On Tue, 19 Nov 2024 18:07:51 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
I'm trying to figure out the business sense of this.
It obviously costs something to implement. What is
the expected (long-term?) payback? Do they expect to
eventually allow people to READ their mail BEFORE it
is delivered? Simply knowing that <something> is
on its way doesn't really seem to be much in terms
of added value...
Informed Delivery
<https://www.usps.com/manage/informed-delivery.htm>
Informed Delivery can act as proof of delivery in case the mail or
package is stolen.
I've been told (and have not confirmed) that the
USPS photographs and archives everything that is "interesting" which
is delivered to a mailbox. Because they already do most of the work,
the added cost of giving customers access to the information is very
small.
I've been using Informed Delivery for the rural mailbox for mail
addressed to my physical home address since the service was announced.
For everything else, including packages, I use my PO Box address.
Guide to Post Office Box Street Addresses (PBSA) <https://postalpro.usps.com/PBSA> <https://postalpro.usps.com/storages/2017-02/PBSAGuide.pdf>
Street Addressing Service for Your P.O. Box <https://postalpro.usps.com/node/2728> <https://postalpro.usps.com/storages/2016-12/2728_PBSACustomerAgreement.pdf>
Mail theft was a big problem for me until I began renting a PO Box.
Unfortunately, the service costs me $216/year. My rural mailbox is
located at an inconvenient distance from my house because the letter
carrier will not deliver on my marginal owner maintained dirt road
(even though UPS, FedEx and others do deliver).
I thought I could survive without the rural mailbox and use my PO Box
for everything, but that didn't work. There are some companies
(Amazon) and government agencies who refuse to deliver to a PO Box.
When something important is delivered to my rural mailbox, I am
notified via Informed Delivery.
I then rush to the rural mailbox
before the thieves arrive. Otherwise, I wouldn't know anything had
arrived until I eventually clean out the accumulated junk mail.
I'm trying to figure out the business sense of this.
It obviously costs something to implement. What is
the expected (long-term?) payback? Do they expect to
eventually allow people to READ their mail BEFORE it
is delivered? Simply knowing that <something> is
on its way doesn't really seem to be much in terms
of added value...
I'm trying to figure out the business sense of this.
It obviously costs something to implement. What is
the expected (long-term?) payback? Do they expect to
eventually allow people to READ their mail BEFORE it
is delivered? Simply knowing that <something> is
on its way doesn't really seem to be much in terms
of added value...
On 20/11/2024 01:07, Don Y wrote:
I'm trying to figure out the business sense of this.
It obviously costs something to implement. What is
the expected (long-term?) payback? Do they expect to
eventually allow people to READ their mail BEFORE it
is delivered? Simply knowing that <something> is
on its way doesn't really seem to be much in terms
of added value...
I'm surprised that they don't offer it already. Typically used for
serving legal documents or ship smaller valuable items in the UK. It is marginally cheaper than most proper couriers.
I'm trying to figure out the business sense of this.
It obviously costs something to implement. What is
the expected (long-term?) payback? Do they expect to
eventually allow people to READ their mail BEFORE it
is delivered? Simply knowing that <something> is
on its way doesn't really seem to be much in terms
of added value...
The informed mail sure comes in hand to a friend of mine. Almost every
week he has to chase down his mail. There are some similar road names
in the county .
About once a month my dad got some mail delivered to him that should go
aout 10 miles away. He lived on White Farm road and the other was just White road.
Similar to the tracking of packages. I did order one time about $ 100
worth of food from Walmart and it never got delivered to me. I like the
way some package services take a picture of where they left the package.
I thought they had left one at the wrong place form the picture but it
was taken sideways.
On 20/11/2024 01:07, Don Y wrote:
I'm trying to figure out the business sense of this.
It obviously costs something to implement. What is
the expected (long-term?) payback? Do they expect to
eventually allow people to READ their mail BEFORE it
is delivered? Simply knowing that <something> is
on its way doesn't really seem to be much in terms
of added value...
I'm surprised that they don't offer it already. Typically used for serving legal documents or ship smaller valuable items in the UK. It is marginally cheaper than most proper couriers.
Most normal UK stamps now have unique potentially traceable QR style codes on them. The forged ones do too (it was supposed to prevent that).
They charge a premium price for signed for and tracked postal services. It is about the only thing they make money on now. You can see where the your parcel
is sat rotting away due to their incompetence.
UK PO have priced themselves out of the market for letter post with most people
and businesses using email instead. Virtual eCards at Xmas.
The only reason I have surface mail delivered is for utility bills and council
tax to be able to prove who I am at banks (trivial to forge). UK doesn't have any coherent proof of ID system - it is a monumental joke.
On 11/20/2024 8:04 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
The informed mail sure comes in hand to a friend of mine. Almost every
week he has to chase down his mail. There are some similar road names
in the county .
About once a month my dad got some mail delivered to him that should go
aout 10 miles away. He lived on White Farm road and the other was just
White road.
LOL. So, they should offer a service to PROVE that they screwed up?
I can't see how taking on an extra cost -- for a FREE SERVICE -- helps
an agency that is already losing money. It has to be (IMO) a foot
in the door to get access to electronic document transfer (mail).
On 2024-11-20, Don Y wrote:
On 11/20/2024 8:04 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
The informed mail sure comes in hand to a friend of mine. Almost every
week he has to chase down his mail. There are some similar road names
in the county .
About once a month my dad got some mail delivered to him that should go
aout 10 miles away. He lived on White Farm road and the other was just >>> White road.
LOL. So, they should offer a service to PROVE that they screwed up?
I can't see how taking on an extra cost -- for a FREE SERVICE -- helps
an agency that is already losing money. It has to be (IMO) a foot
in the door to get access to electronic document transfer (mail).
The extra cost of ... what, exactly? A database row to send an email containing pictures that their automated processing system is already
taking every day?
I think most mail is photographed as part of the address scanning
and routing process. Humans don't do the sorting.
On 11/19/2024 9:18 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 19 Nov 2024 18:07:51 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
I'm trying to figure out the business sense of this.
It obviously costs something to implement. What is
the expected (long-term?) payback? Do they expect to
eventually allow people to READ their mail BEFORE it
is delivered? Simply knowing that <something> is
on its way doesn't really seem to be much in terms
of added value...
Informed Delivery
<https://www.usps.com/manage/informed-delivery.htm>
Informed Delivery can act as proof of delivery in case the mail or
package is stolen.
Can it similarly be used as evidence of process service?
Unfortunately, the service costs me $216/year. My rural mailbox is
located at an inconvenient distance from my house because the letter
carrier will not deliver on my marginal owner maintained dirt road
(even though UPS, FedEx and others do deliver).
But, is the POBox really any closer?
How does USPS expect The Masses the *want* this? "Oh, my VISA
bill is on its way! I can hardly wait!"
There are "boxes" that can be rented from non-USPS providers. You
get an address like:
John Doe
<address of facility>
Suite <box number>
<city> <state> <ZIP>
These have some advantages:
- pricing
- no rule that the owner of the box be disclosed (as with USPS)
- packages accepted (because the sender doesn't know it's a "box")
- *possibly* better hours (though the boxes at our PO are open 24/7)
- if you develop a rapport with the operator, they can accept
and store perishable items for you
They also can give the illusion that you have a "real business" and
not just a "POBox" somewhere.
[A friend gave me his business card. I noticed the address was just
a mile or so from my home and decided to drop in to see him one day. >Surprising to see that it was just one of these retail outlets
renting a (shoebox sized) "suite" to him!
On Tue, 19 Nov 2024 21:57:47 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
I think most mail is photographed as part of the address scanning
and routing process. Humans don't do the sorting.
The USPS does not open a letter or package and photograph the
contents.
The photo I receive from Informed Delivery is just the
package shipping label or the front of the envelope. Most of the
photos are B&W while magazines are in color.
Note that Informed Delivery is also available for businesses: <https://www.usps.com/business/informed-delivery.htm>
I found this document that describes how Informed Delivery might be beneficial to both the sender and recipient for an "interactive mail campaign". <https://www.usps.com/business/pdf/informed-delivery-interactive-campaign-guide.pdf>
I skimmed the above PDF. I don't understand it and don't want to read
it. It might be of interest to a junk mail service.
Informed Delivery can act as proof of delivery in case the mail or
package is stolen.
Can it similarly be used as evidence of process service?
No. The process server has to identify the recipient and then hand
them the subpoena or whatever.
There are "boxes" that can be rented from non-USPS providers. You
get an address like:
John Doe
<address of facility>
Suite <box number>
<city> <state> <ZIP>
These have some advantages:
- pricing
- no rule that the owner of the box be disclosed (as with USPS)
- packages accepted (because the sender doesn't know it's a "box")
- *possibly* better hours (though the boxes at our PO are open 24/7)
- if you develop a rapport with the operator, they can accept
and store perishable items for you
They also can give the illusion that you have a "real business" and
not just a "POBox" somewhere.
[A friend gave me his business card. I noticed the address was just
a mile or so from my home and decided to drop in to see him one day.
Surprising to see that it was just one of these retail outlets
renting a (shoebox sized) "suite" to him!
The nearest such mailbox service is 6.9 miles away in Scotts Valley.
The next nearest is about 10 miles away in Santa Cruz (city).
I appreciate you taking the time to pass judgment on my business
practices. However, I was under the impression that you asked the
question related to your business activities, not mine. What I
provided is an example of what you might do with the service. You
didn't ask about other options, so I didn't provide any.
On 11/20/2024 10:45 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 19 Nov 2024 21:57:47 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
I think most mail is photographed as part of the address scanning
and routing process. Humans don't do the sorting.
The USPS does not open a letter or package and photograph the
contents.
That wasn't what the above states.
Clearly, the "address" that is
scanned is on the outside of the package/envelope. "something" has to image >the address label in order to identify, at the very least, the destination >ZIP code to route the item to the next step in the process.
As the location of the address on the item is not standardized,
it makes sense that the entire object would be imaged in order to
locate the information of interest.
The photo I receive from Informed Delivery is just the
package shipping label or the front of the envelope. Most of the
photos are B&W while magazines are in color.
Note that Informed Delivery is also available for businesses:
<https://www.usps.com/business/informed-delivery.htm>
I found this document that describes how Informed Delivery might be
beneficial to both the sender and recipient for an "interactive mail
campaign".
<https://www.usps.com/business/pdf/informed-delivery-interactive-campaign-guide.pdf>
I skimmed the above PDF. I don't understand it and don't want to read
it. It might be of interest to a junk mail service.
On Wed, 20 Nov 2024 23:23:29 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 11/20/2024 10:45 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 19 Nov 2024 21:57:47 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
I think most mail is photographed as part of the address scanning
and routing process. Humans don't do the sorting.
The USPS does not open a letter or package and photograph the
contents.
That wasn't what the above states.
Please re-read what I wrote:
"The USPS does *NOT* open a letter or package and photograph the
contents".
Clearly, the "address" that is
scanned is on the outside of the package/envelope. "something" has to image >> the address label in order to identify, at the very least, the destination >> ZIP code to route the item to the next step in the process.
Yes. It's the tracking number that the USPS stamps on every 1st class
mail and package. I'm not sure but I don't think they offer tracking services to bulk mail users. The codes and labels have changed over
the years:
"USPS eliminating legacy codes, revising forms" <https://news.usps.com/2023/01/17/service-update-3/>
With the tracking number, the USPS can identify the source and
destination without having to open the envelope or package.
Note that the intelligent mail barcode does not include the
destination address, which is on a different label. <https://www.tension.com/blogs/how-read-intelligent-mail-barcode-imb/>
As the location of the address on the item is not standardized,
it makes sense that the entire object would be imaged in order to
locate the information of interest.
The automatic mail sorters can read (using OCR) an amazing variety of scribbled and illegible addresses. For the few addresses that can't
be read, a photo of the illegible address on the letter or package is
sent to a remote encoding center, where real live humans perform the functions of the reading the address and printing a readable bar code
on the package. I'm not sure what happens if an address can't be
found. I suspect there may be some special handling involved that
doesn't involved opening the package or photographing all 6 sides of
the box.
According to:
<https://facts.usps.com/systems-at-work/>
the USPS has 8,500 mail processing machines of various flavors.
Presumably, bar code readers and printers, to determine the routing,
are involved with every mail sorting machine.
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