• OT genetics

    From john larkin@21:1/5 to All on Thu Nov 21 15:40:41 2024
    I was observing that some people can't stand mayonnaise (I like it)
    and some people hate cilantro (I detest it. I carry tweezers to pick
    small bits out of my Mexican food.)

    One of my guys is the opposite, hates mayo and loves cilantro. He
    suggested that there may be a one common gene for both cases.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From chrisq@21:1/5 to john larkin on Fri Nov 22 00:58:24 2024
    On 11/21/24 23:40, john larkin wrote:
    I was observing that some people can't stand mayonnaise (I like it)
    and some people hate cilantro (I detest it. I carry tweezers to pick
    small bits out of my Mexican food.)

    One of my guys is the opposite, hates mayo and loves cilantro. He
    suggested that there may be a one common gene for both cases.


    Most of that is probably early family life, conditioning and neurosis.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to chrisq on Thu Nov 21 17:48:42 2024
    On Fri, 22 Nov 2024 00:58:24 +0000, chrisq <devzero@nospam.com> wrote:

    On 11/21/24 23:40, john larkin wrote:
    I was observing that some people can't stand mayonnaise (I like it)
    and some people hate cilantro (I detest it. I carry tweezers to pick
    small bits out of my Mexican food.)

    One of my guys is the opposite, hates mayo and loves cilantro. He
    suggested that there may be a one common gene for both cases.


    Most of that is probably early family life, conditioning and neurosis.

    The cilantro thing is known to be genetic.

    Not enough research has been done on mayo.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Jeff Layman@21:1/5 to john larkin on Fri Nov 22 08:54:13 2024
    On 21/11/2024 23:40, john larkin wrote:
    I was observing that some people can't stand mayonnaise (I like it)
    and some people hate cilantro (I detest it. I carry tweezers to pick
    small bits out of my Mexican food.)

    One of my guys is the opposite, hates mayo and loves cilantro. He
    suggested that there may be a one common gene for both cases.

    I'd have thought a common gene for such diverse flavours to be very
    unlikely. I find mayo quite acceptable, if rather bland. Cilantro
    (called coriander elsewhere) has a taste which I'm not keen on. I'll
    tolerate it, but I'd rather it isn't there as it tends to overpower any
    other flavour in a dish. I do like coriander seeds, though.

    --
    Jeff

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to chrisq on Fri Nov 22 05:11:39 2024
    On 11/21/2024 5:58 PM, chrisq wrote:
    Most of that is probably early family life, conditioning and neurosis.

    That's probably a big part of it. Most (US) families have
    diets that were the result of their (european?) ancestors
    eating styles. So, what the folks in one house found acceptable
    may be entirely different from that for folks in another.

    Even if the principals in those houses came from the same
    original family!

    I can recall sharing meals I'd prepared with friends, at
    school, and they looked at their plate as if to say, "What
    the hell is THIS?" Yet, it would have been a common
    meal in the household in which I was raised.

    Some of the foods that I grew up with I was later exposed to
    prepared in a different manner. Same food, radically different
    taste! How much of that do we lay at the foot of the preparer?

    Also, it's worth noting that one can be tolerant of a
    particular food without actually DESIRING it. Else, we
    would all be eating pizza and ice cream for every meal!

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  • From legg@21:1/5 to All on Fri Nov 22 08:31:02 2024
    On Fri, 22 Nov 2024 08:54:13 +0000, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid>
    wrote:

    On 21/11/2024 23:40, john larkin wrote:
    I was observing that some people can't stand mayonnaise (I like it)
    and some people hate cilantro (I detest it. I carry tweezers to pick
    small bits out of my Mexican food.)

    One of my guys is the opposite, hates mayo and loves cilantro. He
    suggested that there may be a one common gene for both cases.

    I'd have thought a common gene for such diverse flavours to be very
    unlikely. I find mayo quite acceptable, if rather bland. Cilantro
    (called coriander elsewhere) has a taste which I'm not keen on. I'll
    tolerate it, but I'd rather it isn't there as it tends to overpower any
    other flavour in a dish. I do like coriander seeds, though.

    Coriander is the seed - cilantro the leaf.

    RL

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From legg@21:1/5 to All on Fri Nov 22 08:26:17 2024
    On Thu, 21 Nov 2024 15:40:41 -0800, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
    wrote:

    I was observing that some people can't stand mayonnaise (I like it)
    and some people hate cilantro (I detest it. I carry tweezers to pick
    small bits out of my Mexican food.)

    One of my guys is the opposite, hates mayo and loves cilantro. He
    suggested that there may be a one common gene for both cases.

    OT? Is it EVER!

    RL

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to legg on Fri Nov 22 07:22:03 2024
    On Fri, 22 Nov 2024 08:26:17 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

    On Thu, 21 Nov 2024 15:40:41 -0800, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
    wrote:

    I was observing that some people can't stand mayonnaise (I like it)
    and some people hate cilantro (I detest it. I carry tweezers to pick
    small bits out of my Mexican food.)

    One of my guys is the opposite, hates mayo and loves cilantro. He
    suggested that there may be a one common gene for both cases.

    OT? Is it EVER!

    RL

    Design any cool electronics lately?

    I'm doing power dummy loads that simulate impedances, but I can't
    discuss that in detail.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to blockedofcourse@foo.invalid on Fri Nov 22 07:18:00 2024
    On Fri, 22 Nov 2024 05:11:39 -0700, Don Y
    <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

    On 11/21/2024 5:58 PM, chrisq wrote:
    Most of that is probably early family life, conditioning and neurosis.

    That's probably a big part of it. Most (US) families have
    diets that were the result of their (european?) ancestors
    eating styles. So, what the folks in one house found acceptable
    may be entirely different from that for folks in another.

    Around here, kids expect sushi, thai, cantonese, Indian, Hawaiian,
    cajun, bacon, tofu, pizza, and fish sticks.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Edward Rawde@21:1/5 to john larkin on Fri Nov 22 11:48:43 2024
    "john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message news:q681kjdirnfilb14t6ql3622fd5r1pubqq@4ax.com...
    On Fri, 22 Nov 2024 08:26:17 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

    On Thu, 21 Nov 2024 15:40:41 -0800, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> >>wrote:

    I was observing that some people can't stand mayonnaise (I like it)
    and some people hate cilantro (I detest it. I carry tweezers to pick >>>small bits out of my Mexican food.)

    One of my guys is the opposite, hates mayo and loves cilantro. He >>>suggested that there may be a one common gene for both cases.

    OT? Is it EVER!

    RL

    Design any cool electronics lately?

    I'm doing power dummy loads that simulate impedances, but I can't
    discuss that in detail.

    I've seen people use a simple relay and resistor to load a power rail down at power off.
    The relay drops out and connects a resistor which doesn't have to be a very high power resistor because it's only connected for a
    short time.
    This does have the issue that the resistor is connected at power on until the relay energizes.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to john larkin on Fri Nov 22 18:03:31 2024
    On Fri, 22 Nov 2024 07:22:03 -0800, john larkin wrote:

    On Fri, 22 Nov 2024 08:26:17 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

    On Thu, 21 Nov 2024 15:40:41 -0800, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> >>wrote:

    I was observing that some people can't stand mayonnaise (I like it) and >>>some people hate cilantro (I detest it. I carry tweezers to pick small >>>bits out of my Mexican food.)

    One of my guys is the opposite, hates mayo and loves cilantro. He >>>suggested that there may be a one common gene for both cases.

    OT? Is it EVER!

    RL

    Design any cool electronics lately?

    I'm doing power dummy loads that simulate impedances, but I can't
    discuss that in detail.

    Shame. Sounds interesting.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to Jeff Layman on Fri Nov 22 18:01:35 2024
    On Fri, 22 Nov 2024 08:54:13 +0000, Jeff Layman wrote:

    On 21/11/2024 23:40, john larkin wrote:
    I was observing that some people can't stand mayonnaise (I like it) and
    some people hate cilantro (I detest it. I carry tweezers to pick small
    bits out of my Mexican food.)

    One of my guys is the opposite, hates mayo and loves cilantro. He
    suggested that there may be a one common gene for both cases.

    I'd have thought a common gene for such diverse flavours to be very
    unlikely. I find mayo quite acceptable, if rather bland. Cilantro
    (called coriander elsewhere) has a taste which I'm not keen on. I'll
    tolerate it, but I'd rather it isn't there as it tends to overpower any
    other flavour in a dish. I do like coriander seeds, though.

    There's a yeast extract spread in the UK called Marmite which completely divides people over its taste. Research has shown that there *is* a
    genetic component which determines whether individuals love it or hate it.
    So I'd not be the least surprised if John's experience is also governed by genes.

    https://www.fqmagazine.co.uk/lifestyle/food-and-drink/item/10691-marmite- love-hate-gene.html

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to invalid@invalid.invalid on Fri Nov 22 12:09:10 2024
    On Fri, 22 Nov 2024 11:48:43 -0500, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message news:q681kjdirnfilb14t6ql3622fd5r1pubqq@4ax.com...
    On Fri, 22 Nov 2024 08:26:17 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

    On Thu, 21 Nov 2024 15:40:41 -0800, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> >>>wrote:

    I was observing that some people can't stand mayonnaise (I like it)
    and some people hate cilantro (I detest it. I carry tweezers to pick >>>>small bits out of my Mexican food.)

    One of my guys is the opposite, hates mayo and loves cilantro. He >>>>suggested that there may be a one common gene for both cases.

    OT? Is it EVER!

    RL

    Design any cool electronics lately?

    I'm doing power dummy loads that simulate impedances, but I can't
    discuss that in detail.

    I've seen people use a simple relay and resistor to load a power rail down at power off.
    The relay drops out and connects a resistor which doesn't have to be a very high power resistor because it's only connected for a
    short time.
    This does have the issue that the resistor is connected at power on until the relay energizes.



    I can imagine a simple circuit that turns a mosfet on for a second
    when power goes away.

    I sometimes use depletion fets across a power rail, to make a linear
    discharge with modest dissipation. An LED in the drain is fun.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to cd999666@notformail.com on Fri Nov 22 12:15:51 2024
    On Fri, 22 Nov 2024 18:03:31 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Fri, 22 Nov 2024 07:22:03 -0800, john larkin wrote:

    On Fri, 22 Nov 2024 08:26:17 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

    On Thu, 21 Nov 2024 15:40:41 -0800, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> >>>wrote:

    I was observing that some people can't stand mayonnaise (I like it) and >>>>some people hate cilantro (I detest it. I carry tweezers to pick small >>>>bits out of my Mexican food.)

    One of my guys is the opposite, hates mayo and loves cilantro. He >>>>suggested that there may be a one common gene for both cases.

    OT? Is it EVER!

    RL

    Design any cool electronics lately?

    I'm doing power dummy loads that simulate impedances, but I can't
    discuss that in detail.

    Shame. Sounds interesting.

    What's embarassing is that I discovered the circuit by accident,
    fiddling in Spice, and I still don't really understand it.

    I guess, as an engineer, I don't have to understand it, I just have to
    make it work.

    There are lots of companies who make R+L load boxes by switching real
    resistors and inductors with relays. Most are forklift portable. The
    really big ones dump the incoming power back into the AC line somehow.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to john larkin on Fri Nov 22 23:28:06 2024
    On Fri, 22 Nov 2024 12:15:51 -0800, john larkin wrote:

    On Fri, 22 Nov 2024 18:03:31 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Fri, 22 Nov 2024 07:22:03 -0800, john larkin wrote:

    On Fri, 22 Nov 2024 08:26:17 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

    On Thu, 21 Nov 2024 15:40:41 -0800, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> >>>>wrote:

    I was observing that some people can't stand mayonnaise (I like it) >>>>>and some people hate cilantro (I detest it. I carry tweezers to pick >>>>>small bits out of my Mexican food.)

    One of my guys is the opposite, hates mayo and loves cilantro. He >>>>>suggested that there may be a one common gene for both cases.

    OT? Is it EVER!

    RL

    Design any cool electronics lately?

    I'm doing power dummy loads that simulate impedances, but I can't
    discuss that in detail.

    Shame. Sounds interesting.

    What's embarassing is that I discovered the circuit by accident,
    fiddling in Spice, and I still don't really understand it.

    I guess, as an engineer, I don't have to understand it, I just have to
    make it work.

    There are lots of companies who make R+L load boxes by switching real resistors and inductors with relays. Most are forklift portable. The
    really big ones dump the incoming power back into the AC line somehow.

    So long as it's in phase there should be no issues in doing this, I'd
    imagine? Anyway, you can't discuss it for perfectly understandable
    reasons, so I won't ask any stoopid questions.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeff Layman@21:1/5 to legg on Sat Nov 23 08:47:11 2024
    On 22/11/2024 13:31, legg wrote:

    Coriander is the seed - cilantro the leaf.

    Not on this side of the pond. The word "cilantro" is almost unused here,
    other than it's been picked up from internet searches. We'd just use
    "coriander leaf".

    --
    Jeff

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Martin Brown@21:1/5 to john larkin on Sat Nov 23 14:11:20 2024
    On 21/11/2024 23:40, john larkin wrote:
    I was observing that some people can't stand mayonnaise (I like it)
    and some people hate cilantro (I detest it. I carry tweezers to pick
    small bits out of my Mexican food.)

    There are a handful of compounds for which there seems to be a clear
    single genetic variation that determines if you can taste it or not or
    if it seems unpleasant. Mostly they are on the bitter receptors. Which
    is relevant to "cilantro" (sic) which in the ROW is called coriander.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coriander#Taste_and_smell

    It appears to hinge critically on how you perceive the unsaturated
    aldehydes that form when it is bruised or crushed.

    A certain amount of scrambling of some unlucky people's sense of taste
    and smell occurred due to Covid infections which apparently did
    something nasty to the nerve endings or receptors in the nose.

    Mayonnaise is more about the texture and mouthfeel than anything else.

    One of the weirdest taste sensations is shiso leaf (perilla in the mint
    family) with sushi/sashimi in Japan that actually tastes like a smell.

    One of my guys is the opposite, hates mayo and loves cilantro. He
    suggested that there may be a one common gene for both cases.

    Highly unlikely. The known ones that are probably single gene mutations
    are extremely specific to a very narrow class of compounds like the one
    that makes sprouts taste incredibly bitter to some people, and likewise
    for Warfarin (in humans and in rats).

    https://warwick.ac.uk/newsandevents/pressreleases/scientists_reveal_why/

    I have weak anecdotal evidence for a possible sex linked master on/off
    switch for sense of taste/smell. Most of the women on my mothers side
    can't taste anything much except for one cousin who like me is a super
    taster. I can identify many common organic chemicals by smell alone and
    can smell things that are too weak for others to even notice.

    I could tell that I had Covid before I took the test to confirm because
    it didn't smell right for a common cold. I was lucky my sense of smell
    remained unharmed. Some professional chefs were very unlucky with it.

    --
    Martin Brown

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From legg@21:1/5 to john larkin on Sat Nov 23 10:36:50 2024
    On Fri, 22 Nov 2024 07:22:03 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Fri, 22 Nov 2024 08:26:17 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

    On Thu, 21 Nov 2024 15:40:41 -0800, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> >>wrote:

    I was observing that some people can't stand mayonnaise (I like it)
    and some people hate cilantro (I detest it. I carry tweezers to pick >>>small bits out of my Mexican food.)

    One of my guys is the opposite, hates mayo and loves cilantro. He >>>suggested that there may be a one common gene for both cases.

    OT? Is it EVER!

    RL

    Design any cool electronics lately?

    I'm doing power dummy loads that simulate impedances, but I can't
    discuss that in detail.

    The only kind of 'load' that's 'cool' is one that recovers
    energy to the source. Loads that are cheap, disposable and
    commonly used will be thrown together from off the shelf
    crap drawing on HVAC catalog parts and operated by meat
    puppets on the production floor, long after the 'designer'
    blows his head off in an off-season motel room.

    You may not have noticed it, with your mouth on the govt.
    military tit, but light mfring in North America has been in
    the toilet for >30 yrs. New product development followed
    mfring, off-shore; their domestic hulks stripped for assets
    and property values by pointy heads that, having got the
    value out and loaned it back to us, three times over, are
    playing Barbie with the political body.

    I suppose there's at least some compensation; that you can
    keep your kids and a few grads employed in your dotage.

    If the chinese are going to make it, then that's where the
    new designs should be going, so we don't end up buried in
    electronic kibble. You can put 300% tarrifs on chinese
    stuff and the ticket value will still be half that of
    local produce.

    We all spin our own legends, to some extent. Having no
    access to silicon fab, I've pretty much given up on
    normally-off self-driven synchronous rectifiers.
    There's always something that needs fixing around the
    neighborhood, or somebody building stuff around second-
    hand chinese batteries.

    Lately I've been working on a digital version of a vanity
    publication (Y2K) covering cooperative beekeeping and
    honey marketing organization/development in the '30s and
    '40s. Cooperatives tend to get targeted by 'free enterprise'
    money - few have survived. In the 30's, there were gov't.
    departments (2-man) who's job it was to assist in their
    development, as the then-current system was basically
    beating primary producers to death.

    Perhaps similar thinking could be applied to secondary
    industries.

    Beekeeping itself is facing major threats from many different
    directions these days, none of which are relevant in SED.

    Genetically determined preference for mayonaise? Give us
    a break.

    RL




    Waning traffic on this forum simply reflects that lack of
    involvement.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to legg on Sat Nov 23 11:55:46 2024
    On Sat, 23 Nov 2024 10:36:50 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

    On Fri, 22 Nov 2024 07:22:03 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Fri, 22 Nov 2024 08:26:17 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

    On Thu, 21 Nov 2024 15:40:41 -0800, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> >>>wrote:

    I was observing that some people can't stand mayonnaise (I like it)
    and some people hate cilantro (I detest it. I carry tweezers to pick >>>>small bits out of my Mexican food.)

    One of my guys is the opposite, hates mayo and loves cilantro. He >>>>suggested that there may be a one common gene for both cases.

    OT? Is it EVER!

    RL

    Design any cool electronics lately?

    I'm doing power dummy loads that simulate impedances, but I can't
    discuss that in detail.

    The only kind of 'load' that's 'cool' is one that recovers
    energy to the source. Loads that are cheap, disposable and
    commonly used will be thrown together from off the shelf
    crap drawing on HVAC catalog parts and operated by meat
    puppets on the production floor, long after the 'designer'
    blows his head off in an off-season motel room.

    Yes, an inductive or capacitive load has to at least pretend to return
    energy it got from the customer. A good inductor simulator has to do
    that, and tolerate bipolar PWM inputs, and behave like a real inductor
    to diode or zener clamped flybacks.




    You may not have noticed it, with your mouth on the govt.
    military tit

    Don't be a jerk. All sorts of people buy our stuff.



    , but light mfring in North America has been in
    the toilet for >30 yrs. New product development followed
    mfring, off-shore; their domestic hulks stripped for assets
    and property values by pointy heads that, having got the
    value out and loaned it back to us, three times over, are
    playing Barbie with the political body.

    I suppose there's at least some compensation; that you can
    keep your kids and a few grads employed in your dotage.

    Jerk.


    If the chinese are going to make it, then that's where the
    new designs should be going, so we don't end up buried in
    electronic kibble. You can put 300% tarrifs on chinese
    stuff and the ticket value will still be half that of
    local produce.

    We all spin our own legends, to some extent. Having no
    access to silicon fab, I've pretty much given up on
    normally-off self-driven synchronous rectifiers.
    There's always something that needs fixing around the
    neighborhood, or somebody building stuff around second-
    hand chinese batteries.

    Lately I've been working on a digital version of a vanity
    publication (Y2K) covering cooperative beekeeping and
    honey marketing organization/development in the '30s and
    '40s. Cooperatives tend to get targeted by 'free enterprise'
    money - few have survived. In the 30's, there were gov't.
    departments (2-man) who's job it was to assist in their
    development, as the then-current system was basically
    beating primary producers to death.

    Perhaps similar thinking could be applied to secondary
    industries.

    Beekeeping itself is facing major threats from many different
    directions these days, none of which are relevant in SED.

    Genetically determined preference for mayonaise? Give us
    a break.

    RL




    Waning traffic on this forum simply reflects that lack of
    involvement.

    And of civility. Hint hint.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From legg@21:1/5 to john larkin on Sun Nov 24 07:38:12 2024
    On Sat, 23 Nov 2024 11:55:46 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Sat, 23 Nov 2024 10:36:50 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

    On Fri, 22 Nov 2024 07:22:03 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Fri, 22 Nov 2024 08:26:17 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

    On Thu, 21 Nov 2024 15:40:41 -0800, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> >>>>wrote:

    I was observing that some people can't stand mayonnaise (I like it) >>>>>and some people hate cilantro (I detest it. I carry tweezers to pick >>>>>small bits out of my Mexican food.)

    One of my guys is the opposite, hates mayo and loves cilantro. He >>>>>suggested that there may be a one common gene for both cases.

    OT? Is it EVER!

    RL

    Design any cool electronics lately?

    I'm doing power dummy loads that simulate impedances, but I can't
    discuss that in detail.

    The only kind of 'load' that's 'cool' is one that recovers
    energy to the source. Loads that are cheap, disposable and
    commonly used will be thrown together from off the shelf
    crap drawing on HVAC catalog parts and operated by meat
    puppets on the production floor, long after the 'designer'
    blows his head off in an off-season motel room.

    Yes, an inductive or capacitive load has to at least pretend to return
    energy it got from the customer. A good inductor simulator has to do
    that, and tolerate bipolar PWM inputs, and behave like a real inductor
    to diode or zener clamped flybacks.




    You may not have noticed it, with your mouth on the govt.
    military tit

    Don't be a jerk. All sorts of people buy our stuff.

    When I think about it, there weren't many projects I
    worked on after 1909 that didn't involve government
    money. That at least covered my hours - a lot of
    record keeping under a program with an acronym,
    as I recall ~ SRED.

    Don't know that customers for the final product had
    any similar advantage. Careful separation of 'research'
    from (gasp) manufacturing.



    , but light mfring in North America has been in
    the toilet for >30 yrs. New product development followed
    mfring, off-shore; their domestic hulks stripped for assets
    and property values by pointy heads that, having got the
    value out and loaned it back to us, three times over, are
    playing Barbie with the political body.

    I suppose there's at least some compensation; that you can
    keep your kids and a few grads employed in your dotage.

    Jerk.

    Sorry. I try to keep my mouth shut most of the time, but it
    was failing to maneuver transformation into an 'employer'
    role some years ago that really pointed out the generational
    differences showing up in the industry.

    I envy anypne who managed it. Driving a single desk/bench
    is kid's stuff.

    If the chinese are going to make it, then that's where the
    new designs should be going, so we don't end up buried in
    electronic kibble. You can put 300% tarrifs on chinese
    stuff and the ticket value will still be half that of
    local produce.

    We all spin our own legends, to some extent. Having no
    access to silicon fab, I've pretty much given up on
    normally-off self-driven synchronous rectifiers.
    There's always something that needs fixing around the
    neighborhood, or somebody building stuff around second-
    hand chinese batteries.

    Lately I've been working on a digital version of a vanity
    publication (Y2K) covering cooperative beekeeping and
    honey marketing organization/development in the '30s and
    '40s. Cooperatives tend to get targeted by 'free enterprise'
    money - few have survived. In the 30's, there were gov't.
    departments (2-man) who's job it was to assist in their
    development, as the then-current system was basically
    beating primary producers to death.

    Perhaps similar thinking could be applied to secondary
    industries.

    Beekeeping itself is facing major threats from many different
    directions these days, none of which are relevant in SED.

    Genetically determined preference for mayonaise? Give us
    a break.

    RL




    Waning traffic on this forum simply reflects that lack of
    involvement.

    And of civility. Hint hint.

    Holding hands under the moon in June never got product
    out the door on time and under budget.

    RL

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From legg@21:1/5 to john larkin on Sun Nov 24 08:14:30 2024
    On Sat, 23 Nov 2024 11:55:46 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Sat, 23 Nov 2024 10:36:50 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

    On Fri, 22 Nov 2024 07:22:03 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Fri, 22 Nov 2024 08:26:17 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

    On Thu, 21 Nov 2024 15:40:41 -0800, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> >>>>wrote:

    I was observing that some people can't stand mayonnaise (I like it) >>>>>and some people hate cilantro (I detest it. I carry tweezers to pick >>>>>small bits out of my Mexican food.)

    One of my guys is the opposite, hates mayo and loves cilantro. He >>>>>suggested that there may be a one common gene for both cases.

    OT? Is it EVER!

    RL

    Design any cool electronics lately?

    I'm doing power dummy loads that simulate impedances, but I can't
    discuss that in detail.

    The only kind of 'load' that's 'cool' is one that recovers
    energy to the source. Loads that are cheap, disposable and
    commonly used will be thrown together from off the shelf
    crap drawing on HVAC catalog parts and operated by meat
    puppets on the production floor, long after the 'designer'
    blows his head off in an off-season motel room.

    Yes, an inductive or capacitive load has to at least pretend to return
    energy it got from the customer. A good inductor simulator has to do
    that, and tolerate bipolar PWM inputs, and behave like a real inductor
    to diode or zener clamped flybacks.
    <snip>

    Storage shouldn't be an issue, but that and return delivery
    will be lass efficient that the real thing, which could
    inevitably reflect on size. It's surface temperature rize
    that determines this on the real inductor, too, so . . .

    Which isn't saying it won't weigh less.

    The difference in efficiency will determine how much juice
    has to be drawn from an external source, for steady state.

    Loads are ~infrastructure. The important thing is that the
    product that's actually being tested/stressed sees a
    realistic and effective environment.

    Rl

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to legg on Sun Nov 24 07:46:32 2024
    On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 07:38:12 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

    On Sat, 23 Nov 2024 11:55:46 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Sat, 23 Nov 2024 10:36:50 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

    On Fri, 22 Nov 2024 07:22:03 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Fri, 22 Nov 2024 08:26:17 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

    On Thu, 21 Nov 2024 15:40:41 -0800, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> >>>>>wrote:

    I was observing that some people can't stand mayonnaise (I like it) >>>>>>and some people hate cilantro (I detest it. I carry tweezers to pick >>>>>>small bits out of my Mexican food.)

    One of my guys is the opposite, hates mayo and loves cilantro. He >>>>>>suggested that there may be a one common gene for both cases.

    OT? Is it EVER!

    RL

    Design any cool electronics lately?

    I'm doing power dummy loads that simulate impedances, but I can't >>>>discuss that in detail.

    The only kind of 'load' that's 'cool' is one that recovers
    energy to the source. Loads that are cheap, disposable and
    commonly used will be thrown together from off the shelf
    crap drawing on HVAC catalog parts and operated by meat
    puppets on the production floor, long after the 'designer'
    blows his head off in an off-season motel room.

    Yes, an inductive or capacitive load has to at least pretend to return >>energy it got from the customer. A good inductor simulator has to do
    that, and tolerate bipolar PWM inputs, and behave like a real inductor
    to diode or zener clamped flybacks.




    You may not have noticed it, with your mouth on the govt.
    military tit

    Don't be a jerk. All sorts of people buy our stuff.

    When I think about it, there weren't many projects I
    worked on after 1909 that didn't involve government
    money. That at least covered my hours - a lot of
    record keeping under a program with an acronym,
    as I recall ~ SRED.

    Don't know that customers for the final product had
    any similar advantage. Careful separation of 'research'
    from (gasp) manufacturing.



    , but light mfring in North America has been in
    the toilet for >30 yrs. New product development followed
    mfring, off-shore; their domestic hulks stripped for assets
    and property values by pointy heads that, having got the
    value out and loaned it back to us, three times over, are
    playing Barbie with the political body.

    I suppose there's at least some compensation; that you can
    keep your kids and a few grads employed in your dotage.

    Jerk.

    Sorry. I try to keep my mouth shut most of the time, but it
    was failing to maneuver transformation into an 'employer'
    role some years ago that really pointed out the generational
    differences showing up in the industry.

    I envy anypne who managed it. Driving a single desk/bench
    is kid's stuff.

    If the chinese are going to make it, then that's where the
    new designs should be going, so we don't end up buried in
    electronic kibble. You can put 300% tarrifs on chinese
    stuff and the ticket value will still be half that of
    local produce.

    We all spin our own legends, to some extent. Having no
    access to silicon fab, I've pretty much given up on
    normally-off self-driven synchronous rectifiers.
    There's always something that needs fixing around the
    neighborhood, or somebody building stuff around second-
    hand chinese batteries.

    Lately I've been working on a digital version of a vanity
    publication (Y2K) covering cooperative beekeeping and
    honey marketing organization/development in the '30s and
    '40s. Cooperatives tend to get targeted by 'free enterprise'
    money - few have survived. In the 30's, there were gov't.
    departments (2-man) who's job it was to assist in their
    development, as the then-current system was basically
    beating primary producers to death.

    Perhaps similar thinking could be applied to secondary
    industries.

    Beekeeping itself is facing major threats from many different
    directions these days, none of which are relevant in SED.

    Genetically determined preference for mayonaise? Give us
    a break.

    RL




    Waning traffic on this forum simply reflects that lack of
    involvement.

    And of civility. Hint hint.

    Holding hands under the moon in June never got product
    out the door on time and under budget.

    RL

    Being stubborn, needing to be right, refusing to change course,
    rejecting unorthodox ideas, always believing data sheets, all wreck
    designs.

    There is at least a 5:1 ratio in productivity between good design
    groups and pathological ones, and most are pathological.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bill Sloman@21:1/5 to john larkin on Mon Nov 25 12:43:12 2024
    On 25/11/2024 2:46 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 07:38:12 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

    On Sat, 23 Nov 2024 11:55:46 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Sat, 23 Nov 2024 10:36:50 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

    On Fri, 22 Nov 2024 07:22:03 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Fri, 22 Nov 2024 08:26:17 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote: >>>>>
    On Thu, 21 Nov 2024 15:40:41 -0800, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> >>>>>> wrote:

    I was observing that some people can't stand mayonnaise (I like it) >>>>>>> and some people hate cilantro (I detest it. I carry tweezers to pick >>>>>>> small bits out of my Mexican food.)

    One of my guys is the opposite, hates mayo and loves cilantro. He >>>>>>> suggested that there may be a one common gene for both cases.

    OT? Is it EVER!

    RL

    Design any cool electronics lately?

    I'm doing power dummy loads that simulate impedances, but I can't
    discuss that in detail.

    The only kind of 'load' that's 'cool' is one that recovers
    energy to the source. Loads that are cheap, disposable and
    commonly used will be thrown together from off the shelf
    crap drawing on HVAC catalog parts and operated by meat
    puppets on the production floor, long after the 'designer'
    blows his head off in an off-season motel room.

    Yes, an inductive or capacitive load has to at least pretend to return
    energy it got from the customer. A good inductor simulator has to do
    that, and tolerate bipolar PWM inputs, and behave like a real inductor
    to diode or zener clamped flybacks.




    You may not have noticed it, with your mouth on the govt.
    military tit

    Don't be a jerk. All sorts of people buy our stuff.

    When I think about it, there weren't many projects I
    worked on after 1909 that didn't involve government
    money. That at least covered my hours - a lot of
    record keeping under a program with an acronym,
    as I recall ~ SRED.

    Don't know that customers for the final product had
    any similar advantage. Careful separation of 'research'
    from (gasp) manufacturing.



    , but light mfring in North America has been in
    the toilet for >30 yrs. New product development followed
    mfring, off-shore; their domestic hulks stripped for assets
    and property values by pointy heads that, having got the
    value out and loaned it back to us, three times over, are
    playing Barbie with the political body.

    I suppose there's at least some compensation; that you can
    keep your kids and a few grads employed in your dotage.

    Jerk.

    Sorry. I try to keep my mouth shut most of the time, but it
    was failing to maneuver transformation into an 'employer'
    role some years ago that really pointed out the generational
    differences showing up in the industry.

    I envy anypne who managed it. Driving a single desk/bench
    is kid's stuff.

    If the chinese are going to make it, then that's where the
    new designs should be going, so we don't end up buried in
    electronic kibble. You can put 300% tarrifs on chinese
    stuff and the ticket value will still be half that of
    local produce.

    We all spin our own legends, to some extent. Having no
    access to silicon fab, I've pretty much given up on
    normally-off self-driven synchronous rectifiers.
    There's always something that needs fixing around the
    neighborhood, or somebody building stuff around second-
    hand chinese batteries.

    Lately I've been working on a digital version of a vanity
    publication (Y2K) covering cooperative beekeeping and
    honey marketing organization/development in the '30s and
    '40s. Cooperatives tend to get targeted by 'free enterprise'
    money - few have survived. In the 30's, there were gov't.
    departments (2-man) who's job it was to assist in their
    development, as the then-current system was basically
    beating primary producers to death.

    Perhaps similar thinking could be applied to secondary
    industries.

    Beekeeping itself is facing major threats from many different
    directions these days, none of which are relevant in SED.

    Genetically determined preference for mayonaise? Give us
    a break.

    RL




    Waning traffic on this forum simply reflects that lack of
    involvement.

    And of civility. Hint hint.

    Holding hands under the moon in June never got product
    out the door on time and under budget.

    RL

    Being stubborn, needing to be right, refusing to change course,
    rejecting unorthodox ideas, always believing data sheets, all wreck
    designs.

    Not as effectively as being a weather-cock, not worrying about getting
    stuff right, accepting half-baked idea, and ignoring data sheets.

    There is at least a 5:1 ratio in productivity between good design
    groups and pathological ones, and most are pathological.

    All are different, and people who worry about productivity, rather than
    about producing good designs do tend to be pathological.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From legg@21:1/5 to john larkin on Mon Nov 25 07:40:48 2024
    On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 07:46:32 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 07:38:12 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

    On Sat, 23 Nov 2024 11:55:46 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Sat, 23 Nov 2024 10:36:50 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

    On Fri, 22 Nov 2024 07:22:03 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Fri, 22 Nov 2024 08:26:17 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote: >>>>>
    On Thu, 21 Nov 2024 15:40:41 -0800, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> >>>>>>wrote:

    I was observing that some people can't stand mayonnaise (I like it) >>>>>>>and some people hate cilantro (I detest it. I carry tweezers to pick >>>>>>>small bits out of my Mexican food.)

    One of my guys is the opposite, hates mayo and loves cilantro. He >>>>>>>suggested that there may be a one common gene for both cases.

    OT? Is it EVER!

    RL

    Design any cool electronics lately?

    I'm doing power dummy loads that simulate impedances, but I can't >>>>>discuss that in detail.

    The only kind of 'load' that's 'cool' is one that recovers
    energy to the source. Loads that are cheap, disposable and
    commonly used will be thrown together from off the shelf
    crap drawing on HVAC catalog parts and operated by meat
    puppets on the production floor, long after the 'designer'
    blows his head off in an off-season motel room.

    Yes, an inductive or capacitive load has to at least pretend to return >>>energy it got from the customer. A good inductor simulator has to do >>>that, and tolerate bipolar PWM inputs, and behave like a real inductor
    to diode or zener clamped flybacks.




    You may not have noticed it, with your mouth on the govt.
    military tit

    Don't be a jerk. All sorts of people buy our stuff.

    When I think about it, there weren't many projects I
    worked on after 1909 that didn't involve government
    money. That at least covered my hours - a lot of
    record keeping under a program with an acronym,
    as I recall ~ SRED.

    Don't know that customers for the final product had
    any similar advantage. Careful separation of 'research'
    from (gasp) manufacturing.



    , but light mfring in North America has been in
    the toilet for >30 yrs. New product development followed
    mfring, off-shore; their domestic hulks stripped for assets
    and property values by pointy heads that, having got the
    value out and loaned it back to us, three times over, are
    playing Barbie with the political body.

    I suppose there's at least some compensation; that you can
    keep your kids and a few grads employed in your dotage.

    Jerk.

    Sorry. I try to keep my mouth shut most of the time, but it
    was failing to maneuver transformation into an 'employer'
    role some years ago that really pointed out the generational
    differences showing up in the industry.

    I envy anypne who managed it. Driving a single desk/bench
    is kid's stuff.

    If the chinese are going to make it, then that's where the
    new designs should be going, so we don't end up buried in
    electronic kibble. You can put 300% tarrifs on chinese
    stuff and the ticket value will still be half that of
    local produce.

    We all spin our own legends, to some extent. Having no
    access to silicon fab, I've pretty much given up on
    normally-off self-driven synchronous rectifiers.
    There's always something that needs fixing around the
    neighborhood, or somebody building stuff around second-
    hand chinese batteries.

    Lately I've been working on a digital version of a vanity
    publication (Y2K) covering cooperative beekeeping and
    honey marketing organization/development in the '30s and
    '40s. Cooperatives tend to get targeted by 'free enterprise'
    money - few have survived. In the 30's, there were gov't.
    departments (2-man) who's job it was to assist in their
    development, as the then-current system was basically
    beating primary producers to death.

    Perhaps similar thinking could be applied to secondary
    industries.

    Beekeeping itself is facing major threats from many different >>>>directions these days, none of which are relevant in SED.

    Genetically determined preference for mayonaise? Give us
    a break.

    RL




    Waning traffic on this forum simply reflects that lack of
    involvement.

    And of civility. Hint hint.

    Holding hands under the moon in June never got product
    out the door on time and under budget.

    RL

    Being stubborn, needing to be right, refusing to change course,
    rejecting unorthodox ideas, always believing data sheets, all wreck
    designs.

    There is at least a 5:1 ratio in productivity between good design
    groups and pathological ones, and most are pathological.

    I judge only by delivery on time, to spec.

    Has to be coordinated with production and test capability.

    Sales? You've got no control over that.It's where I
    found the most pathology, mainly because of a rift between
    the guys who formulated the spec and the guys who ended
    up having to flog the stuff - usually in the same dept.

    RL

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to legg on Mon Nov 25 10:18:26 2024
    On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 08:14:30 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

    On Sat, 23 Nov 2024 11:55:46 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Sat, 23 Nov 2024 10:36:50 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

    On Fri, 22 Nov 2024 07:22:03 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Fri, 22 Nov 2024 08:26:17 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

    On Thu, 21 Nov 2024 15:40:41 -0800, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> >>>>>wrote:

    I was observing that some people can't stand mayonnaise (I like it) >>>>>>and some people hate cilantro (I detest it. I carry tweezers to pick >>>>>>small bits out of my Mexican food.)

    One of my guys is the opposite, hates mayo and loves cilantro. He >>>>>>suggested that there may be a one common gene for both cases.

    OT? Is it EVER!

    RL

    Design any cool electronics lately?

    I'm doing power dummy loads that simulate impedances, but I can't >>>>discuss that in detail.

    The only kind of 'load' that's 'cool' is one that recovers
    energy to the source. Loads that are cheap, disposable and
    commonly used will be thrown together from off the shelf
    crap drawing on HVAC catalog parts and operated by meat
    puppets on the production floor, long after the 'designer'
    blows his head off in an off-season motel room.

    Yes, an inductive or capacitive load has to at least pretend to return >>energy it got from the customer. A good inductor simulator has to do
    that, and tolerate bipolar PWM inputs, and behave like a real inductor
    to diode or zener clamped flybacks.
    <snip>

    Storage shouldn't be an issue, but that and return delivery
    will be lass efficient that the real thing, which could
    inevitably reflect on size. It's surface temperature rize
    that determines this on the real inductor, too, so . . .

    An inductor simulator needn't store energy, it just has to pretend to.


    Which isn't saying it won't weigh less.

    It might weigh 0.1% of a real 20 henry 10 amp inductor.



    The difference in efficiency will determine how much juice
    has to be drawn from an external source, for steady state.

    Loads are ~infrastructure. The important thing is that the
    product that's actually being tested/stressed sees a
    realistic and effective environment.

    Fortunately, real inductors are far from ideal components, so our
    simulated ones needn't be perfect either.

    Maybe we can make them programmably bad.



    Rl

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)