• clamper

    From john larkin@21:1/5 to All on Mon Nov 4 16:02:24 2024
    I want a small cheap voltage clamper device. I'd like under 2 volts
    drop at 1 mA, but minimal current at a few hundred millivolts.

    I tried two small diodes in series, but that's terrible. Better is a logic-level mosfet with gate connected to drain. It clamps nicely at
    1.5 volts or so but conducts picoamps at a few hundred mV, over 1000:1
    better than the diodes.

    This will go between the force and sense leads of a 4-wire temperature
    sensor thing so it automatically works in 2-wire or 4-wire mode.

    The alternative is to use two SSRs and let the user explicitely
    declare 2-w or 4-w mode.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to john larkin on Tue Nov 5 00:48:17 2024
    john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote:
    I want a small cheap voltage clamper device. I'd like under 2 volts
    drop at 1 mA, but minimal current at a few hundred millivolts.

    I tried two small diodes in series, but that's terrible. Better is a logic-level mosfet with gate connected to drain. It clamps nicely at
    1.5 volts or so but conducts picoamps at a few hundred mV, over 1000:1
    better than the diodes.

    This will go between the force and sense leads of a 4-wire temperature
    sensor thing so it automatically works in 2-wire or 4-wire mode.

    The alternative is to use two SSRs and let the user explicitely
    declare 2-w or 4-w mode.




    A red LED. I’ve measured some which leaked less than 50 fA at 20 C, from
    -5 to +0.5 V.

    I used them as switches for a pyroelectric array, with bias current
    supplied by illuminating them faintly under processor control.

    They were cheap CML parts in early transfer- molded board (TMB) SMT
    packages, and are now discontinued.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical. on Mon Nov 4 18:30:11 2024
    On Tue, 5 Nov 2024 00:48:17 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote:
    I want a small cheap voltage clamper device. I'd like under 2 volts
    drop at 1 mA, but minimal current at a few hundred millivolts.

    I tried two small diodes in series, but that's terrible. Better is a
    logic-level mosfet with gate connected to drain. It clamps nicely at
    1.5 volts or so but conducts picoamps at a few hundred mV, over 1000:1
    better than the diodes.

    This will go between the force and sense leads of a 4-wire temperature
    sensor thing so it automatically works in 2-wire or 4-wire mode.

    The alternative is to use two SSRs and let the user explicitely
    declare 2-w or 4-w mode.




    A red LED. I’ve measured some which leaked less than 50 fA at 20 C, from
    -5 to +0.5 V.

    I used them as switches for a pyroelectric array, with bias current
    supplied by illuminating them faintly under processor control.

    They were cheap CML parts in early transfer- molded board (TMB) SMT
    packages, and are now discontinued.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    That's an idea. Maybe use the two LEDs inside a dual optocoupler. They
    are always in the dark.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chris Jones@21:1/5 to john larkin on Wed Nov 6 00:32:48 2024
    On 5/11/2024 11:02 am, john larkin wrote:
    I want a small cheap voltage clamper device. I'd like under 2 volts
    drop at 1 mA, but minimal current at a few hundred millivolts.

    I tried two small diodes in series, but that's terrible. Better is a logic-level mosfet with gate connected to drain. It clamps nicely at
    1.5 volts or so but conducts picoamps at a few hundred mV, over 1000:1
    better than the diodes.

    This will go between the force and sense leads of a 4-wire temperature
    sensor thing so it automatically works in 2-wire or 4-wire mode.

    The alternative is to use two SSRs and let the user explicitely
    declare 2-w or 4-w mode.




    Use two diodes in series, with the junction between the diodes actively
    driven by an op-amp follower to be the same voltage as the low-leakage
    node. The op-amp can be a low bias current type, like LMC662 etc.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund@21:1/5 to john larkin on Tue Nov 5 14:37:37 2024
    On 05-11-2024 01:02, john larkin wrote:
    I want a small cheap voltage clamper device. I'd like under 2 volts
    drop at 1 mA, but minimal current at a few hundred millivolts.

    I tried two small diodes in series, but that's terrible. Better is a logic-level mosfet with gate connected to drain. It clamps nicely at
    1.5 volts or so but conducts picoamps at a few hundred mV, over 1000:1
    better than the diodes.

    This will go between the force and sense leads of a 4-wire temperature
    sensor thing so it automatically works in 2-wire or 4-wire mode.

    The alternative is to use two SSRs and let the user explicitely
    declare 2-w or 4-w mode.


    TL431, or active opamp clamp

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com on Tue Nov 5 06:23:40 2024
    On Wed, 6 Nov 2024 00:32:48 +1100, Chris Jones
    <lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com> wrote:

    On 5/11/2024 11:02 am, john larkin wrote:
    I want a small cheap voltage clamper device. I'd like under 2 volts
    drop at 1 mA, but minimal current at a few hundred millivolts.

    I tried two small diodes in series, but that's terrible. Better is a
    logic-level mosfet with gate connected to drain. It clamps nicely at
    1.5 volts or so but conducts picoamps at a few hundred mV, over 1000:1
    better than the diodes.

    This will go between the force and sense leads of a 4-wire temperature
    sensor thing so it automatically works in 2-wire or 4-wire mode.

    The alternative is to use two SSRs and let the user explicitely
    declare 2-w or 4-w mode.




    Use two diodes in series, with the junction between the diodes actively >driven by an op-amp follower to be the same voltage as the low-leakage
    node. The op-amp can be a low bias current type, like LMC662 etc.

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/pj7fd43f787urqav1dewc/B450_Front_1.jpg?rlkey=69oh858vsod4efnoes1ya5uql&dl=0

    Seems to me that poking any current into the junction of the upper
    diode pair must make a current source error.

    Maybe I'll just use two isolated switches and let the user select 2w
    or 4w measurement mode. One ACPL227 should work, and I can use that
    somewhere else too.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chris Jones@21:1/5 to john larkin on Wed Nov 6 21:35:38 2024
    On 6/11/2024 1:23 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 6 Nov 2024 00:32:48 +1100, Chris Jones
    <lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com> wrote:

    On 5/11/2024 11:02 am, john larkin wrote:
    I want a small cheap voltage clamper device. I'd like under 2 volts
    drop at 1 mA, but minimal current at a few hundred millivolts.

    I tried two small diodes in series, but that's terrible. Better is a
    logic-level mosfet with gate connected to drain. It clamps nicely at
    1.5 volts or so but conducts picoamps at a few hundred mV, over 1000:1
    better than the diodes.

    This will go between the force and sense leads of a 4-wire temperature
    sensor thing so it automatically works in 2-wire or 4-wire mode.

    The alternative is to use two SSRs and let the user explicitely
    declare 2-w or 4-w mode.




    Use two diodes in series, with the junction between the diodes actively
    driven by an op-amp follower to be the same voltage as the low-leakage
    node. The op-amp can be a low bias current type, like LMC662 etc.

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/pj7fd43f787urqav1dewc/B450_Front_1.jpg?rlkey=69oh858vsod4efnoes1ya5uql&dl=0

    Seems to me that poking any current into the junction of the upper
    diode pair must make a current source error.

    Maybe I'll just use two isolated switches and let the user select 2w
    or 4w measurement mode. One ACPL227 should work, and I can use that
    somewhere else too.




    You didn't tell me that *both* ends of your clamp needed to have low
    leakage.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From LM@21:1/5 to All on Fri Nov 8 00:31:05 2024
    On Mon, 04 Nov 2024 16:02:24 -0800, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
    wrote:

    I want a small cheap voltage clamper device. I'd like under 2 volts
    drop at 1 mA, but minimal current at a few hundred millivolts.

    I tried two small diodes in series, but that's terrible. Better is a >logic-level mosfet with gate connected to drain. It clamps nicely at
    1.5 volts or so but conducts picoamps at a few hundred mV, over 1000:1
    better than the diodes.

    This will go between the force and sense leads of a 4-wire temperature
    sensor thing so it automatically works in 2-wire or 4-wire mode.

    The alternative is to use two SSRs and let the user explicitely
    declare 2-w or 4-w mode.

    Something like this?
    Opamps work well as voltage clamps. But your input voltage must
    suit for the amp.

    Version 4
    SHEET 1 880 680
    WIRE 16 -64 -80 -64
    WIRE 208 -64 16 -64
    WIRE 208 48 208 -64
    WIRE 272 48 208 48
    WIRE 272 64 272 48
    WIRE 624 64 272 64
    WIRE 368 128 96 128
    WIRE 528 128 368 128
    WIRE 368 144 368 128
    WIRE 96 176 96 128
    WIRE -288 192 -288 160
    WIRE -192 192 -288 192
    WIRE -80 192 -80 -64
    WIRE -80 192 -112 192
    WIRE 16 192 16 -64
    WIRE 64 192 16 192
    WIRE 208 208 128 208
    WIRE 272 208 272 64
    WIRE 320 208 272 208
    WIRE -288 224 -288 192
    WIRE 64 224 32 224
    WIRE 32 288 32 224
    WIRE 32 288 0 288
    WIRE 320 304 320 288
    WIRE 320 304 240 304
    WIRE 32 320 32 288
    WIRE 320 336 320 304
    WIRE -288 352 -288 304
    WIRE 240 352 240 304
    WIRE 240 352 64 352
    WIRE 240 368 240 352
    WIRE 0 384 0 288
    WIRE 624 416 624 64
    WIRE 624 416 448 416
    WIRE 672 416 624 416
    WIRE 528 448 528 128
    WIRE 96 464 96 240
    WIRE 240 464 240 448
    WIRE 240 464 96 464
    WIRE 448 464 448 416
    WIRE 496 464 448 464
    WIRE 592 480 560 480
    WIRE 672 480 672 416
    WIRE 672 480 656 480
    WIRE 736 480 672 480
    WIRE 496 496 448 496
    WIRE 0 528 0 464
    WIRE 64 528 64 352
    WIRE 64 528 0 528
    WIRE 96 528 96 464
    WIRE 240 528 240 464
    WIRE 528 528 528 512
    WIRE 528 528 240 528
    WIRE 448 544 448 496
    WIRE 736 624 736 560
    WIRE 736 624 448 624
    WIRE 448 656 448 624
    FLAG 368 224 0
    FLAG -288 352 0
    FLAG 320 336 0
    FLAG 448 656 0
    SYMBOL voltage 368 128 R0
    WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2
    WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName V1
    SYMATTR Value 15
    SYMBOL Opamps\\LM324-national 96 144 R0
    WINDOW 3 -36 131 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName U1
    SYMBOL voltage -288 208 R0
    WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2
    WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName V3
    SYMATTR Value SINE(0 8 100)
    SYMBOL voltage 240 352 R0
    WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2
    WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName V2
    SYMATTR Value 15
    SYMBOL diode 272 192 R90
    WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
    WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
    SYMATTR InstName D2
    SYMBOL res -96 176 R90
    WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
    WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
    SYMATTR InstName R3
    SYMATTR Value 10k
    SYMBOL voltage 0 368 R0
    WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2
    WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName V4
    SYMATTR Value 3.3
    SYMBOL Opamps\\LM324-national 528 416 R0
    WINDOW 3 -36 131 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName U2
    SYMBOL diode 592 496 R270
    WINDOW 0 32 32 VTop 2
    WINDOW 3 0 32 VBottom 2
    SYMATTR InstName D1
    SYMBOL voltage 448 640 R180
    WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2
    WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName V5
    SYMATTR Value 0
    SYMBOL res 720 464 R0
    SYMATTR InstName R2
    SYMATTR Value 100K
    TEXT -168 504 Left 2 !.tran 100m

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com on Thu Nov 7 20:21:55 2024
    On Wed, 6 Nov 2024 21:35:38 +1100, Chris Jones
    <lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com> wrote:

    On 6/11/2024 1:23 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 6 Nov 2024 00:32:48 +1100, Chris Jones
    <lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com> wrote:

    On 5/11/2024 11:02 am, john larkin wrote:
    I want a small cheap voltage clamper device. I'd like under 2 volts
    drop at 1 mA, but minimal current at a few hundred millivolts.

    I tried two small diodes in series, but that's terrible. Better is a
    logic-level mosfet with gate connected to drain. It clamps nicely at
    1.5 volts or so but conducts picoamps at a few hundred mV, over 1000:1 >>>> better than the diodes.

    This will go between the force and sense leads of a 4-wire temperature >>>> sensor thing so it automatically works in 2-wire or 4-wire mode.

    The alternative is to use two SSRs and let the user explicitely
    declare 2-w or 4-w mode.




    Use two diodes in series, with the junction between the diodes actively
    driven by an op-amp follower to be the same voltage as the low-leakage
    node. The op-amp can be a low bias current type, like LMC662 etc.

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/pj7fd43f787urqav1dewc/B450_Front_1.jpg?rlkey=69oh858vsod4efnoes1ya5uql&dl=0

    Seems to me that poking any current into the junction of the upper
    diode pair must make a current source error.

    Maybe I'll just use two isolated switches and let the user select 2w
    or 4w measurement mode. One ACPL227 should work, and I can use that
    somewhere else too.




    You didn't tell me that *both* ends of your clamp needed to have low
    leakage.

    I did explain the function, automatic 2-wire or 4-wire measurements.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)