read my other posts on this subject. If you want to play the game
of "my batteries are stored solar power", then every bloody energy
source on the planet, from horse-drawn carts to burning wood or
ethanol or coal to wind and hydro power to nuclear power is also
stored solar power.
-------------------
Your attempted redefinition of "total solar" would render the term
useless. You are entitled to your opinion, and we to ours.
"Just Wondering" wrote in message news:_1u4J.58228$2Q_3.31792@fx35.iad...
On 9/27/2021 4:31 PM, Dechucka wrote:
Not sure solar power stored in a battery is a "black box" model. The
system I have can obviously be scaled up, Aus currently has 7000
megawatts of battery storage to put into the grid.
Then you don't understand the formal logic of scientific modeling. The
Black Box can include internal storage of inputs.
Battery storage is chemical energy not solar energy.
That's irrelevant if the source of that energy is solar.
You can call it whatever you please, but these systems are really
defined by the scientists and engineers who design and build them.
Solar panels without either storage or a sink like the grid to receive
the energy are nearly useless, because almost all real-world loads are
so variable.
I've been experimenting with immediate use of solar power in a freezer
with a DC compressor. In the middle of the day solar panel output is
enough to operate the compressor, and the Watt meter on the input to the attached AC power supply reads zero.
When the compressor is off the solar current diverts to float charging
the freezer's backup battery and topping off other spares. Yesterday I checked the battery electrolyte and confirmed that the float voltage is enough to maintain a full charge but below the gassing level. This is
how a UPS or exit light maintains its lead-acid battery, with the disadvantage that after an outage a full recharge at the float voltage
can take a day or more, as indicated by the trickle charging current.
When solar current isn't enough the compressor draws the rest from the
AC supply, shown by the power division on their Watt meters, or if the
grid fails it draws from the battery.
This meter keeps track of energy into and out of the battery: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32785159924.html
and this one monitors power drawn from the the AC line: https://www.aliexpress.com/cheap/cheap-pzem-061.html
This PZEM-031 reads DC solar power but it doesn't like the low voltages
at dawn and dusk so I added a relay that protects it from seeing less
than 10V:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32413784036.html
That's as close as I get to using all available solar power as it is produced.
The other application for immediate use of solar power is heating water,
but I keep my low voltage solar circuits as isolated from the grid as possible for safety. Otherwise it's just a theoretical exercise, not a practical home power system.
You can't intelligently discuss energy without an understanding of thermodynamics and energy quality, which concerns how easily it can be transformed between forms such as the heat of a fire vs electricity or
shaft rotation. Unfortunately the non-technical general public doesn't
seem to appreciate the distinction between a primary source of energy
like sunlight and the secondary means of storing and distributing it,
like hydrogen or electricity. https://stem.guide/topic/primary-resources-and-secondary-energy/
"Totally Solar" refers to the primary source. Secondary conversions
don't matter.
On 9/27/2021 11:56 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
On 9/27/2021 8:30 PM, Bob F wrote:
On 9/27/2021 6:17 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
On 9/27/2021 5:00 PM, Bob F wrote:
On 9/27/2021 2:12 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
On 9/27/2021 2:15 PM, Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 5:57 am, contact wrote:
When the wind stops blowing, the electricity stops flowing!
Interesting my house is totally solar and I have power at night. >>>>>>> Go figure
We all figure that either "my house is totally solar" or "I have
power at night" is a lie, because they can't both be true.
No, we do not.
Yes, they can.
Explain how you get totally solar energy when the sun
is below the horizon.
I don't need to play your word games. The energy is solar, with some
stored in batteries for later use. It is not hydro, it is not fossil
fuel, it is solar.
You could use excess solar power during the day to pump water into an
uphill pond and use a water-powered generator at night. We can and do
use solar energy to grow trees and such that can be burned to power
electric generators. Fossil fuel is just wood that has been stored a
very long time before we burn it to release the stored solar power.
It's not a word game. Energy stored in batteries literally is
not solar energy even if electricity generated from solar panels
is used to charge the batteries. If you're going to play THAT
word game, quite literally every energy source in use is stored
solar energy. If that's the game you want to play, hydro power
is stored solar power. Wind power is stored solar power, Energy
from burning any sort of fuel is stored solar power. Muscle power
is stored solar power. Geothermal is stored solar power. Even
nuclear is stored solar power. So if THAT's how you play the
game, every house on the planet is totally solar.
The significant issue is that the solar house with batteries is getting
its energy from the sun, not from fossil fuel, reducing it's damage to
the climate from CO2 releases. If it charged the batteries from a coal
power plant, that would not be the case.
A solar heated house stores thermal energy in thermal mass for use
overnight. A solar powered house can similarly store energy in electric batteries, or flywheels. They are both solar.
But of course, common sense seems to mean nothing to you. You
just have to be "right".
"Scout" wrote in message news:siv7tl$t50$7@dont-email.me...
"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote in message news:sitfja$nb7$1@dont-email.me...
"Just Wondering" wrote in message news:Ssq4J.17545$IO1.13914@fx19.iad...
On 9/27/2021 2:15 PM, Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 5:57 am, contact wrote:
When the wind stops blowing, the electricity stops flowing!
Interesting my house is totally solar and I have power at night. Go
figure
We all figure that either "my house is totally solar" or "I have
power at night" is a lie, because they can't both be true.
-----------------------
"Totally solar" is a "black box" model which means that solar is your
only source of electricity, it can include storage batteries to postpone
the use of that electricity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_box
Average consumption 30 kilowatthours (kWh).
Figure 16 hours of storage as a bare minimum
100Ahr battery = 600 wh
Minimum required 40 batteries.
Cost about $8000 just for the batteries.
Another $14,000 for the solar system
Figure about $15,000 for installation.
More for the lost floor space, or building to hold all this.
And that only gets you through the day. If you don't have 8 hours of full charge... overcast, raining, snow, etc then your battery capacity requirements will go up drastically,.
Then we need to calculate the pollution produced for all that hardware,
the
regular replacement of the batteries, panels and systems over a lifetime
and
then figure out if you're actually cutting emissions... or just spreading
it
around.
Seems to me to be a lot of money and issues for a dubious reduction in pollution.
--------------------------
My backup system isn't nearly that large or expensive, and my normal consumption is under 5KWH per day.
The backup supports a compact refrigerator and small freezer plus one or
two laptops for cellular Internet and antenna television. For meals I run
a 2KW inverter generator, or use the wood stove since most long outages
here are from winter ice storms. Laundry requires a 3KW generator and kick-starting by releasing the old Maytag's belt tension with my foot on
the motor. I freeze-dry the laundry on an outdoor clothes line, typically within the same day since winter humidity is very low.
"Scout" wrote in message news:siv7tl$t50$8@dont-email.me...
....
Are cargo ships from China now equipped with solar powered engines?
....
---------------------
Be careful what you wish for, you may get it and suffer the consequences. https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/energy/a34272175/wind-powered-sailboat-cargo-shipping-future/
The better wooden sailing ships could do 15 knots, the best over 20.
On 9/28/2021 7:02 AM, Scout wrote:
"Bob F" <bobnospam@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:situno$el1$1@dont-email.me...
On 9/27/2021 6:17 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
On 9/27/2021 5:00 PM, Bob F wrote:
On 9/27/2021 2:12 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
On 9/27/2021 2:15 PM, Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 5:57 am, contact wrote:
When the wind stops blowing, the electricity stops flowing!
Interesting my house is totally solar and I have power at night. Go >>>>>>> figure
We all figure that either "my house is totally solar" or "I have
power at night" is a lie, because they can't both be true.
No, we do not.
Yes, they can.
Explain how you get totally solar energy when the sun
is below the horizon.
I don't need to play your word games. The energy is solar, with some
stored in batteries for later use. It is not hydro, it is not fossil
fuel, it is solar.
<Raises Hand>
Can you tell me how you insure that the energy used to produce every
component of the system, including transportation of such, used 100%
solar power?
Are cargo ships from China now equipped with solar powered engines?
Are you aware that the primary source of the overwhelming bulk of solar
equipment is from the biggest source of emissions and pollution on the
planet?
If you're just pushing the pollution to somewhere you don't see it, does
that really change anything?
Name a few power sources that do not have those costs.
snip
If battery power is solar power, so is hydro power. But neither
is what people mean when they say "solar power".
So you know what is meant and I know what is meant so why your inane
arguing?
snip
If you're happy with that inanity so be it
I acknowledge the science. So you think science is inane. Got it.
If aknowledge science you'll know all about the GHG properties of
certain molecules
On 9/28/2021 2:44 PM, Dechucka wrote:
snip
If battery power is solar power, so is hydro power. But neither
is what people mean when they say "solar power".
So you know what is meant and I know what is meant so why your inane
arguing?
What you mean is that battery power is solar power. What I mean
is that it is not. What I mean is science.
What you mean requires
that you ignore science.
So you're happy playing words games. I'm happy reducing GHG production
You're happy trying to change the subject when you can't refute
me on the facts.
On 29/09/2021 7:03 am, Just Wondering wrote:
On 9/28/2021 2:44 PM, Dechucka wrote:
snip
If battery power is solar power, so is hydro power. But neither
is what people mean when they say "solar power".
So you know what is meant and I know what is meant so why your inane
arguing?
What you mean is that battery power is solar power. What I mean
is that it is not. What I mean is science.
I'm sure you've kept up with the science as it's been known since the
1800s. You'll also understand that these molecules don't change their properties from the lab to the atmosphere.
I'll do my bit while at the same time saving money and ensuring
reliability esp during bush-fires and other natural disasters
What you mean requires
that you ignore science.
So you're happy playing words games. I'm happy reducing GHG production
"Scout" wrote in message news:sivvh6$r3f$3@dont-email.me...
"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote in message
...
<yawn> do you really expect people to make this change?
--------------------
Not at all, but I hope they understand the personal consequences of what
they demand of others
"Scout" wrote in message news:sivvh6$r3f$3@dont-email.me...
"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote in message
...
<yawn> do you really expect people to make this change?
--------------------
Not at all, but I hope they understand the personal consequences of what
they demand of others
"Scout" wrote in message news:sj1olo$uka$1@dont-email.me...
"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote in message news:sj00nr$4jd$1@dont-email.me...
"Scout" wrote in message news:sivvh6$r3f$3@dont-email.me...
"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote in message
...
<yawn> do you really expect people to make this change?
--------------------
Not at all, but I hope they understand the personal consequences of
what they demand of others
What personal consequences?
Do what they want to do, how they want to do it?
Yea, that's gotta be a bummer
---------------------
California leads the way with high time-of-use electric rates and outages.
On 28/09/2021 7:12 am, Just Wondering wrote:
On 9/27/2021 2:15 PM, Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 5:57 am, contact wrote:
When the wind stops blowing, the electricity stops flowing!
Interesting my house is totally solar and I have power at night.
Go figure
We all figure that either "my house is totally solar" or "I have
power at night" is a lie, because they can't both be true.
That is the reality. Come on have a think about how this reality is
achieved.
Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 7:12 am, Just Wondering wrote:
On 9/27/2021 2:15 PM, Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 5:57 am, contact wrote:
When the wind stops blowing, the electricity stops flowing!
Interesting my house is totally solar and I have power at night.
Go figure
We all figure that either "my house is totally solar" or "I have
power at night" is a lie, because they can't both be true.
That is the reality. Come on have a think about how this reality is
achieved.
Easy, big backup power
"cshenk" wrote in message news:QemcnYnT1KJXvwH4nZ2dnZfqnPudnZ2d@giganews.com...
Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 7:12 am, Just Wondering wrote:
On 9/27/2021 2:15 PM, Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 5:57 am, contact wrote:
When the wind stops blowing, the electricity stops flowing!
Interesting my house is totally solar and I have power at night.
Go figure
We all figure that either "my house is totally solar" or "I have
power at night" is a lie, because they can't both be true.
That is the reality. Come on have a think about how this reality is achieved.
Easy, big backup power and located where sun is the norm, clouds and
rain not much so.
PS: testing the waters with an older 2021 post.
-------------------------
JW was playing a lawyer's word game with what "solar" means,
discounting solar-derived electricity stored chemically in batteries,
until I pointed out that his strict literal definition would also
require solar energy to be stored and used as photons instead of
converted to electricity.
... I opted to not have battery backup at my place. Power
outages are rare and seldom more than an hour.
"cshenk" wrote in message news:QemcnYnT1KJXvwH4nZ2dnZfqnPudnZ2d@giganews.com...
Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 7:12 am, Just Wondering wrote:
On 9/27/2021 2:15 PM, Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 5:57 am, contact wrote:
When the wind stops blowing, the electricity stops flowing!
Interesting my house is totally solar and I have power at night.
Go figure
We all figure that either "my house is totally solar" or "I have
power at night" is a lie, because they can't both be true.
That is the reality. Come on have a think about how this reality is
achieved.
Easy, big backup power and located where sun is the norm, clouds and
rain not much so.
PS: testing the waters with an older 2021 post.
-------------------------
JW was playing a lawyer's word game with what "solar" means, discounting solar-derived electricity stored chemically in batteries, until I
pointed out that his strict literal definition would also require solar energy to be stored and used as photons instead of converted to
electricity.
On 1/8/2024 11:20 AM, cshenk wrote:
... I opted to not have battery backup at my place. Power
outages are rare and seldom more than an hour.
Certainly, until that's no longer true. It's like saying "I opted
not to have a fire extinguisher at home. Home fires are rare and
are seldom catastrophic." It's like saying "I don't have car
liability insurance. I don't get in accidents, and if I did they
would be minor ones and not my fault." It's like saying "I don't
have any food storage. Food shortages at my local grocery are rare
and seldom last long." No, you don't need an alternate home power
source, or a fire extinguisher, or liability insurance, or food
storage, or take any other risk-avoidance or emergency prepared
measures. Until you do, and if you don't have it by then it will be
too late.
"Just Wondering" wrote in message
news:0aZmN.95241$q3F7.60338@fx45.iad...
On 1/8/2024 11:20 AM, cshenk wrote:
... I opted to not have battery backup at my place. Power
outages are rare and seldom more than an hour.
Certainly, until that's no longer true. It's like saying "I opted
not to have a fire extinguisher at home. Home fires are rare and
are seldom catastrophic." (snips)
------------------------------
Covid showed that we should increase our food storage, so I added a
12V DC fridge+freezer that runs on solar/battery/grid/generator
power, an Alpicool T60. Ice and wind storm power outages here have
lasted over a week.
"Scout" wrote in message news:unhfak$1koaa$2@dont-email.me...
Ok.. and how much are you going to spend on getting and maintaining such a system?
How large will it need to be to charge your EV each day as well?
So now you're effectively paying twice as much for electricity.. what was
the benefit again?
---------------------------------
The break-even point to operate my system is between $0.20 and $0.30 per
KWH, depending on claimed vs realized battery life, which in turn depends
on how much I can squeeze from them with monitoring and careful
maintenance.
Lead-acids have lasted me up to 15 years. It will never repay its capital cost (which was less than a riding mower) but neither will a backup generator, they are for independent reliability rather than economics.
"Just Wondering" wrote in message
news:z2ZmN.171077$7sbb.78501@fx16.iad...
If you want to be pedantic, all power is ultimately gravity power.
I was going to say all power is ultimately solar, but even the
fusion that powers stars (and creates the radioactive metals used
in nuclear power) is the result of gravity compressing the star's
contents. But that's not what anybody normally means when talking
about solar.
--------------------------
I firmly do NOT want to be pedantic, it hinders analyzing and solving problems. Although I have a science degree that covered
Thermodynamics and several years of Physics I "gravitated' to
practical engineering, expanding the scribbled dreams of Ph.D.
theoreticians into fleshed-out designs, building them and making them
work. Do you remember me as jsw@mitre.org?
"cshenk" <cshenk@virginia-beach.net> wrote in message news:QemcnYnT1KJXvwH4nZ2dnZfqnPudnZ2d@giganews.com...
Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 7:12 am, Just Wondering wrote:
On 9/27/2021 2:15 PM, Dechucka wrote:
On 28/09/2021 5:57 am, contact wrote:
When the wind stops blowing, the electricity stops flowing!
Interesting my house is totally solar and I have power at night.
Go figure
We all figure that either "my house is totally solar" or "I have
power at night" is a lie, because they can't both be true.
That is the reality. Come on have a think about how this reality
is achieved.
Easy, big backup power
Ok.. and how much are you going to spend on getting and maintaining
such a system?
How large will it need to be to charge your EV each day as well?
So now you're effectively paying twice as much for electricity.. what
was the benefit again?
Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Just Wondering" wrote in message
news:0aZmN.95241$q3F7.60338@fx45.iad...
On 1/8/2024 11:20 AM, cshenk wrote:
Certainly, until that's no longer true. It's like saying "I opted
... I opted to not have battery backup at my place. Power
outages are rare and seldom more than an hour.
not to have a fire extinguisher at home. Home fires are rare and
are seldom catastrophic." (snips)
------------------------------
Covid showed that we should increase our food storage, so I added a
12V DC fridge+freezer that runs on solar/battery/grid/generator
power, an Alpicool T60. Ice and wind storm power outages here have
lasted over a week.
Mom was divorced and Dad didn't pay the 51$ child support. She always
put a bit of shelf stable foods aside, having been raised in the
depression then the WWII years of rationing. I've always done that
too. We were fine. It helped a LOT that I'm a scratch cook.
She did a fine job raising us 3. None of us experienced more than a
slight frown if we had to swap a planned dish over lack of supplies
during the covid hoarding.
The money just wasn't there to go backups but after I pay off the last
of the solar, I'll look at 1 battery to add to it.
On 1/8/2024 7:35 PM, cshenk wrote:
Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Just Wondering" wrote in message news:0aZmN.95241$q3F7.60338@fx45.iad...
On 1/8/2024 11:20 AM, cshenk wrote:
... I opted to not have battery backup at my place. Power
outages are rare and seldom more than an hour.
The money just wasn't there to go backups but after I pay off the
last of the solar, I'll look at 1 battery to add to it.
OK. "I don't have it yet because I can't afford it yet"
is different from "I opted not to."
"cshenk" wrote in message news:Gx-cnQxsw_2RLAH4nZ2dnZfqn_GdnZ2d@giganews.com...
Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Just Wondering" wrote in message
news:0aZmN.95241$q3F7.60338@fx45.iad...
...
The money just wasn't there to go backups but after I pay off the last
of the solar, I'll look at 1 battery to add to it.
----------------------
If you have commercially installed grid-tied solar adding a battery
may not be possible and would be no help during an outage, since the controller shuts down when grid power fails, to prevent back-feeding
that could shock line workers. The grid serves as your storage, with
any excess of your output over your consumption recorded by the
two-way electric meter.
The simple and safe, though not cheapest, backup is a packaged power
station such as a Jackery. If you are experienced in the design and construction of electrical equipment a comparable system can be
assembled from single-purpose modules for about half or less the
cost.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BX8S2VJ5/ref=nav_signin?sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmF tZT1zcF9ocXBfc2hhcmVk&th=1 https://www.bestekdirect.com/bestek-500W-power-inverter
"cshenk" wrote in message news:S_WdnbFYGq2w_AD4nZ2dnZfqnPednZ2d@giganews.com...
One of the troubles here that I have, is not a 'bad one' to have. My
science background is primarily 'biology realm' with some chemistry
allowed to lay fallow after my attempt to put myself through college.
I'm probably 'undereducated' by the standards of some here for the
types of knowledge background.
Grin, should be fun to drop a 'silly Sally' into the mix! My skills
are SQL programming, Navy Education and Training, heavy 'Data
analysis' and directing slim resources for maximum benefit to force generation (getting the right trained sailor to the right ship when
needed).
Spent some time post 26year Navy career (E8) in contracting services
and Mitre rings a bell though I never worked for them. I was mostly
CSC then moved to GS-13(NETC then NAVIFOR).
------------------------
Mitre worked more with the Air Force, FAA et al. It was structured
as a private non-profit so we didn't have GS grades, or much
bureaucratic interference.
That's a pretty solid resume. I benefitted from someone getting the
right trained soldier to where he was needed. I had listed French and
German on the "dream sheet" requesting an assignment and was sent to
Germany instead of Vietnam. I loved being there and driving around
the countryside between our field communications sites but many
Americans didn't, to the extent of reenlisting to go back to Saigon.
In rural areas they didn't speak English and hadn't been contaminated
by us.
I was a hardware guy with programming experience mainly limited to
low level machine control. Being cooped up alone in the lab like
Drosselmeyer the toymaker definitely isn't for everyone. Dan
Aykroyd's character in Spies Like Us was close to my reality. His
office was in the boiler room, mine was beside it, and like him I
know a little Russian and KGB = Komitet Gosudarstvennoy Bezopasnosti.
You could also take a bath if a hail storm comes through 3 years
later and wipes out 90% of your panels.. How long would it then take
to even think of breaking even?
Scout wrote:
You could also take a bath if a hail storm comes through 3 years
later and wipes out 90% of your panels.. How long would it then take
to even think of breaking even?
Hi Scout. You might want to look up newer stats. Thats the old China
panels.
"cshenk" wrote in message news:4cucnah3_8rNJgP4nZ2dnZfqn_GdnZ2d@giganews.com...
Jim Wilkins wrote:
The simple and safe, though not cheapest, backup is a packaged power
station such as a Jackery.
Perfect! I was about to ask for thoughts on the Jackery setups.
"Scout" wrote in message news:unosv3$3109a$1@dont-email.me...
If I can offer a suggestion, instead of a prepacked format. Maybe look at
the boon-docking and camping areas.
Buy a pure sine wave inverter, batteries and charger as individual units,
as
long as high mobility isn't a factor, you can get better and cheaper as individual units and have the ability to customize to exactly the format
you
want, and upgrade as needed based on your needs/wants.. from increasing charging capacity, or going to higher voltages for better efficiencies or different battery tech depending on weight, size, or mobility issues.
Yes, it does take a bit more research and consideration, but all in all
you
will get a system tuned to your preferences at a lower price, and if you should have a failure.. you only have to replace the part that failed. Further you have much more access to replacements when on the road as most
RV and camping outlets will have at least a few options as replacements
for
all of the parts.
So if you're talking a fixed installation for your home, then weight isn't really an option and you can save money and get better capacity choosing options not limited by weight. If you're RVing you may get away with a
much
smaller inverter as often much of the rest can be run directly from DC
thus
eliminating the conversion loses and expense of a larger inverter.
The advantage of the repacked is only simplicity and mobility.
-------------------------------
I briefly covered some of the advantages and disadvantages of that
approach when describing my DIY solar system. To expand, in order to
design one you need a good quantitative understanding of your requirements and to study and understand the capabilities of the separate modules and
how they interact.
Specifically an AC refrigerator draws a starting surge current that may exceed 10 times its run current. You won't find that surge current in its spec sheet.
The inverter, which must be true sine for a fridge or freezer, needs to be >able to supply the brief overload.
Then the cable to the battery and the fuse or circuit breaker has to pass
the 10x higher DC current without an excessive voltage drop that would
fault the inverter.
If the battery is Lithium its protection circuit will have maximum surge
and continuous current ratings which are quite low compared to lead-acid, they often can't serve as vehicle starting batteries.
For my 100Ah Minis it's 100A, or 1200W which is questionable to start a compact refrigerator and likely inadequate for a normal sized one. All
this to keep your beer cold.
The heavy cables from battery to inverter are usually terminated with solderless crimp terminals that interconnect on brass bolts. These
terminals need special large and often expensive crimpers to squeeze them tight enough onto the wire. For safety the cables should be fused which
adds another difficult connection to make.
I've had bad results from the in-line circuit breakers sold for car audio.
The may open at the rated current the first time, then they overheat and
open at lower current. I think the contacts burn. Carling or Blue Sea magnetic breakers are reliable and consistent and have the required DC voltage and current ratings (which house breakers don't) but need an enclosure and punched or drilled mounting panel.
If the battery and inverter aren't fastened together the cables need connectors to allow separate handling, and likely a different expensive crimper.
https://powerwerx.com/anderson-sb-connectors-sb50-50amp
The likely enclosure for a battery is a NOCO or Atwood boat battery box
which doesn't have internal space or ventilation for an inverter, it can
be mounted outside on the cover.
"Scout" wrote in message news:unoo75$309gk$17@dont-email.me...
Actually they were US panels stated to be hail proof, and were less than 4 >>years old.-----
Did your insurance cover the damage?
"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote in message news:unmrdg$2k3bk$1@dont-email.me...
"cshenk" wrote in message news:4cucnah3_8rNJgP4nZ2dnZfqn_GdnZ2d@giganews.com... Jim Wilkins
wrote:
The simple and safe, though not cheapest, backup is a packaged
power station such as a Jackery.
Perfect! I was about to ask for thoughts on the Jackery setups.
If I can offer a suggestion, instead of a prepacked format. Maybe
look at the boon-docking and camping areas.
Buy a pure sine wave inverter, batteries and charger as individual
units, as long as high mobility isn't a factor, you can get better
and cheaper as individual units and have the ability to customize to
exactly the format you want, and upgrade as needed based on your needs/wants.. from increasing charging capacity, or going to higher
voltages for better efficiencies or different battery tech depending
on weight, size, or mobility issues. Yes, it does take a bit more
research and consideration, but all in all you will get a system
tuned to your preferences at a lower price, and if you should have a failure.. you only have to replace the part that failed. Further you
have much more access to replacements when on the road as most RV and
camping outlets will have at least a few options as replacements for
all of the parts.
So if you're talking a fixed installation for your home, then weight
isn't really an option and you can save money and get better capacity choosing options not limited by weight. If you're RVing you may get
away with a much smaller inverter as often much of the rest can be
run directly from DC thus eliminating the conversion loses and
expense of a larger inverter.
The advantage of the repacked is only simplicity and mobility.
"cshenk" wrote in message news:f8KdnXJdAcArXQP4nZ2dnZfqn_WdnZ2d@giganews.com...
Don't be so tied to battery backups. It's not a 'can't afford it yet'
in the way you seem to be pushing. It's 'may add a 4-6 hour unit' to
prevent higher peak hour consumption rates'. With no cut-out switch,
it's only usable when grid is up. The potential jackery backup is for
use during grid down times for basic comfort.
You seem to address this from 'desirement'. This is very different
from my point view which is 'requirement' based.
The math doesn't work out here on 'bang for the buck'. You did catch
that I only produce 92% of my annual needs' right? A honkin' big
backup battery setup would not only never fill, some of it would be
lost whereas I am protected from any loss as it is as that storage is
nown the problem of the grid. I get all of it back with no loss.
---------------------------
I didn't check the details, but this is a very competitive price per
KWH and hopefully a good sign of a continuing downward trend.
Being LiFePO4 it doesn't ever need to fill, the suggested charge
level for maximum life is 60-80%. It or similar could be charged from
120VAC when your rate is low and used when it's high, or saved for
outages, avoiding the expense of new panels and their installation
and wiring.
However the IRS apparently doesn't allow a Form 5695 deduction for
batteries not exclusively charged by alternate energy. I arranged my
system so only the batteries for daily cycling I bought used at a
flea market and didn't claim are charged with a prioritized mix of
solar then grid when solar output is low or uncertain. In clear
weather I switch the grid input off and discharge the battery
overnight. The batteries bought new and claimed are separately solar
charged in clear weather and saved for outage backup.
The most common use of the system is to go on battery when a night
squall line or thunderstorm is predicted, so my electronics are
isolated from the power line.
If you have a secure location like an enclosed deck a Jackery etc
could be charged outdoors from free-standing panels either aimed due
south or occasionally shifted toward the sun. I made fold-out panel
rear supports from 1/2" electrical conduit bent into a V. On clear
days my batteries recharge before noon and the initial 10AM panel aim
is enough. 100W panels are now below $70.
Since I build whatever I want I have no experience with Jackerys or
similar. I do have an old Harbor Freight 5-in-1 power pack refitted
with LiFePO4 but 18Ah (216Wh) won't run much overnight.
"cshenk" <cshenk@virginia-beach.net> wrote in message news:SIednfevasrLUwP4nZ2dnZfqnPudnZ2d@giganews.com...
Scout wrote:
You could also take a bath if a hail storm comes through 3 years
later and wipes out 90% of your panels.. How long would it then
take to even think of breaking even?
Hi Scout. You might want to look up newer stats. Thats the old
China panels.
Actually they were US panels stated to be hail proof, and were less
than 4 years old.
"Scout" wrote in message news:unoo75$309gk$17@dont-email.me...
Actually they were US panels stated to be hail proof, and were less-----
than 4 years old.
Did your insurance cover the damage?
Scout wrote:
"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:unmrdg$2k3bk$1@dont-email.me...
"cshenk" wrote in message
news:4cucnah3_8rNJgP4nZ2dnZfqn_GdnZ2d@giganews.com... Jim Wilkins
wrote:
The simple and safe, though not cheapest, backup is a packaged
power station such as a Jackery.
Perfect! I was about to ask for thoughts on the Jackery setups.
If I can offer a suggestion, instead of a prepacked format. Maybe
look at the boon-docking and camping areas.
Buy a pure sine wave inverter, batteries and charger as individual
units, as long as high mobility isn't a factor, you can get better
and cheaper as individual units and have the ability to customize to
exactly the format you want, and upgrade as needed based on your
needs/wants.. from increasing charging capacity, or going to higher
voltages for better efficiencies or different battery tech depending
on weight, size, or mobility issues. Yes, it does take a bit more
research and consideration, but all in all you will get a system
tuned to your preferences at a lower price, and if you should have a
failure.. you only have to replace the part that failed. Further you
have much more access to replacements when on the road as most RV and
camping outlets will have at least a few options as replacements for
all of the parts.
So if you're talking a fixed installation for your home, then weight
isn't really an option and you can save money and get better capacity
choosing options not limited by weight. If you're RVing you may get
away with a much smaller inverter as often much of the rest can be
run directly from DC thus eliminating the conversion loses and
expense of a larger inverter.
The advantage of the repacked is only simplicity and mobility.
Pre-packed and simplicity is the aim this time. There are others very similar to the Jackery, that I have looked at too. I am (on the
Jackery) replacing an awkward gas/keri backyard portable generator
with something I can just pickup and bring inside and plug on with no
75+ foot cables strung everywhere.
"Scout" wrote in message news:unrbtk$3f6el$1@dont-email.me...
"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote in message
Why would you mount your inverter on the battery box? ---------------------------------
Because having two large heavy items joined only by cables invites
excessive strains on the cable connections.
"Scout" wrote in message news:unrinp$3g7hb$1@dont-email.me...
"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote in message news:unpqp1$35gv5$1@dont-email.me...
"Scout" wrote in message news:unoo75$309gk$17@dont-email.me...
Actually they were US panels stated to be hail proof, and were less than >>>4 years old.-----
Did your insurance cover the damage?
Why would my insurance cover their damages?
--------------------------------
I wouldn't know, that depends on the specific coverage and exclusions in
your homeowners policy.
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