• Dutch-like language [OT]

    From Liz Tuddenham@21:1/5 to All on Tue Dec 3 12:59:22 2024
    Last night in the 80-metre band I heard two 'hams' talking. The vowel
    sounds of their voices seemed to be characteristically Dutch (an accent
    like the Groningen area) but the language was completely
    incomprehensible. I listened for several minutes but didn't hear a
    single word I recognised

    Do any of our Dutch contributors know of some dialect that is Dutch in
    sound but does not use the standard Dutch language?

    [I tried to send this to Jan by e-mail but the address I found for him
    on the Web just bounced.]


    --
    ~ Liz Tuddenham ~
    (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
    www.poppyrecords.co.uk

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  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to Liz Tuddenham on Wed Dec 4 06:19:26 2024
    On a sunny day (Tue, 3 Dec 2024 12:59:22 +0000) it happened liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) wrote in <1r3zqks.1pae81f187shiuN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>:

    Last night in the 80-metre band I heard two 'hams' talking. The vowel
    sounds of their voices seemed to be characteristically Dutch (an accent
    like the Groningen area) but the language was completely
    incomprehensible. I listened for several minutes but didn't hear a
    single word I recognised

    Do any of our Dutch contributors know of some dialect that is Dutch in
    sound but does not use the standard Dutch language?

    [I tried to send this to Jan by e-mail but the address I found for him
    on the Web just bounced.]

    There is the Frisian (Fries) language, spoken west of Groningen
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Frisian_language
    And Gronings
    And Drents:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr%C3%A8ents_dialectss
    Have not listened to 80 meter for a long time, much local noise here.

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  • From Bill Sloman@21:1/5 to Liz Tuddenham on Wed Dec 4 17:44:30 2024
    On 3/12/2024 11:59 pm, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
    Last night in the 80-metre band I heard two 'hams' talking. The vowel
    sounds of their voices seemed to be characteristically Dutch (an accent
    like the Groningen area) but the language was completely
    incomprehensible. I listened for several minutes but didn't hear a
    single word I recognised

    Do any of our Dutch contributors know of some dialect that is Dutch in
    sound but does not use the standard Dutch language?

    [I tried to send this to Jan by e-mail but the address I found for him
    on the Web just bounced.]

    As Jan said, it could have been Fries. To German's Dutch sounds like yet another low German dialect.

    The historical reality is that Dutch was the dominant German dialect in northern Europe during the Dutch golden age, and high German is the
    Prussian dialect spoken at the court of Frederick the Great - he
    preferred to use French - which got enforced as the official court
    language in the countries Prussian came to rule. The other low German
    dialects still persist as local dialects.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

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  • From Liz Tuddenham@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Wed Dec 4 11:41:47 2024
    Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 3 Dec 2024 12:59:22 +0000) it happened liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) wrote in <1r3zqks.1pae81f187shiuN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>:

    Last night in the 80-metre band I heard two 'hams' talking. The vowel >sounds of their voices seemed to be characteristically Dutch (an accent >like the Groningen area) but the language was completely
    incomprehensible. I listened for several minutes but didn't hear a
    single word I recognised

    Do any of our Dutch contributors know of some dialect that is Dutch in >sound but does not use the standard Dutch language?

    [I tried to send this to Jan by e-mail but the address I found for him
    on the Web just bounced.]

    There is the Frisian (Fries) language, spoken west of Groningen
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Frisian_language
    And Gronings
    And Drents:

    I have listened to the Wikipedia recordings of Fries and Gronings (there doesn't seem to be one of Drents). Fries doesn't seem to have the
    frequency of typically Dutch pronunciation of the G and CH sounds that i
    heard in the QSO. Gronings had those sounds but many of the words are
    just slightly eccented standard Dutch words which weren't in the QSO.
    The mystery remains, so if I hear that language again, I shall have to
    record it.


    Have not listened to 80 meter for a long time, much local noise here.

    It was like that here until I put a really good (3-wire inductive) mains
    filter right against the input to the receiver and then solidly earthed
    the receiver chassis with an independent earthing system of heavy wire
    soldered to spaced earth rods, using a blowlamp.


    --
    ~ Liz Tuddenham ~
    (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
    www.poppyrecords.co.uk

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  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to Liz Tuddenham on Wed Dec 4 06:50:43 2024
    On 12/4/2024 4:41 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
    It was like that here until I put a really good (3-wire inductive) mains filter right against the input to the receiver and then solidly earthed
    the receiver chassis with an independent earthing system of heavy wire soldered to spaced earth rods, using a blowlamp.

    Here, such grounds would be connected with exothermic welds
    (think thermite; but, actually copper oxide and aluminum)
    Many manufacturers offer this in different "deployment
    packages -- from raw powder to small cartridges.

    The resulting weld is supposedly much more durable than
    more "conventional" methods.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to Liz Tuddenham on Wed Dec 4 14:10:27 2024
    Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
    Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 3 Dec 2024 12:59:22 +0000) it happened
    liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) wrote in
    <1r3zqks.1pae81f187shiuN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>:

    Last night in the 80-metre band I heard two 'hams' talking. The vowel
    sounds of their voices seemed to be characteristically Dutch (an accent
    like the Groningen area) but the language was completely
    incomprehensible. I listened for several minutes but didn't hear a
    single word I recognised

    Do any of our Dutch contributors know of some dialect that is Dutch in
    sound but does not use the standard Dutch language?

    [I tried to send this to Jan by e-mail but the address I found for him
    on the Web just bounced.]

    There is the Frisian (Fries) language, spoken west of Groningen
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Frisian_language
    And Gronings
    And Drents:

    I have listened to the Wikipedia recordings of Fries and Gronings (there doesn't seem to be one of Drents). Fries doesn't seem to have the
    frequency of typically Dutch pronunciation of the G and CH sounds that i heard in the QSO. Gronings had those sounds but many of the words are
    just slightly eccented standard Dutch words which weren't in the QSO.
    The mystery remains, so if I hear that language again, I shall have to
    record it.


    Have not listened to 80 meter for a long time, much local noise here.

    It was like that here until I put a really good (3-wire inductive) mains filter right against the input to the receiver and then solidly earthed
    the receiver chassis with an independent earthing system of heavy wire soldered to spaced earth rods, using a blowlamp.



    Is there a Dutch version of Yiddish?

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

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  • From legg@21:1/5 to Liz Tuddenham on Wed Dec 4 08:19:44 2024
    On Wed, 4 Dec 2024 11:41:47 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
    (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

    Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 3 Dec 2024 12:59:22 +0000) it happened
    liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) wrote in
    <1r3zqks.1pae81f187shiuN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>:

    Last night in the 80-metre band I heard two 'hams' talking. The vowel
    sounds of their voices seemed to be characteristically Dutch (an accent
    like the Groningen area) but the language was completely
    incomprehensible. I listened for several minutes but didn't hear a
    single word I recognised

    Do any of our Dutch contributors know of some dialect that is Dutch in
    sound but does not use the standard Dutch language?

    [I tried to send this to Jan by e-mail but the address I found for him
    on the Web just bounced.]

    There is the Frisian (Fries) language, spoken west of Groningen
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Frisian_language
    And Gronings
    And Drents:

    I have listened to the Wikipedia recordings of Fries and Gronings (there >doesn't seem to be one of Drents). Fries doesn't seem to have the
    frequency of typically Dutch pronunciation of the G and CH sounds that i >heard in the QSO. Gronings had those sounds but many of the words are
    just slightly eccented standard Dutch words which weren't in the QSO.
    The mystery remains, so if I hear that language again, I shall have to
    record it.


    Have not listened to 80 meter for a long time, much local noise here.

    It was like that here until I put a really good (3-wire inductive) mains >filter right against the input to the receiver and then solidly earthed
    the receiver chassis with an independent earthing system of heavy wire >soldered to spaced earth rods, using a blowlamp.

    Boer?

    RL

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  • From Liz Tuddenham@21:1/5 to Don Y on Wed Dec 4 18:24:07 2024
    Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

    On 12/4/2024 4:41 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
    It was like that here until I put a really good (3-wire inductive) mains filter right against the input to the receiver and then solidly earthed
    the receiver chassis with an independent earthing system of heavy wire soldered to spaced earth rods, using a blowlamp.

    Here, such grounds would be connected with exothermic welds
    (think thermite; but, actually copper oxide and aluminum)
    Many manufacturers offer this in different "deployment
    packages -- from raw powder to small cartridges.

    The resulting weld is supposedly much more durable than
    more "conventional" methods.

    I can't imagine anything like that being available to the general public
    in the UK.

    Perhaps you would be given a licence to use it after you had been on a
    series of Elfin Safety courses followed by a weeks training on how to
    fill in the appropriate forms. You would, of course, have to notify
    every fire brigade for 25 km around the work area in writing, in
    triplicate, at least 6 weeks beforehand, and send proof of insurance to
    the nearest police station (which could be up to 50 miles away, as most
    of them have closed now).

    You would have to cease activites immediately if instructed to do so by
    a police officer in or out of uniform, any official of the local council (including the dog warden)or a minister of religion as long as he was
    wearing the robes of his office.

    Your name would be added to a register of 'intertesting persons' and
    held there for 25 years. It could be removed earlier in the event of
    your death - but ony if you notify the authorities in person at least 10 working days after the event.

    England. land of the free!


    --
    ~ Liz Tuddenham ~
    (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
    www.poppyrecords.co.uk

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  • From Liz Tuddenham@21:1/5 to legg on Wed Dec 4 18:24:07 2024
    legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

    On Wed, 4 Dec 2024 11:41:47 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
    (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

    Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 3 Dec 2024 12:59:22 +0000) it happened
    liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) wrote in
    <1r3zqks.1pae81f187shiuN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>:

    Last night in the 80-metre band I heard two 'hams' talking. The vowel
    sounds of their voices seemed to be characteristically Dutch (an accent >> >like the Groningen area) but the language was completely
    incomprehensible. I listened for several minutes but didn't hear a
    single word I recognised

    Do any of our Dutch contributors know of some dialect that is Dutch in
    sound but does not use the standard Dutch language?

    [I tried to send this to Jan by e-mail but the address I found for him
    on the Web just bounced.]

    There is the Frisian (Fries) language, spoken west of Groningen
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Frisian_language
    And Gronings
    And Drents:

    I have listened to the Wikipedia recordings of Fries and Gronings (there >doesn't seem to be one of Drents). Fries doesn't seem to have the >frequency of typically Dutch pronunciation of the G and CH sounds that i >heard in the QSO. Gronings had those sounds but many of the words are
    just slightly eccented standard Dutch words which weren't in the QSO.
    The mystery remains, so if I hear that language again, I shall have to >record it.


    Have not listened to 80 meter for a long time, much local noise here.

    It was like that here until I put a really good (3-wire inductive) mains >filter right against the input to the receiver and then solidly earthed
    the receiver chassis with an independent earthing system of heavy wire >soldered to spaced earth rods, using a blowlamp.

    Boer?

    If you mean Afrikaans, I would probably have recognised that.


    --
    ~ Liz Tuddenham ~
    (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
    www.poppyrecords.co.uk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Liz Tuddenham@21:1/5 to Bill Sloman on Wed Dec 4 18:24:08 2024
    Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

    On 3/12/2024 11:59 pm, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
    Last night in the 80-metre band I heard two 'hams' talking. The vowel sounds of their voices seemed to be characteristically Dutch (an accent like the Groningen area) but the language was completely
    incomprehensible. I listened for several minutes but didn't hear a
    single word I recognised

    Do any of our Dutch contributors know of some dialect that is Dutch in sound but does not use the standard Dutch language?

    [I tried to send this to Jan by e-mail but the address I found for him
    on the Web just bounced.]

    As Jan said, it could have been Fries. To German's Dutch sounds like yet another low German dialect.

    The historical reality is that Dutch was the dominant German dialect in northern Europe during the Dutch golden age, and high German is the
    Prussian dialect spoken at the court of Frederick the Great - he
    preferred to use French - which got enforced as the official court
    language in the countries Prussian came to rule. The other low German dialects still persist as local dialects.

    There are some distinctive sounds in modern Dutch which can identify it
    to a non-Dutch speaker, particularly the accent in the NE provinces.
    They were present in this QSO but the words didn't sound like any Dutch
    I have ever heard (or German, or French or any other European language).


    --
    ~ Liz Tuddenham ~
    (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
    www.poppyrecords.co.uk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Liz Tuddenham@21:1/5 to Phil Hobbs on Wed Dec 4 18:24:08 2024
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
    Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 3 Dec 2024 12:59:22 +0000) it happened
    liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) wrote in
    <1r3zqks.1pae81f187shiuN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>:

    Last night in the 80-metre band I heard two 'hams' talking. The vowel >>> sounds of their voices seemed to be characteristically Dutch (an accent >>> like the Groningen area) but the language was completely
    incomprehensible. I listened for several minutes but didn't hear a
    single word I recognised

    Do any of our Dutch contributors know of some dialect that is Dutch in >>> sound but does not use the standard Dutch language?

    [I tried to send this to Jan by e-mail but the address I found for him >>> on the Web just bounced.]

    There is the Frisian (Fries) language, spoken west of Groningen
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Frisian_language
    And Gronings
    And Drents:

    I have listened to the Wikipedia recordings of Fries and Gronings (there doesn't seem to be one of Drents). Fries doesn't seem to have the frequency of typically Dutch pronunciation of the G and CH sounds that i heard in the QSO. Gronings had those sounds but many of the words are
    just slightly eccented standard Dutch words which weren't in the QSO.
    The mystery remains, so if I hear that language again, I shall have to record it.


    Have not listened to 80 meter for a long time, much local noise here.

    It was like that here until I put a really good (3-wire inductive) mains filter right against the input to the receiver and then solidly earthed
    the receiver chassis with an independent earthing system of heavy wire soldered to spaced earth rods, using a blowlamp.



    Is there a Dutch version of Yiddish?

    I thought Yiddish was an international language rather like Esperanto.
    The language I heard didn't seem to have any of the characteristics I
    associate with Yiddish.

    --
    ~ Liz Tuddenham ~
    (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
    www.poppyrecords.co.uk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to Liz Tuddenham on Wed Dec 4 15:10:35 2024
    On Wed, 4 Dec 2024 18:24:08 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
    (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
    Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 3 Dec 2024 12:59:22 +0000) it happened
    liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) wrote in
    <1r3zqks.1pae81f187shiuN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>:

    Last night in the 80-metre band I heard two 'hams' talking. The vowel >> >>> sounds of their voices seemed to be characteristically Dutch (an accent >> >>> like the Groningen area) but the language was completely
    incomprehensible. I listened for several minutes but didn't hear a
    single word I recognised

    Do any of our Dutch contributors know of some dialect that is Dutch in >> >>> sound but does not use the standard Dutch language?

    [I tried to send this to Jan by e-mail but the address I found for him >> >>> on the Web just bounced.]

    There is the Frisian (Fries) language, spoken west of Groningen
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Frisian_language
    And Gronings
    And Drents:

    I have listened to the Wikipedia recordings of Fries and Gronings (there >> > doesn't seem to be one of Drents). Fries doesn't seem to have the
    frequency of typically Dutch pronunciation of the G and CH sounds that i >> > heard in the QSO. Gronings had those sounds but many of the words are
    just slightly eccented standard Dutch words which weren't in the QSO.
    The mystery remains, so if I hear that language again, I shall have to
    record it.


    Have not listened to 80 meter for a long time, much local noise here.

    It was like that here until I put a really good (3-wire inductive) mains >> > filter right against the input to the receiver and then solidly earthed
    the receiver chassis with an independent earthing system of heavy wire
    soldered to spaced earth rods, using a blowlamp.



    Is there a Dutch version of Yiddish?

    I thought Yiddish was an international language rather like Esperanto.
    The language I heard didn't seem to have any of the characteristics I >associate with Yiddish.

    Back in the day, I had a girlfriend from NYC, and I heard lots of
    Yiddish there. It sounds like German to my ear, but is not close to
    German in anything else, but is reportedly closer to Slavic languages
    like Russian and Polish.

    Joe Gwinn

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  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to Liz Tuddenham on Wed Dec 4 16:42:06 2024
    On 2024-12-04 13:24, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
    Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 3 Dec 2024 12:59:22 +0000) it happened
    liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) wrote in
    <1r3zqks.1pae81f187shiuN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>:

    Last night in the 80-metre band I heard two 'hams' talking. The vowel >>>>> sounds of their voices seemed to be characteristically Dutch (an accent >>>>> like the Groningen area) but the language was completely
    incomprehensible. I listened for several minutes but didn't hear a
    single word I recognised

    Do any of our Dutch contributors know of some dialect that is Dutch in >>>>> sound but does not use the standard Dutch language?

    [I tried to send this to Jan by e-mail but the address I found for him >>>>> on the Web just bounced.]

    There is the Frisian (Fries) language, spoken west of Groningen
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Frisian_language
    And Gronings
    And Drents:

    I have listened to the Wikipedia recordings of Fries and Gronings (there >>> doesn't seem to be one of Drents). Fries doesn't seem to have the
    frequency of typically Dutch pronunciation of the G and CH sounds that i >>> heard in the QSO. Gronings had those sounds but many of the words are
    just slightly eccented standard Dutch words which weren't in the QSO.
    The mystery remains, so if I hear that language again, I shall have to
    record it.


    Have not listened to 80 meter for a long time, much local noise here.

    It was like that here until I put a really good (3-wire inductive) mains >>> filter right against the input to the receiver and then solidly earthed
    the receiver chassis with an independent earthing system of heavy wire
    soldered to spaced earth rods, using a blowlamp.



    Is there a Dutch version of Yiddish?

    I thought Yiddish was an international language rather like Esperanto.
    The language I heard didn't seem to have any of the characteristics I associate with Yiddish.


    There's apparently a Portuguese version called (roughly) Lada~o, which
    sounds like Portuguese but is unintelligible to most Portuguese speakers.


    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs
    Principal Consultant
    ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
    Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
    Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

    http://electrooptical.net
    http://hobbs-eo.com

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  • From Bill Sloman@21:1/5 to Liz Tuddenham on Thu Dec 5 12:23:31 2024
    On 5/12/2024 5:24 am, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
    Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

    On 3/12/2024 11:59 pm, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
    Last night in the 80-metre band I heard two 'hams' talking. The vowel
    sounds of their voices seemed to be characteristically Dutch (an accent
    like the Groningen area) but the language was completely
    incomprehensible. I listened for several minutes but didn't hear a
    single word I recognised

    Do any of our Dutch contributors know of some dialect that is Dutch in
    sound but does not use the standard Dutch language?

    [I tried to send this to Jan by e-mail but the address I found for him
    on the Web just bounced.]

    As Jan said, it could have been Fries. To German's Dutch sounds like yet
    another low German dialect.

    The historical reality is that Dutch was the dominant German dialect in
    northern Europe during the Dutch golden age, and high German is the
    Prussian dialect spoken at the court of Frederick the Great - he
    preferred to use French - which got enforced as the official court
    language in the countries Prussian came to rule. The other low German
    dialects still persist as local dialects.

    There are some distinctive sounds in modern Dutch which can identify it
    to a non-Dutch speaker, particularly the accent in the NE provinces.
    They were present in this QSO but the words didn't sound like any Dutch
    I have ever heard (or German, or French or any other European language).

    You need a phonetician.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_phonology


    The international phonetic alphabet lists about 200 distinct phonemes
    and human languages all use different subsets of them, lumping some
    together and treating them as if they were identical.

    There are phonological contour maps of the Netherlands which show which provinces tend to make particular choices.

    Looking for "distinctive sounds" is over-simplifying task.

    As legg has pointed out there is a South African variant of Dutch,
    spoken by the Boers. It's called Afrikaans

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afrikaans

    I'm not familiar with it, but my psycholinguist wife had had some
    exposure to it.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

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    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to Liz Tuddenham on Wed Dec 4 20:35:30 2024
    On 12/4/2024 11:24 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
    Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

    On 12/4/2024 4:41 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
    It was like that here until I put a really good (3-wire inductive) mains >>> filter right against the input to the receiver and then solidly earthed
    the receiver chassis with an independent earthing system of heavy wire
    soldered to spaced earth rods, using a blowlamp.

    Here, such grounds would be connected with exothermic welds
    (think thermite; but, actually copper oxide and aluminum)
    Many manufacturers offer this in different "deployment
    packages -- from raw powder to small cartridges.

    The resulting weld is supposedly much more durable than
    more "conventional" methods.

    I can't imagine anything like that being available to the general public
    in the UK.

    I don't know if it is a "controlled substance" or if the vendors
    unofficially act as gatekeepers. Recall, there are lots of
    things that an Average Joe can purchase and use, here, that
    would raise eyebrows in England.

    One can own/sell "small" pyrotechnic devices without a license
    (required for anything holding more than 50mg of powder).

    When my father-in-law built his home (70 years ago?) he placed
    sticks of dynamite on the ground to MOVE "excess material" out
    of the way. (life in the "Wild West"). Today, that would probably
    be *harder* to do -- but probably not impossible.

    Perhaps you would be given a licence to use it after you had been on a
    series of Elfin Safety courses followed by a weeks training on how to
    fill in the appropriate forms. You would, of course, have to notify
    every fire brigade for 25 km around the work area in writing, in
    triplicate, at least 6 weeks beforehand, and send proof of insurance to
    the nearest police station (which could be up to 50 miles away, as most
    of them have closed now).

    You would have to cease activites immediately if instructed to do so by
    a police officer in or out of uniform, any official of the local council (including the dog warden)or a minister of religion as long as he was
    wearing the robes of his office.

    Your name would be added to a register of 'intertesting persons' and
    held there for 25 years. It could be removed earlier in the event of
    your death - but ony if you notify the authorities in person at least 10 working days after the event.

    England. land of the free!



    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to Liz Tuddenham on Thu Dec 5 06:59:29 2024
    On a sunny day (Wed, 4 Dec 2024 11:41:47 +0000) it happened liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) wrote in <1r41fmk.crf6y01c42hhcN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>:

    Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 3 Dec 2024 12:59:22 +0000) it happened
    liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) wrote in
    <1r3zqks.1pae81f187shiuN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>:

    Last night in the 80-metre band I heard two 'hams' talking. The vowel
    sounds of their voices seemed to be characteristically Dutch (an accent
    like the Groningen area) but the language was completely
    incomprehensible. I listened for several minutes but didn't hear a
    single word I recognised

    Do any of our Dutch contributors know of some dialect that is Dutch in
    sound but does not use the standard Dutch language?

    [I tried to send this to Jan by e-mail but the address I found for him
    on the Web just bounced.]

    There is the Frisian (Fries) language, spoken west of Groningen
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Frisian_language
    And Gronings
    And Drents:

    I have listened to the Wikipedia recordings of Fries and Gronings (there >doesn't seem to be one of Drents). Fries doesn't seem to have the
    frequency of typically Dutch pronunciation of the G and CH sounds that i >heard in the QSO. Gronings had those sounds but many of the words are
    just slightly eccented standard Dutch words which weren't in the QSO.
    The mystery remains, so if I hear that language again, I shall have to
    record it.

    Yes, let's here it! Maybe somebody here will know,
    I will listen to it, who knows,
    lived all over the country.


    Have not listened to 80 meter for a long time, much local noise here.

    It was like that here until I put a really good (3-wire inductive) mains >filter right against the input to the receiver and then solidly earthed
    the receiver chassis with an independent earthing system of heavy wire >soldered to spaced earth rods, using a blowlamp.

    I should make a good wire antenna, have an antenna tuner,
    but so many other projects.
    Much locally here is happening on 70 cm, simple Baofeng will do, repeaters plenty.

    As to the local noise, so many wall warts, other stuff in use...
    Even GPS is no longer possible indoors since the neighbors had huge solar panels installed
    I think that converter also makes noise.

    There is a project on the web that subtracts local RF noise from the antenna signal

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl@21:1/5 to Liz Tuddenham on Thu Dec 5 13:42:56 2024
    In article <1r3zqks.1pae81f187shiuN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>,
    Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
    Last night in the 80-metre band I heard two 'hams' talking. The vowel
    sounds of their voices seemed to be characteristically Dutch (an accent
    like the Groningen area) but the language was completely
    incomprehensible. I listened for several minutes but didn't hear a
    single word I recognised

    Do any of our Dutch contributors know of some dialect that is Dutch in
    sound but does not use the standard Dutch language?

    [I tried to send this to Jan by e-mail but the address I found for him
    on the Web just bounced.]

    You have intercepted a Chinese or Russian spy conversation.
    Through ai, sonants and consonants are transformed to typically
    Dutch like sonants and consonants.
    Make a recording and report to the autorities.

    ~ Liz Tuddenham ~
    Groetjes Albert
    --
    Temu exploits Christians: (Disclaimer, only 10 apostles)
    Last Supper Acrylic Suncatcher - 15Cm Round Stained Glass- Style Wall
    Art For Home, Office And Garden Decor - Perfect For Windows, Bars,
    And Gifts For Friends Family And Colleagues.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Liz Tuddenham@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Thu Dec 5 12:50:33 2024
    Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:


    I should make a good wire antenna, have an antenna tuner,
    but so many other projects.

    From the photograph you linked to, showing your garden, it looks as
    though you are hemmed-in on all sides by houses. A long wire might
    work, but it also could act as a conduit for noise picked up from your neighbour at the distant end. You need to keep it as high as you can
    without attracting the attention of the local authorities.

    Long lightweight alloy poles are sold for television aerials and one of
    those can be fixed to the shed or a fence post without needing guy
    ropes. as long as the wire isn't too tight. You can buy the plastic
    equivalent of 'egg' insulators or just use a length of monofilament
    nylon fishing line. With an ATU, the length isn't so critical.

    The biggest problem is usually the lead-in. I managed to bring mine
    into the loft in the gap between two tiles and then used co-ax to
    connect it to the receiver. There is a mis-match at the aerial end, but
    the downlead matches the receiver input impedance, so the downlead
    doesn't form part of the aerial and doesn't pick up interference inside
    the house.


    There is a project on the web that subtracts local RF noise from the
    antenna signal

    There were plans published for some of these in The Netherlands during
    WWII under the name "Moffenzeef".


    --
    ~ Liz Tuddenham ~
    (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
    www.poppyrecords.co.uk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to Liz Tuddenham on Thu Dec 5 13:54:48 2024
    On a sunny day (Thu, 5 Dec 2024 12:50:33 +0000) it happened liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) wrote in <1r43bxx.8z68ij1kp3c1yN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>:

    Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:


    I should make a good wire antenna, have an antenna tuner,
    but so many other projects.

    From the photograph you linked to, showing your garden, it looks as
    though you are hemmed-in on all sides by houses. A long wire might
    work, but it also could act as a conduit for noise picked up from your >neighbour at the distant end. You need to keep it as high as you can
    without attracting the attention of the local authorities.

    Long lightweight alloy poles are sold for television aerials and one of
    those can be fixed to the shed or a fence post without needing guy
    ropes. as long as the wire isn't too tight. You can buy the plastic >equivalent of 'egg' insulators or just use a length of monofilament
    nylon fishing line. With an ATU, the length isn't so critical.

    This recoding shows my 27 MHz GPA mouned on the side house
    rising above the Christmas tree I planted in 1998? or so.. old address. Recoding was ctually a test for my Canon camera..
    I still have that antenna, not mounted here ...




    The biggest problem is usually the lead-in. I managed to bring mine
    into the loft in the gap between two tiles and then used co-ax to
    connect it to the receiver. There is a mis-match at the aerial end, but
    the downlead matches the receiver input impedance, so the downlead
    doesn't form part of the aerial and doesn't pick up interference inside
    the house.


    There is a project on the web that subtracts local RF noise from the >antenna signal

    There were plans published for some of these in The Netherlands during
    WWII under the name "Moffenzeef".

    Found it (in Dutch):
    https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moffenzeef

    Any length of wire you can tune in with an antenna tuner I think.
    https://panteltje.nl/pub/ebay_QRP_antenna_tuner_IXIMG_0552.JPG

    SWR meter I build long ago:
    https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/pic/swr_pic/
    also shows my RCI-2970 shortwave transceiver 120 W PEP

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Liz Tuddenham@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Thu Dec 5 15:50:15 2024
    Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:

    [...]
    There were plans published for some of these in The Netherlands during
    WWII under the name "Moffenzeef".

    Found it (in Dutch):
    https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moffenzeef

    There is an explanation of it, in English, on the Cryptomuseum website.
    I understand the expression was not intended to be complimentary.

    Any length of wire you can tune in with an antenna tuner I think.
    https://panteltje.nl/pub/ebay_QRP_antenna_tuner_IXIMG_0552.JPG

    Almost ...but the radiation pattern may not always be what you would
    like.



    --
    ~ Liz Tuddenham ~
    (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
    www.poppyrecords.co.uk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to Liz Tuddenham on Thu Dec 5 08:50:48 2024
    On Tue, 3 Dec 2024 12:59:22 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
    (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

    Last night in the 80-metre band I heard two 'hams' talking. The vowel
    sounds of their voices seemed to be characteristically Dutch (an accent
    like the Groningen area) but the language was completely
    incomprehensible. I listened for several minutes but didn't hear a
    single word I recognised

    Do any of our Dutch contributors know of some dialect that is Dutch in
    sound but does not use the standard Dutch language?

    [I tried to send this to Jan by e-mail but the address I found for him
    on the Web just bounced.]

    I used to be a technician in a language lab full of reel-to-reel tape
    decks. I was paid 65 cents per hour.

    I did a lot of tape copying and some studio recording so I heard a lot
    of languages. Some of the slavic languages and Cantonese sounded awful
    to me. The most beautiful was Portugese, and the speaker was beautiful
    too.

    It' hard to imagine some other-language speakers who want to sound
    like the Dutch.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to Liz Tuddenham on Fri Dec 6 06:18:17 2024
    On a sunny day (Thu, 5 Dec 2024 15:50:15 +0000) it happened liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) wrote in <1r43nv2.1gtueb06sl5a8N%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>:

    Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:

    [...]
    There were plans published for some of these in The Netherlands during
    WWII under the name "Moffenzeef".

    Found it (in Dutch):
    https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moffenzeef

    There is an explanation of it, in English, on the Cryptomuseum website.
    I understand the expression was not intended to be complimentary.

    Right, 'Moffen' was the Dutch name / name calling for the German occupiers.


    Any length of wire you can tune in with an antenna tuner I think.
    https://panteltje.nl/pub/ebay_QRP_antenna_tuner_IXIMG_0552.JPG

    Almost ...but the radiation pattern may not always be what you would
    like.

    Sure...

    I also had a drone up there as antenna... drone flights no longer allowed here :-(
    https://panteltje.nl/pub/h501s_drone_remote_power_flight_test_1_IMG_6274.JPG did send several hundred volt at 100 kHz to the drone to power it,
    at the same time you can use the wire as transmit antenna...
    https://panteltje.nl/pub/h501s_drone_remote_power_test_ground_control_1_IMG_6276.JPG
    Or use antennas like this perhaps:
    https://panteltje.nl/pub/testing_the_20_meter_inductive_loop_antenna_IMG_4536.JPG

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joerg@21:1/5 to Liz Tuddenham on Tue Dec 10 14:12:24 2024
    On 12/3/24 4:59 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
    Last night in the 80-metre band I heard two 'hams' talking. The vowel
    sounds of their voices seemed to be characteristically Dutch (an accent
    like the Groningen area) but the language was completely
    incomprehensible. I listened for several minutes but didn't hear a
    single word I recognised

    Do any of our Dutch contributors know of some dialect that is Dutch in
    sound but does not use the standard Dutch language?

    [I tried to send this to Jan by e-mail but the address I found for him
    on the Web just bounced.]


    Afrikaans maybe?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCDUm22_OHA

    --
    Regards, Joerg

    http://www.analogconsultants.com/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joerg@21:1/5 to john larkin on Tue Dec 10 14:23:08 2024
    On 12/5/24 8:50 AM, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 3 Dec 2024 12:59:22 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
    (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

    Last night in the 80-metre band I heard two 'hams' talking. The vowel
    sounds of their voices seemed to be characteristically Dutch (an accent
    like the Groningen area) but the language was completely
    incomprehensible. I listened for several minutes but didn't hear a
    single word I recognised

    Do any of our Dutch contributors know of some dialect that is Dutch in
    sound but does not use the standard Dutch language?

    [I tried to send this to Jan by e-mail but the address I found for him
    on the Web just bounced.]

    I used to be a technician in a language lab full of reel-to-reel tape
    decks. I was paid 65 cents per hour.

    I did a lot of tape copying and some studio recording so I heard a lot
    of languages. Some of the slavic languages and Cantonese sounded awful
    to me. The most beautiful was Portugese, and the speaker was beautiful
    too.


    It can become really tough with slang. One guy was sure he had good
    fluency in Dutch and Flemish. Until we listened to this guy:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D57aoWB3Rjg


    It' hard to imagine some other-language speakers who want to sound
    like the Dutch.


    Don't want to but it happens when you live there and immerse. I lived in
    the south and spent much time in Belgium. After a while (until today) English-speakers no longer recognized where I really came from because
    my accent became all messed up. It just happens.

    When you move a lot one of the not so desired consequences is that you
    are fluent or somewhat fluent in several languages but you speak none of
    them perfectly, including your native tongue.

    --
    Regards, Joerg

    http://www.analogconsultants.com/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to All on Tue Dec 10 18:59:20 2024
    On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 14:23:08 -0800, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
    wrote:

    On 12/5/24 8:50 AM, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 3 Dec 2024 12:59:22 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
    (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

    Last night in the 80-metre band I heard two 'hams' talking. The vowel
    sounds of their voices seemed to be characteristically Dutch (an accent
    like the Groningen area) but the language was completely
    incomprehensible. I listened for several minutes but didn't hear a
    single word I recognised

    Do any of our Dutch contributors know of some dialect that is Dutch in
    sound but does not use the standard Dutch language?

    [I tried to send this to Jan by e-mail but the address I found for him
    on the Web just bounced.]

    I used to be a technician in a language lab full of reel-to-reel tape
    decks. I was paid 65 cents per hour.

    I did a lot of tape copying and some studio recording so I heard a lot
    of languages. Some of the slavic languages and Cantonese sounded awful
    to me. The most beautiful was Portugese, and the speaker was beautiful
    too.


    It can become really tough with slang. One guy was sure he had good
    fluency in Dutch and Flemish. Until we listened to this guy:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D57aoWB3Rjg


    It' hard to imagine some other-language speakers who want to sound
    like the Dutch.


    Don't want to but it happens when you live there and immerse. I lived in
    the south and spent much time in Belgium. After a while (until today) >English-speakers no longer recognized where I really came from because
    my accent became all messed up. It just happens.

    When you move a lot one of the not so desired consequences is that you
    are fluent or somewhat fluent in several languages but you speak none of
    them perfectly, including your native tongue.

    I grew up in New Orleans, which has its own accent, nothing like the
    South. It's sometimes called "Yat", from the Aloha-like greeting
    "Where yat?" which is properly answered by "Where yat?"

    And I married a Cajun girl. The Cajuns have their own language and
    accent. Two islands of weirdness that just happen to be in the south.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeroen Belleman@21:1/5 to john larkin on Wed Dec 11 10:12:54 2024
    On 12/11/24 03:59, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 14:23:08 -0800, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
    wrote:

    On 12/5/24 8:50 AM, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 3 Dec 2024 12:59:22 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
    (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

    Last night in the 80-metre band I heard two 'hams' talking. The vowel >>>> sounds of their voices seemed to be characteristically Dutch (an accent >>>> like the Groningen area) but the language was completely
    incomprehensible. I listened for several minutes but didn't hear a
    single word I recognised

    Do any of our Dutch contributors know of some dialect that is Dutch in >>>> sound but does not use the standard Dutch language?

    [I tried to send this to Jan by e-mail but the address I found for him >>>> on the Web just bounced.]

    I used to be a technician in a language lab full of reel-to-reel tape
    decks. I was paid 65 cents per hour.

    I did a lot of tape copying and some studio recording so I heard a lot
    of languages. Some of the slavic languages and Cantonese sounded awful
    to me. The most beautiful was Portugese, and the speaker was beautiful
    too.


    It can become really tough with slang. One guy was sure he had good
    fluency in Dutch and Flemish. Until we listened to this guy:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D57aoWB3Rjg


    It' hard to imagine some other-language speakers who want to sound
    like the Dutch.


    Don't want to but it happens when you live there and immerse. I lived in
    the south and spent much time in Belgium. After a while (until today)
    English-speakers no longer recognized where I really came from because
    my accent became all messed up. It just happens.

    When you move a lot one of the not so desired consequences is that you
    are fluent or somewhat fluent in several languages but you speak none of
    them perfectly, including your native tongue.

    I grew up in New Orleans, which has its own accent, nothing like the
    South. It's sometimes called "Yat", from the Aloha-like greeting
    "Where yat?" which is properly answered by "Where yat?"

    And I married a Cajun girl. The Cajuns have their own language and
    accent. Two islands of weirdness that just happen to be in the south.


    I can probably understand the cajun dialect. It's close to French.

    Jeroen Belleman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Liz Tuddenham@21:1/5 to Joerg on Wed Dec 11 10:36:15 2024
    Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote:

    On 12/3/24 4:59 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
    Last night in the 80-metre band I heard two 'hams' talking. The vowel sounds of their voices seemed to be characteristically Dutch (an accent like the Groningen area) but the language was completely
    incomprehensible. I listened for several minutes but didn't hear a
    single word I recognised

    Do any of our Dutch contributors know of some dialect that is Dutch in sound but does not use the standard Dutch language?

    [I tried to send this to Jan by e-mail but the address I found for him
    on the Web just bounced.]


    Afrikaans maybe?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCDUm22_OHA

    I think I would have recognised Afikaans.


    --
    ~ Liz Tuddenham ~
    (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
    www.poppyrecords.co.uk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to jeroen@nospam.please on Wed Dec 11 02:41:07 2024
    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 10:12:54 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
    <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

    On 12/11/24 03:59, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 14:23:08 -0800, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
    wrote:

    On 12/5/24 8:50 AM, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 3 Dec 2024 12:59:22 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
    (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

    Last night in the 80-metre band I heard two 'hams' talking. The vowel >>>>> sounds of their voices seemed to be characteristically Dutch (an accent >>>>> like the Groningen area) but the language was completely
    incomprehensible. I listened for several minutes but didn't hear a
    single word I recognised

    Do any of our Dutch contributors know of some dialect that is Dutch in >>>>> sound but does not use the standard Dutch language?

    [I tried to send this to Jan by e-mail but the address I found for him >>>>> on the Web just bounced.]

    I used to be a technician in a language lab full of reel-to-reel tape
    decks. I was paid 65 cents per hour.

    I did a lot of tape copying and some studio recording so I heard a lot >>>> of languages. Some of the slavic languages and Cantonese sounded awful >>>> to me. The most beautiful was Portugese, and the speaker was beautiful >>>> too.


    It can become really tough with slang. One guy was sure he had good
    fluency in Dutch and Flemish. Until we listened to this guy:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D57aoWB3Rjg


    It' hard to imagine some other-language speakers who want to sound
    like the Dutch.


    Don't want to but it happens when you live there and immerse. I lived in >>> the south and spent much time in Belgium. After a while (until today)
    English-speakers no longer recognized where I really came from because
    my accent became all messed up. It just happens.

    When you move a lot one of the not so desired consequences is that you
    are fluent or somewhat fluent in several languages but you speak none of >>> them perfectly, including your native tongue.

    I grew up in New Orleans, which has its own accent, nothing like the
    South. It's sometimes called "Yat", from the Aloha-like greeting
    "Where yat?" which is properly answered by "Where yat?"

    And I married a Cajun girl. The Cajuns have their own language and
    accent. Two islands of weirdness that just happen to be in the south.


    I can probably understand the cajun dialect. It's close to French.

    Jeroen Belleman

    I've been told that Parisians can't communicate with Cajuns.

    But the Cajun language is rare now. In WWII, draftees had to be sent
    to English language schools.

    The food is good, but very hot. My daddy-in-law used to grow the
    cayenne peppers for Tobasco sauce. People wear gloves to pick them.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeroen Belleman@21:1/5 to john larkin on Wed Dec 11 12:11:12 2024
    On 12/11/24 11:41, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 10:12:54 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
    <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

    On 12/11/24 03:59, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 14:23:08 -0800, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
    wrote:

    On 12/5/24 8:50 AM, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 3 Dec 2024 12:59:22 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
    (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

    Last night in the 80-metre band I heard two 'hams' talking. The vowel >>>>>> sounds of their voices seemed to be characteristically Dutch (an accent >>>>>> like the Groningen area) but the language was completely
    incomprehensible. I listened for several minutes but didn't hear a >>>>>> single word I recognised

    Do any of our Dutch contributors know of some dialect that is Dutch in >>>>>> sound but does not use the standard Dutch language?

    [I tried to send this to Jan by e-mail but the address I found for him >>>>>> on the Web just bounced.]

    I used to be a technician in a language lab full of reel-to-reel tape >>>>> decks. I was paid 65 cents per hour.

    I did a lot of tape copying and some studio recording so I heard a lot >>>>> of languages. Some of the slavic languages and Cantonese sounded awful >>>>> to me. The most beautiful was Portugese, and the speaker was beautiful >>>>> too.


    It can become really tough with slang. One guy was sure he had good
    fluency in Dutch and Flemish. Until we listened to this guy:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D57aoWB3Rjg


    It' hard to imagine some other-language speakers who want to sound
    like the Dutch.


    Don't want to but it happens when you live there and immerse. I lived in >>>> the south and spent much time in Belgium. After a while (until today)
    English-speakers no longer recognized where I really came from because >>>> my accent became all messed up. It just happens.

    When you move a lot one of the not so desired consequences is that you >>>> are fluent or somewhat fluent in several languages but you speak none of >>>> them perfectly, including your native tongue.

    I grew up in New Orleans, which has its own accent, nothing like the
    South. It's sometimes called "Yat", from the Aloha-like greeting
    "Where yat?" which is properly answered by "Where yat?"

    And I married a Cajun girl. The Cajuns have their own language and
    accent. Two islands of weirdness that just happen to be in the south.


    I can probably understand the cajun dialect. It's close to French.

    Jeroen Belleman

    I've been told that Parisians can't communicate with Cajuns.

    But the Cajun language is rare now. In WWII, draftees had to be sent
    to English language schools.

    The food is good, but very hot. My daddy-in-law used to grow the
    cayenne peppers for Tobasco sauce. People wear gloves to pick them.

    Ha! Parisians are notorious for refusing to understand anyone who
    doesn't talk just like them!

    Jeroen Belleman

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  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to jeroen@nospam.please on Wed Dec 11 07:34:36 2024
    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 12:11:12 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
    <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

    On 12/11/24 11:41, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 10:12:54 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
    <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

    On 12/11/24 03:59, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 14:23:08 -0800, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> >>>> wrote:

    On 12/5/24 8:50 AM, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 3 Dec 2024 12:59:22 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid >>>>>> (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

    Last night in the 80-metre band I heard two 'hams' talking. The vowel >>>>>>> sounds of their voices seemed to be characteristically Dutch (an accent >>>>>>> like the Groningen area) but the language was completely
    incomprehensible. I listened for several minutes but didn't hear a >>>>>>> single word I recognised

    Do any of our Dutch contributors know of some dialect that is Dutch in >>>>>>> sound but does not use the standard Dutch language?

    [I tried to send this to Jan by e-mail but the address I found for him >>>>>>> on the Web just bounced.]

    I used to be a technician in a language lab full of reel-to-reel tape >>>>>> decks. I was paid 65 cents per hour.

    I did a lot of tape copying and some studio recording so I heard a lot >>>>>> of languages. Some of the slavic languages and Cantonese sounded awful >>>>>> to me. The most beautiful was Portugese, and the speaker was beautiful >>>>>> too.


    It can become really tough with slang. One guy was sure he had good
    fluency in Dutch and Flemish. Until we listened to this guy:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D57aoWB3Rjg


    It' hard to imagine some other-language speakers who want to sound >>>>>> like the Dutch.


    Don't want to but it happens when you live there and immerse. I lived in >>>>> the south and spent much time in Belgium. After a while (until today) >>>>> English-speakers no longer recognized where I really came from because >>>>> my accent became all messed up. It just happens.

    When you move a lot one of the not so desired consequences is that you >>>>> are fluent or somewhat fluent in several languages but you speak none of >>>>> them perfectly, including your native tongue.

    I grew up in New Orleans, which has its own accent, nothing like the
    South. It's sometimes called "Yat", from the Aloha-like greeting
    "Where yat?" which is properly answered by "Where yat?"

    And I married a Cajun girl. The Cajuns have their own language and
    accent. Two islands of weirdness that just happen to be in the south.


    I can probably understand the cajun dialect. It's close to French.

    Jeroen Belleman

    I've been told that Parisians can't communicate with Cajuns.

    But the Cajun language is rare now. In WWII, draftees had to be sent
    to English language schools.

    The food is good, but very hot. My daddy-in-law used to grow the
    cayenne peppers for Tobasco sauce. People wear gloves to pick them.

    Ha! Parisians are notorious for refusing to understand anyone who
    doesn't talk just like them!

    Jeroen Belleman

    I noticed that. In the little towns scattered around France, people
    were friendly and smiled and tried talking in mixed franglais,
    whatever we could manage. The food was better too.

    Paris is grim and grand and grey, kinda like New York City.

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