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    From =?UTF-8?B?Q2FybCBJamFtZXM=?=@21:1/5 to Liz Tuddenham on Thu Nov 28 16:58:11 2024
    On Thu Nov 28 10:36:08 2024 liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
    Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Tue, 26 Nov 2024 22:27:12 +0000, Liz Tuddenham wrote:

    john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Tue, 26 Nov 2024 07:51:04 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
    (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

    Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Mon, 25 Nov 2024 10:21:56 +0000, Liz Tuddenham wrote:

    Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 18:22:22 +0000, Liz Tuddenham wrote:

    Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    [...]
    the English and American "billion" was harmonised many years
    ago at one thousand million so there's no confusion.

    Can you give a reference for that? I haven't found one.

    Try this:
    https://www.thenakedscientists.com/articles/questions/why-are-uk- and-
    american-billions-different

    It just repeats the myth but doesn't give a reference.

    It's not a myth. UK and US billions have been harmonized at
    1,000,000,000 for as long as I can remember now. As I recall, it was >> >> just done simply via adoption rather than any Act of Parliament or
    Statutory Instrument. IIRC, I think the pressure to do so came from >> >> the finance industry.

    Do you have a reference that isn't just heresay?

    You can go to BBC.com and search for stories with "billions". They
    obviously mean 1e9.

    That is not evidence that the two have been harmonised, it just shows that BBC journalists have adopted American terminology.

    To harmonise two systems requires formal discussion, decision and documentation and neither you nor I have found any evidence of that.

    Fine believe whatever delusions you want to believe but it doesn't change the fact that a UK billion today is one thousand million. Period.

    You have still produced no no proof for your original assertion that the
    UK billion has been harmonised with the US billion, which was the point
    in question. Common misusage does not alter the facts.

    Gas is not stored in Gasometers.
    UK pylons do not carry a current of 132,000 volts.
    The "Morse Code" was not invented by Morse.

    ...the fact that most people, including journalists at the BBC, get it
    wrong doesn't make it right..


    --
    ~ Liz Tuddenham ~
    (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
    www.poppyrecords.co.uk


    Some online searching revealed that the current institution for setting standards in the UK is the BSI, British Standards Institute, which is a chapter of ISO. Doing a search for bsi billion standard definition gave this (probably AI aided) summary:

    [quote]
    BSI Billion Standard Definition

    Based on the provided search results, here is a concise answer to the query bsi standard billion definition :

    According to the British Standards Institution (BSI), a billion has two distinct definitions:

    Short scale: 1,000,000,000 (one thousand million) - This is the most commonly used definition in modern English, including American English.
    Long scale: 1,000,000,000,000 (one million million or one milliard) - This definition was historically used in British English, but is no longer commonly used.

    The BSI does not have a specific standard for the definition of a billion, as it follows international conventions and norms. The organization s focus is on developing and publishing standards for various industries and sectors, rather than defining
    fundamental mathematical concepts like numbers.

    In summary, the BSI does not have a unique standard definition for a billion, as it conforms to international usage and norms, which define a billion as 1,000,000,000 (one thousand million) on the short scale.
    [/quote]

    I also found this link: https://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-61424,00.html which includes this response:

    [quote]
    In 1975 Chancellor Denis Healey announced that the treasury would adopt the US billion thenceforth. Presuambly at the same time what was a billion became a trillion - after all, UK inflation was at its highest whilst he was the incumbent of Number 11!

    Jeff Vagg, Beckenham, UK
    [/quote]

    After that you are on your own again, that's as far as boredom on Thanksgiving morning can take me :-).


    --
    Regards,
    Carl

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