• Re: 2N3819 JFET spice model

    From jrg lbt@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 26 11:14:20 2022
    El jueves, 11 de junio de 1998 a las 2:00:00 UTC-5, Stephane TOSTI escribió:
    Jean-Marie Bussat wrote:

    Hello,

    Does anybody have or can tell me where I can find the spice
    model of a 2N3819 model JFET transistor.

    Thanks in advance for your help.
    Regards,

    Jean-Marie

    --
    P.S. Warning the adress in the from field is wrong, please
    use the one below (or remove __NOSPAM__). +---------------------------------------------------------------+
    | Jean-Marie Bussat - Laboratoire d'Annecy-le-vieux de Physique |
    | des Particules - BP 110 - 74941 ANNECY-LE-VIEUX - FRANCE |
    | Email: bus...@lapp.in2p3.fr |
    | Tel: +33 (0)4 50 09 17 65 Fax: +33 (0)4 50 09 89 13 | +---------------------------------------------------------------+
    Voilà
    .model J2N3819 NJF(Beta=1.57m Lambda=4m Vto=-1.954
    + Cgd=1.5p M=.3821 Pb=1 Fc=.5 Cgs=1.5p Is=173.3f
    + N=1 Xti=3 Kf=37.24E-18 Af=1)
    A+ Stef.
    Ooooh! Thanks a lot !!!

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  • From legg@21:1/5 to All on Tue Mar 1 13:50:17 2022
    On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 11:14:20 -0800 (PST), jrg lbt <jrglbt09@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    El jueves, 11 de junio de 1998 a las 2:00:00 UTC-5, Stephane TOSTI escribió: >> Jean-Marie Bussat wrote:

    Hello,

    Does anybody have or can tell me where I can find the spice
    model of a 2N3819 model JFET transistor.

    Thanks in advance for your help.
    Regards,

    Jean-Marie

    --
    P.S. Warning the adress in the from field is wrong, please
    use the one below (or remove __NOSPAM__).
    +---------------------------------------------------------------+
    | Jean-Marie Bussat - Laboratoire d'Annecy-le-vieux de Physique |
    | des Particules - BP 110 - 74941 ANNECY-LE-VIEUX - FRANCE |
    | Email: bus...@lapp.in2p3.fr |
    | Tel: +33 (0)4 50 09 17 65 Fax: +33 (0)4 50 09 89 13 |
    +---------------------------------------------------------------+
    Voilà
    .model J2N3819 NJF(Beta=1.57m Lambda=4m Vto=-1.954
    + Cgd=1.5p M=.3821 Pb=1 Fc=.5 Cgs=1.5p Is=173.3f
    + N=1 Xti=3 Kf=37.24E-18 Af=1)
    A+ Stef.
    Ooooh! Thanks a lot !!!

    from 1998 . . . .

    RL

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  • From Andrea Croci@21:1/5 to legg on Thu Mar 3 18:10:55 2022
    On 01.03.22 19:50, legg wrote:
    On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 11:14:20 -0800 (PST), jrg lbt <jrglbt09@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    El jueves, 11 de junio de 1998 a las 2:00:00 UTC-5, Stephane TOSTI escribió:

    Ooooh! Thanks a lot !!!

    from 1998 . . . .

    RL

    It's never too late to thank your fellow engineers.

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  • From legg@21:1/5 to All on Fri Mar 18 11:13:36 2022
    On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 11:14:20 -0800 (PST), jrg lbt <jrglbt09@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    El jueves, 11 de junio de 1998 a las 2:00:00 UTC-5, Stephane TOSTI escribió: >> Jean-Marie Bussat wrote:

    Hello,

    Does anybody have or can tell me where I can find the spice
    model of a 2N3819 model JFET transistor.

    Thanks in advance for your help.
    Regards,

    Jean-Marie

    --
    P.S. Warning the adress in the from field is wrong, please
    use the one below (or remove __NOSPAM__).
    +---------------------------------------------------------------+
    | Jean-Marie Bussat - Laboratoire d'Annecy-le-vieux de Physique |
    | des Particules - BP 110 - 74941 ANNECY-LE-VIEUX - FRANCE |
    | Email: bus...@lapp.in2p3.fr |
    | Tel: +33 (0)4 50 09 17 65 Fax: +33 (0)4 50 09 89 13 |
    +---------------------------------------------------------------+
    Voilà
    .model J2N3819 NJF(Beta=1.57m Lambda=4m Vto=-1.954
    + Cgd=1.5p M=.3821 Pb=1 Fc=.5 Cgs=1.5p Is=173.3f
    + N=1 Xti=3 Kf=37.24E-18 Af=1)
    A+ Stef.
    Ooooh! Thanks a lot !!!

    .model 2N3819 NJF(Beta=1.304m Betatce=-.5 Rd=1 Rs=1
    + Lambda=2.25m Vto=-3 Vtotc=-2.5m Is=33.57f Isr=322.4f
    + N=1 Nr=2 Xti=3 Alpha=311.7u Vk=243.6 Cgd=1.6p M=.3622
    + Pb=1 Fc=.5 Cgs=2.414p Kf=9.882E-18 Af=1 mfg=Vishay)

    from current LTspice distribution.

    2N3819 was always poorly defined w/r data sheet.
    Many vendors, many wafers, many processes were used.

    RL

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  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to legg on Thu Apr 7 10:29:22 2022
    legg wrote:
    On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 11:14:20 -0800 (PST), jrg lbt <jrglbt09@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    El jueves, 11 de junio de 1998 a las 2:00:00 UTC-5, Stephane TOSTI escribió:
    Jean-Marie Bussat wrote:

    Hello,

    Does anybody have or can tell me where I can find the spice
    model of a 2N3819 model JFET transistor.

    Thanks in advance for your help.
    Regards,

    Jean-Marie

    --
    P.S. Warning the adress in the from field is wrong, please
    use the one below (or remove __NOSPAM__).
    +---------------------------------------------------------------+
    | Jean-Marie Bussat - Laboratoire d'Annecy-le-vieux de Physique |
    | des Particules - BP 110 - 74941 ANNECY-LE-VIEUX - FRANCE |
    | Email: bus...@lapp.in2p3.fr |
    | Tel: +33 (0)4 50 09 17 65 Fax: +33 (0)4 50 09 89 13 |
    +---------------------------------------------------------------+
    Voilà
    .model J2N3819 NJF(Beta=1.57m Lambda=4m Vto=-1.954
    + Cgd=1.5p M=.3821 Pb=1 Fc=.5 Cgs=1.5p Is=173.3f
    + N=1 Xti=3 Kf=37.24E-18 Af=1)
    A+ Stef.
    Ooooh! Thanks a lot !!!

    .model 2N3819 NJF(Beta=1.304m Betatce=-.5 Rd=1 Rs=1
    + Lambda=2.25m Vto=-3 Vtotc=-2.5m Is=33.57f Isr=322.4f
    + N=1 Nr=2 Xti=3 Alpha=311.7u Vk=243.6 Cgd=1.6p M=.3622
    + Pb=1 Fc=.5 Cgs=2.414p Kf=9.882E-18 Af=1 mfg=Vishay)

    from current LTspice distribution.

    2N3819 was always poorly defined w/r data sheet.
    Many vendors, many wafers, many processes were used.


    Yeah, using SPICE on a part with a 3:1 range of pinchoff voltage is
    going to lead to a lot of reasonable-looking wrong answers (my
    least-favorite kind).


    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs


    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs
    Principal Consultant
    ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
    Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
    Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

    http://electrooptical.net
    http://hobbs-eo.com

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  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to legg on Thu Apr 7 11:48:03 2022
    legg wrote:
    On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 11:14:20 -0800 (PST), jrg lbt <jrglbt09@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    El jueves, 11 de junio de 1998 a las 2:00:00 UTC-5, Stephane TOSTI escribió:
    Jean-Marie Bussat wrote:

    Hello,

    Does anybody have or can tell me where I can find the spice
    model of a 2N3819 model JFET transistor.

    Thanks in advance for your help.
    Regards,

    Jean-Marie

    --
    P.S. Warning the adress in the from field is wrong, please
    use the one below (or remove __NOSPAM__).
    +---------------------------------------------------------------+
    | Jean-Marie Bussat - Laboratoire d'Annecy-le-vieux de Physique |
    | des Particules - BP 110 - 74941 ANNECY-LE-VIEUX - FRANCE |
    | Email: bus...@lapp.in2p3.fr |
    | Tel: +33 (0)4 50 09 17 65 Fax: +33 (0)4 50 09 89 13 |
    +---------------------------------------------------------------+
    Voilà
    .model J2N3819 NJF(Beta=1.57m Lambda=4m Vto=-1.954
    + Cgd=1.5p M=.3821 Pb=1 Fc=.5 Cgs=1.5p Is=173.3f
    + N=1 Xti=3 Kf=37.24E-18 Af=1)
    A+ Stef.
    Ooooh! Thanks a lot !!!

    .model 2N3819 NJF(Beta=1.304m Betatce=-.5 Rd=1 Rs=1
    + Lambda=2.25m Vto=-3 Vtotc=-2.5m Is=33.57f Isr=322.4f
    + N=1 Nr=2 Xti=3 Alpha=311.7u Vk=243.6 Cgd=1.6p M=.3622
    + Pb=1 Fc=.5 Cgs=2.414p Kf=9.882E-18 Af=1 mfg=Vishay)

    from current LTspice distribution.

    2N3819 was always poorly defined w/r data sheet.
    Many vendors, many wafers, many processes were used.

    Wow, that's an amazingly crappy part, even for a JFET.

    The Fairchild datasheet shows a 15:1 range of pinchoff voltages, and
    that's from just one vendor.

    Using SPICE on a part like that is going to generate a lot of reasonable-looking wrong answers (my least-favorite kind).

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs


    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs
    Principal Consultant
    ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
    Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
    Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

    http://electrooptical.net
    http://hobbs-eo.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dave Platt@21:1/5 to pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical. on Thu Apr 7 11:39:33 2022
    In article <8ea114da-661e-405f-b96a-3a371d063c76@electrooptical.net>,
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    2N3819 was always poorly defined w/r data sheet.
    Many vendors, many wafers, many processes were used.

    Wow, that's an amazingly crappy part, even for a JFET.

    The Fairchild datasheet shows a 15:1 range of pinchoff voltages, and
    that's from just one vendor.

    I've always thought of 2N3819 as the JFET analog of the 2N3055 BJT.
    It's a convenient part number into which you can reasonably throw a
    whole lot of different JFET products. Test what you fab, and if they
    don't meet tighter specs for a targeted part number, just call them
    2N3819.

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  • From jf0303222@gmail.com@21:1/5 to Phil Hobbs on Thu Apr 7 13:45:36 2022
    On Thursday, April 7, 2022 at 1:30:18 PM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    They must have made them in saucepans. Actual _good_ JFETs, such as the CPH3910, have much much tighter specs (and much lower noise).
    I always assumed it reflected the manufacturing processes available at the time. By that time, the planar diffused process was pretty common, and it was much better controlled than using the grown-junction or alloy-junction processes. Good engineers
    learned how to design circuits that could tolerate the variations in those processes and the variations produced by varying operating temperatures and voltages. Ion implantation produced much tighter ranges, but it was still not a common manufacturing
    process in the mid 1970s.

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  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to Dave Platt on Thu Apr 7 16:30:15 2022
    Dave Platt wrote:
    In article <8ea114da-661e-405f-b96a-3a371d063c76@electrooptical.net>,
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    2N3819 was always poorly defined w/r data sheet.
    Many vendors, many wafers, many processes were used.

    Wow, that's an amazingly crappy part, even for a JFET.

    The Fairchild datasheet shows a 15:1 range of pinchoff voltages, and
    that's from just one vendor.

    I've always thought of 2N3819 as the JFET analog of the 2N3055 BJT.
    It's a convenient part number into which you can reasonably throw a
    whole lot of different JFET products. Test what you fab, and if they
    don't meet tighter specs for a targeted part number, just call them
    2N3819.


    They must have made them in saucepans. Actual _good_ JFETs, such as the CPH3910, have much much tighter specs (and much lower noise).

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs
    "40,000 of them in stock"

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs
    Principal Consultant
    ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
    Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
    Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

    http://electrooptical.net
    http://hobbs-eo.com

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    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to jfeng@my-deja.com on Mon Apr 11 13:30:48 2022
    jfeng@my-deja.com wrote:
    On Thursday, April 7, 2022 at 1:30:18 PM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    They must have made them in saucepans. Actual _good_ JFETs, such as the
    CPH3910, have much much tighter specs (and much lower noise).
    I always assumed it reflected the manufacturing processes available at the time. By that time, the planar diffused process was pretty common, and it was much better controlled than using the grown-junction or alloy-junction processes. Good engineers
    learned how to design circuits that could tolerate the variations in those processes and the variations produced by varying operating temperatures and voltages. Ion implantation produced much tighter ranges, but it was still not a common manufacturing
    process in the mid 1970s.


    IIRC the usual planar JFET of that era has a Vp range of around 3:1.
    This piece of crap's range is 15:1.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs
    Principal Consultant
    ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
    Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
    Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

    http://electrooptical.net
    http://hobbs-eo.com

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  • From legg@21:1/5 to pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical. on Mon Apr 11 16:21:40 2022
    On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 13:30:48 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    jfeng@my-deja.com wrote:
    On Thursday, April 7, 2022 at 1:30:18 PM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    They must have made them in saucepans. Actual _good_ JFETs, such as the
    CPH3910, have much much tighter specs (and much lower noise).
    I always assumed it reflected the manufacturing processes available at the time. By that time, the planar diffused process was pretty common, and it was much better controlled than using the grown-junction or alloy-junction processes. Good
    engineers learned how to design circuits that could tolerate the variations in those processes and the variations produced by varying operating temperatures and voltages. Ion implantation produced much tighter ranges, but it was still not a common
    manufacturing process in the mid 1970s.


    IIRC the usual planar JFET of that era has a Vp range of around 3:1.
    This piece of crap's range is 15:1.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    I think the 3:1 range for one part number was achieved
    by binning a series of numbers (typically 4 or more) from
    the same mfring process batch.

    RL

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  • From jf0303222@gmail.com@21:1/5 to Phil Hobbs on Mon Apr 11 19:57:12 2022
    On Monday, April 11, 2022 at 10:30:51 AM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:

    IIRC the usual planar JFET of that era has a Vp range of around 3:1.
    This piece of crap's range is 15:1.
    My recollection is that there were not very many other commercial JFETs for comparison. And the specs for the MOSFETs were even more poorly controlled because they did not understand the manufacturing hygiene required to control the surface states.

    I remember the standard bipolar transistor hfe spec had a 3:1 range. They narrowed by testing and selecting parts, so there were lots of "families" with consecutive numbers and similar specs except for the buckets for the selected parameter (hfe, BVceo,
    fT, etc).

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