• What's topping this power pole?

    From DaveC@21:1/5 to All on Wed Mar 16 11:55:36 2016
    XPost: sci.electronics.design, alt.engineering.electrical

    http://imgur.com/a/W1Uhz

    Cellular?

    Or...?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@21:1/5 to All on Wed Mar 16 15:00:44 2016
    XPost: sci.electronics.design, alt.engineering.electrical

    On Wed, 16 Mar 2016 11:55:36 -0700, DaveC <not@home.cow> Gave us:

    http://imgur.com/a/W1Uhz

    Cellular?

    Or...?

    Could be "LEO WiFi" or... Is there an airport nearby? Could be a
    locale marker.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From DaveC@21:1/5 to All on Wed Mar 16 12:04:51 2016
    XPost: sci.electronics.design, alt.engineering.electrical

    Could be "LEO WiFi" or... Is there an airport nearby? Could be a
    locale marker.

    Major airport 5 miles. This isn’t directly in the landing path, kinda off
    to one side by a couple of miles.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Martin Riddle@21:1/5 to DaveC on Wed Mar 16 15:13:31 2016
    XPost: sci.electronics.design, alt.engineering.electrical

    On Wed, 16 Mar 2016 11:55:36 -0700, DaveC <not@home.cow> wrote:

    http://imgur.com/a/W1Uhz

    Cellular?

    Or...?

    I see 6 coax cables up there, I'm guessing a Cell tower, with 3 or 6 directional antenna.
    Must be high frequency, but I can't tell the size from the perpective
    of the pictures.

    Cheers

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From rickman@21:1/5 to Martin Riddle on Wed Mar 16 15:26:47 2016
    XPost: sci.electronics.design, alt.engineering.electrical

    On 3/16/2016 3:13 PM, Martin Riddle wrote:
    On Wed, 16 Mar 2016 11:55:36 -0700, DaveC <not@home.cow> wrote:

    http://imgur.com/a/W1Uhz

    Cellular?

    Or...?

    I see 6 coax cables up there, I'm guessing a Cell tower, with 3 or 6 directional antenna.
    Must be high frequency, but I can't tell the size from the perpective
    of the pictures.

    Can you put multiple, directional antennas in an enclosure that small?
    I'd bet if it's cell, it is a single antenna for a micro-cell. But I'm
    not convinced it's cell. The area looks flat, no large buildings - I
    can't see any reason it would need a micro-cell.

    --

    Rick

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Dave Platt@21:1/5 to All on Wed Mar 16 12:42:45 2016
    XPost: sci.electronics.design, alt.engineering.electrical

    http://imgur.com/a/W1Uhz

    Cellular?

    'sa good guess. I see four or five separate feedlines.

    It could be a compact "microcell" with four to six separate
    directional sector antennas, designed for lower visibility. Looks as
    if the actual radios are down in a sub-surface vault.

    I doubt it's VHF or lower-UHF (e.g. police or fire) as stacking that
    many antennas for those bands in close proximity could result in all
    sorts of interference.

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  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@21:1/5 to All on Wed Mar 16 16:13:20 2016
    XPost: sci.electronics.design, alt.engineering.electrical

    On Wed, 16 Mar 2016 12:04:51 -0700, DaveC <not@home.cow> Gave us:

    Could be "LEO WiFi" or... Is there an airport nearby? Could be a
    locale marker.

    Major airport 5 miles. This isn’t directly in the landing path, kinda off
    to one side by a couple of miles.

    Outer marker? Naaahh... They are 75 MHz..

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@21:1/5 to All on Thu Mar 17 02:23:32 2016
    XPost: sci.electronics.design

    On Wed, 16 Mar 2016 19:46:24 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
    Gave us:

    On Wed, 16 Mar 2016 11:55:36 -0700, DaveC <not@home.cow> wrote:

    http://imgur.com/a/W1Uhz

    Cellular?

    Nope. Much too small an antenna. 6 coax cables means 60 degree
    sectors, which makes no sense for a suburban low altitude antenna.
    Cell user driving by would end up having to switch sectors several
    times. It might be DAS except that DAS antennas usually use big fat
    heliax coax cables, not something that looks about the size of RG-6/u.
    It's also not a beacon antenna, wi-fi antenna because of the high loss
    coax, 4.9GHz police communications, or something similar, mostly
    because of the 6 coax cables.

    Could be a diversity array.

    You guys may also have missed that it is not merely the stub on top
    with the coaxes going into it., but the two foot plus pair of sticks
    below it with the little short knobby nipple sticks under it as well.

    Those 6 cable also beg the question of where do they go? Following
    the coax down the pole, it goes into a long conduit, exits temporarily
    just above the power meter, and goes back into a different conduit,
    which disappears into the ground. So, where's the transceiver?
    Certainly not in the antenna, which is much too small. Certainly not
    buried in the concrete sidewalk with no evidence of a utility vault in
    the sidewalk. Even so, the coax cable loss would be too at cm and mm
    wave frequencies.

    However, the killer is the "radome". If you look at the bottom edge >carefully, you'll see that it's very thin, which makes it metal, not >fiberglass. Metal covers make rather poor radomes. The paint color
    is also fairly common for metal covers, but not for radomes.


    Maybe it is modern carbon fiber shell material. If it is a radome it
    cannot be metal. Use some common sense.

    Or...?

    (Insert drum roll please). My guess is that these are RG-6/u or
    RG-11/u CATV coax cables running to various businesses on the street.
    They are terminated with a power divider or possibly an amplifier,
    which might explain the presence of the power meter on the pole.
    Although an odd place to terminate CATV cables, I guess(tm) someone
    did it to keep curious engineers bearing screwdrivers from taking it
    apart.

    The coaxes go into a very large conduit next to the power meter., but
    why a two foot section of the bundle is exposed is a bit confusing.

    Maybe master cable guy Terrell will be man enough to chime in without mouthing off.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Kevin McMurtrie@21:1/5 to DaveC on Wed Mar 16 23:18:35 2016
    XPost: sci.electronics.design, alt.engineering.electrical

    In article
    <0001HW.1C99E3A8000AE8321150483CF@news.eternal-september.org>,
    DaveC <not@home.cow> wrote:

    http://imgur.com/a/W1Uhz

    Cellular?

    Or...?

    It's a short range cell tower common in industrial areas of Silicon
    Valley. Those are likely power and networking cables sticking out.

    I'm not sure what the slender metal box is. Batteries?


    A better question is why you didn't read the sign on the other side of
    the pole?

    https://goo.gl/maps/QxfVEBMdxZE2

    --
    I will not see posts from astraweb, theremailer, dizum, or google
    because they host Usenet flooders.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Jeff Liebermann@21:1/5 to DaveC on Wed Mar 16 19:46:24 2016
    XPost: sci.electronics.design, alt.engineering.electrical

    On Wed, 16 Mar 2016 11:55:36 -0700, DaveC <not@home.cow> wrote:

    http://imgur.com/a/W1Uhz

    Cellular?

    Nope. Much too small an antenna. 6 coax cables means 60 degree
    sectors, which makes no sense for a suburban low altitude antenna.
    Cell user driving by would end up having to switch sectors several
    times. It might be DAS except that DAS antennas usually use big fat
    heliax coax cables, not something that looks about the size of RG-6/u.
    It's also not a beacon antenna, wi-fi antenna because of the high loss
    coax, 4.9GHz police communications, or something similar, mostly
    because of the 6 coax cables.

    Those 6 cable also beg the question of where do they go? Following
    the coax down the pole, it goes into a long conduit, exits temporarily
    just above the power meter, and goes back into a different conduit,
    which disappears into the ground. So, where's the transceiver?
    Certainly not in the antenna, which is much too small. Certainly not
    buried in the concrete sidewalk with no evidence of a utility vault in
    the sidewalk. Even so, the coax cable loss would be too at cm and mm
    wave frequencies.

    However, the killer is the "radome". If you look at the bottom edge
    carefully, you'll see that it's very thin, which makes it metal, not fiberglass. Metal covers make rather poor radomes. The paint color
    is also fairly common for metal covers, but not for radomes.

    Or...?

    (Insert drum roll please). My guess is that these are RG-6/u or
    RG-11/u CATV coax cables running to various businesses on the street.
    They are terminated with a power divider or possibly an amplifier,
    which might explain the presence of the power meter on the pole.
    Although an odd place to terminate CATV cables, I guess(tm) someone
    did it to keep curious engineers bearing screwdrivers from taking it
    apart.

    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@21:1/5 to All on Thu Mar 17 02:36:21 2016
    XPost: sci.electronics.design

    On Wed, 16 Mar 2016 11:55:36 -0700, DaveC <not@home.cow> Gave us:

    http://imgur.com/a/W1Uhz

    Cellular?

    Or...?

    How many clicked on the camel toe pic on the sidebar tagged "psych"?

    I did not, but I am trying to guess what it is. I know it is NOT
    "pussy".

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From DaveC@21:1/5 to All on Thu Mar 17 00:47:38 2016
    XPost: sci.electronics.design, alt.engineering.electrical

    It's a short range cell tower common in industrial areas of Silicon
    Valley. Those are likely power and networking cables sticking out.

    http://tinyurl.com/jpfk3l6

    Hmm...

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  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@21:1/5 to All on Thu Mar 17 11:11:01 2016
    XPost: sci.electronics.design

    On Thu, 17 Mar 2016 08:07:45 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
    Gave us:

    Very nicely done. Nothing like that in Santa Cruz yet. I have my
    doubts that anyone would install a 60 degree per sector antenna that
    small with 6 very long coax cables possibly going to a nearby
    building, but it's possible. The RF hazard sign is the clincher.
    However, what is inside the 4 boxes hanging from the pole? Telco
    backhaul?

    Could also be non-std comms for the local transit company.

    In SD are the rail line and bus line had repeaters all over the place.

    It was called something or other 'mesh'.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Jeff Liebermann@21:1/5 to mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us on Thu Mar 17 08:07:45 2016
    XPost: sci.electronics.design, alt.engineering.electrical

    On Wed, 16 Mar 2016 23:18:35 -0700, Kevin McMurtrie
    <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> wrote:

    In article
    <0001HW.1C99E3A8000AE8321150483CF@news.eternal-september.org>,
    DaveC <not@home.cow> wrote:

    http://imgur.com/a/W1Uhz

    Cellular?

    Or...?

    It's a short range cell tower common in industrial areas of Silicon
    Valley. Those are likely power and networking cables sticking out.

    I'm not sure what the slender metal box is. Batteries?


    A better question is why you didn't read the sign on the other side of
    the pole?

    https://goo.gl/maps/QxfVEBMdxZE2

    Very nicely done. Nothing like that in Santa Cruz yet. I have my
    doubts that anyone would install a 60 degree per sector antenna that
    small with 6 very long coax cables possibly going to a nearby
    building, but it's possible. The RF hazard sign is the clincher.
    However, what is inside the 4 boxes hanging from the pole? Telco
    backhaul?

    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Jeff Liebermann@21:1/5 to DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org on Thu Mar 17 09:12:56 2016
    XPost: sci.electronics.design

    On Thu, 17 Mar 2016 11:11:01 -0400, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:

    On Thu, 17 Mar 2016 08:07:45 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
    Gave us:

    Very nicely done. Nothing like that in Santa Cruz yet. I have my
    doubts that anyone would install a 60 degree per sector antenna that
    small with 6 very long coax cables possibly going to a nearby
    building, but it's possible. The RF hazard sign is the clincher.
    However, what is inside the 4 boxes hanging from the pole? Telco
    backhaul?

    Could also be non-std comms for the local transit company.

    With six coax cables and an equal number of antennas? I don't think
    so. However, I might be wrong about the 60 degree sectors. It could
    be 120 degree sectors, with two antennas per sector, one vertically
    polarized, the other horizontal for MIMO. Or maybe 3 different
    service providers sharing the same pole as in DAS.

    These are what I'm used to seeing for small cell antennas: <https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=small+cell+antenna>
    Note that they're better looking, usually side mounted, and larger. I
    used to live off Meridian in San Jose. Maybe I'll give it a visit and
    get a closer look at the antenna. I can't believe the shoddy
    installation.

    In SD are the rail line and bus line had repeaters all over the place.

    Yeah, but they run VHF (150MHz) and UHF (460MHz) systems, which use
    bigger antennas.

    It was called something or other 'mesh'.

    I hate mesh networks (for wi-fi). Details on demand.
    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From mixed nuts@21:1/5 to DaveC on Thu Mar 17 12:36:38 2016
    XPost: sci.electronics.design, alt.engineering.electrical

    On 3/16/2016 2:55 PM, DaveC wrote:
    http://imgur.com/a/W1Uhz

    Cellular?

    Or...?

    Is it a Comcast (or some other) neighborhood hotspot? There's one at
    the end of my street - not at the top of the pole and not so many wires
    but it's similar in appearance.

    See if it's on the map:

    http://hotspots.wifi.xfinity.com/

    --
    Grizzly H.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From DaveC@21:1/5 to All on Thu Mar 17 10:12:42 2016
    XPost: sci.electronics.design, alt.engineering.electrical

    Is it a Comcast (or some other) neighborhood hotspot? There's one at
    the end of my street - not at the top of the pole and not so many wires
    but it's similar in appearance.

    See if it's on the map:

    http://hotspots.wifi.xfinity.com/


    Looks like you may have nailed it Griz:

    http://imgur.com/62H2ZPZ

    Verizon wifi.

    That’s the exact location.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Neon John@21:1/5 to All on Thu Mar 17 13:26:52 2016
    XPost: sci.electronics.design, alt.engineering.electrical

    On Wed, 16 Mar 2016 19:46:24 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
    wrote:


    (Insert drum roll please). My guess is that these are RG-6/u or
    RG-11/u CATV coax cables running to various businesses on the street.
    They are terminated with a power divider or possibly an amplifier,
    which might explain the presence of the power meter on the pole.
    Although an odd place to terminate CATV cables, I guess(tm) someone
    did it to keep curious engineers bearing screwdrivers from taking it
    apart.

    You may be correct but I doubt it. I've seen that radome before and
    my guess is that it's part of a mesh-based automatic meter reading
    network. or AMI (automatic metering infrastructure).

    If it is a mesh node then it's most likely just a frequency translator
    with the "box" being somewhere out of the photograph.

    John
    John DeArmond
    http://www.neon-john.com
    http://www.tnduction.com
    Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
    See website for email address

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Neon John@21:1/5 to All on Thu Mar 17 13:33:49 2016
    XPost: sci.electronics.design, alt.engineering.electrical

    On Wed, 16 Mar 2016 23:18:35 -0700, Kevin McMurtrie
    A better question is why you didn't read the sign on the other side of
    the pole?

    https://goo.gl/maps/QxfVEBMdxZE2

    So what does the sign say? Your eyes are a LOT better than mine if
    you can read that.

    John
    John DeArmond
    http://www.neon-john.com
    http://www.tnduction.com
    Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
    See website for email address

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From DaveC@21:1/5 to All on Thu Mar 17 11:03:09 2016
    XPost: sci.electronics.design, alt.engineering.electrical

    https://goo.gl/maps/QxfVEBMdxZE2


    So what does the sign say? Your eyes are a LOT better than mine if
    you can read that.


    Keep reading the posts in this thread. It’s in there...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Jeff Liebermann@21:1/5 to DaveC on Thu Mar 17 13:47:43 2016
    XPost: sci.electronics.design, alt.engineering.electrical

    On Thu, 17 Mar 2016 10:12:42 -0700, DaveC <not@home.cow> wrote:

    Is it a Comcast (or some other) neighborhood hotspot? There's one at
    the end of my street - not at the top of the pole and not so many wires
    but it's similar in appearance.

    See if it's on the map:

    http://hotspots.wifi.xfinity.com/

    Looks like you may have nailed it Griz:
    http://imgur.com/62H2ZPZ
    Verizon wifi.
    That’s the exact location.

    Nope. XfinityWiFi is Comcast. They configure their subscribers
    "gateway" boxes to allow anyone with a Comcast login/password to use
    the bandwidth. They do not install poletop wi-fi repeaters or access
    points. The address shown is Live Wire, which is the Comcast cable
    internet subscriber: <https://www.facebook.com/pages/Live-Wire/1526645927663969>

    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Jeff Liebermann@21:1/5 to DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org on Thu Mar 17 14:38:01 2016
    XPost: sci.electronics.design

    On Thu, 17 Mar 2016 02:23:32 -0400, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:

    Could be a diversity array.

    Diversity works best when the antennas are separated by at least one wavelength. More is better. The radome isn't big enough. Same with
    MIMO unless they're using polarization diversity.

    You guys may also have missed that it is not merely the stub on top
    with the coaxes going into it., but the two foot plus pair of sticks
    below it with the little short knobby nipple sticks under it as well.

    Sorry, but I don't see that.

    Maybe it is modern carbon fiber shell material. If it is a radome it
    cannot be metal. Use some common sense.

    I don't think so. Carbon fiber makes a great RF absorber. Find some
    CF and put it in your microwave oven. Here's a preview: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtyp9arrYuM>

    The coaxes go into a very large conduit next to the power meter., but
    why a two foot section of the bundle is exposed is a bit confusing.

    That's easy. It's a sloppy installation. I don't see a rams head on
    the top pipe, or any manner of water protection on the lower pipe.
    Water will just slither down the coax cables, into the pipe, and fill
    it full of water.



    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  • From DaveC@21:1/5 to All on Mon Mar 21 23:28:38 2016
    XPost: sci.electronics.design

    You guys may also have missed that it is not merely the stub on top
    with the coaxes going into it., but the two foot plus pair of sticks
    below it with the little short knobby nipple sticks under it as well.

    There is a stick of lumber (8x8 inch?) stubbed atop the pole that supports
    the antenna assembly. The 2 pegs look like foot pegs for a service tech’s boots.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Jeff Liebermann@21:1/5 to Neon John on Thu Mar 17 14:24:01 2016
    XPost: sci.electronics.design, alt.engineering.electrical

    On Thu, 17 Mar 2016 13:26:52 -0400, Neon John <no@never.com> wrote:

    On Wed, 16 Mar 2016 19:46:24 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
    wrote:


    (Insert drum roll please). My guess is that these are RG-6/u or
    RG-11/u CATV coax cables running to various businesses on the street.
    They are terminated with a power divider or possibly an amplifier,
    which might explain the presence of the power meter on the pole.
    Although an odd place to terminate CATV cables, I guess(tm) someone
    did it to keep curious engineers bearing screwdrivers from taking it
    apart.

    You may be correct but I doubt it. I've seen that radome before and
    my guess is that it's part of a mesh-based automatic meter reading
    network. or AMI (automatic metering infrastructure).

    Mesh networks usually use omnidirectional antennas. Put a directional
    antenna on a mesh and it will only work in that direction. There are
    some 120 degree sectorized panels, which when combined in threes,
    forms an omni. These are also use to monopolize all 3 non-overlapping
    2.4GHz wi-fi channels (1, 6, and 11). The 6 coaxes might be two
    polarizations per panel, times 3 antennas.

    Just to complexicate things, Alvarion sells a similar system, where
    the RG-6/u coaxes feed RF at about 70Mhz(?) and up/down convert
    to/from the desired 2.4GHz channel in the antenna. However, they use
    much nicer looking and larger sector antenna.

    I found this DAS (distributed antenna system) install that looks
    somewhat like the San Jose photo: <https://medium.com/@omarmasry/a-brave-new-world-for-cell-antennas-in-california-39d864a876d4#.gs9vmv58o>
    The antenna radome is the same color and about the same size: <https://d262ilb51hltx0.cloudfront.net/max/800/1*cdLeD_3j-YsgcqYUgPKmKg.png> and the battery pile looks something like the one in the San Jose
    photo: <https://d262ilb51hltx0.cloudfront.net/max/800/1*k3vMkUyxpzIxv7g-Z-Rh3A.png> but with only 2 coax cables and a much neater installation.

    PG&E has two types of smartmeter (meter reading) systems. The
    electric meter system runs on 900MHz FHSS (frequency hopping spread
    spectrum) in the form of a mesh network. There are a few pole top
    access points which transition the data from RF to a wire line or
    fiber backhaul. The San Jose photo might be one of these systems as
    60 degree sectors would allow for considerable frequency reuse, which
    would be very useful as the traffic tends to increase substantially
    near the wired access points. The natural gas system runs on about
    162Mhz(?) as NBFM (narrow band FM) and is also a mesh. The antennas
    on the pole top access points look like larger vertical fiberglass
    base station antennas.

    If it is a mesh node then it's most likely just a frequency translator
    with the "box" being somewhere out of the photograph.

    That's also my question. All 6 coaxes appear to transition from the
    upper long pipe, to a pipe going into the ground. There's no below
    ground equipment vault, so where do they go?

    I can't tell which of these signs is in the Google street view photo: <https://www.google.com/search?q=rf+warning+signs&tbm=isch> <http://www.radhaz.com/store.php/rf-safety-signs>
    This one looks like a possible match: <http://www.radhaz.com/sc_images/products/8X12ATTRFN.jpg>

    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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